M5: 2006 SMG or 2007 6-speed

[BMW Fahrer]

I'm conducting a survey here to see what everyone thinks about ordering an M5. I've been wanting a new M5 since I saw the first one roll into the local dealer last month. However, I'm divided between an '06 with the SMG or wait for the '07 with the 6-speed manual. Interestingly, the 6-speed has a longer wait list at a dealer. Seems that there are many die hards who still want to wrap their palms around a shifter knob while driving.

I've driven the M3 with an SMG at the BMW Nuerburgring school and agree that this setup is great for the track and eliminates missed gears for the wanna be Speedracers. On the other hand, the Gen 2 SMG causes serious whiplash at the track under the fastest shifting conditions. I sense that the M5's new SMG will shift differently and softer from the M3's SMG due to the weight of the vehicle an a few extra gears at the top end.

Question:
Would you buy the M5 with an SMG gearbox like the Bavarians intended from Day 1, or would you opt for the 6-speed version for us sporty Americans?

:dunno:
****

[bavarian19]

As a current manual driver and manual enthusiast (I guess), I would say I would want the 6 speed. The M5 to me is a great car on the road, but I dont think I would take it around the track. I enjoy rowing through the gears too much myself to let that go. If this were an M3 on the other hand, I would probably take it to the track occasionally. Being as that is the case, I would probably take the SMG.


Now, if the car were to be tracked or autocrossed regularly, I would without a doubt go with SMG (as long as it is on the M-models and not the SSG previously offered on non-M E46's). If it was a car to go around town, I would probably go with the 6 speed.

[Bruce]

I have not driven a car with SMG.....but....I would lean towards the SMG.

[philippek]

From all reports the 6 speed will be an inferior product from a performance standpoint. So as much as it would pain me to do so, I'd probably go with the SMG.

[E60orBust]

I thought the whole point to the 7-speed SMG was to better utilize the 383lb-ft torque?

Even with two more cylinders and 100 or so more HP, wouldn't dropping down to a 6-speed defeat that power purpose?

[KevinM]

My opinion is possibly changing. I am a manual fanatic; every BMW I haved owned (3 so far) has been a manual. I was not happy that at first there was no true manual option on the E60 M5 and then very happy when it was clear there would be.

Since then I have been reading the impressions of the owners. The torque down low is seemingly not as much as in the E39 M5 and the engine needs and wants to be revved high to enjoy the amazing power band. Plus, the 7-speed SMG transmission was designed for this engine. So...

I am not in a hurry and based on BMW's reputation for getting the bugs out and doing a minor facelift during year 3 of production, I will await the first 6-speeds to arrive before making a decision. But I must confess, I am amazed I am even considering the SMG!

[Garo666]

I would probably go with the SMG, i have a 545 with smg and its the coolest thing. but if u dont want to be lazy and u wana use the clutch go for it , but were i live , in cali, the trafic can get prety bad and i dont want to keep shifting gears, so when there is trafic i use the auto feature and when there is an open road or when i just want some thrill i would just use the smg. judging by the performance of the smg on my 545, which is great, i cant wait to try the m5 in smg i think itl beeee increeeedible. so my answer is get the smg you wont regret it. :thumbup:

[Tanin]

I am amazed I am even considering the SMG!

Almost makes you nauseous, doesn’t it? I’m 12-15 months from making a purchase so I took comfort in the idea of waiting for the manual transmission. Unfortunately, the more info I read taints me toward the SMG (I’m disappointed in myself for typing that last line)

In the end though, I may consider giving up a slight performance edge for the overall driving experience rewarded with a manual transmission.

[Jeff_DML]

I am another die-hard manual but in the M5 I would be tempted to go SMG since it was designed for the car from the get go. The manual they are going to offer seems to be a kludge to appease american drivers :yikes:

latest C&D ripped on the new SMG, gave it a big :thumbdwn: But they seemed all messed up, called it 2nd gen SMG(guess for US it is), and said the manual was offered because they where not confident with the SMG or something like that :rolleyes:

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

FWIW, the SMG unit is a close ratio transmission. 7th gear on the SMG unit, and 6th gear on the manual will be the same.

