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View Full Version : Attention BMW: We WANT to buy cars, but...


Bob Clevenger
02-18-2006, 03:59 PM
Yes, we here in North America really want to buy many of your cars, but BMWNA won't let us!

We want to buy diesel-powered models, but they are not offered, and we can't even take ED on them.

We want to buy the 1-series hatchback, gut it is not offered here and ED is not allowed.

We want to buy the 550iT, but again, it is not offered, neither here at a BMW Center nor via European Delivery. This is the model for which I would sell both my 325 xiT and my 2002 M coupe, but I can't buy one at all.

Do you not want to sell cars? There are buyers here in North America who are just waiting for BMW models that are already in production and being sold around the world, but BMWNA refuses to import them. I just don't get it.

philippek
02-18-2006, 04:01 PM
GO GET 'EM BOB!!! :soapbox: :mad:

Seriously though...does the new M Coupe not stir your soul? I know it's the same paltry S54 that you already have...but still?

And the diesels are coming...sooner than anything else on your wish list.

Cliff
02-18-2006, 04:03 PM
The M coupe definitely stirs mine, but then once it's paid for I'd like a 5er diesel touring to be its garage mate.

SpeedFreak!
02-18-2006, 04:06 PM
GO GET 'EM BOB!!! :soapbox: :mad:

Seriously though...does the new M Coupe not stir your soul? I know it's the same paltry S54 that you already have...but still?

And the diesels are coming...sooner than anything else on your wish list.


I don't see an X5 on his list? :eeps: :dunno:

philippek
02-18-2006, 04:10 PM
I don't see an X5 on his list? :eeps: :dunno:

He didn't say X5... just "diesel-powered models"

(and besides, I'm strong enough to close him on a X5 3.0d :eeps:)

avalys
02-18-2006, 04:11 PM
To be fair, it's not that BMW NA thinks _you_ won't buy these cars. It's not that they don't realize there are some people here that want them badly.

The just don't think _enough_ people would buy them to make the extra effort spent certifying them for the US market and importing them worthwhile.

SpeedFreak!
02-18-2006, 04:18 PM
He didn't say X5... just "diesel-powered models"

(and besides, I'm strong enough to close him on a X5 3.0d :eeps:)

:rofl: Ah... I see. :D

Chris90
02-18-2006, 04:22 PM
Bob, you go, girl! ;)

I blame the American consumer too, for wanting everything to be bigger and more luxurious, with lighter steering and a quieter interior.

btw, BMW can't legally use Euro Delivery to sell a car that's not regularly sold in the US - they still have to have passed all the emissions, crash tests etc.

JayK330
02-18-2006, 04:37 PM
I blame the dumbasses we have in legislature and the EPA and all the other greenies. I also blame our weak ass driving tests b/c any moron can get a license here in the states.

I want all Euro options available here as well. Cars and accessories.

hawk2100n
02-18-2006, 04:38 PM
Sign me up for a diesel 5er touring when they come out. That seems like it would be a fabulous car to have and would probabily last for a really long time. I am counting down the days until new low sulfur fuels come out, and we get more diesel vehicles over here. I cant wait.

SpeedFreak!
02-18-2006, 04:40 PM
Sign me up for a diesel 5er touring when they come out. That seems like it would be a fabulous car to have and would probabily last for a really long time. I am counting down the days until new low sulfur fuels come out, and we get more diesel vehicles over here. I cant wait.

I wouldn't hold my breath... if I were you. :eek:

Bob Clevenger
02-18-2006, 06:14 PM
GO GET 'EM BOB!!! :soapbox: :mad:

Seriously though...does the new M Coupe not stir your soul? I know it's the same paltry S54 that you already have...but still?

And the diesels are coming...sooner than anything else on your wish list.

Phillippe, I actually prefer my '02 M coupe to the new one. Just a matter of taste.
That being said, I'll buy a 550iT as soon as you can get me one!

Bob Clevenger
02-18-2006, 06:17 PM
I don't see an X5 on his list? :eeps: :dunno:

I believe we can get X5s now. I don't want any SUV/SAV, thankyouverymuch. I want what the (BMWNA) name implies: a sport wagon.

Bob Clevenger
02-18-2006, 06:18 PM
(and besides, I'm strong enough to close him on a X5 3.0d :eeps:)
Want to make a small (or not-so-small) wager on that? :)

SpeedFreak!
02-18-2006, 06:22 PM
I believe we can get X5s now. I don't want any SUV/SAV, thankyouverymuch. I want what the (BMWNA) name implies: a sport wagon.

