View Full Version : A guy at work with a fast 'vett wants to race.
CD-55
09-09-2002, 05:46 PM
I forget his list of mods but overhead someone else claim it does 0 - 60 in 3.x sec. I am not buying that, but any way it has got to have a few hundred more HP than my E30.
He said, "I'll race, any time, any where!"
I pondered this for a full 1/4 sec knowing there is only 1 place where I may have a chance. I replied, "Roscroft NCC Autox on 9-21".
He has never done any driving events but racing from red lights.
Rosecroft has no traction, so 600 HP does not do a lot more than 300Hp.
The NCC autox's layouts are the most vague courses in the country.
I think he will be lucky to stay on course if he even really registers and shows up for the event.
Mystikal
09-09-2002, 05:52 PM
Hehe, he doesn't have a chance. With your experience and his lack of, it's a no-brainer who would win. He would have to have the best throttle control in the world to keep a modified Vette under control between the cones.
Mr. The Edge
09-09-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by CD-55
I forget his list of mods but overhead someone else claim it does 0 - 60 in 3.x sec. I am not buying that, but any way it has got to have a few hundred more HP than my E30.
what year is the vette? just curious. the new Z06 stock goes sub 4 seconds.
I bet you will beat him anyway
CD-55
09-09-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by atyclb
what year is the vette? just curious. the new Z06 stock goes sub 4 seconds.
I bet you will beat him anyway
yep that is the one! + a few mods.
EDIT: I don't think many people can launch it as fast advertized.
Mystikal
09-09-2002, 06:06 PM
Yikes, a Z06? Hmmm, that means he has the nice stability system to help him out, too. If he can drive, it would be quite close. :dunno:
CD-55
09-09-2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Mystikal
Yikes, a Z06? Hmmm, that means he has the nice stability system to help him out, too. If he can drive, it would be quite close. :dunno:
Damn, I will be screwed if that works as well as DSC. I was counting on him burning rubber and not braking in time and maybe even doing a 360 mid-course.
I will have to hope his navigation skills are only average... then like many 1st timers at NCC autox, he will be off course on all runs.
Mystikal
09-09-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by CD-55
Damn, I will be screwed if that works as well as DSC. I was counting on him burning rubber and not braking in time and maybe even doing a 360 mid-course.
I will have to hope his navigation skills are only average... then like many 1st timers at NCC autox, he will be off course on all runs.
The Corvette system is the best out there, right up there with Porsche's PSM. It has multiple modes, one of which is Competition. That system alone just gave him quite an advantage.
Originally posted by Mystikal
The Corvette system is the best out there, right up there with Porsche's PSM. It has multiple modes, one of which is Competition. That system alone just gave him quite an advantage.
No, it won't. Not if he's never autocrossed before.
I'm confident that in the Rosecroft parking lot, CD's track prepared, cage-equipped E30, running on DOT-R rubber (I assume you'll bring the track tires?), with CD at the wheel, will be more than a match for a first-time driver with no road course experience, no matter what he's behind the wheel of. I'd give CD the advantage over a McLaren piloted by a first timer.
IIRC, FTD was set by an E30 at the last Rosecroft CCA event I went to.
·clyde·
09-09-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by JST
No, it won't. Not if he's never autocrossed before.
I'm confident that in the Rosecroft parking lot, CD's track prepared, cage-equipped E30, running on DOT-R rubber (I assume you'll bring the track tires?), with CD at the wheel, will be more than a match for a first-time driver with no road course experience, no matter what he's behind the wheel of. I'd give CD the advantage over a McLaren piloted by a first timer.
IIRC, FTD was set by an E30 at the last Rosecroft CCA event I went to.
FTD at the last one I remember you going to was an E36 M3.
Other than that, I agree with you. :D
A well driven Z06 will destroy just about anything at auto-x...
·clyde·
09-09-2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
A well driven Z06 will destroy just about anything at auto-x...
the catch is "well driven" and from CD's description it doesn't sound like it will be...at least not at first
GimpyMcFarlan
09-09-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by CD-55
IHe has never done any driving events but racing from red lights.
If this statement is true, you probably have him hands down. Just about anyone can mash the throttle and go like a bat outta h*ll from a stop light. The key is those pesky corners road racers insist on throwing in to make life interesting. Just stay away from the drag strip. :thumbup:
BTW, I would love to see pics or a video of the matchup! :D
CD-55
09-10-2002, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by GimpyMcFarlan
snip
BTW, I would love to see pics or a video of the matchup! :D
Nothing to take a pic of, we are not going to be going head to head or anything. It will just a normal autox with extra bragging rights from the results.
·clyde·
09-10-2002, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by CD-55
Nothing to take a pic of, we are not going to be going head to head or anything. It will just a normal autox with extra bragging rights from the results.
