Do you still think the E65 is as ugly as when you first saw a pic of it?

[TD]

This poll is ONLY for those who did not experience love-at-first-sight upon seeing pics of the E65 for the first time.

Now that it's been around for a while and we've all seen numerous copies in the flesh, so to speak, has your opinion changed?

And, yes, I stole the idea for this poll from one I saw posted at the Org.

[Ben Chou]

I hate the rear of the car.

Otherwise, in dark colors with the 19 inch wheel package, it looks really nice, but nothing helps that rear.

I am not sure how to vote this in the poll.

[TD]

Originally posted by Ben Chou
I hate the rear of the car.

Otherwise, in dark colors with the 19 inch wheel package, it looks really nice, but nothing helps that rear.

I am not sure how to vote this in the poll.

Use your best judgement. Pretend it's a 5-point scale or something.

BTW, you all may be surprised to know I voted "Neutral".

[Kaz]

As I'm seeing more and more of them on the road (saw one parked at the Kinder Care this evening), it seems more and more out of place.

It has the same lasting impression on me as the XCoupe and Z9. :thumbdwn:

[Plaz]

I thought it was hideous at first, but acclimated to it a bit.

I still think it looks weird mostly, but from some angles, it's attractive.

Oh... perhaps you win this for this post?

:lmao: :lmao:

(all in good fun)

[Mr. The Edge]

I think the front is FAR worse than the rear. The rear works for me now having seen it in person.

Overall, it's still not an attractive car to me.

[bmw325]

In dark colors, at night from the side only its sort of ok. How's that for a tepid response. I guess even the Aztek looks good under those conditions-- well maybe not quite.

[operknockity]

I voted "unchanged - its still hideous". However my actually feeling is somewhere between "unchanged" and "neutral". The front end is starting to grow on me as I see more of them in real life. However, I am still horrified at the butt and I do fear that BMW has lost their design compass with all that crap that Bangle spews to justify the new rear ends.

[Jetfire]

I like everything but the rear. After looking at it, I can see that the rear shoulders are actually an evolution/exaggeration of the lines on my M3; however, I think they went too far. Still not a fan of that but I think the rest of the car is quite attractive. There are tons of them around here, and the darker colors in particular look great.

[·clyde·]

I think that I was neutral about the front end from the start, and I'm growing to like it more and more. Initially, I was nonplussed about the rear, and with time, I am disliking it more and more. However, I've been thinking that much of my disgust with the rear comes from the similarity to the Stratus. I think what bothers me is the it *feels* like the E65 copped a mediocre styling cue froma mediocre car. Had there been no Stratus, I'd probably be pretty neutral on the rear.

[TD]

Strangely, I've always found the "face" to be far more offensive than the "butt". Something about the lack of harmony in the allignment of the face elements and the blasphemous placement of the turn signal indicators. That and it's complete lack of a chin.

The butt is just ugly.

[Teej]

I agree with atyclb and TD...to me the front is far worse than the back, which is also pretty ugly. The huge gap between the "eyes" , the misalignment between the grille and the lights, the sad and boring air dam....eewwww!! :thumbdwn: :mad: :banghead:

The rear is tolerable in dark colors, the front would be fine if invisible.

[rost12]

Yeah yeah yeah.
You guys done talking?
Good.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go drive it just for the fun of it :flipoff:

[rost12]

Here. Feast your eyes on this beauty, critics.

http://members.roadfly.org/e65faq/lowtech_top.jpg

[bmw325]

Agree-

the rear could be more tolerable if they atleast ditched that wierd horizontal light strip that doesn't really seem to fit in. I also don't buy Bangles argument about the rear design being ncessary for luggage space. I think they could've integrated a more benign looking E46-type rear and acheived the same volume.

The front needs a serious facelift (literally). It looks like an old jowly fat man with a mopey expression.

Ahh- but then it would've looked almost like its predecessors-- and that somehow would've been a bad thing. They couldnt' think of any truly creative ways of moving forward the classic BMW cues, so they just grossly distorted them.

THe sides aren't bad-- although I don't like the low placed character line (can't remember the German name for that --something w/ an s?), its ok and seems to look powreful and BMW-like

The interior is just a disgrace in terms of quality, functionality and looks-- it may actually be the worst part about the car since that's where you spend most of your time. OUr E46s are much better built interior-wise.

Sorry, I get all riled up whenever someone brings up the e65.:mad:

BTW, i read in the latest issue of Car magazine that the e65 will have a facelift in 2004-- dunno how true that is-- but lets' hope. That would atleast be a sign that BMW realizes they've made a big mistake.

[rost12]

Originally posted by robg

Ahh- but then it would've looked almost like its predecessors-- and that somehow would've been a bad thing. They couldnt' think of any truly creative ways of moving forward the classic BMW cues, so they just grossly distorted them.

Interior is just a disgrace in terms of quality, functionality and looks-- it may actually be the worst part about the car since that's where you spend most of your time. OUr E46s are much better built interior-wise.


I'm stupid for even participating in this ... um ... discussion, but heck, let me be stupid, then.

Predecessors were not selling. You know why? Because old 7-er did not LOOK the part. It did not look like a 100,000+ (Canadian) bucks.
My father, who represents the target market for there cars, did not even consider E38. It was MB S-classe all the way. I don't care if you call that "shallow" or whatever, it is what people with money think, face it. When he saw the new 7-er, for all its futuristic design and my caution, he loved it. This proves that BMW made a sound business decision, anyones opinion about design notwithstanding.

Secondly, your comment about E65's interior quality is absurd.
In my 2001 E46 I can make practically any plastic part in the car squeak just by pressing on it, ever so lightly. There's not a sound from anywhere inside E65, and I've driven it over some very rough roads at significant speeds.



TD, I've got a problem with you too. The wording of your poll and topic name... no objectivity, pure acid. What was your goal, to get an objective response or to attract a bunch of E65 haters? You certainly seem to have succeded in latter.


I've got some time to waste, so bring it on, critics.

[Mr. The Edge]

TD must deserve the PLATINUM troll award. for this one



:eek:

[TD]

Originally posted by rost12

TD, I've got a problem with you too. The wording of your poll and topic name... no objectivity, pure acid. What was your goal, to get an objective response or to attract a bunch of E65 haters? You certainly seem to have succeded in latter.


I addressed this to people who did not like it when they first saw it. That includes A LOT of people and most of the automotive media. Disliking the E65 is, for better or worse, a majority opinion.

Next, I also did not think up the idea of asking this question. Someone asked it at the Org, but since it doesn't have cool polling functionality, the response was difficult to quantify.

My only potential "sin" here was being a bit miscievous in the wordings of the choices. But they weren't meant for E65 lovers like yourself.

[TD]

Originally posted by atyclb
TD must deserve the PLATINUM troll award. for this one

:eek:

:thumbdwn:

[Mr. The Edge]

Originally posted by TD


:thumbdwn:

:cry:

:p :D

[DLF]

Just as I have about many new automotive designs previewed with Photoshopped PR pics, or worse yet, artists' renderings, I initially thought to myself: "It can't look that bad in person."

Then I saw the first truckload unloaded at my local dealership.

Un-frickin' real.

[in_d_haus]

UGLY still!

I kinda torqued off my dealer the other day, they were delivering one and I said to the guy "you actually bought one of those?"

[rost12]

TD:

Clarification: I'm not a "lover". I'm a car enthusiast :)

You saw a poll at the org...and you just couldn't resist, could you...Oh well.

Btw, just out of curiosity, what auto mags wrote bad review of 7-ers? I've seen 2-3 reviews, nobody was crazy about the looks but nobody bashed the car as a whole either. I'd like to read up :)

Cheers, troll :)

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by in_d_haus
I said to the guy "you actually bought one of those?"

Did you really say that to the buyer? What did he say?

[TD]

Originally posted by rost12
TD:

Clarification: I'm not a "lover". I'm a car enthusiast :)

You saw a poll at the org...and you just couldn't resist, could you...Oh well.

Btw, just out of curiosity, what auto mags wrote bad review of 7-ers? I've seen 2-3 reviews, nobody was crazy about the looks but nobody bashed the car as a whole either. I'd like to read up :)

Cheers, troll :)

Read this thread. I am not alone in deriving joy from slamming this atrocity.

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by TD


Read this thread. I am not alone in deriving joy from slamming this atrocity.

