Drove a Mazdaspeed6 and now I'm so torn...

[blueguydotcom]

Of all Japanese makes, to me, only Mazda comes close to BMW's roadfeel and driving dynamics. My 330i, while fun, hasn't exactly wowed me in the reliabilty area. Consequently, I'm actively looking for a non-BMW replacement (FWIW, the e90 is nice but it doesn't wow me like my ZHP). After driving most of the comp I'm left with the A3 2.0 (a package I like but wish was quattro), the GTI and Mazdaspeed6.

Saturday I took a 33k fully loaded Mazdapseed6 out for a test drive. Obviously, I'd avoid the navi system (I can't pay 2k for a device that's worthless), so in reality the car's 31k.

Visually, the Mazdaspeed6 is more aggressive than the standard Mazda6 but it's certainly nothing special. The rims are pretty dorky, the body cladding is not my bag either but I do like the hood scoop and ZHP-esque lip spoiler. In the end, the looks won't sell me or dissuade me.

As for the interior, the seats are decent but they're not nearly as supportive as my ZHP's. The steering wheel felt small. All 4 windows are auto up and auto down (small thing but I love this about my BMW). The car comes with Mazda's version of comfort access and like BMW the remote can trigger the windows down (I use this feature a good 60-70% of the time with my 330i). If you forget to put the windows up, you can close the door and just touch a little opaque spot on the handle, forcing the windows closed...cool but not a deal maker or breaker.

Anyway, the 6 speed's pretty sloppy. It's vague, notchy and reminds me of the unit in Infiniti's G35. In other words, it's awful. I'm not sure but Mazda may have put some kind of junk on the shifter - like fake plastic chrome. I recall it was hot to the touch.

Anyway, I fired up the 2.3 liter 4 cylinder image and...well, there's no fanfare. The engine makes no real noise. The exhaust is just as mute. Again, I reflect on how I love the little subtle grumble of my 330i ZHP.

I engage the clutch, try to find 1st and...dammit, 3rd. God this thing is not to my liking. And I complain about my BMW's shifter! Rolling forward I begin to let the clutch out. Boom. Holycrap this thing catches instantly. The clutch pickup feels far more honda than VW/Audi/BMW. for the rest of the drive I never quite got used to the clutch. Perhaps this would come in time.

Anyway, the clutch snaps and car's at 3k-3.5k-4k, 5k, 6k really fast. And smoothly. No rush. No excitement. But not as fulfilling as the Audi 2.0T. Weird. Lack of engine sound and the car's frantic gearing may play a roll in how blah the engine and the car's acceleration feels.

I can't say for certain but I think I had to hit 3rd to get to 60. I was in 4th by 80 and 6th way before 100. The car's burning mega-high RPM at 100 mph. Okay, so that 19/25 mpg sticker wasn't a joke. This car will get flat out horrid gas mileage. Does it require premium? Does it even matter when the stuff is either 2.80 or $3 a gallon? Regardless, I'd expect 16-17 mpg with this car (I average 22 mpg in my 330i with mixed driving but long trips net 31 mpg). This seems like a little thing until you do the math...I'd assume with premium I'd spend at least $500 more a year on gas (18 mpg/15000*$3). Compared to an A3 I predict a $600 difference - 2.5k in 4 years makes a difference.

Why do I assume such horrible gas mileage? The gearing. The darned car forces you into 6th really fast or you're running around with the little turbo 4 boiling at 4k+. At 50 mph I noticed in 3rd the Mazdaspeed's RPMs were over 4k rpm.

As the first corners approached i noticed the car felt floaty and understeered. What the heck had Mazda done? Were the tires overinflated? The car felt planted but it also just didn't want to turn. I admit I'm not a fan of AWD as it tends to make driving feel like a guessing game but this really threw me. I can't say with confidence the car handles better or worse than my 330i. I can only say the handling felt vegue and strange and unmazda-like. I need to drive it again - on a twistier road - to say definitively if this car doesn't do it for me in terms of handling.