THAT... was my exact point. :D

And no... we can not get the X5 in diesel right now... but will be able to in the near future after the new platform is released. :thumbup:

Bob Clevenger
02-18-2006, 06:24 PM
Bob, you go, girl! ;)

I blame the American consumer too, for wanting everything to be bigger and more luxurious, with lighter steering and a quieter interior.
True, and BMWNA provides models for this taste, but not for those of us who want something different (M series excepted).

btw, BMW can't legally use Euro Delivery to sell a car that's not regularly sold in the US - they still have to have passed all the emissions, crash tests etc.
I know this, but they could certify an existing model (550iT 6SP:thumbup: ) for US sale and then limit it to ED so as not to have to provide vehicles just for dealer stock.

gojira-san
02-18-2006, 06:44 PM
I know this, but they could certify an existing model (550iT 6SP:thumbup: ) for US sale and then limit it to ED so as not to have to provide vehicles just for dealer stock.
While they are at it, they could certify the 330iT 6MT for north american sale too! ;) :D

Elvis530i
02-19-2006, 04:21 PM
I know this, but they could certify an existing model (550iT 6SP:thumbup: ) for US sale and then limit it to ED so as not to have to provide vehicles just for dealer stock.

And the dealers would sit still for something like that? I think not. :tsk:

To the original poster, the fundamental problem is cultural. BMWs are built in a society (you know, those awful socialists in Europe) that puts responsibility for safe driving on the driver and allows car manufacturers to offer a range of driving options that may not be appropriate for everyone. Here in the US, we let anything with opposable thumbs get a driver's license and force the car manufacturers to provide the maximum level of safety for the lowest common denominator.

In other words, it's not BMW's fault--they're stuck with what the state and federal regulators in the US allow them to do profitably.

Bruce
02-19-2006, 04:29 PM
To be fair, it's not that BMW NA thinks _you_ won't buy these cars. It's not that they don't realize there are some people here that want them badly.

The just don't think _enough_ people would buy them to make the extra effort spent certifying them for the US market and importing them worthwhile.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner.

LmtdSlip
02-19-2006, 05:07 PM
Ding ding ding...we have a winner.
Exactly.

BMW has become a "luxury" brand rather than a "sport" brand upon which it earned its reputation.

Americans purchasing cars in this price range want "luxury" thats why you see so few SMG and manual trans on dealers lots.

Matthew330Ci
02-19-2006, 07:33 PM
personally i don't want diesel cars.

and as many said, we're in the extreme minority, bmw sells what people want.

hawk2100n
02-19-2006, 08:27 PM
personally i don't want diesel cars.

and as many said, we're in the extreme minority, bmw sells what people want.
Then dont buy one. I understand why people dont want a diesel. They cost more initially, the fuel costs more, and they are noisy. Gasoline will still be the overwhelming majority of BMW's sales. Diesel is a different kind of driving experience than gasoline. I personally like diesels because of the economy and reliability, but for excitement, you really cannot beat a good gasoline engine. I think that people dont realize how good the new diesels are now. Also, I dont understand why they wouldnt offer a diesel 5er touring? It makes perfect sense. A pratical engine in a pratical vehicle. :dunno:

tempestv8
02-20-2006, 12:25 AM
I think it could be due to the variable quality of diesel fuel that's available right throughout the USA. BMW NA won't want to sell diesel in a state where their engines start experiencing problems due to bad fuel. It'll look bad when the customer comes in for warranty and gets knocked back because the engine problem was due to a bad batch of fuel.

ObD
02-20-2006, 09:25 AM
I just don't get it.

Supply and demand.

D.D.
02-20-2006, 03:15 PM
Ditto!

windnsea00
02-21-2006, 12:35 AM
They have been selling ultra low sulfur diesel (ULSD is 15ppm and less) in a large majority of Arco's throughout CA. In our `04 Jetta TDI wagon that we're selling, has been fueled with ULSD for the majority of the time. It's a big difference of smell and soot output between ULSD and normal diesel. The only downside is the BTU is a bit weaker so you don't recieve quite as good mpg (pretty minor difference) but it's good enough for the trade of cleaner emissions and smell.

The new EPA ruling is that in I believe `07, diesel passenger cars must meet the same emission levels as gasoline engines. Now for C02 output thats no problem but getting down NOx is harder. So if the diesels are on the way, which many manufacturers have mentioned they are, I would imagine it will more likely be for `08 models. MBZ is trying to get the EPA to approve their urea system which is a tank in the trunk filled with sheep urine which is then mixed in with the exhaust gases. It needs to be refilled at the set service intervals and it lowers NOx output. Combined with a particulate filter they are very clean running. EPA is afraid of people not having them refilled at time and then having the engine put out more NOx.

