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Serious Software Problem with 650i

5K views 63 replies 18 participants last post by  Malibubimmer 
#1 ·
First significant problem - with the FTM system.

I checked my tire pressures today. They were all around 45 lbs. Obviously the dealer, in the rush to get me the car on Wednesday, had forgotten to check the tire pressures. (Or maybe the mechanic thought 45 was right. My book says it's 28 fronts and 32 rears.)

I changed the tire pressures to 28 fronts and 32 rears. Several hours later, when I wanted to go somewhere, I turned on the ignition, started the car, went into iDrive and into FTM and asked it to re-set the tire pressures. A dialogue screen came on. Did I really want to do this? Yes or no? I clicked on "yes." It took me back to the dialogue screen. Did I really want to do this? I couldn't get the damn iDrive to accept my request. I stopped the engine, took out the "fob" (what the key is now called in BMW-land) waited a minute and then did it all over again. The damn iDrive did it all over again, too. I repeated several more times, hoping that stopping the ignition and letting the car "cool off" would re-boot. No joy. I am livid. Not only can't the dealer deliver the car correctly, but the software obviously has a glitch.

Any suggestions?

(This is strike no. 1 under the Lemon law.)
 
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#2 ·
Thats probably the number one reason why no one likes the iDrive. BMW has a piss poor software development team. All they put out is products with bugs. I can go out any day and pay $50 for a brand new game and maybe be a few minor bugs but when I go out and spend $80k on a car there are huge bugs and half the crap in it doesn't work or is on one leg.

Sorry your not having a good "Ultimate Driving Experience". I'd go to the dealer and tell them to fix it.
 
#3 ·
Malibubimmer said:
First significant problem - with the FTM system.

I turned on the ignition, started the car, went into iDrive and into FTM and asked it to re-set the tire pressures. A dialogue screen came on. Did I really want to do this? Yes or no? I clicked on "yes." It took me back to the dialogue screen. Did I really want to do this? I couldn't get the damn iDrive to accept my request. I stopped the engine, took out the "fob" (what the key is now called in BMW-land) waited a minute and then did it all over again. The damn iDrive did it all over again, too. I repeated several more times, hoping that stopping the ignition and letting the car "cool off" would re-boot. No joy. I am livid. Not only can't the dealer deliver the car correctly, but the software obviously has a glitch.

Any suggestions?

(This is strike no. 1 under the Lemon law.)
I just repeated your steps on my car and it worked just fine. It game me a quick status of "initializing" and was back to normal I even did it again to verify...

Come on man.. just chill a bit. "Lemon Law strike #1" & "livid" for something this minor?

Not sure what to think here in this forum... people seem to go a tad overboard with their message subject lines :dunno: Chill folks...
 
#5 ·
Gene - Can you come over and do mine? Actually, After I let the car "chill" (me, too), I went out and did it again. This time while it didn't accept the input, after I drove off it said it was initializing. So, maybe it was. Then a message came on saying "FTM Active." Maybe it was. Since it didn't work as the manual said it should, I don't know.

What I am concerned about is that my FTM isn't working properly, which is a safety issue. I had 2 explosive tire blowouts within the first 3 months of owning my CL55 and I have wanted a vehicle with a tire pressure monitor since then. (The 2002 CL55 didn't have the monitor. It became an option in 2003, when Mercedes also added another 148 HP. I removed the Dunlop trash and put on Michelins and have not had a problem on the Merc since.)

Actually, I also have other iDrive problems as well, and this is merely one of them. The rest I don't attribute to being "serious" and they don't piss me off. This did.

The bumper sensors remain on after I've backed up for well over a minute after I drive off. At 50 MPH I still have the sensors on and I have to turn them off manually. The iDrive is "sticking" on various menus despite my efforts to "slide," "turn" or ""push" to get something else. So I constantly have to go back to the main menu screen. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't.

So, I've got an iDrive with an attitude. I can live with in unless it involves safety.

If the dealer can't fix it this week I'll let you at it next Sunday.
 
#6 ·
chuck92103 said:
Agreed, especially since the 650 is the first model year. A 645 would have been the better way to go if you want less issues since they spent the last two years resovling them.
How do you figure that? Isn't the 650 just an engine upgrade?

I read on this forum that they dropped Windows as the OS for I-Drive on the E90.....I haven't had a single hiccup on mine after 3000 miles......knock on brushed aluminum.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Over Reactions I Sense...

Hello My Friends:

B-Careful what you ask for, iDrive isn't perfect but what you describe sounds like user issues.