The ride was compliant. Very compliant. And quiet. The lack of sound, the weird understeering and the soft ride certainly didn't call back memories of driving a WRX/Legacy GT. This is a more refined, subdued car. Unfortunately when pressed it still felt that way. Part of my ZHP's charm is the car's dual nature - beast one second, smooth, quiet freeway cruiser with a little burble from the exhaust to never let you forget the car wants to be shifted down to 3rd.

I figure given that this is a Mazda, by May/June, it's gonna sell for at least 2-3k below sticker. In fact, the dealer said Mazda will give buyers 2250 off the sticker if the person leases. One can buyout the lease at a $400 or so penalty. so really it's like a $1850 rebate. Weird, if you ask me. A brand new car and it's got a rebate? So, I figure as a Mazda the car will sell for under sticker soon.

So 29k for the Mazda. Of course, it's going to cost for maintenance and my gas expenses will be much higher. An A3 with sport, xenons, open sky and DSG is 30.5k or about 29k. But it gets great gas mileage and maintenance is free. Plus, honestly, the Mazda's gonna tank on resale (they all do), while the A3 will hold far better.

The e90 via ED is still in the back of my mind. It's more fun than either of those cars but sort of a let down compared to my e46.

[iateyourcheese]

Your title made me think you liked the car. Then I read your text... :eek:

I think the MS6 is interesting, but then I see how much weight they added in the process and it seems so :thumbdwn:.

[blueguydotcom]

Your title made me think you liked the car. Then I read your text... :eek:

I think the MS6 is interesting, but then I see how much weight they added in the process and it seems so :thumbdwn:.

The end result of my writing came off wrong. I did like it. Sort of. In the end I couldn't convince myself that the Mazdaspeed6 was a car I could live with daily.

Damn BMW - they've ruined me for life. I thought my college girlfriend f-ed me up but that girl doesn't have anything on how BMW has ruined cars for me.

[wag-zhp]

Damn BMW - they've ruined me for life. I thought my college girlfriend f-ed me up but that girl doesn't have anything on how BMW has ruined cars for me.
:rofl: :rofl:
Just face it, you're hooked! You will be a slave to BMW for life. Your only option right now is to buy or lease an e46 M3 and then wait for the 335 or e90 M3. You know that you are a horsepower junky, but you also love the sublime handling that only a BMW can provide. Since an Elise or S2000 don't offer enough seating capacity, the M3 is the closest you are going to get. The truth sucks sometimes, but having an M3 would sure take the edge off. :D

[iateyourcheese]

My wife's little SUV can kick the crap out of my 330i in a straight line, but I still love my car. The steering, the exhaust note, the driver-oriented dash (it's my car, damnit, get your hands off the radio), etc. It all adds up. Of course, it all adds up in the price, too.

[blueguydotcom]

:rofl: :rofl:
Just face it, you're hooked! You will be a slave to BMW for life. Your only option right now is to buy or lease an e46 M3 and then wait for the 335 or e90 M3. You know that you are a horsepower junky, but you also love the sublime handling that only a BMW can provide. Since an Elise or S2000 don't offer enough seating capacity, the M3 is the closest you are going to get. The truth sucks sometimes, but having an M3 would sure take the edge off. :D

Someone suggested just buying my e46. Maybe I will see about getting it made into a certified pre-owned. Shrug.

[philippek]

My wife's little SUV can kick the crap out of my 330i in a straight line,

Um, is her "little SUV" a Cayenne :dunno:

[iateyourcheese]

No, it's a turbo charged Subaru, the Forester XT. C/D got it from 0 - 60 in 5.3s.

The force-fed flat-four's combination of torque, gearing, and weight will get you a blazing 0-to-60 time of 5.3 seconds and a quarter-mile of 13.8 seconds at 97 mph, just 0.3 second slower than an $89,665 Porsche Cayenne Turbo (see page 62).

The car has so much power available, it's ridiculous.

But the steering is so awful!

[hawk2100n]

Mabey someone should should orgaize the ultimate sleeper contest between the Subie and that little brazillian midget car, the Obvio 828!!! Im putting my money on the Subie.

