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Mr Paddle.Shift
09-09-2002, 09:45 AM
Having seen HACK's and Raffi's Schroth, I am planning to grab one for myself for ButtonWillow next weekend. Apparently there is a NEW Rallye 4 made specifically for E46s. Priced at $199 instead of $149 for the normal Rallye 4.

This new harness connects to the stock rear seat belt point. Whereas the normal harness needs to be locked down at the anchor points in the back seat.

So, is it really necessary to pay $50 more for the convenience? :dunno:

NEW harness:
<img src="http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/pimg/sc/BMW-Rallye4.jpg">
nate
09-09-2002, 10:07 AM
Remember, you have to buy two!
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-09-2002, 10:10 AM
Who cares about the passenger...bleh!:p

[i]Originally posted by nate328Ci [/i
Remember, you have to buy two!
nate
09-09-2002, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by VinceTopasBlau3
Who cares about the passenger...bleh!:p



Equal restraints for driver & passenger (instructor) are usually requiered :dunno:
in_d_haus
09-09-2002, 10:58 AM
I'm getting the Rallye 4 myself.
in_d_haus
09-09-2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci


Equal restraints for driver & passenger (instructor) are usually requiered :dunno:
In our club they are not required but the instructor sure appreciates it :D

I run by myself so I don't worry about a 2nd set.
JawKnee
09-09-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by in_d_haus
I'm getting the Rallye 4 myself.

I run the Rallye 4s... Like Doug, I drive solo. However, I bought the 2nd set because I told myself I had money burning a hole in my pocket... yeah right! I bought the 2nd set for completeness I guess and when I take passengers out, I give them the option of wearing one if they would like.

<center>
<img src="http://www.e46fanatics.com/members/JawKnee/harnesses.jpg">
</center>
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-09-2002, 12:51 PM
Both the NEW ($199) and the normal ones ($149) are Rallye 4.

So you guys got the $149.00 one? :dunno:

:)
Raffi
09-09-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by nate328Ci


Equal restraints for driver & passenger (instructor) are usually requiered :dunno:

But most instructors on the West Coast will not wear the harness unless you have a roll cage...
Raffi
09-09-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by VinceTopasBlau3
Both the NEW ($199) and the normal ones ($149) are Rallye 4.

So you guys got the $149.00 one? :dunno:

:)

Get the older model, like mine, and I will install it for you. IMHO< the new model is not worth the extra $50.

Lemme know :thumbup:
CD-55
09-09-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Raffi


But most instructors on the West Coast will not wear the harness unless you have a roll cage...

I got the roll cage in the E30... It was installed really nice! The seat cushions have been custom cut for the cage, then recovered with Recaro cloth!:thumbup:
nate
09-09-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Raffi


But most instructors on the West Coast will not wear the harness unless you have a roll cage...

Why is that?
nate
09-09-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by JawKnee


I run the Rallye 4s... Like Doug, I drive solo. However, I bought the 2nd set because I told myself I had money burning a hole in my pocket... yeah right! I bought the 2nd set for completeness I guess and when I take passengers out, I give them the option of wearing one if they would like.


Yes, I also go solo. But, I think I would get two if I ever bought them....
JawKnee
09-09-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by nate328Ci


Why is that?

In short, harnesses do not allow one to submarine (stock belts do) in the event of a roll over and as a result, without a cage, the roof would collapse while you're held tightly in your seat...

I have always been aware of this but I have no issues running them w/o a cage. Around here, a harness bar is referred to as the bar of death when not used in conjunction with a cage. As a result, lots of guys who were running a harness bar w/o a cage have taken them out and are no longer wearing harnesses.
nate
09-09-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by JawKnee


In short, harnesses do not allow one to submarine (stock belts do) in the event of a roll over and as a result, without a cage, the roof would collapse while you're held tightly in your seat...

I have always been aware of this but I have no issues running them w/o a cage. Around here, a harness bar is referred to as the bar of death when not used in conjunction with a cage. As a result, lots of guys who were running a harness bar w/o a cage have taken them out and are no longer wearing harnesses.

Ah, I didn't think of that. Makes complete sense though.
in_d_haus
09-09-2002, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by JawKnee


In short, harnesses do not allow one to submarine (stock belts do) in the event of a roll over and as a result, without a cage, the roof would collapse while you're held tightly in your seat...

I have always been aware of this but I have no issues running them w/o a cage. Around here, a harness bar is referred to as the bar of death when not used in conjunction with a cage. As a result, lots of guys who were running a harness bar w/o a cage have taken them out and are no longer wearing harnesses.


What Jawknee said...

Sidenote, I may put a rollbar in the M
Raffi
09-09-2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by nate328Ci


Why is that?

They claim they can't duck forward or sideways in a rollover, so their head could get smashed by a caving roof. I see their point.

EDIT: Oops, just saw the previous replies!
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-09-2002, 09:47 PM
Found two places that sell the harness: HMSmotorsport (but of course) and www.soloracer.com. The later has free shipping though...hmmm....

Any other suggestions? :)
in_d_haus
09-09-2002, 09:59 PM
www.bmpd.com

BMP Design does too.
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-10-2002, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the note, Doug.

