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View Full Version : 545i slower then 540i!


fm_illuminatus
06-22-2005, 06:44 PM
What's this all about??

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?makeID=3&carID=8437&optionID=6

Now look here...

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=2502&optionID=0

Someone want to explain the 0-60 time difference? The 540i is 5.5 and the 545i is 5.7! The torque numbers are nearly the same, the 545i weighs about the same, and has more horsepower. Why is it slower? (I mean it's not much difference, but one would think the 545i would be a good half second faster than the 540i)

Niftster
06-22-2005, 06:53 PM
When it gets down to that, I say big deal. People can't tell the difference. It could have been the test driver, air temp, tire pressure, whatever.

I remember in the 80s, anything quicker than 7 sec in the 0-60 was fast. Now a lot of cars are floating around 7.

I measure I would like to see recorded more of would be 30 - 60, or 50 - 100. With many of these cars, thats where you figure out where the real power is.

fm_illuminatus
06-22-2005, 07:04 PM
That's true, my 325xi has a disappointing 0-60 time (7.8 seconds) but it still manages to have good passing speed on the freeway. It would be interesting to see what it gets in the 30-60 and the 50-100 range.

qamaro
06-22-2005, 07:35 PM
I guess it depends on where you look for the data. The numbers are all over the place for both cars. Here is a review of the 2004 545i (auto I think) against an STS in MotorTrend and their test data shows a different set of #'s (note the 545i 0-60 time of 5.4). So, not sure how much stock you place in some of the sites facts over another. :confused:

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0408_bmwsts/index7.html

TGray5
06-22-2005, 08:13 PM
That's an awfully optimistic number for the 540 and a relatively pessimistic number for the 545.

kd2789mo
06-22-2005, 09:12 PM
0-60 my C5 is about a 1/2 car length ahead of my 545 (both auto)
50-100 the 545 is almost 2 full car lengths ahead of the C5.

Niftster
06-22-2005, 09:32 PM
Thinking again about it, one car may have had a full tank, the other a few gallons.

530iii
06-22-2005, 11:06 PM
0-60 my C5 is about a 1/2 car length ahead of my 545 (both auto)
50-100 the 545 is almost 2 full car lengths ahead of the C5.




You've got a 545i and a C5 Vette? Who's better than you? :bigpimp:


Well here's what the latest Car & Driver said about the new Toyota Avalon "street start" of 6.2 seconds the 545i 6spd manual "street start" of 6.0 seconds.


I don't think so..... these magazines gotta be inexact sometimes! :gay: :snooze: :fruit:

fm_illuminatus
06-22-2005, 11:20 PM
I guess it depends on where you look for the data. The numbers are all over the place for both cars. Here is a review of the 2004 545i (auto I think) against an STS in MotorTrend and their test data shows a different set of #'s (note the 545i 0-60 time of 5.4). So, not sure how much stock you place in some of the sites facts over another. :confused:

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0408_bmwsts/index7.html

That's an awfully optimistic number for the 540 and a relatively pessimistic number for the 545.

I figured something like that might be the issue. I guess that the numbers just aren't all that accurate across the board, everyone seems to have something different.

fm_illuminatus
06-22-2005, 11:23 PM
You've got a 545i and a C5 Vette? Who's better than you? :bigpimp:


Well here's what the latest Car & Driver said about the new Toyota Avalon "street start" of 6.2 seconds the 545i 6spd manual "street start" of 6.0 seconds.


I don't think so..... these magazines gotta be inexact sometimes! :gay: :snooze: :fruit:

6 seconds?? what are they smoking? That's way too high. I'm sure the real story falls somewhere between 5.4 and 5.7

1Dreamer
06-22-2005, 11:54 PM
Here's an interesting link that provides the 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times of a zillion stock cars ranging back from the 60's and 70's up to the early 2000's taken from different sources including Car & Driver, Motor Trend. The 545 isn't listed but different year 540's are and you will notice how much the tested times can range from year to year. http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

1997 BMW 540i 6.2
1998 BMW 540i Sport 5.5
2001 BMW 540i (Automatic) 5.7
2001 BMW 540i 6-Speed 5.5

I find it hard to believe a stock automatic ever tested at 5.7 though, so I don't take much stock in these numbers. The numbers I've always consistently seen (and sound more realistic) for the 540 are 5.8 for the stick and 6.1 for the auto.

dinan540i
07-14-2005, 10:35 PM
Here's an interesting link that provides the 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times of a zillion stock cars ranging back from the 60's and 70's up to the early 2000's taken from different sources including Car & Driver, Motor Trend. The 545 isn't listed but different year 540's are and you will notice how much the tested times can range from year to year. http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

1997 BMW 540i 6.2
1998 BMW 540i Sport 5.5
2001 BMW 540i (Automatic) 5.7
2001 BMW 540i 6-Speed 5.5

I find it hard to believe a stock automatic ever tested at 5.7 though, so I don't take much stock in these numbers. The numbers I've always consistently seen (and sound more realistic) for the 540 are 5.8 for the stick and 6.1 for the auto.


i have gotten consistent 5.7 with my 540 (steptronic.) and that was before my dinan mods

philippek
07-14-2005, 10:58 PM
When it gets down to that, I say big deal. People can't tell the difference. It could have been the test driver, air temp, tire pressure, whatever.

