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MBZ
09-04-2002, 11:00 AM
I am strongly considering trading in my S430 sport for 2002 or
2003 745i.
I am new to this board and have heard horror stories about
problems so severe that owners were spending more time with their loaner cars than with their new car. Were the problems intial and since resolved or is this a problem car? I would appriciate any input, especially from owners of the new 745i.
I had a 1998 528i and never had any problems with it.
Help! My only other chouce is a Lexus LS 430.

nate
09-04-2002, 11:12 AM
There are some cars that have software glitches, but the vast majority aren't like what you hear online. Though, I wouldn't buy one expecting it not to have any glitches. The fun to drive factor over the Lexus far outweighs the potential software issues. Also, any electronic bugs can be worked out though updates. I was talking to somone in the service department about it this morning. They haven't had that many cars come back, less than he expected they said. Though, you could always get a lemon or a perfect car. Always luck :dunno:

The HACK
09-04-2002, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by MBZ
I am strongly considering trading in my S430 sport for 2002 or
2003 745i.
I am new to this board and have heard horror stories about
problems so severe that owners were spending more time with their loaner cars than with their new car. Were the problems intial and since resolved or is this a problem car? I would appriciate any input, especially from owners of the new 745i.
I had a 1998 528i and never had any problems with it.
Help! My only other chouce is a Lexus LS 430.

If you're coming from a Lexus you will probably be disappointed with the service and buying experience, as well as reliability. BMWs are built exceptionally well MECHANICALLY but tend to have little things that will break down, things like weather seal, window regulators, AC blowers...etc. It's always little stuff that does not detract from the driving experience but can be very annoying for owners of a luxury car. Compared to other luxury cars, BMW is actually very good but compared to the king of reliability, Lexus, it'll probably drive you mad.

Just keep in mind though, you ARE buying the flagship and you will be treated like royalty when you bring your car in. Just make sure you KNOW a very good dealership service department around where you live, and even if things do break down (1st year models tend to have a lot of bugs) you will probably be taken care of.

I would avoid this years model for the time being, especially since you already have a very nice vehicle to drive. It depends on your priority as well, the 745i is a technical wonder and the best sports sedan in the world...If you want the ultimate driving experience, get the 745i. If you want the ultimate reliable luxury driviner appliance, I suggest you keep the Lexus.

in_d_haus
09-04-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by The HACK

Just keep in mind though, you ARE buying the flagship and you will be treated like royalty when you bring your car in.

When I was at my dealer getting the M there was a lady looking at a Z8. The owner himself was helping her...talk about service! :yikes:

nate
09-04-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by in_d_haus


When I was at my dealer getting the M there was a lady looking at a Z8. The owner himself was helping her...talk about service! :yikes:

I've been standing around waiting for service and the owner helped me :dunno:

johnlew
09-04-2002, 11:24 AM
Unless I misread, he owns a Mercedes now.

My advice, forget the Lexus, unless you love a neutered driving experience and cookies at the dealer.

Drive the 745, see if you love it more than the Benz and then decide. I wouldn't get too concerned about service issues. I have two, a 3 and 5, and the service issue have been very low.

The HACK
09-04-2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by in_d_haus


When I was at my dealer getting the M there was a lady looking at a Z8. The owner himself was helping her...talk about service! :yikes:

Well, can you IMAGINE the type of margin they're making on that car? ONE single sale of the Z8 will probably pay for all operations at that dealership for a month.

Man, I'd help her wipe her *ss after a dump if she'd buy a Z8 from me.

johnlew
09-04-2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci


I've been standing around waiting for service and the owner helped me :dunno:

Owner, when he's around, always says "hi" to me. Doesn't necessarily help improve the service though. But then, I haven't really needed any.