[ky_soldier]

my take is this - very high performance vehicles like a 911 turbo, M5, etc are wonderful and fun in a manual version, but realistically, we humans cant shift fast enough to make the performance what it was intended to be, hence the SMG type transmissions. For me the decision was this, my wife likes manuals but has gotten to the point where it's more convenient to drive an auto vs a manual with the baby, phone, radio, etc. So I am opting for the SMG. Hopefully I can get the best of both worlds. We'll see.

[Drew1967]

I am facing the very same question:yikes: I am first on the list for the 2007 orders and have until the end of the year on my current lease, so timing isn't an isssue. I have to imagine that a 6-Speed is just more fun -- even if I lose .10 secs. Has anyone had any official confirmation that the '07 will indeed be offerred with a manual?

I have read a bunch of different reviews and nobody is fully in love with the SMG and its performance. However, I also read that the reason there was no manual to start was because of design reasons.

Obviously, I am still torn:mad: I would love any input:bigpimp:

[ky_soldier]

I don't know if I love the SMG as much as I love the paddle shifting, and this coming from a manual guy. can't wait to see the new paddles on the 335 like the new z4's have

[760Lifan]

I (obviously:D ) got SMG and I can only recommend it...:thumbup:
It's great to have the opportunity to drive this beast in Automatic as well.

[Reefminis]

I had an M3 w/SMG before my M5..........there is no comparison. The SMG III (M5) is so much better than SMG II (M3) its unbelievable.

Go SMG..........the way BMW M GmbH intended.

[gbelton]

SMG!

Don't be a silly Wabbit. 6MT was not made for this V10, 8500rpm, 7-Speed (Natively), 501HP Beast.

GMAN

[silverstone]

I own an E39 M5 and an E60 M5.

There is something more organic about communitcating with your car with a manual transmission. The E39 feels like it has more torque at lower RPMs and there is something about a clutch that is beautiful and raw. It is in many ways a more satisfying drive.

The paddles on the E60 are like using a videogame controller-- you push a button to change gears. There is obviously no clutch and I personally feel it is a less engaging way to access the 500hp engine. I only use auto mode when I am on the phone or in stop-and-go traffic because it blows. It really sucks to be in limbo mode between 1st and second gear. In the higher gear shifts it is relatively seamless.

On the more positive side of things; SMG shifts are cleaner, quicker, easier and downshifts sound fantastic! The car feels like it was meant for this transmission, period. When you drive the car you will know what I mean. You get used to the paddles and I would have to say that after driving the E60 for a couple of weeks now, a stick would feel out of place bigtime-- it's not right for the car regardless of how awesome it would be to control the V-10 directly. It would be like mating an atari joystick to a playstation two.

My great respect for the M division gave me no qualms about buying the SMG. They love what they make and they made the E60 M5 for SMG only, just like they made the E39 for a stick. They're the artists who created this gorgeous beast, I say go with the SMG.

[hash]

It would be like mating an atari joystick to a playstation two.

nice one here.. well being an owner of E39 and E60 M5 means you know ur stuff :thumbup:

anyways if i were to get an M5 i'll go for the SMG, but for the M Coupe i'm really glad they offer a manual :D

[DJ_INHALE]

I would like to get the m3 down the road some where but the new m3 I guess could be SMG only :( I love the foot action and my right hand. This could be my last bmw if the M isnt aval in a convertible with a 6 speed

[wolverine]

I own an E39 M5 and an E60 M5.

There is something more organic about communitcating with your car with a manual transmission. The E39 feels like it has more torque at lower RPMs and there is something about a clutch that is beautiful and raw. It is in many ways a more satisfying drive.

The paddles on the E60 are like using a videogame controller-- you push a button to change gears. There is obviously no clutch and I personally feel it is a less engaging way to access the 500hp engine. I only use auto mode when I am on the phone or in stop-and-go traffic because it blows. It really sucks to be in limbo mode between 1st and second gear. In the higher gear shifts it is relatively seamless.

On the more positive side of things; SMG shifts are cleaner, quicker, easier and downshifts sound fantastic! The car feels like it was meant for this transmission, period. When you drive the car you will know what I mean. You get used to the paddles and I would have to say that after driving the E60 for a couple of weeks now, a stick would feel out of place bigtime-- it's not right for the car regardless of how awesome it would be to control the V-10 directly. It would be like mating an atari joystick to a playstation two.

My great respect for the M division gave me no qualms about buying the SMG. They love what they make and they made the E60 M5 for SMG only, just like they made the E39 for a stick. They're the artists who created this gorgeous beast, I say go with the SMG.


I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I have almost 20,000 miles on my E60 M5 now, and I have to say there is no way I would want a manual in this car. I'll also say I was one of the biggest critics of the SMGII (had driven and tracked exclusively manuals for 20 years) before I got this car. I can also say that it took me a good 10,000 miles to get to the point where the SMG became second nature.

Have you gotten out of the 'break-in' period yet? If you haven't, you are in for one hell of a surprise!

[firstm5]

The more miles I drive (nearly 4,000) the more the SMGIII becomes second nature and the more addictive it becomes. However, launch control would be nice!

[zeagle3]

I agree with the consensus. I was going to wait as well for 6 speed but took delivery on the M5 SMG last week and I am in love. My M settings are in and I am sure I will never look back .:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Jerry Dunton]

The SMG is fabulous....

I now have 7 months in my beast and now 10,000 miles and I have to say that it is a technological marvel that gives me a kick every mile. It just doesn't get any better and you really have to spend some time with this vehicle to fully appreciate the many benifits and performance advantages.

Jerry

[chuck92103]

The manual is the only tranny to give you full excitement and thrill. However, only 6 gears instead of 7.

The SMG is a great tranny but say goodbye to revving at the lights, disengaging the clutch easily, etc.

Tough call, but I would opt for the SMG.

[LoneStarM3]

Had the SMG (in M3) for about 8 months now and I wouldn't take for it!
I had the same concern before ordering, but after using it a while I like it better every time I drive it.

It takes a while to get a SMG habit pattern, i.e., where downshifts seem natural etc -
but it is quick and a blast....

[kimchimofo]

Seeing the 2007 M5's come out with a manual transmission is like seeing people actually buy M6's. What's the point? But I guess old habits die hard.

In the case of the M6, if I wanted a BMW coupe with no legroom in the back, I'd get an M3 rather than packing on the extra pounds of a bloated 6 chassis. Sure the M6 will smoke my "old" M3 off the line, but ahhh the handling of the M3, surgical ... and if you want more powerful coupe, then just wait for the new M3 ... I'm sure it'll smoke too. In other words, if you want a big car the M5 just makes sense. (Sorry y'all have to listen to me ... I saw 3 M6's today in San Francisco and I can't just walk up to the owners and start cr*! with them so you get to hear my gripes). Oh, and I think my M3 even had more room in the backseat than the M6.

In the case of the manual transmission, I've had my Interlagos Blue Metallic M5 for a few months now and can honestly say that neither I nor anyone I know work a manual transmission faster. Sure, I'm no pro, but I have friends who are and my blue beasty has made a believer out of all of them. I've been driving a manual transmission for 15+ years and I can relate ... I was reluctant at first too. And it's not like the dealers let you hammer the transmission on a test drive the cars beforehand. So, find a friend with one and have him/her take you for a ride. You'll know right away. Besides, the car accelerates so quickly that I'd feel safer knowing that all you maniacs around me have both hands on the wheel :)

... And if having a clutch pedal is so superior, then why have Ferrari and the F1 cars all moved over? Don't you think it's in their interest to pack the best performance into their cars too?

Sure the last gen SMG that they put in the e46 m3 wasn't a superb transmission as is the one in the M5. But it wasn't built from the ground up for the engine either ... I read the SMG controller was just a bolt-on to the existing manual transmission platform. Besides this, do you think that BMW put as much engineering into this new 6-speed as they did into the SMG? Where's the transmission coming from anyway? I even believe that, albeit not very graceful, the e46's SMG still shifted faster than humanly possible. I may be wrong. Go try and race one sometime and let me know.

I'm delighted with my SMG. If transmissions keep getting better like this, then I'll probably never go back to a clutch pedal. Oh, and I think I've only used the D program twice. I'm still a shifter. And, if those of you are wondering about the 2005 M3 in my profile ... It's a manual.

[760Lifan]

Seeing the 2007 M5's come out with a manual transmission is like seeing people actually buy M6's. What's the point? But I guess old habits die hard.

In the case of the M6, if I wanted a BMW coupe with no legroom in the back, I'd get an M3 rather than packing on the extra pounds of a bloated 6 chassis. Sure the M6 will smoke my "old" M3 off the line, but ahhh the handling of the M3, surgical ... and if you want more powerful coupe, then just wait for the new M3 ... I'm sure it'll smoke too. In other words, if you want a big car the M5 just makes sense. (Sorry y'all have to listen to me ... I saw 3 M6's today in San Francisco and I can't just walk up to the owners and start cr*! with them so you get to hear my gripes). Oh, and I think my M3 even had more room in the backseat than the M6.

In the case of the manual transmission, I've had my Interlagos Blue Metallic M5 for a few months now and can honestly say that neither I nor anyone I know work a manual transmission faster. Sure, I'm no pro, but I have friends who are and my blue beasty has made a believer out of all of them. I've been driving a manual transmission for 15+ years and I can relate ... I was reluctant at first too. And it's not like the dealers let you hammer the transmission on a test drive the cars beforehand. So, find a friend with one and have him/her take you for a ride. You'll know right away. Besides, the car accelerates so quickly that I'd feel safer knowing that all you maniacs around me have both hands on the wheel :)

... And if having a clutch pedal is so superior, then why have Ferrari and the F1 cars all moved over? Don't you think it's in their interest to pack the best performance into their cars too?

Sure the last gen SMG that they put in the e46 m3 wasn't a superb transmission as is the one in the M5. But it wasn't built from the ground up for the engine either ... I read the SMG controller was just a bolt-on to the existing manual transmission platform. Besides this, do you think that BMW put as much engineering into this new 6-speed as they did into the SMG? Where's the transmission coming from anyway? I even believe that, albeit not very graceful, the e46's SMG still shifted faster than humanly possible. I may be wrong. Go try and race one sometime and let me know.

I'm delighted with my SMG. If transmissions keep getting better like this, then I'll probably never go back to a clutch pedal. Oh, and I think I've only used the D program twice. I'm still a shifter. And, if those of you are wondering about the 2005 M3 in my profile ... It's a manual.
I totally agree...:thumbup:

[Stuka]

I'm conducting a survey here to see what everyone thinks about ordering an M5. I've been wanting a new M5 since I saw the first one roll into the local dealer last month. However, I'm divided between an '06 with the SMG or wait for the '07 with the 6-speed manual. Interestingly, the 6-speed has a longer wait list at a dealer. Seems that there are many die hards who still want to wrap their palms around a shifter knob while driving.

Both our GT2 and E30 are stick shift, but if the GT2 had come with an SMG option, I would not hesitate to get it.

I had a great time with the E46 M3 SMG before the car got crashed and totalled by the dealer, and if SMG II was any indication, the SMG III in the M5 is most certainly a good tranny.

[wolverine]

Seeing the 2007 M5's come out with a manual transmission is like seeing people actually buy M6's. What's the point? But I guess old habits die hard.

In the case of the M6, if I wanted a BMW coupe with no legroom in the back, I'd get an M3 rather than packing on the extra pounds of a bloated 6 chassis. Sure the M6 will smoke my "old" M3 off the line, but ahhh the handling of the M3, surgical ... and if you want more powerful coupe, then just wait for the new M3 ... I'm sure it'll smoke too. In other words, if you want a big car the M5 just makes sense. (Sorry y'all have to listen to me ... I saw 3 M6's today in San Francisco and I can't just walk up to the owners and start cr*! with them so you get to hear my gripes). Oh, and I think my M3 even had more room in the backseat than the M6.

In the case of the manual transmission, I've had my Interlagos Blue Metallic M5 for a few months now and can honestly say that neither I nor anyone I know work a manual transmission faster. Sure, I'm no pro, but I have friends who are and my blue beasty has made a believer out of all of them. I've been driving a manual transmission for 15+ years and I can relate ... I was reluctant at first too. And it's not like the dealers let you hammer the transmission on a test drive the cars beforehand. So, find a friend with one and have him/her take you for a ride. You'll know right away. Besides, the car accelerates so quickly that I'd feel safer knowing that all you maniacs around me have both hands on the wheel :)

... And if having a clutch pedal is so superior, then why have Ferrari and the F1 cars all moved over? Don't you think it's in their interest to pack the best performance into their cars too?

Sure the last gen SMG that they put in the e46 m3 wasn't a superb transmission as is the one in the M5. But it wasn't built from the ground up for the engine either ... I read the SMG controller was just a bolt-on to the existing manual transmission platform. Besides this, do you think that BMW put as much engineering into this new 6-speed as they did into the SMG? Where's the transmission coming from anyway? I even believe that, albeit not very graceful, the e46's SMG still shifted faster than humanly possible. I may be wrong. Go try and race one sometime and let me know.

I'm delighted with my SMG. If transmissions keep getting better like this, then I'll probably never go back to a clutch pedal. Oh, and I think I've only used the D program twice. I'm still a shifter. And, if those of you are wondering about the 2005 M3 in my profile ... It's a manual.

Almost 25,000 miles on my M5, manual transmission afficionado, moved from the M5 list to the M6, then back to the M5. I absolutely agree with everything you say, about the M6, M3, M5, and SMG. Good points.

In addition, the rumour is that the 6sp M5 will not allow you to turn off DSC! If this is true, there are going to be a lot of really pissed off people who have waited for the 6sp M5.

[wolverine]

Deleted duplicate post

[sdbrandon]

When folks continue to compare an M5/6 to an M3, it just really shows their ignorance and lack of understanding.

You cannot compare a consumer level track car to high performance luxury sedans and coupes. They are destined for totally different markets/customers.

Not sure why there is so much hatred towards those with M5/6's. I am sure there is some jealousy and income levels that must be dealt with. :dunno:

The good news is, if you don't want an M5/6, you don't have to buy one. But please, don't bore us with rediculous comparisons. :tsk:

[kimchimofo]

It also seems the HUD might be a bit awkward with a manual instead of an SMG, at least if you use the M mode (which I also wish had shift level, dsc, and power mode icons).

Yep, SMG with DSC off, now that is an insane experience huh!! :) Roast tires in 2nd at 60, and chirp going into 3rd. Sadly, some roads out here in SF are so bad and the power in the M5 is so magnificent that when I turn off the DSC the tires never truly grip under heavy acceleration. MDM does fine under these circumstances, but DSC-off feels so much more direct that I turn it off whenever road conditions allow. So, this will be a missed feature if it's, indeed, true that it won't be present in the manual versions of the car.

Like a previous reader had commented, I think I had also read that BMW acknowledged that the performance of the M5/M6's will be diminished with the manual transmission, and they are mainly taking the action to placate US consumers. At about the same time I had read that BMW was planning to only release e90 M's in a SMG. At the time I was disappointed. That is, until I took delivery of my e60 M5.

I bet the manuals will still be insanely pleasurable though!! It's an M after all.

[fboros]

Traded my e36 M3 for the e60 M5. I can't say that I don't miss the footpedal( I know because there's an involuntary movement in my left leg at redline), but this car is married at a very deep level to the SMG.

[kimchimofo]

Yeah I drove a manual with a clutch pedal the other day too ... and I did kind of miss it actually. It's been a while since I'd driven one too.

Under hard acceleration in the M5 I'm glad I have the SMG. I'm thinking about getting a 2007 GT3 when they come out though, and they are only offered in pure Manual this year, so it'll be interesting to see which one I ultimately prefer.

I'm quite happy still with the SMG in the M5 though, and think I'd order it again if I was getting another one. Though I do love the Interlagos Blue, I think I'd probably get a dark grey if they made one. They have silver gray but I'm looking for something between that and Black. Looks like Stratus Gray will be released for the M6 for 2007, but I didn't see it on the list for the M5.

fboros, have you gotten it past the break-in yet? What do you think?

[wolverine]

I own an E39 M5 and an E60 M5.

There is something more organic about communitcating with your car with a manual transmission. The E39 feels like it has more torque at lower RPMs and there is something about a clutch that is beautiful and raw. It is in many ways a more satisfying drive.

The paddles on the E60 are like using a videogame controller-- you push a button to change gears. There is obviously no clutch and I personally feel it is a less engaging way to access the 500hp engine. I only use auto mode when I am on the phone or in stop-and-go traffic because it blows. It really sucks to be in limbo mode between 1st and second gear. In the higher gear shifts it is relatively seamless.

On the more positive side of things; SMG shifts are cleaner, quicker, easier and downshifts sound fantastic! The car feels like it was meant for this transmission, period. When you drive the car you will know what I mean. You get used to the paddles and I would have to say that after driving the E60 for a couple of weeks now, a stick would feel out of place bigtime-- it's not right for the car regardless of how awesome it would be to control the V-10 directly. It would be like mating an atari joystick to a playstation two.

My great respect for the M division gave me no qualms about buying the SMG. They love what they make and they made the E60 M5 for SMG only, just like they made the E39 for a stick. They're the artists who created this gorgeous beast, I say go with the SMG.


Well, I've got 25,000 miles now, and I'm getting my clutch and tranny replaced. The car stranded me in the middle of a 6 lane road on a Saturday night. I've driven manual tranny german cars for over 25 years, and until now, I've never had one single problem with the transmission.

Well, I love the SMG. That's saying a lot, since it stranded me for 2 hours on a Saturday night, and I won't have my car back for a week or so. You probably were expecting a rant, but I have to say that after about 25,000 miles in the M5, I wouldn't take anything else.

When I first got my M5, I test drove a 997S on some very twisty roads, then took the same route in the M5. I was very dissapointed in the M5 in terms of the 'connection to the road'. Two weeks ago I took the same test drive in a Cayman, and my modified (H&R springs and spacers) M5.

I was astounded at how much faster I was in the M5. I was hitting 75 mph in the Cayman in spots I was over 100 mph in the M5. I kept tapping the non-existant paddles on the Cayman to shift - I had gotten used to the effortless shifting of the M5. The end result was that I had more fun in the M5, because I could really thow the car around, and didn't have to worry as much about heel and toe braking and rev matching.

So, the SMG has it's problems, and will shortly be replaced with a DSG type tranny for smoothness (the SMG is awful in that respect). But paddle shifting is here to stay, and once you warm up to it, you can concentrate more on what the car is doing on the road, as opposed to what your feet are doing on the pedals. A big two thumbs up from a manual diehard!