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View Full Version : Methane\Water injection in place of Intercooler?


roadwarrior687
06-26-2006, 05:56 PM
Hey All,

I posted this on bimmerforums also. We have some VF charged cars here to though so posting it here as well;

I've had my '02 540i VF supercharged for about two weeks. Everything is fine and running great except for getting heatsoaked. Being in Southern Cal my car tends to heat up and I can really notice the horsepower loss when hot.

I got my dynoed (322rwhp btw) at a local dyno shop that does alot of vortech units on mustangs. I mentioned the heatsoak issue and they mentioned using a Methane mixed with Water injection to cool the charge using the windshield washer resevoir to hold the mixture. This seems to be something used for vortechs for years. Since I am a real newbie here, is a Methane\Water injection (~$400) a real viable alternative to an intercooler (~$2200)?

Thanks!

Sc'd540i6
07-07-2006, 05:50 PM
Hi Richard,

How did they explain that system would work? They have a flammable gas permiated in water, and they are using it how? A jacket over the inlet tube behind the charger?

I don't get it.:dunno:

iversonm
07-08-2006, 08:18 PM
I don't get it.:dunno:

I think he's referring to methanol, not methane.

If not, perhaps fart injection is going to take the world by storm. :confused:

firedwg1
07-10-2006, 06:05 PM
I think he's referring to methanol, not methane.



I think you are correct... since he was talking about mustangs I researched it. Here is one of many websites

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0407mm_snow/photo_01.html

BTW I think my exhaust barrings need to be replaced... maybe this guy can help me find new ones... J/K

jimmyz2
08-03-2006, 10:12 AM
Water injection helps but really is like a band-aid.You should get charge cooling(inter or aftercooler) to help cool down your IAT's.

Jon@TheMshop
08-03-2006, 01:45 PM
Water injection helps but really is like a band-aid.You should get charge cooling(inter or aftercooler) to help cool down your IAT's.

ICS Performance made an air to air intercooler setup on a 540i but there is no kit available.

VF engineering won't come out with a stage 2 kit/upgrade probably till next year.

4cammer72
10-07-2006, 10:39 AM
meth injection is more than just a bandaid. i have a turboed 2.3 ford with a holset and it reduces detonation and straight methonol will make up for not enough injector size while increasing horse power. can you say 32lbs of boost?

chimmike
10-11-2006, 07:10 AM
This idea has been tried on other cars, and it has turned out to be dangerous.

Essentially what was said is true, meth/alky/water injection is merely a band-aid to allow higher boost than on straight pump gas. Unfortunately, you can't run on meth injection the entire time you're running the car. With a supercharger and the enormous heat they create in compression, it's terribly unwise to run without an intercooler.

jimmyz2
10-22-2006, 01:24 PM
meth injection is more than just a bandaid. i have a turboed 2.3 ford with a holset and it reduces detonation and straight methonol will make up for not enough injector size while increasing horse power. can you say 32lbs of boost?

I can say 32lbs. of boost,but I just cannot say,"Fo.d".

ZeroG
10-24-2006, 09:49 AM
The most common manufacture of what you are referring too is Aquamist. It is also known as Water Injection. Active Auto Werke makes a knock off kit as well. It work by sparying the liquid in the intake tract as a form of a mist. It is usually good for 5 or 6 octane points in reducing detonation.

In my opinion it is not a replacement for and Intercooler.

FTT843
11-03-2006, 01:47 PM
................ Alky injection is NOT a band-aid. Road warior i have know idead who quoted you $2200 for an IC but thats friggin nuts. You can pick up a Spearco 1080 cfm unit for around $500 and its practically the best IC your gonna get, and its got same side inlet/outlet so running pipes to it is easier. Megasquirt (alky injection) probly isnt the best application for "you" because it really only prevents detonation from running high psi#'s, It will cool down the intake charge, but you will see much better results from a large IC up front.

jimmyz2
11-07-2006, 05:21 PM
................ Alky injection is NOT a band-aid. Road warior i have know idead who quoted you $2200 for an IC but thats friggin nuts. You can pick up a Spearco 1080 cfm unit for around $500 and its practically the best IC your gonna get, and its got same side inlet/outlet so running pipes to it is easier. Megasquirt (alky injection) probly isnt the best application for "you" because it really only prevents detonation from running high psi#'s, It will cool down the intake charge, but you will see much better results from a large IC up front.


Ask ANY reputable tuner---go aftercooler/intercooler first or go home.

jimmyz2
11-07-2006, 05:21 PM
................ Alky injection is NOT a band-aid. Road warior i have know idead who quoted you $2200 for an IC but thats friggin nuts. You can pick up a Spearco 1080 cfm unit for around $500 and its practically the best IC your gonna get, and its got same side inlet/outlet so running pipes to it is easier. Megasquirt (alky injection) probly isnt the best application for "you" because it really only prevents detonation from running high psi#'s, It will cool down the intake charge, but you will see much better results from a large IC up front.


Ask ANY reputable tuner---go aftercooler/intercooler first or go home.

98 540i/6 VF SC
03-06-2009, 06:04 PM
Hello, I am a new user and am here to say hello to all my fellow BMW fans, you have great taste in cars.

98 540i/6 VF SC
03-06-2009, 06:09 PM
I am running a BMW E39 540i with a VF Engineering Supercharger Stage one for now. The car is making 376 at the rear wheels according to the Dyno at VF on an 80 degree day. I am in LOVE with the car and the hp. It feels like the difference between a 600 cc sport bake and a 1000 cc. Night and Day.

Here is my car on the VFE dyno.

