M5 Oil Problem

[M6OpusX]

On my M5 first trip out of town three days ago (to Atlanta, GA), with only 940 miles in it, I got a warning on the screen that the oil level was extremely low and I needed to add oil immediately. I was on the interstate, and pulled into a gas station. The gas station did not have the kind of oil used by BMW.

I called BMW Assist, who offered to tow my car to a dealership - this is on a Saturday at 5 PM, all dealerships are closed so I would be without a car for the weekend- but BMW Assist refused to have the tow truck bring me the oil I needed. Very stupid, seems to me it would be more expensive to tow the car than to have the towing service bring me the oil I needed. I was told to check if I was really low on oil. When I told the operator the screen was showing I had less than 0.6 L of oil she told me to check the dipstick - There is NO dipstick in an M5! What a waste of time!

I did receive a letter from BMW last week that states that some M5 have experienced oil leaks from the Vanos. Ever since I got that letter I have been checking under the car, but have seen no oil on the floor as it would result from leakage.

Today, Monday, I took my M5 to an Atlanta dealership. They were familiar with the Vanos leak issue, but the parts needed for the repair are issued by BMW on a case by case basis, so my car had to stay at the dealership until they receive the part in one or two days. Thus I had to extend my Atlanta trip from a planned retun ot today, Monday, until when Tuesday or Wednesday? Is absolutely unacceptable that BMW knows of the potental Vanos oil leak problem but does NOT stock the necessary repair parts at the dealerships.

My son is comming from overseas tomorrow to visit with me for a week. Well, our time together just got cut short by the idiotic decission of someone at BMW NOT to stock the needed repair parts at the dealerships. I appreciate BMW sending the warning letter to new M5 owners, and the awesome car they have built in the '06 M5. But not the poor customer service I got from BMW Assist and the fact that I had to extend my Atlanta trip because of some BMW bean counter.

As for the Atlanta dealership, Global Imports, and my hometown dealership, Century BMW, their service is great. My hometown Service Manager told me what to do when I called him and explained my problem. The Global Imports Service Director offered me a loaner car and promissed my M5 will be repaired the same day they receive the necessary parts. Now if that kind of service and the BMW engineering would be match by BMW Assist and those who determine what parts to stock at dealerships (when they know before the fact they will be needed) we would be better off.

[chuck92103]

NO dipstick? :dunno:

[operknockity]

Yes, Chuckie. BMW has started removing the dipsticks as a cost cutting measure on cars equiped with iDrive.

I can understand that BMW dealers do not want to have to stock parts which may or may not ever be used if the incidence rate of the VANOS problem is quite low. I'm not sure how Assist works, so I can believe that it is not their policy to just bring you oil on a whim. What is troubling is that they even asked you to check the dipstick when they have records showing which car you have nd should have know it doesn't have a dipstick.

What is inexcusable is that you got the letter so you knew there was a potential problem with the car, yet you went on a long drive without even taking a few bottles of oil with you in case of emergency.

[chuck92103]

My car has iDrive and a dipstick. :dunno:

I keep a few bottles of oil on hand that I got from a local auto parts store. I am not sure how you can add oil accurately without a dipstick.

[LmtdSlip]

So, was the car truly leaking oil? Were you really that low or was it a false alarm?

[operknockity]

I am not sure how you can add oil accurately without a dipstick.idrive tells you how low you are. If it says add half a quart, then you just add half a quart. Same as with a dipstick.... the level reads a half quart low so you put in half a quart. The only real difference is that you can actually see the real live level on the stick rather than on a picture of a stick on a video monitor.

The really big difference is that the iDrive method relies on the proper functioning of the oil level sensors and there is not way to do any sort of visual inspection as a backup to confirm the iDrive indicators. So how much do you trust the oil level sensors these days?

[xspeedy]

What is inexcusable is that you got the letter so you knew there was a potential problem with the car, yet you went on a long drive without even taking a few bottles of oil with you in case of emergency.

:stupid: Especially when the oil isn't easily obtained at gas stations.

[AJAX]

Does it use the same type of Castrol that the S54 uses?

And I agree with the others...new engines (especially) can burn a little oil. This sounds like more than just a little, but buying a couple of quarts would have been prudent.

On top of all that...it's a new car that's just getting to customers. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the factory to overnight parts to stealerships around the country. Parts dissemination (?) takes a little time.

[chuck92103]

Does it use the same type of Castrol that the S54 uses?

And I agree with the others...new engines (especially) can burn a little oil. This sounds like more than just a little, but buying a couple of quarts would have been prudent.

On top of all that...it's a new car that's just getting to customers. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the factory to overnight parts to stealerships around the country. Parts dissemination (?) takes a little time.