Accept your golden troll award with graciousness! :p

[Mr. The Edge]

Originally posted by JPinTO


Did you really say that to the buyer? What did he say?

yeah, not cool

[rost12]

TD, you didn't answer my question. Now I'll have to look them up myself :(
Also, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to crush your party $-)


in_d_haus - my reply to such a remark would have ranged from "FU" to "talk to the hand", depending on my mood :D
Can't believe you actually said that.

[Josh (PA)]

Originally posted by rost12
Here. Feast your eyes on this beauty, critics.

http://members.roadfly.org/e65faq/lowtech_top.jpg

Of course it looks "good" in that angle, you can't see the front at all, and any of the contourted lines of the rear.

Having said that, I voted I have become more neutral to the design. It definitely has a presence, a heft and a feeling of size to it. The details are just poorly pulled together.

[rost12]

Okie, here's a different angle.

http://members.roadfly.org/e65faq/fireo_3.jpg

And here's a pic of the trunk. Pic is a bit pale, my scanning skills are limited :(

http://members.roadfly.org/e65faq/e65_lake_2.jpg

Now tell me, what's so ugly about that butt?

[Ben Chou]

In dark colors, it does hide the lines of the rear better. It just doesn't flow. It looks almost like a Chrysler Cirrus or something.

[Mathew]

Personally, i was a bit skeptical when i first saw pics, but now of course i like the styling. Also, im with TD and atyclb on the front thing. The front needs to be a bit more sculpted. In some angles it just looks obnoxious, like the sig pic rost used to have.

[Jetfire]

rost, the upper picture is sharp! Not my choice of colors, but I really do like the E65 from that angle.

It falls apart for me in the back. I don't like the pronounced shoulders. Their contrast with the upright, squared-off trunklid just isn't consistent with the rest of the car's smoother lines. Plus, the angle of the taillights combined with the horizontal strip across the lid look strange to me. The whole rear just looks too chunky to mesh with the cleaner front end.

In that particular segment, I have a bit of a conflict on my hands. I find the front of the Bimmer far superior to the Benz's current S-class. The S front end is nowhere near the sweetness of the E (new and last gen), SL, and CL. However, I find the rear of the Benz to be better than the Bimmer's. I haven't sat in both of them long enough to make an interior judgement.

[rost12]

Originally posted by ///Mathew
The front needs to be a bit more sculpted. In some angles it just looks obnoxious

Like this?

http://members.roadfly.org/e65faq/fireo_2.jpg

BOOO! :lmao:

[Mathew]

Originally posted by rost12


Like this?
BOOO! :lmao:

Thats not too bad. I was thinking of the one you used to have in your sig that was a link to the faq page. It was the Toledo blue one, and the pic was snapped low to the ground and with a slant. It kinda made the car look like it was snarling upwards.

I like that pic of the sterling gray(?). I liked the first pic you posted of it, it looks like its at a outdoor compound of some sorts, with the metal overhangs. Then i see the X5, the XJ, and Rolls Royce(?) and the Kuwaiti plate. Im guessing it's some rich arab oil tycoon.

[rost12]

Nope, that's Kalahari Biege. Some additional pics are on my faq page. This car belongs to Fireo, a guy from Roadfly E65 board, who was nice enough to help me out with some pics.

Hey, I like that sig :cry:

[TD]

Originally posted by in_d_haus
UGLY still!

I kinda torqued off my dealer the other day, they were delivering one and I said to the guy "you actually bought one of those?"

I was sitting at a light on my way home tonight directly next to an E65. He even had his window rolled down.

The entire light cycle, I was thinking about this post of yours.

In the end, I just couldn't bring myself to say anything to him.

But, god, that car just looks awful.

[Barnacle Bill]

I came to this board because I was tired of this BS on the Roadfly board. Looks like it's worse here!

Well, Mr MFAH, for the record, I loved the E65 at first site, still love it, and can't imagine what kind of a MFAH would go onto a board for owners of a car and post BS like this poll. All the other E65 haters your brought with you are MFAH's, too. I sincerely hope each and every one of you chokes on your own bile and dies this very night.

Have a nice evening, MFAH's:)

[rost12]

Freedom of speech is not doing humanity any good, it seems.