MBZ
09-04-2002, 11:43 AM
I currently drive a 2000 mercedes S430 Sport AMG package. I have had minor things happen to this car and that I can live with, but the Roadfly E65 message boards really make you pause,
they talk about 5, 10 , 15 trips to the dealer with very little success of getting the car right. Also, they say that BMW Corp. has really had a poor attitude towards trying to help them. I have also read some posts that there have been very little problems.
I would only go to Lexus ( I have never had one) if I thought that the 745i was frought with problems.
I did drive the car and it was amazing. I particually liked the seats, comfort features, and the handling. But from the posts, the problems start showing up a couple of months after you drive off.
I have owned lincolns, cadillac, Jag, Bmw, and a few MBZ S classes, and only the Jag had serious mechanical problems.
Are there any other websites where I can get more info on the new 745I?

Mr. The Edge
09-04-2002, 11:44 AM
buy an s500 and be done with it :eek:

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-04-2002, 11:45 AM
I suspect that the 2003s will have had the really major bugs worked out...
I would never ever buy a first year, but the second year should be a lot better.

One of my Uncles bought a 745iL and he's rather fond of it. (It replaced a S430 as his commuter car.)

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-04-2002, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by atyclb
buy an s500 and be done with it :eek:

IMHO, the standard S class is a bit bovine... Even with the AMG package it doesn't handle all that well... The S55 is another matter, of course, but...

Mr. The Edge
09-04-2002, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd

I would never ever buy a first year, but the second year should be a lot better.


what was the 325xiT's first year?

:eeps: :eeps: :eeps: :eek:

nate
09-04-2002, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by atyclb


what was the 325xiT's first year?

:eeps: :eeps: :eeps: :eek: :yikes:

ChrisTO
09-04-2002, 11:49 AM
IMO i think going from MB to Lexus is a step backwards in automotive engineering innovation. and if service and quality is all you cared about then obviously the type of car u drive isn't a priority, short of calling u a wuss. :)

having been in the new 745i, if i ever have that kinda of cash i would buy it immediately over the new S-class despite the Bangle butt. it truely is a rolling tour-de-force of technology and it handles way better than any 3series or sports car my butt has had the pleasure of gracing. it is absolutely amazing how it handles far better than the 3series for such a large car. strongly suggest u take one for a test drive and then decide.

but definitely problems(bmw quirks) and service will not be top notch, compared to Lexus. so do u drive a car or do u DRIVE a car? ur a lucky guy to have to make decisions based on S-class/745i/lexus

my 2 Canadian cents worth.

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-04-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by atyclb


what was the 325xiT's first year?

:eeps: :eeps: :eeps: :eek:

I had kind of hoped that the fact that BMW had had the E46 out for a while would help... My experience has not exactly done anything to contradict my comment, either. I sure as hell won't buy a first year again. My car was spent at least six weeks out of commission since I took delivery.

JPinTO
09-04-2002, 12:26 PM
I think it's the electrical/computer issues that have been always sources of frustration for BMW. The E65 is so laden with all this electrical crap that it's going to cause lots of issues for the owners. Particularly the first year.

2 people in the R&T letters section this month were complaining about electrical issues that are unresolved or unresolvable at the dealer level.

Go with the S55 supercharged. Or perhaps a new A8 or Phaeton.

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-04-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by JPinTO
I think it's the electrical/computer issues that have been always sources of frustration for BMW. The E65 is so laden with all this electrical crap that it's going to cause lots of issues for the owners. Particularly the first year.

2 people in the R&T letters section this month were complaining about electrical issues that are unresolved or unresolvable at the dealer level.

Go with the S55 supercharged. Or perhaps a new A8 or Phaeton.

I think he said in a roundabout way that his budget is about 80K. :p

rost12
09-04-2002, 01:41 PM
MBZ -
My father has nothing but good times with his 745i :)
Steering vibration was fixed quite promtly, rough idle sorta fixed itself :dunno:
I was scared to death by the roadfly forum too, but all went smoothly enough for us to never even consider buying another brand :)

Oh, and do drive the car. It is amazing.