MiniDV cam at a static location records all the runs. Capture the fastest runs to the computer, resize, play them back side to side.
in_d_haus
09-10-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
A well driven Z06 will destroy just about anything at auto-x...
Even a moderately driven Z06 will destroy anything in Auto-X. The national champs all drive them. The car will make a bad driver look good.
Good luck!
Originally posted by in_d_haus
Even a moderately driven Z06 will destroy anything in Auto-X. The national champs all drive them. The car will make a bad driver look good.
Good luck!
National courses are on larger lots, and thus quite a bit faster, than the small confines of the NCC's home lot. Moreover, as Clyde and I can attest from our morning sweeping duties, there are a LOT of marbles on the Rosecroft lot. The pavement is simply disintegrating into gravel in a number of areas. It's not a course that makes the most of high-hp cars.
It will be interesting to watch, though, because the Z06 is such a capable car. CD, when are you running?
CD-55
09-10-2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by JST
snip
CD, when are you running?
I am number 102 which is not to my advantage. I am hop there is a "spit" heat (odd numbers first) so I can watch the first guys run and so the track will clean-up a bit.
honestly, I bet this guy will be a no-show.
·clyde·
09-10-2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by JST
National courses are on larger lots, and thus quite a bit faster, than the small confines of the NCC's home lot. Moreover, as Clyde and I can attest from our morning sweeping duties, there are a LOT of marbles on the Rosecroft lot. The pavement is simply disintegrating into gravel in a number of areas. It's not a course that makes the most of high-hp cars.
It will be interesting to watch, though, because the Z06 is such a capable car. CD, when are you running?
Somewhere recently, CD suggested that AWD was an advantage at Rosecroft becuase of the limited traction. I don't think that it is in my case because if the wagon was RWD, it still wouldn't have enough power to spin the rears. OTOH, the skinny tires that I ***** about could be helpful on turns that haven't been "cleaned" for teh same reasons that skinnier tires are generally better in limited traction situations like wet and snow.
·clyde·
09-10-2002, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by CD-55
I am number 102 which is not to my advantage. I am hop there is a "spit" heat (odd numbers first) so I can watch the first guys run and so the track will clean-up a bit.
DId they split heats odd and even last year? All of them this year have been split at the middle (car 15 in a 30 car heat).
CD-55
09-10-2002, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Clyde@work
DId they split heats odd and even last year? All of them this year have been split at the middle (car 15 in a 30 car heat).
yeah, a few times they did.
Will you be using your street tires or the R-comps?
CD-55
09-10-2002, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Will you be using your street tires or the R-comps?
For the autox, R's of course!
this weekend at the driving school I will run the all seasons, at least for Saturday. I may switch to R's on Sunday.
Originally posted by CD-55
For the autox, R's of course!
this weekend at the driving school I will run the all seasons, at least for Saturday. I may switch to R's on Sunday.
First auto-x with your new car, all seasons would be wise :(
Plus, I am guessing that the tires you have a track (not auto-x) compound anyway...
CD-55
09-10-2002, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
First auto-x with your new car, all seasons would be wise :(
snip
What are you talking about? You think I may go slower with the better tires?
EDIT: What do I need to look for to know which compound I have?
Originally posted by CD-55
What are you talking about? You think I may go slower with the better tires?
EDIT: What do I need to look for to know which compound I have?
You have to know the car well before useing the better rubber! It doesn't matter if you might be faster. Many spin on their first time with R-Comps EVEN when they know the car. If you spin, which is a good possibility, you will be slower.
Nevermind about the compouds. You have Kuhmos, right? They are the same for auto-x and roadcourse. Hoosier and other brands have different compounds http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/hoosier.htm
I think you should use your all-seasons for the next 5 auto-x sessions....
Once you get SMOOTH with crappy tires, you will be much faster with the better tires.
CD-55
09-10-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
I think you should use your all-seasons for the next 5 auto-x sessions....
Once you get SMOOTH with crappy tires, you will be much faster with the better tires.
Nate, I think you are crazy:) The car is new to me, but I am not going to suddenly drive like a wacko.
I do want to explore the limits so I can experience how it handles at the edge (and a little beyond). I think this Sunday’s session at the skid-pad will be of great benefit to me.
Jetfire
09-10-2002, 11:45 AM
Z06s are awesome cars and they both go and handle like nothing else in that price range. However, they truly are MONSTERS that must be learned before one can drive them well on a non-linear road surface. :D Hell, even a drag racer needs to learn to launch that thing properly, otherwise they'll lose gobs of time just hopping the rear wheels at the start line.