I remember in the 80s, anything quicker than 7 sec in the 0-60 was fast. Now a lot of cars are floating around 7.

I measure I would like to see recorded more of would be 30 - 60, or 50 - 100. With many of these cars, thats where you figure out where the real power is.

I think that about nails it. 0-60 is a nice shorthand way of expressing power to people who really aren't car people. It only really matters to street racers.

The minor variations from driver to driver, day to day and road surface to road surface will be much more significant than the .1 or .2 sec which separates 0-60 times.

hpowders
07-15-2005, 06:07 AM
Exactly. Somone asked me whether he should get the 545i or wait for the 550.
I told him go with the 545i. For most people the difference in power at this level is relatively irrelevant.

530iii
07-15-2005, 05:16 PM
Personally i would wait until a 2007 (9/2006 production 550i : engine is out since the 04 X5 4.8is but 1st model year in the E60) but that's just me. :drive:

Vitamin H certainly wouldn't hurt.

kip
07-20-2005, 01:48 AM
Car and driver got these results:

545i 0-60 5.2
540i 0-60 5.5

These are actual results. The 545i is faster. Also the1/4 mile was faster.

SergeyM
07-20-2005, 09:17 PM
Car and driver got these results:

545i 0-60 5.2
540i 0-60 5.5

These are actual results. The 545i is faster. Also the1/4 mile was faster.


You forgot to mention that 5.5 was for 540 i/6 whereas 5.2 is for 545 auto.

The best numbers for auto vs. auto would be

540 0-60 5.7, 1/4 mile 14.3/97mph
545 0-60 5.2, 1/4 mile 13.7/104 mph

As a former owner of 2002 540ia Sport and a current owner of 2005 545ia Sport I feel that 545 feels significantly faster in daily driving.

530iii
07-21-2005, 02:07 PM
Oh my goodness, does that mean a 550i possibly could be 0 to 60mph in 4.8 seconds or 5.0 seconds flat? :tsk: :str8pimpi

bimmer7
07-24-2005, 04:03 PM
What's this all about??

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?makeID=3&carID=8437&optionID=6

Now look here...

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=2502&optionID=0

Someone want to explain the 0-60 time difference? The 540i is 5.5 and the 545i is 5.7! The torque numbers are nearly the same, the 545i weighs about the same, and has more horsepower. Why is it slower? (I mean it's not much difference, but one would think the 545i would be a good half second faster than the 540i)

fm_illuminatus, thats so true the 0-60mph figures on the websites mentioned above are infact way-off I mean a 545i definitely is faster then a 540i but with Dinan mods the 540i will be faster as mentioned by someone else in the replies. However just to show as an example for the inaccuracy of the conceptcarz websites....the 750iL is shown as having a top speed of 206km/h / 128mph...........WHICH IS BULL****! I have taken mine many times over 210km/h....with effortless acceleration....and the top speed I have taken it was against a couple of bikes around 240km/h! :D .....and the 0-60mph time is not 6.5 seconds.....its closer to 6.0-6.2 seconds.......I mean I know it isnt a big difference but however this website conceptcarz.com is definitely not posting car specs and figures accurately. ...... :thumbdwn:

530iii
07-24-2005, 04:18 PM
Yes and a 545i with future Dinan mods will be quicker than a standard 545i. :angel:

AndrewL
07-24-2005, 06:56 PM
You forgot to mention that 5.5 was for 540 i/6 whereas 5.2 is for 545 auto.

The best numbers for auto vs. auto would be

540 0-60 5.7, 1/4 mile 14.3/97mph
545 0-60 5.2, 1/4 mile 13.7/104 mph

As a former owner of 2002 540ia Sport and a current owner of 2005 545ia Sport I feel that 545 feels significantly faster in daily driving.


I would be willing to bet that in a real "street" situation, you realy can't tell the difference! Especially if you are on the freeway with a limited amount of passing distance that if a 540i doesn't want to be passed by a 545i that it can be made to make it happen. These numbers are irrevelant imo as much as how you like the "feel" of the two cars.

