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View Full Version : Key replacement, reprogramming and 'lost' key banishment


ffej
01-31-2006, 04:09 PM
So, here's the deal...

We have a new M3 in the family - actually, my wife has it, I just admire it, and drive it every once in a while. When they handed us they keys, there was only one master key and one valet/emergency key

:mad: Dealer left out that little bit of information until we were in the finance office, about to sign papers :mad:

We're going to purchase a replacement 2nd master key. The questions I have are: (if anyone knows the answers)

When we re-program both keys, is there any way at all that the other original key (the one we didn't get) would be able to operate the vehicle?

Would the "other" key even be locked out of the car completely or would it be able to manually open the doors & trunk?

Could that "other" key be reprogammed, essentially locking out our "new" keys?

Thanks

cwsqbm
01-31-2006, 06:22 PM
I would think at the very least the lost key would still open the doors and trunk. When my car'slocks were redone due some electrical malfunction, only the key I had left with the dealer would unlock via remote. However, the unsynched key would still open the doors manually and start the car.

Cliff
01-31-2006, 06:29 PM
I think the keys are all coded to the ignition Jeff, so the 'lost' key would still work. The replacement key you order would come from Germany and would be similarly coded. I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think key security is reprogrammable by the dealer. Was the previous owner local to Silly Valley or is there otherwise a reasonable fear on your part that the holder of the original key might be reunited with your car?

ffej
01-31-2006, 06:47 PM
Grrr...

You were supposed to say "Once the keys are reprogrammed, there's no *way* the old key could start the car.

I think the original owner is from the central valley actually. There were unopened CA plates in the trunk.....

So, the possibility exists that the key is still out there and operational. Dammit :tsk:

Though the parts guy I spoke with today said that the replacement wouldn't be programmed. Is coding a firmware type thing? Does reprogramming the key also recode it?

edit: Oh, yeah. Thanks a lot cliff. Nice job giving away my secret identity! ;)

gos
01-31-2006, 06:54 PM
Grrr...

You were supposed to say "Once the keys are reprogrammed, there's no *way* the old key could start the car.

I think the original owner is from the central valley actually. There were unopened CA plates in the trunk.....

So, the possibility exists that the key is still out there and operational. Dammit :tsk:

Though the parts guy I spoke with today said that the replacement wouldn't be programmed. Is coding a firmware type thing? Does reprogramming the key also recode it?

You probably have two issues:

1) mechanical -- mechanically, if you don't change all the lock cores, the old keys would still work I would guess... the spare key in the E90 is plastic, isn't it?

2) electrical -- any encoding could probably be reprogrammed, to prevent, say, the ignition from working. I'd think they could reprogram the computer to only allow the "new" keys to start the car...

(just guesses)

Cliff
01-31-2006, 06:57 PM
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I knows the answers to your questions.

I'm just extrapolating from an experience where I locked my key in the car (I was up at Infineon - thank goodness a friend was also up there with his family and could drive me home to retrieve the spare) and the reaction I got from roadside assistance. I was given 3 options: cut a hole in the trunk to pop it open and retrieve the key, transport the car to the dealer and order a replacement key from Germany, or get a ride home somehow and get the spare key. That the replacement key had to come from Germany leads me to believe that the dealer's powers over keys are pretty limited.

ffej
01-31-2006, 07:11 PM
You probably have two issues:

1) mechanical -- mechanically, if you don't change all the lock cores, the old keys would still work I would guess... the spare key in the E90 is plastic, isn't it?

2) electrical -- any encoding could probably be reprogrammed, to prevent, say, the ignition from working. I'd think they could reprogram the computer to only allow the "new" keys to start the car...

(just guesses)
Well I hope they can. And we don't have the e90 any more. only 2 e46s. And yes, the spare key is plastic.

Bmwcat
01-31-2006, 09:06 PM
So, here's the deal...

We have a new M3 in the family - actually, my wife has it, I just admire it, and drive it every once in a while. When they handed us they keys, there was only one master key and one valet/emergency key

:mad: Dealer left out that little bit of information until we were in the finance office, about to sign papers :mad:

We're going to purchase a replacement 2nd master key. The questions I have are: (if anyone knows the answers)

When we re-program both keys, is there any way at all that the other original key (the one we didn't get) would be able to operate the vehicle?

Would the "other" key even be locked out of the car completely or would it be able to manually open the doors & trunk?

Could that "other" key be reprogammed, essentially locking out our "new" keys?

Thanks The BMW dealer has to send out to BMWNA for a new 2nd key. It takes less than a week. Only BMWNA can make these keys. I got one for my car recently. The original key does not change. It was all fairly painless. :bigpimp:

rwfisher
02-01-2006, 05:48 AM
I ran across a document stating how to reset the code between the key and the car; if this procedure was performed I don't think the old key would work. There is also information that indicates that there are only ~12 keys made for the core/electronics for each car; if you lose that 12th key it's going to cost $$$.....

I wish I had a link for you, but I ran across the abovementioned info while searching for something else. Try searching this board for "key programming", and if that doesn't work, google it....

ffej
02-01-2006, 07:08 AM
I ran across a document stating how to reset the code between the key and the car; if this procedure was performed I don't think the old key would work. There is also information that indicates that there are only ~12 keys made for the core/electronics for each car; if you lose that 12th key it's going to cost $$$.....

I wish I had a link for you, but I ran across the abovementioned info while searching for something else. Try searching this board for "key programming", and if that doesn't work, google it....
Thanks I already did a 'key programming' search but I didn't see that specific thread. I'll refine it a little bit and see what I come up with.

KrisL
02-01-2006, 07:36 AM
Steps for programming a new key:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1288541&postcount=5

Sheepdg
02-01-2006, 07:55 AM
If the car was CPO'd, you should have gotten the 2 Master/Remotes, 1 Valet and 1 Wallet Key. It's on the checklist, but it seems it's usually "blown off" with a check mark instead of the dealer actually ordering any missing keys. Any "missing" keys should be comped to you. :thumbup:

As to your concern about any missing keys..........just stay on your meds. :rofl:

KrisL
02-01-2006, 08:18 AM
If the car was CPO'd, you should have gotten the 2 Master/Remotes, 1 Valet and 1 Wallet Key. It's on the checklist, but it seems it's usually "blown off" with a check mark instead of the dealer actually ordering any missing keys. Any "missing" keys should be comped to you. :thumbup:

As to your concern about any missing keys..........just stay on your meds. :rofl:


a-ha! Sheepdg is exactly right. Here's a link to the CPO checklist:
http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/643287B8-88E6-4622-B82D-5C4DF760BD12/0/cpocklst.pdf


I suggest you print it out and take it to the dealer demanding your key!

ffej
02-01-2006, 08:26 AM
a-ha! Sheepdg is exactly right. Here's a link to the CPO checklist:
http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/643287B8-88E6-4622-B82D-5C4DF760BD12/0/cpocklst.pdf


I suggest you print it out and take it to the dealer demanding your key!
Problem Is, they told us they couldn't CPO the car for the price they were giving us.

:mad: Basthards!!! :mad:

Now I know why. I hate dealerships.

As us worrying, why don't you give me your house key, tell me what city you live in and whether you live in a condo, appt, one or two story house and leave it at that. I'm sure that eventually Id figure it out. ;)

I also know the prodedure for programming the new key, but thanks for posting the link. :thumbup:

Fast Bob
02-01-2006, 09:02 AM
Problem Is, they told us they couldn't CPO the car for the price they were giving us.

:mad: Basthards!!! :mad:

Now I know why. I hate dealerships.

As us worrying, why don't you give me your house key, tell me what city you live in and whether you live in a condo, appt, one or two story house and leave it at that. I'm sure that eventually Id figure it out. ;)

I also know the prodedure for programming the new key, but thanks for posting the link. :thumbup:
Let`s consider the situation from a common-sense point of view....if the previous owner were stupid enough to steal your car, the police investigation would lead right to them, making them a candidate for a Darwin award....

Regards,
Bob

Bioking
02-01-2006, 09:33 AM
You have another option, one that might be interesting depending on the amount of time you can devote. Try to track down the previous owner and any wholesalers/dealers in between the previous owner and you.

When I got my car from a non-BMW dealer, I got only one remote key. The car had the original BMW dealer license plate on it, so I called them and started the investigation. I found the keys at a wholesaler and they FEDEXed them to me. Total cost $15 and about 2 hours of follow up.

I also found out information about my car that I could have never known if I hadn't been in the hunt for the missing keys.

ffej
02-01-2006, 10:25 AM
Bob, thank you for putting that perspective on it. Even still, it would suck to have the car stolen, no matter how easy it was to track down the culprit.

Bioking - thanks, too. The dealer we bought the car from didn't seem too interested in helping us out, but it's possible that if I go directly to the GM we might get a better response.