CD, you'll have no problem dispatching this guy if it's his first time to an autocross. You guys remember your first autocross, right? I do - fun, but fast, confusing, overall just bewildering. Admonitions like "always look ahead!" just don't make it through your brain during that first run. As a result you're always driving from cone to cone, and you will not come close to a good time unless you're just a naturally talented driver.
Particularly at venues like Rosecroft, horsepower matters less than experience and skill. I say bring it on - unfortunately i won't be there to see the results. I'll meet/see you on 9/15 though, perhaps, and 9/22 at Fedex.
Mashuri
09-10-2002, 12:49 PM
Being the former owner of a 2000 Corvette, I can attest to the superior DSC (Active Handling in Chevy's terms) they come with. In "Performance" mode it practically drives for you. You can still break the rears loose and get it nice and sideways before it intervenes...yet you still have to do something rediculously crazy to lose control. The Z06's have even better programming than what my 2000 came with. Combine that with a car that can 1/4 in the mid-12's and exceed 1g roadholding stock, and you have a very formiddable machine.
Having said all that, if the guy has little or no experience navigating corners at 10/10ths, your experience should give you the upper hand. One slip-up and he may beat you. Get a clean run, however, then my money's on you. :thumbup:
CD-55
09-10-2002, 01:03 PM
If I don't beat him at HIS FIRST autocross, I doubt I will ever have a chance.:p That 'vette should be so much faster than an old E30.
scottn2retro
09-10-2002, 01:16 PM
Send Randy Forbes a PM. He has to go against (and usually beats) Z06s in SCCA autoXing all the time. He can give you as good a scouting report as you'll get.
If this guy is a first timer, you can still take him if you've got your machine dialed in. Some guy in a 360 Modena showed up out here and was beaten by a Suburu and of course, many of the BMWs including Randy Walters (who beat everybody in an E30 325is).
Originally posted by CD-55
If I don't beat him at HIS FIRST autocross, I doubt I will ever have a chance.:p That 'vette should be so much faster than an old E30.
If he beats you, offer to trade cars for a run or two.
Jetfire
09-10-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by CD-55
If I don't beat him at HIS FIRST autocross, I doubt I will ever have a chance.:p That 'vette should be so much faster than an old E30.
The vette is definitely much faster. It's scary fast, really. And with a few relatively cheap mods, it's even scarier fast. Still, sometimes finesse and size can make up for all that power. Smaller courses typically see FTDs coming from cars like S2000s, while Z06s tend to come out on top on longer ones. Either way, it's a great match-up.
Originally posted by CD-55
Nate, I think you are crazy:) The car is new to me, but I am not going to suddenly drive like a wacko.
I do want to explore the limits so I can experience how it handles at the edge (and a little beyond). I think this Sunday’s session at the skid-pad will be of great benefit to me.
Lots of people think I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong :D
Use the all-seasons :thumbup:
CD-55
09-23-2002, 07:49 AM
So did anyone hang out and catch that 'vett's time?
I was OC, OC, & 79.xxx
I don't know if the 79 is with the cone I hit, or not.
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by CD-55
So did anyone hang out and catch that 'vett's time?
I was OC, OC, & 79.xxx
I don't know if the 79 is with the cone I hit, or not.
I wish that NCC would at least post preliminary results quickly.
Originally posted by CD-55
So did anyone hang out and catch that 'vett's time?
I was OC, OC, & 79.xxx
I don't know if the 79 is with the cone I hit, or not.
I think you were 79.xxx plus 1, so 81.xxx with the penalty.
Jetfire
09-23-2002, 08:10 AM
Are you talking about the black Z06 that showed up? According to my friend Eric (with the red C5), he was all over the place. I doubt his times were very competitive, particularly if this was his first event.
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Jetfire
Are you talking about the black Z06 that showed up? According to my friend Eric (with the red C5), he was all over the place. I doubt his times were very competitive, particularly if this was his first event.
Doh! :banghead: Now I remember where I heard that the Z06 was having issues.
Jetfire, how were your times yesterday? I couldn't hear them from where I was working (station by the stop garage). My best was a 56.3xx (.306 I think).
CD-55
09-23-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Jetfire
Are you talking about the black Z06 that showed up? According to my friend Eric (with the red C5), he was all over the place. I doubt his times were very competitive, particularly if this was his first event.
Yeah that's the guy. I just talked to him... OC every run.
Even with traction control on he could not keep it from spinning out.:bawling:
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by CD-55
Yeah that's the guy. I just talked to him... OC every run.
Even with traction control on he could not keep it from spinning out.:bawling:
Is he going to try it again? Any word on the IS300 results?
CD-55
09-23-2002, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Clyde@work
Is he going to try it again? Any word on the IS300 results?