Bob Clevenger
02-21-2006, 07:17 PM
Supply and demand.
But that's my point exactly. BMW has the supply and there is a demand, just not as large a one as for more plebian vehicles. Do they prefer to sell NO cars vs. a few 550iTs to those who want a 550iT and won't settle for less.

Sure, certifying for the US market costs money, but how many cars would BMW need to sell to recoup that investment?

As far as dealers not standing for limiting a low-demand model to ED, what's the problem? That way the dealer makes a ED sale; otherwise he makes no sale at all. Actually, ED wouldn't be the only way to avoid stocking unsold (and unpopular) cars --- they could be by order only. If the dealer wanted to stock one he could, but that model would not be part of his normal allotment; they would have to be ordered from the factory same as if you want a colour that can't be found with the equipment on it you want here in the US.

Again, I'm just asking BMW to sell us cars that they already make and that have no reason not to pass emissions and safety standards here in the US, without major modifications. And there is NO salesman who can get some of us to buy a car we don't want, not even friends! Get us into a car that we want but can't really afford, yeah, but it has to be the right car.

hawk2100n
02-21-2006, 07:29 PM
Certifing a 550iT wouldnt be very hard at all IMO. They already know the differences between the 550i euro and 550i US models, as well as the differences between 530iT euro and 530iT US. I really dont think that BMW would be thrown anything that they wouldnt expect, or have already corrected for in another model. I think the problem is BMW just doesnt want a vehicle with lackluster sales because it is bad press. I wish that they would offer vehicles like a 550iT, but what can you do. The least that they could do is offer it for ED. :dunno:

SteveinBelAir
02-21-2006, 07:44 PM
There's another issue. And it's all my opinion BTW.

BMW has spent 30 years here in the States building a brand image that is somewhat different to the image it has in Europe. Here it is a high-end luxury brand. We (bimmerfest folks) all see it as a sporty, well handling, technically advanced range of motor vehicles but the rest of the US sees it as a status symbol. I mean someone buys those BMW Roundel baseball caps and wears them to the Food Lion right?

In Europe, where they have diesels, the 1 series and 3 series models that here would dip down into the low 20s, owning a BMW is not as hard to achieve and although pulling up in a new 3 er may have the curtains twitching in your street, it's not the same as it is here.

Hard to explain to anyone who hasn't spent 20 years in both markets but I look at what VW is selling in the US now - high quality well designed, teutonic metal - the same way as I viewed BMW in the 80s when I was living in England.

It's much the same thing as why Acura, Infiniti and Lexus sprung up here. An Acura Legend was a Honda everywhere else. The current TSX is the Accord eveywhere else. Different markets.

BMW will think very carefully before 'diluting' the brand with what Joe Budweiser will view as 'lesser' cars.

richyz
02-21-2006, 07:54 PM
But that's my point exactly. BMW has the supply and there is a demand, just not as large a one as for more plebian vehicles. Do they prefer to sell NO cars vs. a few 550iTs to those who want a 550iT and won't settle for less.

Sure, certifying for the US market costs money, but how many cars would BMW need to sell to recoup that investment?

As far as dealers not standing for limiting a low-demand model to ED, what's the problem? That way the dealer makes a ED sale; otherwise he makes no sale at all. Actually, ED wouldn't be the only way to avoid stocking unsold (and unpopular) cars --- they could be by order only. If the dealer wanted to stock one he could, but that model would not be part of his normal allotment; they would have to be ordered from the factory same as if you want a colour that can't be found with the equipment on it you want here in the US.

Again, I'm just asking BMW to sell us cars that they already make and that have no reason not to pass emissions and safety standards here in the US, without major modifications. And there is NO salesman who can get some of us to buy a car we don't want, not even friends! Get us into a car that we want but can't really afford, yeah, but it has to be the right car.

From BMW's point of view there simply would not be enough sales of these cars to justify the expense of certifying and marketing them here (and that expense would be considerable). If they thought differently, of course they'd sell them here - they're in business to make money.

Maybe you and some others would buy some of these vehicles - but you're into BMW's anyway and the sale of one of these cars to you, and others like you, likely mean lost sales of another BMW model you would have bought anyway.

