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View Full Version : I wish BMW never made DSC


Stuka
09-01-2002, 05:27 PM
No, not because I have to turn it off every timje I start the car:p , but because of the idiots on E46 M3 roadfly. These guys have no idea how bad of a driver they are because DSC is working all too hard in the background saving their behind.:mad:

So they think that they are superman, they turn off DSC, then KABOOM.:lmao: Witness the following thread:

http://forums.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46m3/forum.php?postid=622696&page=1

DSC makes a lot of people drive their 333HP cars with NO RESPECT, then they wonder why they crash when they turn the damn thing off.:dunno:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

nate
09-01-2002, 05:42 PM
I saw that and couldn't believe it...

I could see that it could happen if there was a patch of oil or sand, but the poster was clueless as to what happened.

Sucks for him :cry:

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-01-2002, 05:59 PM
Having been sideways in an S55, I can certainly sympathize. :p

That said, I'm very glad that the car I really learned to drive on was RWD with NO traction control. And sometime, I'm actually going to go to one of the CCA driver'd schools. :)

Imola Ed
09-01-2002, 06:04 PM
I've only owned one front wheel drive car in my life, IIRC. And I used to live back east, so I got to test my ability to drift in the snow, et. al. Good thing, I guess.

Chris330Ci
09-01-2002, 06:19 PM
Sometimes I'm glad it's there, ie bad weather, but other times I really wish it wouldn't interfere so much. I just added the pic in my sig because I was running on a track in an all day rainstorm where there were many large puddles. We probably should not have been out there, but DSC kicked in many times to save me in loose corners.

EDIT: Stuka - just read some of your comments on .org. I agree with you and know where you're coming from, but take it easy ok? You can't honestly expect people to risk their investments just to impress track junkies.

I am in the process of learning how to control oversteer and on safe turns (no barriers, signs, houses, trees, etc.) , I usually have DSC off. Now yesterday out at Lowes MS, there was no way I was going to turn it off and risk putting my car into a wall (infield road course has 'em too). I saw two guys spin out right in front of me and they just narrowly missed an unforgiving wreck. I'm not bashing you, just asking that you give people a chance. We'll, or at least I'll get there! :thumbup:

More pix from yesterday:

http://www.spinningloft.com/bimmerfest/lms/100-0013_IMG.jpg

http://www.spinningloft.com/bimmerfest/lms/100-0015_IMG.jpg

http://www.spinningloft.com/bimmerfest/lms/100-0030_IMG.jpg

Pinecone
09-02-2002, 06:00 AM
DSC does do a lot that people don't realise.

I was at BeaveRun for a track event and had one session in the wet but drying conditions. The instructor suggested leaving the DSC on, but after a few laps I turned it off. Why? Because it was doing such a good job, so subtly that I was building bad habits, like WOT throttle exiting a tight turn in 2nd. Without DSC that would have meant spinning off the track, but the DSC just kept too much power from being delivered.

Advice: Before you drive with DSC off on the street, take at least one, if not many driving schools, from BMW CCA through professional schools. Much cheaper than your insurance bill on your replacement high performance car.

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-02-2002, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Pinecone
DSC does do a lot that people don't realise.

I was at BeaveRun for a track event and had one session in the wet but drying conditions. The instructor suggested leaving the DSC on, but after a few laps I turned it off. Why? Because it was doing such a good job, so subtly that I was building bad habits, like WOT throttle exiting a tight turn in 2nd. Without DSC that would have meant spinning off the track, but the DSC just kept too much power from being delivered.

Advice: Before you drive with DSC off on the street, take at least one, if not many driving schools, from BMW CCA through professional schools. Much cheaper than your insurance bill on your replacement high performance car.

This is actually one reason why I've become somewhat ambivalent to AWD cars. I KNOW that I no longer have the fine throttle control I had when I had my E36. Even with DSC switched off, AWD will just sort it out for you.

ruteger
09-02-2002, 08:58 AM
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that the post over at roadfly might be a troll? A very good one, to be sure, but a troll nonetheless, very similiar to the bulk spam chain email letters that used to be sent out, designed to elicit as many as possible responses from well-intentioned (yet naive) people. If this is the case, judging from the response (half the roadfly board is filled with this one thread), I'd say this fellow succeeded.

I say this primarily because of the extremely lucid prose that is used. It just looks too polished to be real.

Just a thought...

ed325i
09-02-2002, 12:52 PM
I think for 95% of all BMW owners, DSC should be left on at all times. It really is amazing that so many drivers on some broads claim to turn off DSC for most of their driving. I am talking about 16-19 year olds with very limited driving experience, skill, and too much testosterone. Most BMW owners never take any type of driving courses beyond what is required to obtain their license. Even fewer participate in track events. They have very little real idea regarding how to really control their quick rear wheel drive cars. However, since they read that DSC “sucks”, they are lead to believe that they are more “cool” and have more fun if they disengage DSC every time they get behind the wheel. Does the E46’s DSC intervene a little too early? Yes. However, for the vast majority of the drivers, DSC will do a much better job of bringing their cars back into control than the drivers can. I have taken BMW’s driving course where it was demonstrated again and again, the advantage of DSC and ABS. We were taught to drive with both the automated systems engaged and disengaged. Guess what? This electronic stuff works. Yes, good experience drivers can potentially do a better job, but EVERYONE has an off day every now and again. The electronics don’t.