:(

Barnacle Bill, wishing somebody's death over a car is hardly appropriate, IMHO.
Just note that none of the posters who hate E65 would not actually buy one anyway. They are from a different class, different income bracket with different goals. Nobody ever cancelled classic class struggle :D

So, in my opinion, what majority of us here think is irrelevant. Except for opinions of potential or current owners, like yourself. So far, there are enough owners and enough of them enjoy the car. That's all that matters.

My last post in this thread. Cheers :)

[Plaz]

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill
I sincerely hope each and every one of you chokes on your own bile and dies this very night.

Mmmmmm, bile.... :D

[The HACK]

If this thread is NOT intended for those who own E65s, I think it would generate more meaningful data if it was posted over at the GENERAL board, not here.

I thought rost12 is moderating this board?

[TD]

Originally posted by The HACK
If this thread is NOT intended for those who own E65s, I think it would generate more meaningful data if it was posted over at the GENERAL board, not here.

I thought rost12 is moderating this board?

Please feel free to move it. To General or Flame (now that it's become nasty).

[The HACK]

I can only move threads in DIY forum. :dunno:

Email Clem or PixA4 or Jon.

[rost12]

For the record, I'm not moderating anything :)

[ObD]

I have no problem with the rear of the E65, but the front end and I-drive are abominations.

BTW, the E30 and E36 M3's are as ugly as the E65. :p

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

I can live with the rear, but the eyebrow headlights just BOTHER me.

[Whohangs]

I think I'm warming to the car. I don't mind the front all that much, the eyelids aren't all that bad IMO. The horizontal reflectors across the back annoy me to no end though (I also am also annoyed by the reflectors on the bumper of the E46 coupes, must be something about reflectors). The reflectors make me think of the new Honda Accords for some reason.

I've talked to people who would be in this market segment and they like the new 7-Series, so BMW must be doing something right.

[in_d_haus]

I went on a run with out local E38 group this last weekend. To a person they hate the E65 and won't buy one.

[740iL Sport]

It seems that some of us have had our feelings hurt because the E65, a vehicle some have plunked down considerable sums for, has not been met with universal acclaim.

Get over it!

If you bought/leased an E65, more power to you!
Drive safely & enjoy the ride.
I hope you are happy with your decision.


On the other hand, my saying that the E65 is not a car I would spend my money on because I find the styling FU@KED UP doesn't make me a MFAH!.


The E65 to my mind does NOT evoke the impression of power & grace in the manner of it's predecessors.
From a distance it looks BIG. Just BIG.
Get closer and the front reminds me of the eyebrows of a cartoon character my children used to watch on a program called "Rugrats"
The rear simply defies analogous description. I certainly have never seen anything like it.
The sides have NO character at all; They are simply there, devoid of design influence.
The wheels IMO lack imagination. I have seen better styled hub caps in the automotive section of Walmart.


To be fair, the E65 has an astonishing ride for a car so large. At the same time, BMW has taken another step toward deadening the "BMW sporty feel" of it's cars. The ride is a step toward the MB/Lexus side of the spectrum. The concept of I-Drive was apparently targeted for computer literate "dot-com"ers that have more interest in saying "I have arrived" than to sport sedan enthusiasts.


Would I spend my money on an E65....NO. I cannot justify an expense of this magnitude for a car with so many design points which I disgree with.


Am I a MFAH, because I dislike your car? Perhaps in the safety of hunt & peck typing on the internet, I am.
Face to face, I doubt you have the courage to make that claim.


For when all is said and done, it is my opinion that rules my checkbook.

And OH YES, I can afford an E65.


The E65 was ugly when the first pictures were released.
The E65 was ugly when I parked next to one at the dealership.
The E65 was ugly when I raced one and beat it some weeks ago.


Have a NICE day:D


Regards

[TD]

Originally posted by 740iL Sport
And OH YES, I can afford an E65.


The E65 was ugly when the first pictures were released.
The E65 was ugly when I parked next to one at the dealership.
The E65 was ugly when I raced one and beat it some weeks ago.


Have a NICE day:D


Regards

I saw your car out at Curry's a few weeks ago. It's just such a great car.

While, personally, I probably would not have bothered with the turbo, the idea of a manual tranny E38 SP is really damn appealing. You have my respect for undertaking that project.

And how anyone, upon comparing an E38 SP to an E65, could find the E65 to be even remotely comparable in terms of beauty, presence or style is beyond me.