What I would suggest is you spend some time reading through your user manual. Go out to your car and spend some time, like 1-2 hours and go through its features. Don't try this if you have no patience. The iDrive is not meant for people who do not have patience for it. It's not DOS! (Disk Operating System)

It's sad to say for a +80K car but nothing is perfect and BMW will learn that it needs more processing power to drive iDrive.

Check with BMW when you have the issue you describe like PDC image remains 1 minute after you drive. This doesn't seem real but I believe you if you say it does. Present this to BMW and show them and I am sure BMWNA will have a solution soon enough.

Good Luck. I will keep watching and I expect my 650i this December '05 and will be looking for the same things you mention even though I have a bit more experience with the 6er than most of you on this thread.

-GMAN
 
#10 · (Edited)
I don't think it's "user issues" (i.e., my incompetence)

gbelton said:
iDrive isn't perfect but what you describe sounds like user issues.
I don't think it was "user issues." I successfully managed all aspects of the Mercedes COMAND system for 4 years and am computer adept.

Here's why I don't think I was at fault: I followed the manual's instructions to the letter. (The manual is another amateur-hour production, too, with the word "principal" misspelled dozens of times when referring to the "principle [sic] details" of various systems. Can't BMW find someone to proofread who is conversant with the Engish language? My God, I am a curmudgeon!)

While the manual doesn't tell you explicitly what will happen on the dialogue screen after an input, it is pretty clear that it was supposed to accept the input and not revert to a prior screen asking if that's what I really wanted to do, over and over again.

GeneArch apparently got through it on his 650i without that response. And my iDrive is defective in other areas, too. While for the first 2 days I could call up the main menu screen by pressing the button for it, I can no longer reliably bring up the menu screen, the iDrive won't let me move within submenus and PDC won't turn off. As to PDC, the manual says at page 85:

650i Owner's Manual said:
After driving approx. 165 ft/50 m or at over approx 20 mph/30km/h. the system is switched off and the LED goes out.
Not in my car. PDC never goes off, even at 50 mph. I have to turn it off manually. Thank God there is a dedicated button for it and I don't have to go through iDrive, otherwise PDC would be on and I wouldn't be able to access iDrive at all!

It's obviously a defective iDrive. The question is: hardware or software?
 
#12 · (Edited)
chuck92103 said:
I do feel sorry for those who bought the first rev of i-drive in the 7 series, this is the area BMW should have done it right, and failed. As a result i-drive has gotten a bad wrap. This coupled with buyers who are not computer savvy has created a sales/marketing blunder for BMW.
It's almost like your minimizing BMW's fault here. I think it's unreasonable to think that people would be computer savvy in the ways of iDrive. It's unreasonable to assume that Unix developers would be computer savvy with Windows and the reverse. You can be savvy in Windows and still be a clutz with iDrive.

I wouldn't bandaid this thing by implicating peole as the dummies. Considering the experience that BMW should have built up with it iDrive in other models, BMW screwed up with the 7 series, and trying to pass the buck to marketing and dumb users is to shirk responsibility for bad quality issues. This is a general malaise for the entire software industry.
 
#14 ·
Malibubimmer said:
(This is strike no. 1 under the Lemon law.)
With all due respect, that's an unfortunate approach to a week old car, isn't it? It just seems like you're already sucking any potential enjoyment right out of the experience by something that is, by most accounts, relatively minor.

(For the record, I do understand the frustration of an expensive car that does not perform as expected. I owned both an '02 745 and an '03 745 that were eventually returned to the fine folks at BMW.)

As for the FTM issue, after changing to snow tires on my '05 745i, I had similar issues with my FTM sensor because the service tech didn't re-initialize the system. I seem to remember them telling me that process should be done when the car is in service mode (key inserted, but engine not fully engaged). I don't know if the same is true for the 650 or not, as I don't have mine yet, but if your problem with the FTM persists, you might give that a shot.

Good luck with your car. Hopefully BMW can resolve the issues that you are having, great or small, and you can get back to the business of enjoying the trappings of success.
 
#15 ·
Few points here,

1) Malibubimmer may well have a glitchy iDrive. Could be CCC, software load, loose connection, or any of a number of things. Carefully document so u have good list for dealer. PDC should go off just seconds after getting into drive or forward gear with any pace at all.

2) 650 is not a new model year. 3rd year of E63/E64. It has a larger V8 engine worldwide, but retains the same upgraded 6cyl introduced in March for the Europeans (and other non US locations) as an alternate for the V8.