Agree. There is a price to pay for having to be first on the block with a new car and new engine.

Lack or parts, and bugs that need to be worked out.

[E60orBust]

So how much do you trust the oil level sensors these days?

None. Call me 'old school' but I need to touch the paint to see if it's wet and I want a physical dipstick to tell me how much oil is in my car.

One of the reasons why I'm pushing my brother to take the leap for the current M3 and not wait around for the next one, regardless of the new displacement, etc.

[M6OpusX]

I disagree with those who think it is too much to ask BMW to stock the repair parts at the dealerships. After all, BMW knows how many E60 M5s have been sold by each dealership, and based on experience they should know how many have needed repairs so far.

A simple calculation would allow to estimate the number of parts to stock at a dealership. As a minimum, I would stock one set of all necessary VANOS repair parts at each dealership. This is NOT rocket science nor a logistical distribution nightmare, it's just proactive customer service.

As for carrying extra oil in my car: I checked under the car every day after I received the letter from BMW warning about potential oil leaks, but did NOT see any leaks. I wonder if my M5 had a VANOS problem or if it was not filled with the correct amount of oil before shipping it.

Three months ago I bought a 1989 325i which I intend to modify for racing. When I went to pick it up 70 miles away, I took with me 4 quarts of oil and agallon of coolant just in case, because the car had over 100 thousand miles in it. I expected it may have an oil leak. Before I drove this used car out I checked the oil and coolant levels, and tested the brakes and wipers.

When you buy an $80K+ car, you assume you don't have to carry extra oil in your trunk just in case. After all, it is a brand new car, not a used 10+ years old car. I ended up having to spend two extra nights out of town waiting for my M5 to be repaired. I still believe it was poor foresight on part of BMW not to stock the M5 repair parts at the dealerships.

[damills]

Yes, Chuckie. BMW has started removing the dipsticks as a cost cutting measure on cars equiped with iDrive.

I can understand that BMW dealers do not want to have to stock parts which may or may not ever be used if the incidence rate of the VANOS problem is quite low. I'm not sure how Assist works, so I can believe that it is not their policy to just bring you oil on a whim. What is troubling is that they even asked you to check the dipstick when they have records showing which car you have nd should have know it doesn't have a dipstick.

What is inexcusable is that you got the letter so you knew there was a potential problem with the car, yet you went on a long drive without even taking a few bottles of oil with you in case of emergency.
Curious, is cost savings the real reason for no dipstick? Seems like having electronics checking the oil would be more costly.

I hope BMW changes this, the electronic check of oil level is great, but something as crucial as oil level needs a backup method, a STICK. Its crazy, what if the sensors go bad, not now but when the car goes out of warranty, an owner is stuck with paying for any repairs to fix the problem.

Im sure everyone agrees, no dipstick is a mistake. Maybe we should petition BMW to put the dipstick back :dunno: like the "stop chris bangle petition"

[Jp_Austin]

As for the oil leak, if it is happening in the intake it could very possibly be leaking INTO the engine (combustion chamber) and not outside the engine (the floor).

[Bruce]

Curious, is cost savings the real reason for no dipstick? Seems like having electronics checking the oil would be more costly.

I hope BMW changes this, the electronic check of oil level is great, but something as crucial as oil level needs a backup method, a STICK. Its crazy, what if the sensors go bad, not now but when the car goes out of warranty, an owner is stuck with paying for any repairs to fix the problem.

It is because people rarely check the dipstick. BMW is not catering to the enthusiast...they are trying to sell cars. Sounds like their research indicates a dipstick isn't useful and the electronic method works just fine. The idiot low oil level light works just fine in every other BMW made. Never heard of one of those lights not working being blamed for a blown engine. I am sure BMW made a piece that wouldn't ruin an engine. I don't see tis as that big of an issue....call me stupid. If I had the choice to look at a guage in the car or pull a dipstick, I'd look at the gauge.

Im sure everyone agrees, no dipstick is a mistake. Maybe we should petition BMW to put the dipstick back :dunno: like the "stop chris bangle petition"

Well we see how well that has worked. Seems like many manufacturers are COPYING Bangle's designs. I jsut wish people would stop the Bangle bashing. People need to try to convince BMW that making a car that breaks even financially built for the enthusiast is a god idea (like a 2800, 300+hp, 1 series).

It is because people rarely check the dipstick. BMW is not catering to the enthusiast...they are trying to sell cars. Sounds like their research indicates a dipstick isn't useful and the electronic method works just fine.

[M6OpusX]

As fOr the abscence of a dispstick in the M5, I have to say my SLK 350 does not have a dipstick either. So is not only BMW but also other manufacturers doing this "innovation."

[E60orBust]

If I had the choice to look at a guage in the car or pull a dipstick, I'd look at the gauge.
I'd rather look at both, preferably just a stick, but both. I miss the VDO Oil pressure gauge in my E46 after moving from a Jeep cherokee. To any LeatherZ suggestion, my car has factory Nav, so no go on the aftermarket mod.


People need to try to convince BMW that making a car that breaks even financially built for the enthusiast is a god idea (like a 2800, 300+hp, 1 series).
The entire wording of that sentence made my head hurt. Care to rephrase a little more clearly?


Sounds like their research indicates a dipstick isn't useful and the electronic method works just fine.
Yes, the digital dipstick works fine, until it doesn't work at all, then you are screwed. I don't think I have ever heard of someone breaking their dipstick off inside the shaft.

Hopefully in version 2 of the M5 (manual transmission editions) they will re-install the dipstick as a form of redundancy.

[skk100]

I just got my M5 back from the dealer. my Vanos Line burst. When I say burst I mean quarts and quarts of oil on the ground, its like a drip coffee maker from below. They kept the car for 3 days until the new hose came in. This happenned at 1100 miles. My friend bought his the same weekend and his VANOS line burst at 200 miles. I took my car in when my friends VANOS line burst and they told me mine woldnt burst, well 2 weeks later it happenned.

[Stuka]

When you buy an $80K+ car, you assume you don't have to carry extra oil in your trunk just in case. After all, it is a brand new car, not a used 10+ years old car.

First year BMW is to be avoided at all cost. Heck, my M3 was 2nd year and the engine still blew up.

As far as oil consumption, I have always had M cars (three M3's, two E36 and one E46), and they all burn oil. :thumbdwn:

You want to know what's crazy, my Turbo, which is significantly more expensive than the M5, burned something like 3 quarts of oil within the first 500 miles. :yikes:

It now burns something like a quart every 5000 miles.

I have always carried that 10/60 oil when I had my M3, it sounds like the E60 M5 is just continuing the Motorsport engine oil consumption tradition. Let's just hope that the engine won't blow like the ones on the E46 M3. :angel:

[Stuka]

Hopefully in version 2 of the M5 (manual transmission editions) they will re-install the dipstick as a form of redundancy.

Depending on the design, a digital dip stick can be just as reliable. I hang out on the P car boards, and I have never heard of anyone's digital oil gauge on their Turbo break. :dunno:

Of course, that is not to say that the Turbo is without problems. The fuel line disconnect inside fuel tank is a common :yikes: problem :thumbdwn:, for example. :mad:

[operknockity]

When you buy an $80K+ car, you assume you don't have to carry extra oil in your trunk just in case.Excuse me, but what does the price of the car have to do with it? Sure, you don't expect an $80K care to have any manufacturing defects, but then you'd be dissappointed. Manufacturing defects show up in all machines, at ever price level. After all, we have a bazillion dollar space shuttle that is constantly breaking down (and worse). Geeze, for a bazillion dollars you'd think they could glue the foam on to the booster better, and glue the tiles on to the shuttle body better, and, and, and, and, and..... Especially when the results are so devastating rather than just having to wait an hour for a tow truck to come by.

The primary reason to carry extra fluids on a long trip, especially to/thru parts unknown, is that they are CONSUMABLES. That means at any time, you just might run out of them and be somplace where it is very inconvenient to get more. Add in that you were driving a car with a higher than normal probability of needing said fluids, both because it is a first generation of the new chasis/engine/etc., and because BMW discovered a manufacturing defect in several of them and warned you about it.

[E60orBust]

The fuel line disconnect inside fuel tank is a common :yikes: problem :thumbdwn:, for example. :mad:

Disconnect like when a BMW senses a rollover and shuts off the gas tank? That would mean the turbo suddenly thinks it's out of gas, possibly with a full tank?

I had my fuel filter suddenly crap out of me in my old jeep cherokee and THAT was a PITA, more so if it had of happened while not in my driveway. But if your disconnect is what I think it is, now you've got me paranoid about my bimmer :tsk:

[Stuka]

Disconnect like when a BMW senses a rollover and shuts off the gas tank? That would mean the turbo suddenly thinks it's out of gas, possibly with a full tank?

I had my fuel filter suddenly crap out of me in my old jeep cherokee and THAT was a PITA, more so if it had of happened while not in my driveway. But if your disconnect is what I think it is, now you've got me paranoid about my bimmer :tsk:

Yep, full tank of gas and the car thinks you have no gas because well, the fule line is disconnected. :mad:

I was so glad that happened AFTER I got back from the Vegas track, it would have sucked so so badly if I had been stranded on the 15. :thumbdwn:

[E60orBust]

The primary reason to carry extra fluids on a long trip, especially to/thru parts unknown, is that they are CONSUMABLES. That means at any time, you just might run out of them and be somplace where it is very inconvenient to get more. Add in that you were driving a car with a higher than normal probability of needing said fluids, both because it is a first generation of the new chasis/engine/etc., and because BMW discovered a manufacturing defect in several of them and warned you about it.

