View Full Version : E46 M3 rear brakes on a 323...............
what's involved? parts etc.....
(btw: Dan do your job, what's with all the OT posts? :mad: :banghead: :flipoff: )
Screw M3 brakes. You want X5 4.6is brakes. Have you seen the size of those suckers? :bigpimp:
What I need to find is a good rear big brake kit. ECIS/Porsche hybrid are my only choice so far and there's no way in hell I'm going to put a Porche logo on my BMW.
Raffi
09-18-2002, 11:02 PM
Since you seem to have considered the ECIS kit, won't Brembos fit? Otherwise, for the M3 conversion, I would think that changing the caliper carrier, calipers and rotors should do the trick. I don't have the BMW parts CD, maybe someone who has it can help you further. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
The only front and rear matched brake kits I can think of are UUC and Movit.
All I want are someone's stock 330 castoffs. :D
Originally posted by Raffi
Since you seem to have considered the ECIS kit, won't Brembos fit? Otherwise, for the M3 conversion, I would think that changing the caliper carrier, calipers and rotors should do the trick. I don't have the BMW parts CD, maybe someone who has it can help you further. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
Brembo doesn't make a rear brake kit for E46s. Brembo does make a caliper upgrade for the M3 however.
The HACK
09-19-2002, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Clem
Brembo doesn't make a rear brake kit for E46s. Brembo does make a caliper upgrade for the M3 however.
They don't make a SEPERATE kit for the rears but you CAN put the fronts on the rears...Why I don't know.
The M3 rear brake parts are as follows:
The HACK
09-19-2002, 08:54 AM
Brake discs and vent shield. I don't know if you need to buy a new vent shield, most likely not.
The HACK
09-19-2002, 08:54 AM
Doesn't AC Schnitzer offer some sort of big brake kit Clem? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Not big enough. :eek: :eek:
If you put the front M3 brakes on the rear. What happens to the park brake?
The HACK
09-19-2002, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Clem
Not big enough. :eek: :eek:
If you put the front M3 brakes on the rear. What happens to the park brake?
You can't.
The caliper carriers don't fit. You will need to custom fabricate the carrier AND custom fabricate a new set of rotors.
By the way, the hub on the rotors act as the drum in the rear drum parking brakes.
DAMMIT, Someone want to help me petition Brembo for a rear big brake kit?
Mr. The Edge
09-19-2002, 09:11 AM
if you're gonna put M3 brakes on, I hope you'll at least put the Euro cross-drilled rotors on :thumbup:
Raffi
09-19-2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Clem
DAMMIT, Someone want to help me petition Brembo for a rear big brake kit?
How about UUC's VSB kit?:dunno:
Originally posted by Raffi
How about UUC's VSB kit?:dunno:
Too small :eeps: :eeps: :eeps: but it is still under consideration.
Dr. Phil
09-19-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Clem
Too small :eeps: :eeps: :eeps: but it is still under consideration.
I suggest you just sell it and start over with a new project car. Preferably something with more "base" power:angel:
Originally posted by PM 325xiT
I suggest you just sell it and start over with a new project car. Preferably something with more "base" power:angel:
Maybe I just need to find that donor M62TU B44 :eeps: :eeps:
Dr. Phil
09-19-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Clem
Maybe I just need to find that donor M62TU B44 :eeps: :eeps:
I guess that could work:dunno: :p
But I don't know if you could handle 286 kmh:yikes:
JPinTO
09-19-2002, 02:25 PM
What front brakes did you do???
Most of the big brake kits swap the fronts because of the larger proportion of the braking they do. For example, I thought that the new A4's brakes are ~12" in the front....but ~10" in the rear.
With a high percentage of the braking done by the fronts... why bother with that big rears? You could just do the 330's 12.6" Rears with no hassles at all. Or the 11.6" 328's for half the price.
I'm thinking 14" Brembos up front.
JPinTO
09-19-2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Clem
I'm thinking 14" Brembos up front.
The downside of the big fronts vs small rears (I have 12.8"F 330 & 10.8" R Stock) is that with a staggered tire setup (F:225/R:245) I can easily and readily overpower the front tires traction. A 14" setup would be so overkill on the front that it's not funny.
I'll bet you could do the F&R 330 upgrade and get more balanced braking for less $ than just the Front 14" Brembos.
Raffi
09-19-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by JPinTO
The downside of the big fronts vs small rears (I have 12.8"F 330 & 10.8" R Stock) is that with a staggered tire setup (F:225/R:245) I can easily and readily overpower the front tires traction. A 14" setup would be so overkill on the front that it's not funny.
I'll bet you could do the F&R 330 upgrade and get more balanced braking for less $ than just the Front 14" Brembos.
I'll have to go with JP on this. I, too, was considering getting a Brembo brake kit a while back. Besides the huge cost involved, I thought it would be a bit of overkill. I spoke with over a dozen of the LA, San Diego and Central California Chapter CCA instructors, and ALL of them told me not to bother. Most of these same instructors run stock calipers and rotors on their club racers; they simply upgrade the pads. Mind you, I track my car extensively, so I do need the braking performance. However, by simply getting better pads, SS lines and Ate fluid, I have been EXTREMELY happy with the car's braking power. I have never run out of braking power at the track.
With your 325, I think that simply upgrading to the 330 brakes would be a major and sufficient improvement. Keep the rest of the money and take your car to the track, whether or not you already have done it.
Consider this: the only people recommending that I upgrade to the Brembos were the vendors - draw your own conclusions. :tsk: :tsk:
JPinTO
09-19-2002, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Raffi
With your 325, I think that simply upgrading to the 330 brakes would be a major and sufficient improvement. Keep the rest of the money and take your car to the track, whether or not you already have done it.
Consider this: the only people recommending that I upgrade to the Brembos were the vendors - draw your own conclusions. :tsk: :tsk:
The 325& 328 had a great set of brakes (F: 11.8" R: 11.6").
By comparison the 323's were F: 11.3" R: 10.8". Definitely worth upgrading "even to just" the 325/8. This is a easy upgrade as new calipers are not needed.
I went overkill with the 330 fronts. They are fantastic, but in retrospect I wished that I did the 325/8 F&R upgrade instead of just the 330 front.
When my rears need work... I'll upgrade them to the 325 for just the incremental cost of brake carriers. Well worth it, IMO.
The HACK
09-19-2002, 04:36 PM
We're all assuming Clem is doing it purely for performance purposes.
If the goal was performance, the first thing that should be swapped out is the PADS. They make the biggest difference...You can be running the biggest rotors Brembo makes (15" I think) but if you're running crap pads like that stuff they put on Honda's then you're no better off with OEM BMW brakes.
I think Clem's ultimate goal may be a combination of aesthetics AND performance. God knows even with my puny 18" wheels, the 325/328 brakes still has quite a gap between the rotors and wheel. I think the best combination in this case would actually be the brembo kit up front and the 330i brakes in the rear, since the 330i brakes are the same DIAMETER as the M3 brakes, fills the wheel nicely, and would be the most easily acquired. Remeber, you have to pay core deposits for buying new calipers anyway, and that's normally a PERCENTAGE of the cost of the part and you'd get that deposit back when you return your old caliper.
Frankly I'd put on a set of Perf. Friction pads and be done with it. Speaking of which...I got to go pan-handle those guys for a new set of pads. I'm fed up with the Pagids. :(
Raffi
09-19-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by The HACK
Frankly I'd put on a set of Perf. Friction pads and be done with it. Speaking of which...I got to go pan-handle those guys for a new set of pads. I'm fed up with the Pagids. :(
Yo, before you swap to PF pads, talk to me on Sunday. I did not have a good experience with PF's pads, so I went back to the R4S for the street.
Later.
Originally posted by The HACK
We're all assuming Clem is doing it purely for performance purposes.
I think Clem's ultimate goal may be a combination of aesthetics AND performance. God knows even with my puny 18" wheels, the 325/328 brakes still has quite a gap between the rotors and wheel. I think the best combination in this case would actually be the brembo kit up front and the 330i brakes in the rear, since the 330i brakes are the same DIAMETER as the M3 brakes, fills the wheel nicely, and would be the most easily acquired. Remeber, you have to pay core deposits for buying new calipers anyway, and that's normally a PERCENTAGE of the cost of the part and you'd get that deposit back when you return your old caliper.
Correct, my cheif aims are a "combination of aesthetics AND performance"
I was unaware that 330i rotors (rear) are the same diameter as the M3s. Actually there is a .3" variance according to BMWUSA.com 12.9" for the M3 and 12.6" for the 330i. So what parts am I looking at to retrofit 330i rear brakes?
Here is my problem aesthetically..............
( why do I get the eerie feeling that I am going to be flamed soon :dunno: )
http://www.bimmerfest.com/members/clem/coils/dsc00042.jpg
JPinTO
09-20-2002, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by Clem
Correct, my cheif aims are a "combination of aesthetics AND performance"
I was unaware that 330i rotors (rear) are the same diameter as the M3s. Actually there is a .3" variance according to BMWUSA.com 12.9" for the M3 and 12.6" for the 330i. So what parts am I looking at to retrofit 330i rear brakes?
Here is my problem aesthetically..............
( why do I get the eerie feeling that I am going to be flamed soon :dunno: )
Then you are probably going to *need* to do Fronts and rears... not just fronts. I'd stick to my 330 recommendation. F: 11.3" to 12.8" / R: 10.8" to 12.6"
Braking will be phenomenal and it will retain OEM balance.
You will need new calipers, brake carriers (brackets to hold the calipers), rotors and pads. That's it. CDN$ cost for the fronts should be in the $1400 range. Probably the same for the rears.
Look at the difference between the 12.8" Front and 10.8" Rear. The Front completely fills out the 17" M68 wheel. It is a huge rotor. There will be a little more gap on a 18"... but it will probably look very proportional. The M3 also has a 12.8" front rotor.
JPinTO
09-20-2002, 04:42 AM
Pic:
JawKnee
10-10-2002, 06:25 PM
FYI -- The e46 m3 front brakes will not fit without some "modification". They do bolt right up but there is clearance issues. I need to replace my front rotors really soon so when I do, I'll take pix of the e46 m3 brakes "bolted up". I have a set with <200 miles that I got for free sitting in my garage :D
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