3) Software updates will be common for the E63/E64 in any form for all model years. Only the DME or engine management need be different. Oh there will be suble differences to take care of auto dimming and Night vision for the Europeans now and maybe US later if introduced.

4) Software updates are more frequent than 1 per 6 months. From Jan 05 to date we have gone 15.x to 19.x. Expect at least one more this year with MP3 hopefully for the rest of us.

5) Tire pressures from dealer are high 95% of the time. It is on every car pick up checklist I have every seen. ALWAYS take tire gauge with u when you go to dealer for new car pick up or any tire work. ALWAYS get a good gauge and keep it in car. Most of us have RF. If u get a FTM alarm u must check tire pressure to validate if or which tire, you cannot see it.

6) I agree with xspeedy, Mr. gbelton is very helpful, but the font games are a little annoying. I am always thinking he has some emergency information to pass on :) But I can live with it .

7) As far as Idrive and demographics - age is NOT a factor not now, not ever with cutting edge technology. I have been in technical fields (radar, sonar, missiles, space, satellites) for 40 years. I learned from OLDTIMERS, and when I started leading various technical organizations I also heard these same generalizations as we introduced new techniques be the hardware or software. Always my older (up to 75 years old) led the way using and performing great things with the new technology. Patience, perseverance, and experience overcame any obstacles and far outperformed their younger counterparts every time. I will say, however, that before taking on some like iDrive, COMMAND, or Audi’s MMI that a prospective buyer should try it out very thoroughly. In malibubimmers case I have to assume that is not at issue here.

ALL IMHO
 
#16 · (Edited)
I Would Have BMW Look at This ONE!

Malibubimmer said:
I don't think it was "user issues." I successfully managed all aspects of the Mercedes COMAND system for 4 years and am computer adept. It's obviously a defective iDrive. The question is: hardware or software?
Hello My Friends:

I commend your success with Mercedes COMMAND system but it is no iDrive. BUT I get your point...

I believe what you have is a software corruption issue. If you have other iDrive issues, I would definately go to BMW for a reload.

Good luck with the new 6er and keep us posted.

P.S. You guys are too serious about stuff like font changes but it's all good, so I will comply this time... (For now):)

-GMAN

 
#17 ·
cobradav said:
2) 650 is not a new model year. 3rd year of E63/E64. It has a larger V8 engine worldwide, but retains the same upgraded 6cyl introduced in March for the Europeans (and other non US locations) as an alternate for the V8.
Similarly, I have noticed from reading 7-series message boards (mostly on Roadfly, which I tend to follow more than here), that 2006 MY 750 owners tended to have some new software glitches that I did not encounter with my 2005 MY 745, even though it was not a brand new model. Granted, there were some changes made to iDrive for '06, but nothing significant, given the accounts of owners. Still, a number of bugs & glitches seemed to appear that were not there on many 2005 models... some unrelated to iDrive.
 
#19 ·
chuck92103 said:
Allsoftware has bugs, regardless of the product it is installed.

Find a version that works for you and stop mucking with it.
Very true: if it ain't broke, don't fix it :) You'll notice I went to 16.2 from 15.2 (as built). Since then I had what I needed and have passed on 17 thru 19. When they release a version that provides MP3 I will update. All updates are cumulative as most are aware. If I upgrade at say CIP 20.x then I will get whatever I needed for the E63 that were in the CIP release 17 on up.

Part of the issues seen with software upgrades is that we do not all see the same impact. I have no easy answer to that. But some causes are how well the dealer does the upgrade. It is a slow process and there are warning flags that need to be monitored by the installation tech. Ignoring those could result in a faulty load and subsequent glitches observed by owner. Sometimes there are minor hardware differences or version (hardware) differences that make one owners indications different than another on the same CIP version. And as in all areas of our work life there are techs that really care and do an excellent job of install and test and there are those that, well... suck and don't give a crap.
 
#21 ·
chuck92103 said:
Any boay figure out how to tell which version of sftware is loaded without going to the dealer?

Sure would be nice to respond to these posts by providing software versions, might help hus deduce some of these issues? :dunno:
Only dealer can tell us.

I put my CIP version in sig so all can see that my responses are based on 16.2.
 
#22 ·
Two New Problems?

Two more problems today, although the previous ones with the iDrive have not reoccurred.

First, the iDrive froze once when I was making a call with my RAZR V3 with T-Mobile. I was unable to hang up the phone. The iDrive was dead as a doornail except that the screen was on. I had to retrieve the phone and physically hang up from the phone keypad. After I hung up from the handset, control of the iDrive was returned to me.