Although, to be honest...If my father could, he'd be driving S55. Just because "it's a Benz".

Ok, I'm not the best photographer, but I think this looks good:

http://homepage.mac.com/rost12/bwbmw.jpg


:mad: @ JPinTO. I can't believe you even suggested an Audi :tsk:

Ack
09-04-2002, 01:50 PM
ChrisTO, Webguy330i, myself and Tara all got to ride in the Rostmobile. It is truly an amazing machine. I wasn't too fond of the styling at first, but the car does look good in dark colors. The interior fit/finish/amenities are very nice and the car does feel like it handles better than the E46. We were ripping through downtown potholed TO streets and we could hardly feel anything. We then took a ride the next day in Rosts E46 and you could feel the difference.

The handling of the E65 is crisp, the steering very tight, the brakes are amazing and the car gets up to speed very quickly. I also really liked the cooling feature of the rear seats. Tara liked the massage that she got in the front. :D

rost12
09-04-2002, 02:03 PM
Hey, don't you go bashing my 325i...me likes it very-bery much :D

scottn2retro
09-04-2002, 02:07 PM
going to the 7 series shouldn't be the issue. Deciding which dealership to buy and/or service the car at is where the big decision is to be made.

Lots of dealers in SoCal and they are all different. Shop around (and not just for the best deal, but also the service policies and perks) :)

Ack
09-04-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by rost12
Hey, don't you go bashing my 325i...me likes it very-bery much :D

Rost, you know I'm not bashing your car. The 745 feels better than both your car and mine. :p

Listen, next dance at the Brass Rail will be paid by me, ok?

in_d_haus
09-04-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by rost12

Ok, I'm not the best photographer, but I think this looks good:



Great shot Rost12, especially in B&W.

rost12
09-04-2002, 02:19 PM
Ack - deal :) See, those funny-coloured money do happen to be usefull after all :)

Scottn2retro - Exactly! At this level (top of the line german sedans), even if you do run into some problems, they will be fixed. So the choice is to be based on your personal preferences about styling/driving of the cars and what comes with them, dealerships!

One of the reasons my father didn't even seriously consider a Benz this time is because he didn't like the sales personnel :dunno:
Not that sales-person matters to me, I usualy know more about the car than the person selling it, but I am picky as to who gets the car for service, for example.

rost12
09-04-2002, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by in_d_haus
Great shot Rost12, especially in B&W.

Thanks!

Mathew
09-04-2002, 03:29 PM
After an E38, my mom went from an S500 (then xj8) and now she has a 745i. We've had it for about a month, no software glitches at all. Its a July build (the last month of production), so its the latest model out, and has the most upgraded software. This car is problem free.

But, Ill admit i know a ton of 745i problems out there. Nothing super major like engines blowing up, but mainly software glitches. You can see this at the roadfly baord, but i have to say some of those guys voice out their opinions a little on the extreme side. If you can wait for a 2003, that would be great. However, if you get a 2002 model, just make sure you get all the latest software upgrades, and you should be fine. You can look up what the latest stuff is on the roadfly board, or you can just email me or someone else.

BTW, check out the FAQ site rost12 has.

rost12
09-04-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by jag3er

You must be a poor 3er driver. I test drove the 745i and it was no where near a 3er when it came to handling. Maybe acceleration was a bit better but it did not handle any better than even my 323i did. We were given the 745i for our test drive without the salesman's presence and the brakes, evasive maneuvers, acceleration were tested as they should. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO MY 323i except for the acceleration.


I really don't know anything about ChrisTO's driving skills, but I am surprised with your experience...745i easily outbrakes and outhandles my 325i sport, which I love to death, btw.
I must admit though, I didn't push either of the cars to their limit, since it's not really safe on the streets. But at the stuff I do do, like taking a high-way turn at twice the recomended speed, sevener won, hands down. The only limiting factor for my fun is the price of the car...in this respect E46 wins, I guess :)

Cheers.