May there still be clean E38s available in a few years when I might have interest in/need for one. And then I'll have to see about a tranny swap... :D

[Eugie Baange]

I've seen two of these beasts on the road -both dark- and one in the showroom -also dark- and I'll say I like 'em better moving "in the wild" than I do on display.

Went out to dinner and a show with my wife on Friday and saw one pull up across the street ( my wife got a little p*ssed for spending more time watching cars drive by than looking at her. At least I was *talking* to her Take what ya get, woman :lmao: ).

Unfortunately, it parked so that a Galandawagen was blocking my view. Now, *that* is one ugly creature.

Back to the E65; I have never seen a car that provoked such mixed feelings in me. I see it once and I like it. I see it again and I don't. Parts of it are drop-dead beautiful; others, unbelievably hideous.

I've seen commercials (in general, not necessarily for the 7) that I've despised.
My wife says the advertising's done it's job because I remember the product.
I say, sure I do but for all the wrong reasons.

That's what BMW has here, I'm afraid.

[LowTech]

Sim - Out of curiosity, man, who the hell are you responding to?

[740iL Sport]

Sim - Out of curiosity, man, who the hell are you responding to?


This fellow.

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill
I came to this board because I was tired of this BS on the Roadfly board. Looks like it's worse here!

Well, Mr MFAH, for the record, I loved the E65 at first site, still love it, and can't imagine what kind of a MFAH would go onto a board for owners of a car and post BS like this poll. All the other E65 haters your brought with you are MFAH's, too. I sincerely hope each and every one of you chokes on your own bile and dies this very night.

Have a nice evening, MFAH's:)




He must have a self-confidence or masculinity issue.:eeps:


Somewhere along the way, we seem to have lost our ability to think for ourselves, and as a result the idea that someone would not like the car we bought has become a crisis.
Grow the fu@k up already!
Get over it.

I have never subscribed to the school of thought of doing the popular thing.
Often, I regard "John Q. Public" as cattle.....as part of the herd,
going along to get along,
eating at Mickey D's,
reading the USA Today,
actually believing what the news media says instead of reading between the lines.
This is the sort of person that waits for something to happen rather than MAKING something happen.


The world is chock full of people that don't give a damn if I live or die. :cry:
There are many more that could care less what my opinion on a given issue is, in this case the E65. :cry:
This is the way of the world.
Maturity dictates that one accept the notion that someone else has a different opinion, and that the tides will continue to rise & fall nonetheless.

So at the risk of repeating myself....:banghead::banghead:
"If you bought/leased an E65, more power to you!"
"Drive safely & enjoy the ride."
"I hope you are happy with your decision."

My dislike for the E65's STYLING and the courage to say so, to my mind, doesn't make me or anyone else an MFAH.

If someone else believes it does, GREAT!! I'm a big Son Of A Bit@h, I can handle that. :banghead:
But it won't get me to write a check for the car.

[LowTech]

Man - You're waaay behind the times.... Barnacle Bill crashed and burned weeks ago. Here is his swan song from then:

Barnacle Bill's Swan Song (http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e65/forum.php?postid=1144802)

Big sons of bit@hes drive big cars. REALLY big sons of bit@hes drive two of 'em! (or more...)

So from one beefy S O B to another, Sim, don't help this board degenerate into a RoadFly e65 bard. Point is, discussions on aesthetics are pointless. You're too much a man to need to respond like that. I've read your posts on the E38 board - you're above this type of trash. It's unbecoming - plus, it scares the children!

Ain't no MAN on this board (or any other) who gives a rat's a$$ about what an anonymous adolescent or any other faceless internet persona thinks. I'm here for facts and info. I got enough friends and hangers-on to argue with in person.

Bottom line: Barnacle Bill is history. So responding by to him one-sided, you're just playin' with yourself, man. Contempt for others on the internet is like masturba tion -- it's best kept a secret pleasure!

[740iL Sport]

:cry: Sorry I missed him!:cry:

:lmao: :lmao:



Thanks for the words of wisdom. :thumbup:

Still it riles me :flipoff: that a difference of opinion warrants a label like MFAH.

What do you suppose would happen if I were to call someone that because they didn't mod their E38 the way I have done Baby? :dunno:


To each his own I guess!