Video: http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp348/Sean-VF/E39%20540/?action=view&current=MOV07191.flv

I have ordered a Labonte Meth system and Group 5 Motorsport is installing it net week.

Do any of you all have experience with a Methanol system?

roadwarrior687
03-11-2009, 12:58 PM
I am running a BMW E39 540i with a VF Engineering Supercharger Stage one for now. The car is making 376 at the rear wheels according to the Dyno at VF on an 80 degree day. I am in LOVE with the car and the hp. It feels like the difference between a 600 cc sport bake and a 1000 cc. Night and Day.

Here is my car on the VFE dyno.

Video: http://s426.photobucket.com/albums/pp348/Sean-VF/E39%20540/?action=view&current=MOV07191.flv

I have ordered a Labonte Meth system and Group 5 Motorsport is installing it net week.

Do any of you all have experience with a Methanol system?

Did you order the boost based (ISG-25) or MAF based (ISG-MAF) Labonte system?

When you dynoed at VF did they give you an AFR reading? The VF system runs really rich I'm at 10.5-11 and the Meth/Water system makes the tune run even richer which will make you lose power. I talked to Dan at Labonte and he said I should run straight water for now just to cool my intake temps but not add .5 point rich with the meth too.

Did you goto the Oakley/Vorsteiner/MFEST meet on March 7th?

p.s. Yes, the title of this thread has a typo..should be methanol/water :p

liquidsmoke
11-02-2010, 06:28 AM
Hi,
I only just bought my E39 540 manual on sunday this week. I kind of bought it with a view to supercharge it. I to am a little disappointed that the kits don't come with intercoolers/chargecoolers. I am really interested in you guys experiences with getting more out the VF or ESS SC kits. I noticed that the VF kits do run very rich. Much richer than I would tune them; however that is kind of good if you want to run 8/10psi and more power as it gives a bit of room for manouver.

Do you guys have any dyno graphs you could send me? Any pics of intercooler installs? I'd like to know how the SC kits build boost...ie, when does it reach max boost of 6/8psi?
I have a water/meth injection system on my Nissan 200sx S13 (track toy); but the thing is with them is that you only really want them coming on when you need them i.e: over 6psi in this application. Otherwise your forever running out of water!

Cheers!

franka
11-17-2010, 02:07 PM
Water and/or methanol or ethanol alcohol are sprayed into the intake track to cool the intake charge via heat of evaporation. It takes heat to evapaorate the water and alcohol and it comes from the heat in the compressed intake charge thus cooling the charge

A couple points have not yet been mentioned that are in addition to the above.

Alcohol raises the octane rating of the charge, and the mist water, still in liquid form, turns to super heated steam in the combustion chamber expanding to apprx 1,000 times it's original liquid water volume at atmospheric pressure. That is what makes steam engines so powerful.

Still an intercooler is by far the best way to go.

franka
11-17-2010, 02:11 PM
[QUOTE=liquidsmoke;5592002]Hi,
I only just bought my E39 540 manual on sunday this week. I kind of bought it with a view to supercharge it. I to am a little disappointed that the kits don't come with intercoolers/chargecoolers. I am really interested in you guys experiences with getting more out the VF or ESS SC kits. I noticed that the VF kits do run very rich. Much richer than I would tune them; however that is kind of good if you want to run 8/10psi and more power as it gives a bit of room for manouver.[QUOTE]


No intercooler with SCr is to keep the price/cost of the SCr down.

liquidsmoke
11-17-2010, 02:57 PM
$7k - cheap as chips! LOL ;)

franka
11-17-2010, 03:12 PM
$7k - cheap as chips! LOL ;)


I get it but it beats over $ 10K for an entry price if intercooler is included.

liquidsmoke
11-18-2010, 02:24 AM
I guess I'm used to cheap Nissan parts :) I think I would just sort my own IC for that, get a 2nd hand one from something; only needs a mount and some pipework :)

JasonSC540ia
11-20-2010, 10:27 PM
Guys

Check this site out. I plan on doing a custom set-up as soon as I get back. Everything should be about $600.


http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?osCsid=b5666617394497755c3b4e35655df8d7

franka
11-21-2010, 08:22 AM
A little nitrous spray would cool things down too, but you would have to add fuel in proportion to the NO2, not to mention the extra hp you would get. :)

franka
11-21-2010, 08:23 AM
Guys

Check this site out. I plan on doing a custom set-up as soon as I get back. Everything should be about $600.


http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?osCsid=b5666617394497755c3b4e35655df8d7

It should be fun. Good luck

Marks63catalina
11-21-2010, 09:01 AM
There's another methanol injection company ouy there that's pretty popular with the turbo guys. It's called SNOW, but I don't remember the full name.

http://www.snowperformance.net/


Mark L

franka
11-21-2010, 10:24 AM
There are at least 10 mfgrs of injection systems out there , just Google it.

I've been reading them and it comes down to two important aspects of a good system. A higher pressure pumper for the best atomization and therefore best cooling and a progressive boost controller that adds more alky/h2o as pressure rises.

franka
11-21-2010, 10:28 AM
Check out

http://www.coolingmist.com

They have all kinds of systems and/or components

Oldman M Coupe
11-22-2010, 05:22 PM
I have SC M coupe( 9 lbs boost) I added a meth kit 39% meth to water. Car is not tuned with kit but I do feel the difference when it sprays, cools charge and stops, if any, detonation. I also added a oil cooler in line to SC help keep it a little cooler. Sometimes there is really no room for a aftercooler as in my car, without it looking like a plumbers nitemare.