Ed

The HACK
09-03-2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by ruteger
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that the post over at roadfly might be a troll? A very good one, to be sure, but a troll nonetheless, very similiar to the bulk spam chain email letters that used to be sent out, designed to elicit as many as possible responses from well-intentioned (yet naive) people. If this is the case, judging from the response (half the roadfly board is filled with this one thread), I'd say this fellow succeeded.

I say this primarily because of the extremely lucid prose that is used. It just looks too polished to be real.

Just a thought...

I don't suppose it's crossed ANYONE's mind that 90% of the post going on at the M3 board at roadfly might be a troll? Come on, 4,000 units built a year and we get half of that...On a single day I think I counted about 10,000 different users and handles on that board. You'd think EVERY single E46 M3 owner are posting there.

I think in reality, there's about 10% real owners and 90% pimply faced 16 year old kids who wishes their DAD bought them an M3 like they read about some other pimply faced 16 year old kid's fantasy about their dad buying them an M3.

At least when I DO post there I made it a point to say that I don't own an M3. :)

scottn2retro
09-04-2002, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by ruteger
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that the post over at roadfly might be a troll? A very good one, to be sure, but a troll nonetheless, very similiar to the bulk spam chain email letters that used to be sent out, designed to elicit as many as possible responses from well-intentioned (yet naive) people. If this is the case, judging from the response (half the roadfly board is filled with this one thread), I'd say this fellow succeeded.

I say this primarily because of the extremely lucid prose that is used. It just looks too polished to be real.

Just a thought...

I read the original post and it did sound a little too polished and self-reflective to be some dumb@ss kid. I know one thing, until I know what the hell I'm doing (get some classes), I'm leaving the DSC on that S54 M Roady ON :D

ezsce46
09-04-2002, 08:27 AM
Friends don't let friends drive without DSC. Empty parking lot DSC-off taking a 90 d turn, hit throttle during turn and a nice patch of sand.

operknockity
09-04-2002, 08:42 AM
Ouch:yikes:

eboller
09-04-2002, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Stuka

DSC makes a lot of people drive their 333HP cars with NO RESPECT, then they wonder why they crash when they turn the damn thing off.:dunno:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

Nothing wrong with DSC. I'm glad it's there frankly. Not that I NEED it. It's nice to know it's there to save mine or someone else's arse if needed. The problem to me sounds like the person driving--they probably shouldn't be allowed near a car in the first place--let alone a 333 hp one.

Eric

rwg
09-04-2002, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Pinecone
DSC does do a lot that people don't realise.

I was at BeaveRun for a track event and had one session in the wet but drying conditions. The instructor suggested leaving the DSC on, *snip*

I thought the idea behind driving school was for you to learn how to drive your car, not to watch electronics do it for you. So it was raining. Seems like the proper advice is to turn it off and start out very slowly until you get a feel for what is happening.

Of course, that's easy to say from my perspective. I have always managed to have phenomenal weather for schools.

Stuka
09-04-2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Pinecone
DSC does do a lot that people don't realise.

I was at BeaveRun for a track event and had one session in the wet but drying conditions. The instructor suggested leaving the DSC on, but after a few laps I turned it off. Why? Because it was doing such a good job, so subtly that I was building bad habits, like WOT throttle exiting a tight turn in 2nd. Without DSC that would have meant spinning off the track, but the DSC just kept too much power from being delivered.

WOT out of the turn is not necessarily bad.;) In fact, it could be really fun on onramps, uh, going sideways, then blowing by Hack, that is.:thumbup:

But yes, I agree. DSC masks too many bad driving habits. People need to realize that it is UNNATURAL to expect RWD cars to not oversteer.:rolleyes:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

Stuka
09-04-2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by rwg


I thought the idea behind driving school was for you to learn how to drive your car, not to watch electronics do it for you. So it was raining. Seems like the proper advice is to turn it off and start out very slowly until you get a feel for what is happening.

Of course, that's easy to say from my perspective. I have always managed to have phenomenal weather for schools.

I agree, leaving DSC on at the track is almost like flushing your $400 down the toilet. At Vegas, they taught us to drive the wet line, and all of us left DSC off after the track was still slick from the rain.

No one spun besides Raffi.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

Stuka
09-04-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by eboller


Nothing wrong with DSC. I'm glad it's there frankly. Not that I NEED it. It's nice to know it's there to save mine or someone else's arse if needed. The problem to me sounds like the person driving--they probably shouldn't be allowed near a car in the first place--let alone a 333 hp one.

Eric

Yeah, but that would mean 99.9999999% of the M3 drivers in the U.S. who "drive hard" with DSC on.:rolleyes:

I agree that DSC is great at saving these idiots behinds. I just wish BMW didn't include it in the M cars. In the real E36 M3's, there was no ASC+T. And any idiots who drive it without respect that a 321Hp RWD car demands, the car will pimp slap the driver then send him to the ditch via FedEx. :thumbup: Much like the Porsche 993's and prior. They are not called widow makers for no reason.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

Raffi
09-04-2002, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Stuka




No one spun besides Raffi.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:



:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: That's because your crappy M3 engine dropped oil all over my line in turn 5! :lmao: :lmao: