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stylinexpat
07-25-2005, 12:39 PM
If you wanted a car for fun and looks, which one would you pick? The Vette or an M3?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2489&page_number=2

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2489&page_number=3

jeffreys48
07-25-2005, 01:01 PM
I just went through the same decision although I also had the Porsche Boxster S and the Honda S2000 (just a fun car at 1/2 the price!) the the Audi S4.

I decided on the M3 vert because I wanted to take my small kids with me. They love the car. Its great having 4 seats. I have even traveled in the back seat and while I would not want to go for 2 hour drives in it, it was great for a summer drive.

The M3 is just so much fun. The vette is nice but seemed less refined. Hard to describe. Its probably a better sportscar but the M3 vert is the best all around 4-seater that I could find.

AB
07-25-2005, 01:04 PM
I decided on the M3 vert because I wanted to take my small kids with me. They love the car. Its great having 4 seats. I have even traveled in the back seat and while I would not want to go for 2 hour drives in it, it was great for a summer drive.

The M3 is just so much fun. The vette is nice but seemed less refined. Hard to describe. Its probably a better sportscar but the M3 vert is the best all around 4-seater that I could find.

I would take a 'Vette in a heartbeat, but it is the lack of a back-seat that would prevent me, having children as well.

wag-zhp
07-25-2005, 01:21 PM
If I only needed two seats? The Vette, no question!

spta97
07-25-2005, 02:45 PM
Go for the new Z06 - 500 HP!

Seneca
07-25-2005, 08:38 PM
I've driven both the Corvette and the M3 this year, and while the Corvette is fun, the M3 is a better balanced car and has better build quality. That said, the Corvette is a great value for the dollar.

Speaking of value, the most enjoyable car I've driven this year, and one which I would take back for a week over both the Vette and the M3, is the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR.

stylinexpat
07-25-2005, 09:27 PM
I've driven both the Corvette and the M3 this year, and while the Corvette is fun, the M3 is a better balanced car and has better build quality. That said, the Corvette is a great value for the dollar.

Speaking of value, the most enjoyable car I've driven this year, and one which I would take back for a week over both the Vette and the M3, is the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR.


If the car was available here in Taiwan, I would pick the WRX STI or EVO MR because of the weather and road conditions that we have out here are more Rally like then modern. In California one may need a car for fun factor and looks. I have a Supercharged 330, an 03 model. So I have the two back seats. If you had wanted another car for fun and style would you get the Vette?

Seneca
07-25-2005, 10:16 PM
If you had wanted another car for fun and style would you get the Vette?

I would choose an M3 over the Corvette. I was impressed with the performance of the Corvette, but there are things about it that really bothered me - not so much dynamically, but things like the build quality (the drivers door didn't line up with the dash on the inside), the electric doors (which are ridiculous) and the gearbox, which often had a hard time going into 2nd gear. GM also wants to make all the buttons beep when you push them, and that just drove me crazy. The Vette never felt quite as connected to the road as the M3 does, and I even drove the car with the Z51 performance package. I came away with the realization that there's a reason the M3 costs quite a bit more than the Corvette.

EdCT
07-25-2005, 10:24 PM
Between those two, I'd go with a Corvette. Leaving aside the two-seater aspect, it's got over 20 cubic feet of cargo space (in hatchback form), has plenty of V8 torque allowing for an automatic (gasp, I know), rides well around town and is a real sports car, not a modified E46- sourced sedan.

As mentioned by one of the posters, though, I'd take an S2000 in a heartbeat, it's way less expensive, yet runs with the 'big boys", the vettes, the boxters, the Z4's etc.

Ed

Dr Greco
07-25-2005, 10:57 PM
How tall are you? You might fit better in an M3 rather than in a Vette. I had the same dilemma, and I chose the 325 conv. over the vette conv. I could barely squeeze in the vette, and then my buddy told me I looked funny in there, like I was driving a toy-car. I feel much more comfy in the Bimmer conv. although I once got a coupe loaner and my head was touching the moonroof lip.