Yep, he will try again. His crew came with the IS300 and the Prelude.
The IS300 was also off course all 3 runs & the Prelude was on course 1-time-only with a ~120.
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by CD-55
Yep, he will try again. His crew came with the IS300 and the Prelude.
The IS300 was also off course all 3 runs & the Prelude was on course 1-time-only with a ~120.
That's cool that he's going to come out again. Maybe with a little luck, the following monday you can rub it in that he got beat by a grocery getter (:dunno: )
Jetfire
09-23-2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Clyde@work
Doh! :banghead: Now I remember where I heard that the Z06 was having issues.
Jetfire, how were your times yesterday? I couldn't hear them from where I was working (station by the stop garage). My best was a 56.3xx (.306 I think).
Heya Clyde! Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet up with you after my runs - I was whisked away to tech during 3rd heat.
My best run was a 56.8xxx or so. I was actually fairly consistently in the 56s for each run, except for the one time I got off course and decided to finish it out driving at 6/10ths. My last run was going very well on the first half, but I started to lose the rear on the back half and didn't know how to correct it.
Jetfire
09-23-2002, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by CD-55
Yep, he will try again. His crew came with the IS300 and the Prelude.
The IS300 was also off course all 3 runs & the Prelude was on course 1-time-only with a ~120.
It definitely wasn't a good course for a beginner. It's good that he's going to come out again, but he should tell his Prelude friend that there may be something stuck under his gas pedal. :D
Are you all planning to head out to Bowie? I'm debating it.
Originally posted by Jetfire
It definitely wasn't a good course for a beginner. It's good that he's going to come out again, but he should tell his Prelude friend that there may be something stuck under his gas pedal. :D
Are you all planning to head out to Bowie? I'm debating it.
It's been months since I've autox-ed so I intend to go out for the Oct 12th Bowie event. I had previous commitmets last Saturday, although, from the looks of things, that appears to be a mixed blessing.
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Jetfire
Are you all planning to head out to Bowie? I'm debating it.
I'm waiting hear from Roy what # I'll have. :D
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Jetfire
Heya Clyde! Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet up with you after my runs - I was whisked away to tech during 3rd heat.
My best run was a 56.8xxx or so. I was actually fairly consistently in the 56s for each run, except for the one time I got off course and decided to finish it out driving at 6/10ths. My last run was going very well on the first half, but I started to lose the rear on the back half and didn't know how to correct it.
I stuck around and watched the first three runs of the third heat, and talked to some poeple, but got too antsy to stick it out till the end.
There's something kind of hinky in a couple sections of the pavement on top of the hill there. I can feel it loud and clear, but I can't see it. Don't know if that was caught you out or not. The offsets after the big turns following the slalom were vicious. Lots of cones hit, lots of tire smoke. Lots of action :D
Jetfire
09-23-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Clyde@work
I stuck around and watched the first three runs of the third heat, and talked to some poeple, but got too antsy to stick it out till the end.
There's something kind of hinky in a couple sections of the pavement on top of the hill there. I can feel it loud and clear, but I can't see it. Don't know if that was caught you out or not. The offsets after the big turns following the slalom were vicious. Lots of cones hit, lots of tire smoke. Lots of action :D
Yeah, lots of action up there. Wasn't that where the one cart driver hit a pole, or something like that? All I could see was the car stopped and a helmet (apparently thrown in frustration) rolling down the lot. I rode along for a couple of runs and everyone was losing the tail up there, mostly in a controlled manner.
·clyde·
09-23-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Jetfire
Yeah, lots of action up there. Wasn't that where the one cart driver hit a pole, or something like that? All I could see was the car stopped and a helmet (apparently thrown in frustration) rolling down the lot. I rode along for a couple of runs and everyone was losing the tail up there, mostly in a controlled manner.
I didn't see any karts run...I thought that they weren't going out until the afternoon group.
The back end, from a little past the slalom to the finish is all downhill which makes it easier to get yourself in trouble. The combination of speed being carried along with the amount of offset and distance between gates and the downhill grade made for a very tricky section. The more I've htought about it since running, the more impressed I am with it.
Jetfire
09-23-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Clyde@work
I didn't see any karts run...I thought that they weren't going out until the afternoon group.
The back end, from a little past the slalom to the finish is all downhill which makes it easier to get yourself in trouble. The combination of speed being carried along with the amount of offset and distance between gates and the downhill grade made for a very tricky section. The more I've htought about it since running, the more impressed I am with it.
Ah, that would explain it. Duh! It really was an excellent course, one that my novice mind is still chewing over.
The karts did indeed run in heat 4. I forgot that I stayed for a while during the afternoon session. Shame on me for not introducing you to the Salazar folks - totally blew my mind. :eeps:
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