polishing compounds?

[ride365]

the Nov issue of Total BMW magazine has an article on reviving faded [zinnobar] paint. when the paint experts told them there was no hope of restoring the finish, they just grind away and the results were pretty impressive.

my question is in regard to the products they used. they list Farecla G6 [course] and Farecla G3 [fine] polishing compounds, along with T-Cut [possibly a cutting polish???]. where can i get these if available in the states? if not, what is the local equivalent?

also if anyone has read the article, what was your impression? once you grind away so much old paint, is the exposed paint more susceptible to corrosion? obviously you need to be careful not to rub down to primer, but what other concerns are there with doing this?

kurt

edit: BTW i'd be doing this on a brillant rot e30.

[scottn2retro]

but the older paints (pre water based and clear coat) can withstand a lot more polishing before doing some damage than the new finishes. I would imagine 3M or Meguiar's Mirror Glaze has some products that would be equivalent to what they used.

Marco could tell you what you could get here and what to use for your year and color.

e-mail Marco at marco@detailingdepot.com

or check the detail seminar thread for their phone number.

[Intermezzo]

I thought this made for a relatively interesting read. Meguiar's recommends using their Fine, Med & Heavy Cut cleaners only with a rotary...but it looks like they can be used successfully by hand....provided you follow up a good finishing step or two.

http://www.240sx.org/faq/articles/carcare/carcare1.htm

3M also has a similar line of fine-cut, medium cut and heavy cut compounds. Their Fine-Cut Paste Rubbing compound is a staple product in my arsenal and I use it regularly for touch-ups from filling chips, or removing water/bird-poo etchings. Follow that up with a good finishing polish like Finesse-It II or SMR and I'm done.

The Farecla line sounds like a boutique product specializing in professional detailers.

As Scott stated, older single stage enamels are applied much thicker than today's polyurethane 2 stage paints so you have much more room to work with. Also, they do not provide any UV protection the way the top layers of your clear-coat does..so you won't be hurting yourself too much by cutting a good amount of it off. Clear-coated paints, on the other hand, when cut too much (assuming you even avoid going through the clear and into the color-coat) compromises your paint's life-span.

[ride365]

HOLY OLD THREAD, BATMAN!

so i finally got around to tackling this project. i decided to start off "light" with Griot's Polish 1 and orange pad-- it proved largely ineffective.

i'm interested in the Meguiar and 3M products, but would like some advice on what the next grade up would be from the griots. for instance, is Meguiar's "medium cut" courser or finer than Griot's #1? also, would switching to wool pads be recommended?

the detailingdepot site isn't very descriptive with their products and the recommended contact [marco] has failed to respond to my email.

any help is appreciated.

[GSR13]

Originally posted by ride365
HOLY OLD THREAD, BATMAN!

so i finally got around to tackling this project. i decided to start off "light" with Griot's Polish 1 and orange pad-- it proved largely ineffective.

i'm interested in the Meguiar and 3M products, but would like some advice on what the next grade up would be from the griots. for instance, is Meguiar's "medium cut" courser or finer than Griot's #1? also, would switching to wool pads be recommended?

the detailingdepot site isn't very descriptive with their products and the recommended contact [marco] has failed to respond to my email.

any help is appreciated.

Just to clarify, Griots has three Machine Polishes. Machine Polish 1 is the MOST abrasive while 3 is the finest.

I can say, with certainty, that MP1 is pretty abrasive stuff. Are you sure you used 1 and not 3?

[ride365]

Originally posted by GSR13
Just to clarify, Griots has three Machine Polishes. Machine Polish 1 is the MOST abrasive while 3 is the finest.

I can say, with certainty, that MP1 is pretty abrasive stuff. Are you sure you used 1 and not 3?

i bought all 3. i did 3 passes with grade 1 and a finishing pass with grade 2 before giving up.

just to clarify, i'm not talking about a minor blemish in clearcoat. i'm talking about 13 year old red paint with no clear coat [as far as i can tell]. griots polishes are all clear coat safe, and i almost definitely need something that is NOT clear coat safe as i'm trying to cut through a "layer" of paint.