Now..... you're probably smaller than 6'7",335lbs. I'd say if you're 6'3" or less you'll fit fine in both.

So put the more exotic looks of the Vette on the one side of the scale and the manufacturing quality of the M3 on the other. IMHO that's what it comes down to

hector
07-26-2005, 08:49 AM
I've driven both the Corvette and the M3 this year, and while the Corvette is fun, the M3 is a better balanced car and has better build quality. That said, the Corvette is a great value for the dollar.

Speaking of value, the most enjoyable car I've driven this year, and one which I would take back for a week over both the Vette and the M3, is the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR.

when i look at the vette in profile, with the long hood/short deck and low seating position compared to that in a 3 series, it seems like it would feel like a longer car than it is. i was wondering if it felt at all unwieldy or just plain larger than it's actual footprint since the driver sits so low and rearward?

Seneca
07-26-2005, 09:30 AM
when i look at the vette in profile, with the long hood/short deck and low seating position compared to that in a 3 series, it seems like it would feel like a longer car than it is. i was wondering if it felt at all unwieldy or just plain larger than it's actual footprint since the driver sits so low and rearward?

The Corvette did feel pretty big on the road, and I was surprised how much understeer there was. It's very wide, so it doesn't give you a feeling that you can toss it around. It definitely feels bigger from the inside than it looks from the outside. That said, it becomes a better car when you drive it harder.

toshweir27
07-26-2005, 10:10 AM
C6 Vette

Seneca
07-26-2005, 10:12 AM
C6 Vette

Not sure what that means, but that is the car I was referring to. I just spent a week driving it with the Z51 performance package.

stylinexpat
07-26-2005, 11:46 AM
The main thing that I did not like about the new C6 Vette was that while sitting in either the drivers' side or passengers' side, one could not put the seat back to take a nap on a trip or something. The passenger seat barely goes back. If two people went up to San Francisco or vegas from L.A. and one wanted to take a nap, it would be quite hard to rest in a seat that stays upright. In the M3, one could lay the seat back to get a nice nap :) I really like the looks of the new Vette. Never owned or bought an American car before, but thsi new C6 Vette looked much different from what they turned up before. It's also nice to just step on the gas and go without having to work the engine to redline every time to get the thing to move like in most Japanese cars out there.

stylinexpat
07-26-2005, 11:49 AM
The Corvette did feel pretty big on the road, and I was surprised how much understeer there was. It's very wide, so it doesn't give you a feeling that you can toss it around. It definitely feels bigger from the inside than it looks from the outside. That said, it becomes a better car when you drive it harder.


What did you think of the rear view mirror view sitting the drivers's side? Can you see clearly to the back or will one be getting endless amounts of tickets because the officer is always in a blind-spot or can never be seen? In the Nissan 350Z, rear view is nearly impossible while driving.

toshweir27
07-26-2005, 11:54 AM
Not sure what that means, but that is the car I was referring to. I just spent a week driving it with the Z51 performance package.


It just means that I would pick the C6 Vette over an M3 for the sheer fun of driving. I was just answering the question posted up top.

Seneca
07-26-2005, 12:08 PM
It just means that I would pick the C6 Vette over an M3 for the sheer fun of driving. I was just answering the question posted up top.

Oh, OK - sorry for the confusion. I really enjoyed the C6, but it just didn't feel as planted and as confident in its handling as the M3 (especially the ZCP) on the same roads. I'm supposed to get the Z06 in the fall, so am anxious to see how that compares.

hector
07-26-2005, 12:31 PM
It definitely feels bigger from the inside than it looks from the outside. That said, it becomes a better car when you drive it harder.

no doubt that things do shrink at speed, wasn't that part of relativety theory or something??? anyway, imo the long hood is something of an issue.