[racerdave]

Go back and drive the Spec B Legacy GT. The Bilsteins and 18-inch wheels should solve a number of your beefs with it.

[blueguydotcom]

Go back and drive the Spec B Legacy GT. The Bilsteins and 18-inch wheels should solve a number of your beefs with it.

don't think so.

Positives of the Legacy:

Powerful engine.
Bulletproof reliability

Negatives of the Legacy:

Subpar interior materials
Bad ergonomics
Lousy gearing
Wretched gas mileage
No xenon headlights
Loud, unrefined, vibrating engine
Shoddy transmission that's missing a gear

The legacy GT 2.5 was off my list right after driving it. Giving it a tighter suspension and bigger wheels will only improve handling. It won't help the myriad of ways the Legacy fails in my eyes. In my opinion, it doesn't belong in the same class as anything entry lux.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[racerdave]

No prob... of the negatives, I'd say I don't find the engine to be too loud. And FWIW, I consistently get 24 mpg in mixed driving.

I have some minor beefs with some of the other negatives, but there's some truth in them too.

But the bottom line is: Why does finding the *perfect* car have to be so damn hard?!? :D I still haven't found it yet either... too many variables, a few of which can instantly send a car to the proverbial sh!t heap.

[sunilsf]

okay, well this fits alot of your criteria: 4 doors, rwd, torque (lots), handling...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=103035?tid=edmunds.h..insideline.promo.1 g.*

time for a second mortgage? :D

[AF]

I was expecting a better review but maybe a second test drive is in order. When I first test drove the rx8 I remember I was so used to the torquey engine in the 330i at the time it made the 8's engine feel flat and slow to rev. I couldn't imagine how anyone thought it was fun. Then I lived with one for 3 days and by day 3 I was sold.


How did the mazdaspeed6 compare to a regular 6 ?

My Mazda6 could use a better shifting transmission and a tighter suspension otherwise overall the car is a lot of fun and the engine makes a pretty load roar when revving it out. In fact the car feels very light on it's feet and unrefined in a good way.

[AF]

Go back and drive the Spec B Legacy GT. The Bilsteins and 18-inch wheels should solve a number of your beefs with it.
I would think the Legacy would be a great choice as well ... I still love that car, the Spec B has got to be great, have you driven one yet ?

One thing I don't like about wheel size upgrading is it takes away a little of the off the line feel if the 18's are heavier than the 17's I remember that the ZHP with 18's felt slower off the line than my 330i SP with 17's and given the big weight difference it was obviously the heavier wheels.

[Jeff_DML]

don't think so.

Positives of the Legacy:

Powerful engine.
Bulletproof reliability

Negatives of the Legacy:

Subpar interior materials
Bad ergonomics
Lousy gearing
Wretched gas mileage
No xenon headlights
Loud, unrefined, vibrating engine
Shoddy transmission that's missing a gear

The legacy GT 2.5 was off my list right after driving it. Giving it a tighter suspension and bigger wheels will only improve handling. It won't help the myriad of ways the Legacy fails in my eyes. In my opinion, it doesn't belong in the same class as anything entry lux.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

what is wrong with the gearing minus the missing gear?

[ed325i]

I would think the Legacy would be a great choice as well ... I still love that car, the Spec B has got to be great, have you driven one yet ?...

Is Spec B here already?

Ed

[blueguydotcom]

what is wrong with the gearing minus the missing gear?

The car desperately needs a 6th gear and it needs to have the gearing spaced correctly. It seems like only BMW and - can't believe I'm writing this - GM are doing this correctly lately. A manual should have a cruising gear. There's something very, very wrong when a Vette can get 30 mpg on the freeway and a scoobie or Mazda with a 4 cylinder can't do the same.

[blueguydotcom]

I was expecting a better review but maybe a second test drive is in order. When I first test drove the rx8 I remember I was so used to the torquey engine in the 330i at the time it made the 8's engine feel flat and slow to rev. I couldn't imagine how anyone thought it was fun. Then I lived with one for 3 days and by day 3 I was sold.