[in_d_haus]

You may try a professional grade polishing compound or even rubbing compound. Due to the chance of messing up the paint I'd have a body shop do it for you.

[Intermezzo]

Originally posted by ride365
i almost definitely need something that is NOT clear coat safe as i'm trying to cut through a "layer" of paint.

One trade-off for the Porter Cable being such a safe tool is that it really takes its time when compounding or correcting paint imperfections. I don't agree with Griot's assertion that an orange pad should be used with ALL three of their polishes....although I do understand why he says it.

MP1 should definitely be used with a compounding or cutting pad. That should be your next step up. Try that before breaking out the wool pads. Meguiar's Medium cut is similar or slightly stronger than MP1. Either way, you're not going to notice too much of a difference if you continue using the orange "polishing" pad. If that doesn't work, then you're going to have to wet-sand your paint.

[ride365]

Originally posted by Intermezzo
MP1 should definitely be used with a compounding or cutting pad. That should be your next step up. Try that before breaking out the wool pads. Meguiar's Medium cut is similar or slightly stronger than MP1. Either way, you're not going to notice too much of a difference if you continue using the orange "polishing" pad. If that doesn't work, then you're going to have to wet-sand your paint.

great info :thumbup:

thanks

[Pinecone]

Just so you understand paint over the years.

In the early days we had enamels and lacquers. Enamels had to be heat cured to last at all and if you compounded them you killed the gloss. The gloss was inherant in the paint.

Lacquers required color sanding (REALLY abrasive) starting with sometimes as rought as 320 or 400 grit, normally moving to 600, then 1000 then polishing. No sanding and polishing, no shine.

Then came acrylic enamels. These would shine on their one, but were hard enough to color sand and/or polish as needed. The next minor step was catalyzed enamels, which used a cross linking agent to be closer to polyurethane paints. The catalyzed enamels are much harder and more durable than regular acrylic enamels.

Then came polyurethane paints. These are very hard to the point of being brittle. They shine on their own, but can be snaded and/or polished to a smoother finish and more gloss. These are still used without a clear coat on boats, buses, industrial equipment, big trucks, etc.

Then came clear coat finishes that we have today. In a clear coat finish there is minimal color paint. Like two very thin coats of a paint that is almost like water. It covers the primer and adds color. This is top coated with a heavier layer of clear, normally polyurethane, but it can be acrylic enamel (catalyzed or not). You can lightly sand and/or polish the clear coat, but if you get down to the color coat, you are in trouble. There isn't enough paint film thickness to do anything to this layer.

The clear coat protects the color coat and prevents most of the damage and fading in the color coat. But if the color coat fades, the only thing you can do is to repaint the car. The color coat can be just about anything. BMW uses a water based clear. Lacquer colors were used in the early days since lacquers dry very quickly. There is NO shine to the color coat, the shine is in the clear coat.

For a timeline, cars up to the 70s had enamel or lacquer finishes. In the 70s acrylic enamels were the norm. Catalyzed acrylic enamel and polyurethane came in late 70s. Clear coats became popular in the 80s and continue today, although custom paint jobs had been doing clear coat with lacquers back in the 60s. The old stick your hand into the finish 30 coats of hand rubbed lacquer paint jobs. It was even required with metal flake or pearl paints, and even some metallics. Some custom jobs used tinted "clear" coats for modify the look, then covered with a true clear. Laer some of these finishes moved to acrylic enamels.

I have painted cars in all but true enamels, but anyone who has used a spray can has used enamels. :)

The easiest for "home" use are the acrylic eanmels and catalyzed acrylic enamels. Clear coat is not hard, but just extra steps of cleaning the gun after the color to shoot the clear. Acrlic enamels and polyurethanes flow out nicely to natural shines if applied well.