Second, I made one stop on the way home at the market. I turned off the engine and pushed the key ("fob") out of its slot. Nothing went off except the engine. The radio blared away, the iDrive screen continued to stay on. I tried several times. No joy.

The BMW manual says that a call may be continued for something like 20 minutes after the car is otherwise turned off. I figured the iDrive might be receiving the bluetooth signal from the phone and figured I was talking on it, so I took the phone with me. When I came back (thankfully), the radio and iDrive screen were off. When I got home I turned off the phone first and all was quiet on the western front.

Has anybody else experienced these issues with a 6er or 7er?

(Of course, as to these problems BMW will say - the RAZR - T-Mobile combination is not approved.)

I'm beginning to think that Arnholt spilled an Oktoberfest beer into my iDrive controller as he drove it off the assembly line.
 
#23 ·
Malibubimmer said:
Two more problems today, although the previous ones with the iDrive have not reoccurred.

First, the iDrive froze once when I was making a call with my RAZR V3 with T-Mobile. I was unable to hang up the phone. The iDrive was dead as a doornail except that the screen was on. I had to retrieve the phone and physically hang up from the phone keypad. After I hung up from the handset, control of the iDrive was returned to me.

Second, I made one stop on the way home at the market. I turned off the engine and pushed the key ("fob") out of its slot. Nothing went off except the engine. The radio blared away, the iDrive screen continued to stay on. I tried several times. No joy.

The BMW manual says that a call may be continued for something like 20 minutes after the car is otherwise turned off. I figured the iDrive might be receiving the bluetooth signal from the phone and figured I was talking on it, so I took the phone with me. When I came back (thankfully), the radio and iDrive screen were off. When I got home I turned off the phone first and all was quiet on the western front.

Has anybody else experienced these issues with a 6er or 7er?

(Of course, as to these problems BMW will say - the RAZR - T-Mobile combination is not approved.)

I'm beginning to think that Arnholt spilled an Oktoberfest beer into my iDrive controller as he drove it off the assembly line.
I was about to ask of this was an "Oktoberfest" car :)

I have had one hang/freeze with my v551 (Cingular), but only one in 8 months. But others (E60 & E63) have reported this as well, but again only on a very infrequent basis. Never had the continuing radio/iDrive issue, but again some E60 and E63 reports of once, twice but then does not do it again.
 
#24 ·
cobradav said:
I was about to ask of this was an "Oktoberfest" car :)

I have had one hang/freeze with my v551 (Cingular), but only one in 8 months. But others (E60 & E63) have reported this as well, but again only on a very infrequent basis. Never had the continuing radio/iDrive issue, but again some E60 and E63 reports of once, twice but then does not do it again.
:beerchug:

I have had to re-boot the COMAND system in the Mercedes perhaps 4 times in the last 4 years. And the V60 phone is a piece of junk.

The 650i drives so well -- it fits like a glove -- that I hope these problems do not take the patina off the glow of ownership. But I would like all the ghosts to resolve themselves by - say - next Monday night.
 
#25 ·
No issues so far for me. Knock on wood.

Does anyone know the release date for CIP software? Not sure what version I have but could tell by release dates.

I know I mostly have issues, just have not stumbled across them yet. I suspect I have version 19.x but it is only a guess. car has a build date of April 2005
 
#26 ·
chuck92103 said:
No issues so far for me. Knock on wood.

Does anyone know the release date for CIP software? Not sure what version I have but could tell by release dates.

I know I mostly have issues, just have not stumbled across them yet. I suspect I have version 19.x but it is only a guess. car has a build date of April 2005
Unfortunately BMW is not so clean on providing "release" dates. If fact I've never seen one. They just kind of ooze out. CIP 19.x was first discussed around the end of August, first of September. CIP 18 around end of July - early August. With an April build u very likely have CIP 16.2 which I got shortly after release in March, but possibly 17.x. Bad thing about these updates is we could hear about a new release but you will find no consistency in dealers knowing or admitting they have it. Really hit or miss. Some of the more savvy dealers (mine is so so ) stay current, while others just don't even try. Another fallacy in the BMW software upgrade process is a general lack of enhancement information. If it is not a "fix" to a reported problem, then it is not generally listed in the release notes. We have to depend on owner/user reports for the new "features" discovery.

I'll include the latest short list of fixes for 19, 18, 17, and 16. Some of u avid cell phone users may be interested in CIP 19 which appears to fix the pause string in stored phone numbers. I do not need it so I am waiting for CIP 20 or whatever gives me MP3 capability.
 

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