If a professional driver is in a 540i and an average person is in a 545i, I will be willing to bet that pro with the 540i will beat the average 545i driver.

BillP
07-24-2005, 11:05 PM
I would be willing to bet that in a real "street" situation, you realy can't tell the difference! Especially if you are on the freeway with a limited amount of passing distance that if a 540i doesn't want to be passed by a 545i that it can be made to make it happen. These numbers are irrevelant imo as much as how you like the "feel" of the two cars.

If a professional driver is in a 540i and an average person is in a 545i, I will be willing to bet that pro with the 540i will beat the average 545i driver.

Huh?

Pro driver: Push pedal to the metal.
Average driver: Push pedal to the metal.

The numbers were for automatics and we are talking straight-line performance. In that sitaution, the pro is no better than my mom.

Plus, we are talking 0-60 which is not applicable to your freeway example. That would be another metric altogether, something like 50-80 or 60-100.

Now, if you are talking slalom or a road course, then I agree 100% with your premise that a lesser car in the hands of a professional would kick the snot out of a superior car in the hands of an average driver.


Bill

BillP
07-24-2005, 11:09 PM
fm_illuminatus, thats so true the 0-60mph figures on the websites mentioned above are infact way-off I mean a 545i definitely is faster then a 540i but with Dinan mods the 540i will be faster as mentioned by someone else in the replies. However just to show as an example for the inaccuracy of the conceptcarz websites....the 750iL is shown as having a top speed of 206km/h / 128mph...........WHICH IS BULL****! I have taken mine many times over 210km/h....with effortless acceleration....and the top speed I have taken it was against a couple of bikes around 240km/h! :D .....and the 0-60mph time is not 6.5 seconds.....its closer to 6.0-6.2 seconds.......I mean I know it isnt a big difference but however this website conceptcarz.com is definitely not posting car specs and figures accurately. ...... :thumbdwn:

How did you know the speed was more than 210kmh, your speedometer? BMW speedos are POS and cannot be trusted unless you have them calibrated. My car at 140mph registered something like 155mph since BMW injects both an absolute (like 5mph) and relative (like 4%) buffer so your speedometer will intentionally overstate your actual speed.

Similarly, when your speedo said 60mph, you were probably only going 55 which explains your perceived better 0-60 time.


Bill

bimmer7
07-25-2005, 08:46 AM
Hey Bill,
Listen thats the first ever time Ive heard that. . . :dunno: :dunno: I mean speedometers become inaccurate and need to be recalibrated when they are tampered with or if they get broken or something. . . :eek:
I dont know if thats right about the speed being understated then what it actually says on the speedometer. SO in any case that nite I went 240km/h approximately 150mph . . .and the car would go even more but I was already ahead of the bikes and didnt want to go faster then that....so jus slowed down. . .but given a straight course it can go even faster. . .I mean the limiter in my OBC module which can be manually set to give a speed limit warning , goes all the way up to 299km/h or 186mph. . . so given a straight road (AUTOBAHN :D ) I think it can achieve that speed. :bigpimp:
However my point being even at 150mph I still was going 145mph which is faster than 210km/h which therefore proves my point that the website is Bull**** :thumbup:

You have to tell me more about this speedometer story :confused: and POS???? Maybe this is true for US models but not Canadian Models because I dont even think my 750 has a limiter....or maybe it does :rolleyes:

AndrewL
07-25-2005, 09:33 AM
Huh?

Pro driver: Push pedal to the metal.
Average driver: Push pedal to the metal.

The numbers were for automatics and we are talking straight-line performance. In that sitaution, the pro is no better than my mom.

Plus, we are talking 0-60 which is not applicable to your freeway example. That would be another metric altogether, something like 50-80 or 60-100.

Now, if you are talking slalom or a road course, then I agree 100% with your premise that a lesser car in the hands of a professional would kick the snot out of a superior car in the hands of an average driver.


Bill

I may be wrong but I have done some drag racing in the past in both cars and motorcycles. I've built over 15 Suzuki GSXRs where 5 of them was for drag racing and a couple of Rotary Powered vehicles where one was for drag racing, VW beetle for drag, and a 1967 Chevy Malibu with a 383 motor for drag. Launching very well is a key to get good acceleration times. Just pushing the pedal to the metal sometimes don't just cut it. In case of automatics, you need to ramp up to its stall speed and find the right rpm range for shifting.

When magazines do these test, they do several variations until the best results are established. Often, they will not tell us how they can get the car to shave of a 1/10th of a sec or two.

Professional drivers in general have higher reflex factor than normal drivers.