ChrisTO
09-04-2002, 09:36 PM
the 7series after all does have active front anti-roll bars which more than helps in eliminating any excess body roll. with optional 19inch rubber the foot print will definitely help in the area of handling. but why dispute between these two ultimate driving machines.

what i do question is ur butt's ability to feel the seat of the pants test as u drive an IS300 now. what gives? :dunno: :bigpimp:

Originally posted by jag3er


You must be a poor 3er driver. I test drove the 745i and it was no where near a 3er when it came to handling. Maybe acceleration was a bit better but it did not handle any better than even my 323i did. We were given the 745i for our test drive without the salesman's presence and the brakes, evasive maneuvers, acceleration were tested as they should. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO MY 323i except for the acceleration.

I like everything else about the car except for the iDrive. I used to be a big proponent of it but the current state of it is miserable. Maybe v. 2.0 will be better.

bmwguynj
09-04-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd


I had kind of hoped that the fact that BMW had had the E46 out for a while would help... My experience has not exactly done anything to contradict my comment, either. I sure as hell won't buy a first year again. My car was spent at least six weeks out of commission since I took delivery.

I only hope that the first year would be the only year with most of the problems. However a family member of mine has a 2001 530 and that generation has been around for a while (several years now), and I am still making various service visits to the dealer for the following:

1. Aux Fan Recall
2. Autoclimate Fix
3. Radio Reception going in and out
4. Tail Lights going out and having to be replaced twice already

The only good thing I have to say about this experience is that I do get great service from my local BMW dealer (as good as Lexus - my other car), however I have hardly gone to see my Lexus dealer for service, unless for regular maintenance. The Lexus reliability is real.

Why can't the combination of pure driving excitement and reliability be achieved by BMW?

Nick325xiT 5spd
09-04-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by bmwguynj


I only hope that the first year would be the only year with most of the problems. However a family member of mine has a 2001 530 and that generation has been around for a while (several years now), and I am still making various service visits to the dealer for the following:

1. Aux Fan Recall
2. Autoclimate Fix
3. Radio Reception going in and out
4. Tail Lights going out and having to be replaced twice already

The only good thing I have to say about this experience is that I do get great service from my local BMW dealer (as good as Lexus - my other car), however I have hardly gone to see my Lexus dealer for service, unless for regular maintenance. The Lexus reliability is real.

Why can't the combination of pure driving excitement and reliability be achieved by BMW?

The 530i was a new model... They totally reworked the electronics that year... That's why everything was so ****ed up.

ChrisTO
09-04-2002, 10:23 PM
that would mean u found nirvana...life is just cruel that way or it helps u appreciate what u do have. :)
Originally posted by bmwguynj


Why can't the combination of pure driving excitement and reliability be achieved by BMW?

bmwguynj
09-05-2002, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd


The 530i was a new model... They totally reworked the electronics that year... That's why everything was so ****ed up.

Awwwww man that sucks...........I was also thinking first year model being a totally revamped version.

Heck, I'm still part of the warped thinking, that all these problems are worth it, since the car is so fun to drive. It just shows that money doesn't buy you perfection in a car.

bmwguynj
09-05-2002, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by ChrisTO
that would mean u found nirvana...life is just cruel that way or it helps u appreciate what u do have. :)


You are right, this car is so fun to drive, that these various problems are just like going with the flow.

However if Lexus finally wakes up and can provide a true sports sedan with a sports package and bundle that with their current reliability and service, then BMW will finally have some competition from the Japanese.

745fanatic
11-27-2006, 01:52 AM
"You can look up what the latest stuff is on the roadfly board, or you can just email me or someone else."

Could you pls tell me what the latest updates are for the 2002 745i?

AW328i
11-27-2006, 12:13 PM
What is up with all these old threads being resurrected? 4 years old people, please look at the date of the thread before you start posting!