My brother had the same reasoning with his pickup. He has an extra 2-quarts of ATF, Oil, washer fluid, tire plugs, etc. Pretty much anything that could break down on his truck, he wanted to be able to fix it 'in the field'. Which I guess was a good thing since one time his ball joint popped off on the passenger side wheel and made a nice gash in the asphault of a parking lot. Yes, the ball joint, at low speed, in a parking lot. This was on an '85 Dodge Ram

In part I'm agreeing with you and in part I'm not. On certain trips, you should carry an extra this or an extra that 'just in case', but paying that much for a car, there are certain expectations of reliability that come along with writing the check. You don't make reservations at a Five-star hotel and expect motel 6 accomodations.

[operknockity]

In part I'm agreeing with you and in part I'm not. On certain trips, you should carry an extra this or an extra that 'just in case', but paying that much for a car, there are certain expectations of reliability that come along with writing the check. You don't make reservations at a Five-star hotel and expect motel 6 accomodations. True. But an $80K car has many more moving parts than a Five-star hotel room, and there isn't much new in the way of hotel technology that can go wrong, but there's plenty of new technology in a first year run of any new car design that can break down. Even if something the hotel room did break, it;s not like that leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere.

And again, he was warned.

[BmW745On19's]

Yep, full tank of gas and the car thinks you have no gas because well, the fule line is disconnected. :mad:

I was so glad that happened AFTER I got back from the Vegas track, it would have sucked so so badly if I had been stranded on the 15. :thumbdwn:

Holy crap thats what that was....

Sometimes the day after we fill up our car it reads on the gauge that it has no gas, so we scratch our heads and go thorugh all the menus, still says no gas, we turn off the car totally, take the key out, reinsert the key, and start it back up, and the gauge reads fine. So is that what your telling me that the car thinks the fuel line is disconnected, then what would happen? :dunno:

[///MLover]

Is it true that you dont get a right reading of oil when the car is running or in motion? Or is this like already tested?

-Pwned

[Bruce]

trying to clarify...

I wrote (and now edited:
People (we) need to try to convince BMW that making a car that breaks even financially, built for the enthusiast is a good idea (for example: a 2800 pound, 300+hp, 1 series).

[AJAX]

As far as oil consumption, I have always had M cars (three M3's, two E36 and one E46), and they all burn oil. :thumbdwn:

Maybe I'm not driving it hard enough (a scary thought in and of itself) but I haven't burned any significant amount in mine...2 of the 3 quarts I bought at delivery have gone into isolation on the garage shelf. Never had to top it off.

[Stuka]

Maybe I'm not driving it hard enough (a scary thought in and of itself) but I haven't burned any significant amount in mine...2 of the 3 quarts I bought at delivery have gone into isolation on the garage shelf. Never had to top it off.

When I had the E46 M3, my 15K service came in at 8000 miles. :dunno:

I burned through a set of front and rear tires every 10000 miles. :yikes:

And Nick drove his M3 way harder than I ever did.

[streetk14]

I do understand your frustration with this situation. You just paid a lot of money for a car, and expect it to be perfect. Unfortunately, this is not likely going to be the case with these cars. The S85 is a new engine, and I'm sure it will have some issues. It is also very cutting edge in technology and performance. This is not a Honda Civic engine. It will burn some oil, even more so during the break-in period. This is a small price to pay for the performance you get.
Also, take it easy on the BMW assist people. BMW assist is just a roadside service similar to AAA. They know little about your car. They can send a tow truck if you run out of gas, need a jump start, and so on. No one besides the BMW dealer is going to carry the 10w60 motorsport oil for that engine. Play it safe and keep a quart or 2 in the trunk.
However, I don't think oil consumption or leakage was the problem at all. It sounds like the oil level sensor was giving a false reading. I experienced a similar problem on another E60 M5. I was told by BMW technical support that the oil level sensor fluctuation is normal with the break-in oil used. The dealership probably replaced the vanos pressure line as a precautionary measure. If it were leaking enough to make the oil level "extremly low" as the cluster stated, you would have been able to see oil under the car.
There is a very good reason why the dealership did not have the vanos line in stock. BMW is only allowing these lines to be ordered by vehicle VIN. If an owner is concerned, they will order you a line and install it . The reason for this? BMW did not know this problem was coming, and was not prepared. The lines needed to repair the problem are in short supply from the manufacturer. It is not possible for every dealer to have one. They are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. Ok, I'm done ranting for now.
:) -Andy