I could be wrong with BMWs being a more special vehicle where just mashing the pedal will give you the advertised figures that the magazines posted, but in general, most of the figures I see will be slightly slower with an average driver.

Driving the ultimate driving machine doesn't make it defacto that we become ultimate drivers.

BillP
07-25-2005, 10:46 AM
I may be wrong but I have done some drag racing in the past in both cars and motorcycles ... Launching very well is a key to get good acceleration times. Just pushing the pedal to the metal sometimes don't just cut it. In case of automatics, you need to ramp up to its stall speed and find the right rpm range for shifting.

I acknowledge that your skills and experience are greater than my own and I am not arguing with the facts you cite, only their relevance in the situation we are discussing (or perhaps we aren't discussing the same situation?) Launching from a start and hitting the gas at freeway speeds are two different beasts.

I still maintain that my mother mashing the pedal at 50+ and you mashing the pedal (or even playing with the autos gears a bit) at the same speed where your car is suffering from a ~10% power shortfall will result in dear old mom winning.

Maybe we could set up a race. I'll ask my mom tonight. She's been doing a lot of short-track recently so I'm sure she'd be up for a quick contest - how much money will you be bringing?

;-)


Bill

BillP
07-25-2005, 10:48 AM
Hey Bill,
Listen thats the first ever time Ive heard that. . . :dunno: :dunno: I mean speedometers become inaccurate and need to be recalibrated when they are tampered with or if they get broken or something. . . :eek:
I dont know if thats right about the speed being understated then what it actually says on the speedometer. SO in any case that nite I went 240km/h approximately 150mph . . .and the car would go even more but I was already ahead of the bikes and didnt want to go faster then that....so jus slowed down. . .but given a straight course it can go even faster. . .I mean the limiter in my OBC module which can be manually set to give a speed limit warning , goes all the way up to 299km/h or 186mph. . . so given a straight road (AUTOBAHN :D ) I think it can achieve that speed. :bigpimp:
However my point being even at 150mph I still was going 145mph which is faster than 210km/h which therefore proves my point that the website is Bull**** :thumbup:

You have to tell me more about this speedometer story :confused: and POS???? Maybe this is true for US models but not Canadian Models because I dont even think my 750 has a limiter....or maybe it does :rolleyes:

Data is per BMW's official documentation (the TIS, believe). I've posted the link here before but can't find it right now. Yes, it is possible that it is only for the lawyer-target-rich US environment and the more reasonable countries like Canada have the inaccuracy removed.


Bill

bimmer7
07-25-2005, 12:14 PM
Data is per BMW's official documentation (the TIS, believe). I've posted the link here before but can't find it right now. Yes, it is possible that it is only for the lawyer-target-rich US environment and the more reasonable countries like Canada have the inaccuracy removed.


Bill

So what do you mean by the inaccuarcy being removed from more reasonable countries like Canada? :dunno:

AndrewL
07-25-2005, 05:21 PM
I acknowledge that your skills and experience are greater than my own and I am not arguing with the facts you cite, only their relevance in the situation we are discussing (or perhaps we aren't discussing the same situation?) Launching from a start and hitting the gas at freeway speeds are two different beasts.

I still maintain that my mother mashing the pedal at 50+ and you mashing the pedal (or even playing with the autos gears a bit) at the same speed where your car is suffering from a ~10% power shortfall will result in dear old mom winning.

Maybe we could set up a race. I'll ask my mom tonight. She's been doing a lot of short-track recently so I'm sure she'd be up for a quick contest - how much money will you be bringing?

;-)


Bill

LOL...Competition!!..hmm...I just got a 530i in May for my Wife as I personally have a x5 v8...honestly thought of the 545i originally until Josh So told me they are coming out with the 550i where the active steering will be an option.

As for drag racing, I still follow up some but when you get older, your interest fades. But I do have a stock 2000 zx9r that I just dynoed at a small 134 rear wheel hp that I'll go heads up with the 540i. I'm pretty confident I can probably do about 135mph at the end of the 1/4 with not much work and if I practice more (and I haven't) can push to about 140mph. :thumbup:

530iii
07-25-2005, 05:43 PM
Come on guys we should be drag racing Infiniti G35's / M45's etc. and M-Benz E500's not each other! :grouphug: :drive:

AndrewL
07-25-2005, 07:53 PM
Come on guys we should be drag racing Infiniti G35's / M45's etc. and M-Benz E500's not each other! :grouphug: :drive:

I think Bill was trying to make a joke. But friendly competition isn't bad...Before I got the 530i I considered the M45...great features imo..but looks didn't strike me especially the rosewood interior.