Bioking
02-01-2006, 11:56 AM
The dealer I got my car from was no help. I used information I got from the license plate holder, and the little tag attached to the only key I got. That key tag had an inventory number that helped me trace the hands the car when through until it got to the dealer I bought it from. What about that license plate in the trunck, or an old registration slip in the case that contains the car manuals? Get a carfax, it might have some information that will give you some leads. At minimum it should give you the original BMW dealer where the car was first sold.

ffej
02-01-2006, 12:07 PM
They took the old registration and gave us the plates only.

I did get a carfax, didn't say anything about anyone. Not even a city IIRC. I'll check it again.

KrisL
02-01-2006, 12:09 PM
They took the old registration and gave us the plates only.

I did get a carfax, didn't say anything about anyone. Not even a city IIRC. I'll check it again.


Yeah, Carfax won't give you any of that information. I've heard that you may be able to get that info from the DMV with the plate#... or a dealer should be able to look it up by VIN (service record of the 1200 mile oil change) ... that doesn't mean they'll actually do that for you, however. Sarafil? :)

WAM
02-01-2006, 12:18 PM
I had my dealer pull up my cousin's service history with a VIN. Along with that, it showed who the car was sold to, including the address.

This was about 2 years ago.

Bioking
02-01-2006, 01:52 PM
That is odd about the Carfax. My carfax told me when and where the car was first registered, Cordova, TN and the date. Only one BMW dealer in Cordova. I figured the rest out from there. Perhaps California is one of the states that does not release DMV info that can be accessed by companies like carfax.

1Dreamer
02-01-2006, 05:05 PM
I had always heard that lost keys could be deactivated by BMW, so I did a quick search and found the info below.

Electronic Vehicle Immobilizer. - The electronic vehicle immobilization unit increases the anti-theft protection of our BMW - you do not have to adjust or activate anything. This electronic immobilization system is designed to reduce the susceptibility of the vehicle to theft by making it impossible to start the engine using any means other than the special keys furnished with the vehicle. Your BMW center can cancel the electronic system authorization for individual keys (in the event a key is lost, for instance). A deactivated key can no longer be used to start the engine.

I'd call up the parts or service department and ask. The sales guys may not even know about it, but as I understand it, I think you need to take the keys you have in, they match those against the keys they have on record as having been issued and then deactivate the ones in the system you're not in possession of.

ffej
02-01-2006, 09:07 PM
I had always heard that lost keys could be deactivated by BMW, so I did a quick search and found the info below.

Electronic Vehicle Immobilizer. - The electronic vehicle immobilization unit increases the anti-theft protection of our BMW - you do not have to adjust or activate anything. This electronic immobilization system is designed to reduce the susceptibility of the vehicle to theft by making it impossible to start the engine using any means other than the special keys furnished with the vehicle. Your BMW center can cancel the electronic system authorization for individual keys (in the event a key is lost, for instance). A deactivated key can no longer be used to start the engine.

I'd call up the parts or service department and ask. The sales guys may not even know about it, but as I understand it, I think you need to take the keys you have in, they match those against the keys they have on record as having been issued and then deactivate the ones in the system you're not in possession of.
That's AWESOME to hear. Now if we can only get the dealer to buy that, we're golden.

I will definitely check into this...Thank You

cwsqbm
02-01-2006, 09:44 PM
I ran across a document stating how to reset the code between the key and the car; if this procedure was performed I don't think the old key would work. There is also information that indicates that there are only ~12 keys made for the core/electronics for each car; if you lose that 12th key it's going to cost $$$.....

I wish I had a link for you, but I ran across the abovementioned info while searching for something else. Try searching this board for "key programming", and if that doesn't work, google it....

When some electronic module flipped out and was fixed at the dealer, my key left at home no longer worked as a remote, and there for had to reprogrammed at the dealer; I tried the tricks here to no success even though the service guy at the dealer did it in under a minute with no tools. However, even before the reprogramming, the bad key still started the car so I'd look more into the blocking of the lost key mentioned above.

1Dreamer
02-01-2006, 10:34 PM
Now if we can only get the dealer to buy that, we're golden.If they don't, tell them to take a look in the owners manual. I went to look in mine and found that exact wording on a page titled "Electronig vehicle immobilizer" at the top right in the section covering the keys and the central locking system. :)

bmclau
02-24-2006, 06:23 AM
Hi

I was browsing through this forum when I found this post on deactivating keys.
I lost a key (not sure if it was stolen, but the car is still in the garage!) and would like to get it deactivated.
My dealer is saying it will take 2 to 3 hours to do it !!!

Can you tell me from your experience how long should it take?
I was guessing it would be a 15 min job !

Thank you in advance.

Sorry for the poor english, I'm from Portugal

Claudio