Ordered mine from soloracer.com. $146 and free shipping. :)

Originally posted by in_d_haus
www.bmpd.com

BMP Design does too.
in_d_haus
09-10-2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by VinceTopasBlau3
Thanks for the note, Doug.

Ordered mine from soloracer.com. $146 and free shipping. :)



What color?
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-10-2002, 08:15 AM
What else??? :D ALPINA colour of course!!

Originally posted by in_d_haus


What color?
in_d_haus
09-10-2002, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by VinceTopasBlau3
What else??? :D ALPINA colour of course!!



I knew that :D
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-10-2002, 08:40 AM
Don't tempt me to swapped the Schroth letters into Alpina. :lmao: :lmao:

Ok, I seriously need help now...:(

Originally posted by in_d_haus


I knew that :D
nate
09-10-2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Raffi


They claim they can't duck forward or sideways in a rollover, so their head could get smashed by a caving roof. I see their point.

EDIT: Oops, just saw the previous replies!

Yea, this is the situation where harnesses wouldn't help.

In all other accidents short of a roll, I think I would prefer the harness. Those were the terms that I was thinking of...
Chris330Ci
09-11-2002, 10:56 AM
Interesting discussion. Very valid points about having a cage. Now I :dunno: if I will get one. Has anybody ever seen an e46 with a roll cage?
in_d_haus
09-11-2002, 11:03 AM
Yup!
Chris330Ci
09-11-2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by in_d_haus
Yup!

Are you 'Yup'-ing me? :dunno:
JawKnee
09-11-2002, 05:46 PM
I've decided to sticky this thread since many are interested or already run harnesses and do not realize the associated risks in running them without a roll cage.
in_d_haus
09-11-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Chris330Ci


Are you 'Yup'-ing me? :dunno:

Sorry, yes I've seeen a few E46 with roll cages...all custom jobs $$$$
nate
09-11-2002, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Chris330Ci
Interesting discussion. Very valid points about having a cage. Now I :dunno: if I will get one. Has anybody ever seen an e46 with a roll cage?

Sure

http://www.tckline.com/OPC/rollbars.html#anchor4641511

All E46 race cars also have them
Mr Paddle.Shift
09-12-2002, 11:32 PM
Aye..didn't read this thread for a while now...so my investment in the harness is a waste? :(

But I drive like a grandma! :D

Originally posted by JawKnee
I've decided to sticky this thread since many are interested or already run harnesses and do not realize the associated risks in running them without a roll cage.
JawKnee
09-13-2002, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by VinceTopasBlau3
Aye..didn't read this thread for a while now...so my investment in the harness is a waste? :(



Vince, I don't think it's a waste at all. I just want people to know the associated risks involved in running harnesses without a roll cage in the event of a roll over. It's your call. I knew about what could happen in the aforementioned situation before buying my harnesses and have no regrets doing so. I still run them and they have made a HUGE difference! Definitely one of my favorite upgrades that I've done for the track!
in_d_haus
09-13-2002, 07:16 AM
I have to agree with Jawknee. While there are risks associated with a harness there are HUGE benefits. I'll have mine on order soon...
SoloRacer
09-20-2002, 05:18 AM
Just an FYI, I still have an offer out for a discount on one (or a pair) of these E36 3 Series or E46 3 Series Schroth belts. The discount would be in return for photos and a short review of the harness installation/performance that I can put up on SoloRacer.com. I had someone do this already, but they never sent the info back to me so they never received the discount.

I already had an E39 5 Series customer do this for me, and it can be seen here: http://www.soloracer.com/5e39rallye4.html

If you have a digital camera, and would be willing to do this, email me at soloracerdotcom@yahoo.com for details.
Pinecone
09-21-2002, 02:44 AM
I went with the normal Rallye 4. The only realy reason was the new E456 specific ones were not available in blue. :p

I had the shop that does my tech inspectiosn install them. I just didn't have the time, plus they tech for free, so I figured to give them some paying business. According to the shop, the rear mounting points are already there on the E46 M3, like BMW planned on having the Scroth harnesses installed. I understand they are a dealer installed option in Germany.

WRT harnesses without roll bars, I is crazy that they worry about something like that, then drive in short sleeve shirts with no gloves. Having spent 3 months in a burn center, the chance of fire bothers me more than whacking my head in a roll over, assuming the roof does crush, which is not a given in a coupe.
325ci.com
09-23-2002, 12:47 PM
so the normal rallye 4's don't clip in/out? they are permanently attached at all 4 points? i have the bmw rallye 4, and two of the points go right into the belt buckle, and the other 2 are mounted on the car, BUT you can clip out of them if you want. so i can have the harness completey removed when not in use.

anyway, i got only one because i want to use it for autocross. yeah, the driver schools around here require same harness for both driver and passenger. which means i can't use my harness at watkins glen this weekend. oh well. but then you don't corner as hard on a track as you do on a short technical autocross course, when i really need to be strapped in.

and i agree-- running a harness without a cage is a bad idea. but for autox, i wouldn't worry about it.
Pinecone
09-23-2002, 05:58 PM
The normal Rallye 4s don't come completely out. The rear Y stays in place but clips to the actual shoulder harness. The belts ends are bolted in place and require seat removal to install/remove.

But if you unclip the harness from teh Y, you can sort of fold the whole thing back and shove it under the front seat. Out of sight.