KAOSINLA
07-26-2005, 01:43 PM
Well, I have both sitting in my garage right now.....2005 M3 and C6 Z51. For the fun/performance factor, I vote for the C6. I choose to drive this when I'm looking for hardline power, handling, and feel of the road. I choose to drive the M3 when needing more of the space, functionality, and comfort factor while not being reduced to a pig on the road. I find it difficult to compare the two because they are two different animals. On a side note, those road & track numbers are pitifully wrong.

Also, I agree with spta97. The new Z06 is unbelievable. I have a deposit down on one and am hoping for late Aug - early Sept delivery. The Nurburgring lap times on it put the exotics to shame.

Seneca
07-27-2005, 06:55 AM
KAOSINLA, Have you gotten used to the electric doors on the C6 yet? Those things drove me crazy in the week I had the car. Half the time, the passenger couldn't get the door open, and both doors seemed to hesitate for a second before opening, after pusing the button.

dawgbone
07-27-2005, 08:25 AM
I definitely agree with KAOSINLA...It's apples and oranges..
Corvette......500ish HP V8 ...... "Hint" "Hint" BMW
Other than the obvious, by choosing the Z06, I would be loosing out on refinement, like a smooth running engine(even after a hard run), good closing doors, leather that doesn't crack within a year, an alternator that last past a year, no unnecessary road noise levels, cheesy chicken**** interior plastic that creaks and cracks...oh and a warning chime that will never shut up when my keys are in the ignition and/or lights are on..."you cannot program the thing to shut up!!!!" and the discomfort of high speed oversteer...... But the car does good numbers, and even though I have yet to drive the "brand new" Z06...I'll give it, the "Fun Factor" choice...

apart from fun though..A true POS...

stylinexpat
07-27-2005, 11:52 AM
Well, I have both sitting in my garage right now.....2005 M3 and C6 Z51. For the fun/performance factor, I vote for the C6. I choose to drive this when I'm looking for hardline power, handling, and feel of the road. I choose to drive the M3 when needing more of the space, functionality, and comfort factor while not being reduced to a pig on the road. I find it difficult to compare the two because they are two different animals. On a side note, those road & track numbers are pitifully wrong.

Also, I agree with spta97. The new Z06 is unbelievable. I have a deposit down on one and am hoping for late Aug - early Sept delivery. The Nurburgring lap times on it put the exotics to shame.

Which one do you feel is faster? Your Vette a manula or auto, what bout your M3?

KAOSINLA
07-27-2005, 09:18 PM
KAOSINLA, Have you gotten used to the electric doors on the C6 yet? Those things drove me crazy in the week I had the car. Half the time, the passenger couldn't get the door open, and both doors seemed to hesitate for a second before opening, after pusing the button.


Actually, it was harder getting used to not have a key ignition anymore.....The electric doors never gave me any problems.....I have my fob programmed to unlock the doors when reaching the specified distance, but there is a pause before opening when it is verifying the fob.

KAOSINLA
07-27-2005, 09:53 PM
Which one do you feel is faster? Your Vette a manula or auto, what bout your M3?


First, the M3 is an SMG, while the Vette is a 6 spd. No mods on either. In my opinion, the Vette wins hands down in acceleration and handling. My 0-60's are always in the 4.2's. I was able to get a 4.194 once, but think consistent 4.1's won't be a problem accomplishing once I trade out the Goodyead SC RF's. In handling, I have a much higher entrance speed and better exit power while still feeling comfortable steering and g reaction. Mistakes are correctable, but with the M3 the limitations are very noticeable and mistakes aren't easily correctable. Also, I found that the M3 has a considerable climbing lag at 125+, while the C6 is consistent through 170+. The last 16+ are really the only time I've felt the CD, but feel it very early on with the M3. I love my M3, but I consider it a sports coupe, while I consider the C6 a sportscar. It's all a matter of what your looking for.