As I've stated before I was quite confused after driving the car. It seemed like Mazda removed the fun quotient from the model. They took a 6, which I found enjoyable and tossable and somehow deadened it to the point where I just found the car frustratingly boring.


My Mazda6 could use a better shifting transmission and a tighter suspension otherwise overall the car is a lot of fun and the engine makes a pretty load roar when revving it out. In fact the car feels very light on it's feet and unrefined in a good way.

Exactly! That's how my Protege felt. And all of our miatas. And my friend's Mazda3. Mazdas have always seemed dialed-in - as if their Mazda DNA gave you a intimate feeling of connectedness to the road. The Mazdaspeed6 lacked that nimble, fun, connected, flingable feel. It felt solid, planted, demure, quiet, and removed...more Lexus than Mazda or BMW.

I definitely need to drive it again.

[Jeff_DML]

Is Spec B here already?

Ed

yep, on the lots here in San Diego

[Test_Engineer]

After reading all of this.....it seems to me that a new 330i, or keeping your ZHP is your best choice! :dunno:

The problem is, you want to "fill the void" after selling the BMW with another car.....well, to be honest, EVERY car manufacturer has tried to do the same exact thing, but they fail every time.... that is what makes BMW's so special...everyone wants to copy what they have done, but NEVER succeed. :thumbup:

[jason330i]

After driving most of the comp I'm left with the A3 2.0 (a package I like but wish was quattro)

A3 3.2 with quattro® Ready for North America

Auto Shows

A sensation in Europe, the A3 debuted in North America earlier this year with a 2.0 T FSI® engine, receiving accolades from critics and drivers alike. Now, A3 fans have yet another superb choice: the 3.2 A3, which features a V6 complete with Audi's direct shift gearbox transmission voted All Star Technology by AUTOMOBILE Magazine, DSG®. Legendary quattro® all-wheel drive is also on hand to provide optimum power and control.

The Audi A3 3.2 shares the impeccably sporty exterior styling of the 2.0 T FSI model with a few differences, including standard-equipped roof spoiler and fog lights (optional items on the 2.0 T FSI). Inside, drivers and passengers will enjoy the same luxurious amenities in both models, with the primary difference being that many options on the earlier model are now standard-equipped on the 3.2 - including sport seats and aluminum trim. Both models feature superb utility, including a cargo area boasting a full 35.4 cubic feet (1032 litres) with the rear seat folded, making the Audi A3 ideal for either a downtown shopping marathon or a road trip complete with sports equipment.

Some of the most striking features of the A3 are its unique options, which remain available on both models. Chief among them is the innovative Open Sky System, which allows for panoramic views from all seats. On the technology front, both models are available with Bluetooth® phone preparation and DVD-based Audi Navigation plus, which in the 3.2 includes a state-of-the-art Bose® sound system.

The Audi A3 3.2 will be available in early 2006. You can have all the latest news - which will include more product details and a sweepstakes offered by Armani Exchange - delivered directly to your inbox by signing up for Audi News at the link below. And to schedule a test drive as soon as the A3 3.2 becomes available in your area, contact your local Audi dealer.

The Audi A3. More than what's new, it's what's next.

:thumbup:

[blueguydotcom]

A3 3.2 with quattro® Ready for North America

Auto Shows

A sensation in Europe, the A3 debuted in North America earlier this year with a 2.0 T FSI® engine, receiving accolades from critics and drivers alike. Now, A3 fans have yet another superb choice: the 3.2 A3, which features a V6 complete with Audi's direct shift gearbox transmission voted All Star Technology by AUTOMOBILE Magazine, DSG®. Legendary quattro® all-wheel drive is also on hand to provide optimum power and control.