Bob Clevenger
02-22-2006, 12:38 AM
Maybe you and some others would buy some of these vehicles - but you're into BMW's anyway and the sale of one of these cars to you, and others like you, likely mean lost sales of another BMW model you would have bought anyway.
As I have already stated, I would sell both my present BMWs ('04 325xiT and '02 M coupe) and buy a new 550iT right now if it were available. Otherwise I will keep the BMWs I already have. There is no other model in the BMW line that I would buy (either not interesting to me or too expensive). If the model I desire is not available BMW LOSES any further sales. BMW can't lose a sale that will never happen. I will NOT buy a car I don't want. I can't be alone in that opinion.

MarcusSDCA
02-22-2006, 01:00 AM
Hmmmm...a special model or version that's only available for European Delivery but is certified for export to the US. Hmmmmmmmm. I'm really liking this concept. And they could even MAKE you eat sausages and sauerkraut at the delivery center before they hand you your fobs.:angel:

Chris90
02-22-2006, 05:48 AM
There's another issue. And it's all my opinion BTW.

BMW has spent 30 years here in the States building a brand image that is somewhat different to the image it has in Europe. Here it is a high-end luxury brand. We (bimmerfest folks) all see it as a sporty, well handling, technically advanced range of motor vehicles but the rest of the US sees it as a status symbol. I mean someone buys those BMW Roundel baseball caps and wears them to the Food Lion right?

In Europe, where they have diesels, the 1 series and 3 series models that here would dip down into the low 20s, owning a BMW is not as hard to achieve and although pulling up in a new 3 er may have the curtains twitching in your street, it's not the same as it is here.

Hard to explain to anyone who hasn't spent 20 years in both markets but I look at what VW is selling in the US now - high quality well designed, teutonic metal - the same way as I viewed BMW in the 80s when I was living in England.

It's much the same thing as why Acura, Infiniti and Lexus sprung up here. An Acura Legend was a Honda everywhere else. The current TSX is the Accord eveywhere else. Different markets.

BMW will think very carefully before 'diluting' the brand with what Joe Budweiser will view as 'lesser' cars.

Smart man, this not a supply and demand issue, it's marketing issue.

Bart001
02-22-2006, 07:14 AM
As I have already stated, I would sell both my present BMWs ('04 325xiT and '02 M coupe) and buy a new 550iT right now if it were available. Otherwise I will keep the BMWs I already have. There is no other model in the BMW line that I would buy (either not interesting to me or too expensive). If the model I desire is not available BMW LOSES any further sales. BMW can't lose a sale that will never happen. I will NOT buy a car I don't want. I can't be alone in that opinion.

Not alone, but in such small company that it's not relevant to the business model.

ObD
02-22-2006, 10:46 AM
But that's my point exactly. BMW has the supply and there is a demand, just not as large a one as for more plebian vehicles. Do they prefer to sell NO cars vs. a few 550iTs to those who want a 550iT and won't settle for less.

Sure, certifying for the US market costs money, but how many cars would BMW need to sell to recoup that investment?

As far as dealers not standing for limiting a low-demand model to ED, what's the problem? That way the dealer makes a ED sale; otherwise he makes no sale at all. Actually, ED wouldn't be the only way to avoid stocking unsold (and unpopular) cars --- they could be by order only. If the dealer wanted to stock one he could, but that model would not be part of his normal allotment; they would have to be ordered from the factory same as if you want a colour that can't be found with the equipment on it you want here in the US.

Again, I'm just asking BMW to sell us cars that they already make and that have no reason not to pass emissions and safety standards here in the US, without major modifications. And there is NO salesman who can get some of us to buy a car we don't want, not even friends! Get us into a car that we want but can't really afford, yeah, but it has to be the right car.

The US isn't the dominate market it once was ... Asia is. The hard reality is that this a global economy. The pool is larger ... small fish don't survive.

apar330i
02-23-2006, 02:16 PM
While they are at it, they could certify the 330iT 6MT for north american sale too! ;) :D:stupid:

Bob Clevenger
02-23-2006, 04:40 PM
The US isn't the dominate market it once was ... Asia is. The hard reality is that this a global economy. The pool is larger ... small fish don't survive.
Either you or I is missing the point. I am not requesting that BMW (or anybody else) make a special vehicle for our market, just that they sell one that they already make to us. That does not have anything to do with whether or not we are a dominant market.

I believe they could make money selling the 550iT (as well as the 530iT) here. I believe there are enough potential buyers for these vehicles here for this to be a wise decision. The cost would be low (in corporate terms) and the profits are here to be taken.

As far as image goes, BMWNA themselves change the name of the Tourings to "Sport Wagons" but they give us a wagon with very little that is sporty about it. If one is to market a vehicle as as "Sport Somethingorother" It ought to be available with the highest level of performance that your company makes. In BMW Touring cars that is the 550iT.