KAOSINLA
07-27-2005, 10:03 PM
I definitely agree with KAOSINLA...It's apples and oranges..
Corvette......500ish HP V8 ...... "Hint" "Hint" BMW
Other than the obvious, by choosing the Z06, I would be loosing out on refinement, like a smooth running engine(even after a hard run), good closing doors, leather that doesn't crack within a year, an alternator that last past a year, no unnecessary road noise levels, cheesy chicken**** interior plastic that creaks and cracks...oh and a warning chime that will never shut up when my keys are in the ignition and/or lights are on..."you cannot program the thing to shut up!!!!" and the discomfort of high speed oversteer...... But the car does good numbers, and even though I have yet to drive the "brand new" Z06...I'll give it, the "Fun Factor" choice...

apart from fun though..A true POS...

You definitely lose out on refinement with the Corvette, but I've never had cracking of leather or any engine problems. Definitely higher road noise and cheaper plastic dash materials, but I never had a chime with the ignition because it's a push button start ( no keys ) Now, my above post was based on the C6 Z51.....The new Z06 will eclipse anything BMW has to offer.

Here's the newly published Nurburgring lap times....

7:32 - Porsche Carrera GT (7:32.44)
7:43 - 2006 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06
7:44 - Zonda
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 - Porsche Gt3 RS (sport tyres)
7:50 - M3 CSL (sport tyres)
7:52 - GT3 (381hp)
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo
7:52 - Lamborghini Murcielao
7:52 - Mercedes SLR mclaren
7:56 - 2004 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Commemorative Edition Z06
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 - 360 stradale (sport tyres)
7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 HP, racing suspension)
7:59 - 2005 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51
8:07 - Ferrari 550
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS
8:11 - Porsche Cayman
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 HP version)
8:13 - Dodge Viper 505hp SRT-10
8:15 - BMW Z8 400 HP
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2
8:18 - Ferrari F355
8:22 - BMW M Coupe 321 HP
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 HP
8:28 - Porsche 993 C2
8:28 - BMW M5 400 HP
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S
8:35 - BMW M3 Coupe 321 HP
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG
8:38 - Honda NSX
8:39 - Honda S2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette
8:42 - Audi S4 265 HP
8:42 - Lotus Exige
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430

stylinexpat
07-28-2005, 12:27 AM
Wonder why they don't have the numbers for the Regular M3 Coupe, NON CSL Version :dunno:

stylinexpat
07-28-2005, 12:38 AM
First, the M3 is an SMG, while the Vette is a 6 spd. No mods on either. In my opinion, the Vette wins hands down in acceleration and handling. My 0-60's are always in the 4.2's. I was able to get a 4.194 once, but think consistent 4.1's won't be a problem accomplishing once I trade out the Goodyead SC RF's. In handling, I have a much higher entrance speed and better exit power while still feeling comfortable steering and g reaction. Mistakes are correctable, but with the M3 the limitations are very noticeable and mistakes aren't easily correctable. Also, I found that the M3 has a considerable climbing lag at 125+, while the C6 is consistent through 170+. The last 16+ are really the only time I've felt the CD, but feel it very early on with the M3. I love my M3, but I consider it a sports coupe, while I consider the C6 a sportscar. It's all a matter of what your looking for.


I once saw a guy driving on the street here in a pretty new M3. The street was heading off to end in what looks like a " T ". The guy tried to power slide and turn left, he ended up smashing directly into the barrier and wall. I was behind him in my VW R32. I could see that he had a very difficult time trying to correct :rofl: . The guy came out really upset. The whole front end of the car was gone not to mention a good portion of the side. I know I could have taken that turn that he took with another 10-15 MPH on top of that easily in my R32. I felt sorry for him. Was a beautiful looking M3.

Seneca
07-28-2005, 07:15 AM
I know I could have taken that turn that he took with another 10-15 MPH on top of that easily in my R32. I felt sorry for him. Was a beautiful looking M3.

Sounds like the problem was not the M3, but a poor driver.

Seneca
07-28-2005, 09:43 AM
Wonder why they don't have the numbers for the Regular M3 Coupe, NON CSL Version :dunno:

Interesting that the M3 coupe (321hp) which I assume is an E36, was faster than another Corvette by 5-seconds. It's pretty impressive that the CSL is that close to the new Z06.

stylinexpat
07-28-2005, 10:23 AM
I would buy the CSL had it been available in the U.S.

KAOSINLA
07-28-2005, 12:01 PM
Wonder why they don't have the numbers for the Regular M3 Coupe, NON CSL Version :dunno:


These are the track records.....I'm guessing the regular M3 didn't make the list.....Only the CSL with racing tires.

car_for_mom
07-28-2005, 12:13 PM
How tall are you? You might fit better in an M3 rather than in a Vette. I had the same dilemma, and I chose the 325 conv. over the vette conv. I could barely squeeze in the vette, and then my buddy told me I looked funny in there, like I was driving a toy-car. I feel much more comfy in the Bimmer conv. although I once got a coupe loaner and my head was touching the moonroof lip.

Now..... you're probably smaller than 6'7",335lbs. I'd say if you're 6'3" or less you'll fit fine in both.

So put the more exotic looks of the Vette on the one side of the scale and the manufacturing quality of the M3 on the other. IMHO that's what it comes down to



I love both cars, but my legs (I'm 6'1") prefer the M3 :thumbup:

I have a good friend that just traded in his C5 'Vette for a C6; he let me drive both of them, and my legs were not happy in the C6, which is noticeably smaller!

KAOSINLA
07-28-2005, 12:44 PM
These are the track records.....I'm guessing the regular M3 didn't make the list.....Only the CSL with racing tires.


My mistake... it's down the list some.....

bimmerguy
07-28-2005, 05:59 PM
Are those times around the ring all by the same driver, I doubt it. The air temps and weather conditions make a big difference as well.

This horsepower race will have to end at some point, I mean who needs over 400 HP for the street?

KAOSINLA
07-28-2005, 06:36 PM
Are those times around the ring all by the same driver, I doubt it. The air temps and weather conditions make a big difference as well.

This horsepower race will have to end at some point, I mean who needs over 400 HP for the street?

No, those aren't by the same driver (drivers are usually designated per mfr.), but that would be the luckiest person in the world if it was!!! The temps and weather play a vital role in these times, but the mfr decides to stop when satisfied and can return at any point to best the times.

In regards to HP war, yes, eventually, it will peak.....But, street is the key term....Personally, I like to have a street car that I can track too....

stylinexpat
07-29-2005, 07:14 AM
The New Subaru WRX STI which was just released in Japan is supposed to go around the track in Germany in under 8 minutes as well. Some where around 7.52 or so. That is not bad for an untuned car that is stock. That is running with a GT2

Moderato
07-29-2005, 08:59 AM
The New Subaru WRX STI which was just released in Japan is supposed to go around the track in Germany in under 8 minutes as well. Some where around 7.52 or so. That is not bad for an untuned car that is stock. That is running with a GT2


Is that the 2.0 version? I've noticed they made a lot of improvements for the USDM STi in the past 2 model years. I've been thinking about keeping my 330i and getting one again as a fun car. :eeps: I used to have an 04, and while it was good I thought it could be better, I sold it and got the 330i.

dawgbone
07-29-2005, 09:38 AM
This horsepower race will have to end at some point, I mean who needs over 400 HP for the street?

It has already ended in the states, many of years ago...It's Europe, that's now getting into the HP race..All along they have been concerned with making well designed vehicles that are economical to compensate for high fuel prices..With the exception of the Italians in which everyone drives 50+ mpg scooters, and only the riches of the rich drive Ferrari's and Lambo's..But now Euro car manufacturers' are taking on the American muscle genre in a different, more refined way...I hate to say it, but Japanese and Euro car manufacturers have always been ahead of the game as compared to U.S. car makers..in which are solely out to make profit instead of competing with the rest of the world..Make cars/trucks cheaply, sell plenty.. How many piss on BMW/Merc/Porsche stickers do you see on the streets?

I do have to say that I'm somewhat impressed by GM and their LS7..
7.0 Liter displacement, CNC??(variable valve timing, I guess), and dry sump oil system...

bimmerguy
07-29-2005, 09:55 AM
It has already ended in the states, many of years ago...It's Europe, that's now getting into the HP race..All along they have been concerned with making well designed vehicles that are economical to compensate for high fuel prices..With the exception of the Italians in which everyone drives 50+ mpg scooters, and only the riches of the rich drive Ferrari's and Lambo's..But now Euro car manufacturers' are taking on the American muscle genre in a different, more refined way...I hate to say it, but Japanese and Euro car manufacturers have always been ahead of the game as compared to U.S. car makers..in which are solely out to make profit instead of competing with the rest of the world..Make cars/trucks cheaply, sell plenty.. How many piss on BMW/Merc/Porsche stickers do you see on the streets?

I do have to say that I'm somewhat impressed by GM and their LS7..
7.0 Liter displacement, CNC??(variable valve timing, I guess), and dry sump oil system...

Why do you think it has ended here with cars like the Mustang GT500(450 HP est.) in the pipeline?

stylinexpat
07-29-2005, 11:22 AM
Is that the 2.0 version? I've noticed they made a lot of improvements for the USDM STi in the past 2 model years. I've been thinking about keeping my 330i and getting one again as a fun car. :eeps: I used to have an 04, and while it was good I thought it could be better, I sold it and got the 330i.


Will have to double check. In the Japanese magazine they claim Torque at 43Kg.. I don't know they use that KG. Stuff. But I do know that 43 is quite high. If they brought that new STI into Taiwan my VW R32would be sold over night for one of those Babies. I never cared for an Aerican car in my life but I would buy a new Vette as a secondary car to cruise around in. WOuld be nice in california with the Targa Top off and 400 Horses on Tap, along with a nice navigation system and Leather. That cars gets looks every where it goes. For the Money, it is a heck of a car. I doubt one would look at $100K car and not bother having second looks at the Vette. Can pocket the other 30-40K in Savings and go travelling. With 30-40K one can hit a lot of Red Light Districts around the world :bigpimp: :p

dawgbone
07-29-2005, 11:26 AM
Why do you think it has ended here with cars like the Mustang GT500(450 HP est.) in the pipeline?

Ricer genre??

I think what I was mainly getting at is that domestic car makers are now shooting for more refinement and becoming of age...Whereas overseas have been there and are still keeping ahead of the GM/Ford..etc..More so, technology is advancing over time and you may notice that engine displacments have decreased since the 50-60's where the goats, chargers, mustangs, and camaros were battling the HP race..We have already seen 400+ hp production cars and trucks..And the HP has decreased, now their sales gimick is that this model has the most HP in it's class..From year to year, they(GM, Ford, Mopar) compete over small incriments of HP..Why not blow the competition out of the water...
I think in terms of sales...a better MPG number on a window sticker, will outweight any high output engine performance number...

Take an M3, you'll get it all.. refinement, good fuel economy for the performance, a usable rear seat, and just an all out fun car to drive...

fun factor= Corvette
smart buy factor= M3
But this comarison is two different class of car...

bimmerguy
07-29-2005, 11:59 AM
Ricer genre??
Take an M3, you'll get it all.. refinement, good fuel economy for the performance, a usable rear seat, and just an all out fun car to drive...

fun factor= Corvette
smart buy factor= M3
But this comarison is two different class of car...


Agreed, mine will be here soon! ZCP SMG! :thumbup:

shaun132
08-04-2005, 12:08 PM
my friend had a C6 vette, he traded it in for an E55 AMG because he didnt like the interior of the vette