The Audi A3 3.2 shares the impeccably sporty exterior styling of the 2.0 T FSI model with a few differences, including standard-equipped roof spoiler and fog lights (optional items on the 2.0 T FSI). Inside, drivers and passengers will enjoy the same luxurious amenities in both models, with the primary difference being that many options on the earlier model are now standard-equipped on the 3.2 - including sport seats and aluminum trim. Both models feature superb utility, including a cargo area boasting a full 35.4 cubic feet (1032 litres) with the rear seat folded, making the Audi A3 ideal for either a downtown shopping marathon or a road trip complete with sports equipment.

Some of the most striking features of the A3 are its unique options, which remain available on both models. Chief among them is the innovative Open Sky System, which allows for panoramic views from all seats. On the technology front, both models are available with Bluetooth® phone preparation and DVD-based Audi Navigation plus, which in the 3.2 includes a state-of-the-art Bose® sound system.

The Audi A3 3.2 will be available in early 2006. You can have all the latest news - which will include more product details and a sweepstakes offered by Armani Exchange - delivered directly to your inbox by signing up for Audi News at the link below. And to schedule a test drive as soon as the A3 3.2 becomes available in your area, contact your local Audi dealer.

The Audi A3. More than what's new, it's what's next.

:thumbup:

A3 2.0T Quattro would be fantastic but Audi's trying to bilk people with the A3 3.2 as the only Quattro model. Unfortunately, the 3.2 is overpriced and way underdelivers. The engine's heavier and less powerful than a chipped 2.0. Plus with just xenons and moonroof the car's price jumps to 37k.

Might as well get an e90 then (it's cheaper and a better handling/driving car).

[Optimus Prime]

How did the mazdaspeed6 compare to a regular 6 ?

My Mazda6 could use a better shifting transmission and a tighter suspension otherwise overall the car is a lot of fun and the engine makes a pretty load roar when revving it out. In fact the car feels very light on it's feet and unrefined in a good way.

:stupid:

[Desertnate]

yep, on the lots here in San Diego

Weren't only 500 Spec B's produced for the US market?

I would be all over the Legecy GT if they would only bring the manual back to the wagon. The day they pulled the manual from the wagon was the day I went from a definate customer to only an outside chance...

[Jeff_DML]

Weren't only 500 Spec B's produced for the US market?

I would be all over the Legecy GT if they would only bring the manual back to the wagon. The day they pulled the manual from the wagon was the day I went from a definate customer to only an outside chance...

yep. Sorry, my original statement was a bit misleading :tsk: they are on a dealer lot in san diego, maybe it is only one though :D

Edit:

yeah no wagon :mad: also they loaded up the spec b with pretty much every option, they should of offered the suspension/wheels as a standalone option unless they had more performance upgrades, i.e. STi 6 speed and more hp

[stangmatt66]

As a current Mazda owner ('04 RX-8) I will say that Mazda makes some great cars, however, their dealership experience is HORRENDOUS and will forever keep me from buying another Mazda!

My car has repeatedly been kept overnight for a lack of parts on premesis, some dealerships lack proper diagnostic equipment for new models (took my dealer 3 months to get the software for the RX-8), service advisors are oftentimes rude and never return a phone call or call to tell you your car is done.

Also, nearly everytime I've taken my RX-8 in for a repair to the interior, it has come back with some other interior piece broken. I've tried all three Mazda dealers in my area and can't find one that is better than the other. They're all terrible!

Before my Mazda I owned a VW Golf 1.8t which I always had serviced at a local VW/Audi dealership and everytime I go to Mazda I miss the amazing service I used to recieve from VW. The only good thing I can say is that Mazda has never denied me a rental or loaner, even for just routine service.

[ed325i]

Here's another review of the MazdaSpeed 6

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/06mazdaspeed6.htm

0-100 KPH in 5.5 seconds

Ed

[blueguydotcom]

Before my Mazda I owned a VW Golf 1.8t which I always had serviced at a local VW/Audi dealership and everytime I go to Mazda I miss the amazing service I used to recieve from VW. The only good thing I can say is that Mazda has never denied me a rental or loaner, even for just routine service.

I have the same anecdotes but it's about VW. my protege never went in for service. it was the best car i've ever owned bar none.