Cheers,

Have a great day. :) I love fall weather :)

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by Eugie Baange
Back to the E65; I have never seen a car that provoked such mixed feelings in me. I see it once and I like it. I see it again and I don't. Parts of it are drop-dead beautiful; others, unbelievably hideous.


I agree with that statement. I saw a steel grey one from the side profile yesterday that shocked me... in a good way. It looked nice in that color from the side... and for the first time I didn't mind it. Then I saw the back of it and didn't like it.

It does ellicit a lot of different feelings depending on color and angle.

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by 740iL Sport

Maturity dictates that one accept the notion that someone else has a different opinion, and that the tides will continue to rise & fall nonetheless.


Words of wisdom! Nice car BTW... I saw a black E38 740i Sport yesterday that made me want to buy one. Resale values on 98-99's seem to be higher than what I remember. Perhaps the E65 has made demand for "Classic" bimmers high?


PS: Are you guyz happy with yourselves? You drove Barnacle Bill off of the web! :D Poor delusional soul thinking he could find soulace here.

BTW: THat guy has to grow some thicker skin. YOu buy a controversial car then are concerned because it causes controversy. Wierd. I drove a 97 Saab 900Turbo for years and LOVED the fact that people thought it was ugly.... until I tried to sell it. DOH! :D

[740iL Sport]

Originally posted by JPinTO



PS: Are you guyz happy with yourselves? You drove Barnacle Bill off of the web! :D


Thank you. Baby is an ongoing adventure.



Sadly, I cannot lay claim to that distinction. I have never had the pleasure? of a discussion with Mr. Bill.

I think his behavior is like the kid on the sand lot that stalks off in a huff, taking his ball with him, because someone made fun of his sneakers.

But Low Tech is right....This isn't worth the time I have wasted on it.

Cheers

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by 740iL Sport

But Low Tech is right....This isn't worth the time I have wasted on it.

Cheers

Entertaining, nonetheless! :D

[rost12]

Bunch of thick-skinned SOB's hunting down naive souls and tearing them to pieces...

:flipoff:

:eeps:
I'd better run now :)

[TD]

Ah, but as a Design Visionary, one cannot allow himself to be confined to the narrow space allowed a designer by those that consider themselves to be guardians of the marque.

I create, bay-bee...

[740iL Sport]

Originally posted by A. van Hooydonk
Ah, but as a Design Visionary, one cannot allow himself to be confined to the narrow space allowed a designer by those that consider themselves to be guardians of the marque.

I create, bay-bee...


Guardian of the Marque? Moi? Hardly. Nor do I presume to be.

Still, because my neighbor simply has to have the latest "designer" clothing or in this case the latest in "designer" automobiles, doesn't compel me to mindlessly "follow the herd"

I can & do think for myself, so.......

Sell it to someone else, bay-bee


The almighty checkbook

[Nbtstatic]

You wanna talk about an ugly automobile, your old 7 is the crown jewel of ugliness.

[Mr. The Edge]

Originally posted by Nbtstatic
You wanna talk about an ugly automobile, your old 7 is the crown jewel of ugliness.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[740iL Sport]

Originally posted by Nbtstatic
You wanna talk about an ugly automobile, your old 7 is the crown jewel of ugliness.

This one?
http://images.cardomain.com/installs/140000-140999/140822_78_full.jpg


Or is it this one instead?
http://images.cardomain.com/installs/140000-140999/140822_5_full.jpg


Or this one?
http://images.cardomain.com/installs/140000-140999/140822_1_full.jpg

Perhaps this one??
http://images.cardomain.com/installs/140000-140999/140822_121_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/installs/140000-140999/140822_123_full.jpg

Note: reflection of the clouds in the hood



Gee, since it is the same car, my position with the E65 still applies, I think for myself.
If you don't like my E38, don't buy one, or don't enter yours in the One Lap of America.

Likewise, if you like the E65, buy 2. Good luck and enjoy them both.


Cheers


PS: I'll be sure and run any ideas about my next project through you to make sure it gets your approval first.:dunno:

[Jetfire]

Originally posted by Nbtstatic
You wanna talk about an ugly automobile, your old 7 is the crown jewel of ugliness.

I could care less about this comment, but I hope it was sarcastic.
:mad: