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View Full Version : Where The Hell Did Real Wax Jobs Go?


woody underwood
08-04-2006, 08:43 PM
Guess I'm a dinosaur...but thought I'd spread a bit of wax on the ZHP this evening before driving school. Gee, it's 80 degrees out there (Too hot to use by the directions BTW) Spread it out any way, let it dry and then wiped it off...ickooo slimy as hell after two wipe downs! And this is Meguire's best stuff. So the question is: In the 60's it was Dupont #7 to get the goo off and make the paint shiny, then some Simonize...it always came out absolutely beautiful. And it was easy and cheap. I've tried every "new" product on the market, they just don't make it like they used to.

rkhavari
08-04-2006, 08:47 PM
I never thought I'd spend $40-50 on car wax, but the Klasse Starter Kit was the best investment I made. Check it out at http://www.superiorcarcare.net/klkit.html

Hope this helps!

avalys
08-05-2006, 07:46 AM
You need some Zaino (http://zainobros.com).

Pinecone
08-05-2006, 01:44 PM
So you don't follow the directions and then complain that the product didn't work right?

The old wax jobs you rave about didn't last very long and did minimal protecting of the paint. And they were harder to do. Good riddance.

ryanzak
08-05-2006, 03:42 PM
My vote for sure is Zaino! I just did it 3 weeks ago, amazing..

picus
08-05-2006, 06:29 PM
Guess I'm a dinosaur...but thought I'd spread a bit of wax on the ZHP this evening before driving school. Gee, it's 80 degrees out there (Too hot to use by the directions BTW) Spread it out any way, let it dry and then wiped it off...ickooo slimy as hell after two wipe downs! And this is Meguire's best stuff. So the question is: In the 60's it was Dupont #7 to get the goo off and make the paint shiny, then some Simonize...it always came out absolutely beautiful. And it was easy and cheap. I've tried every "new" product on the market, they just don't make it like they used to.


Sounds like you need a wax that'll work in the sun. I'd suggest Poorboys Nattys Blue, available online.

woody underwood
08-05-2006, 06:41 PM
Sounds like you need a wax that'll work in the sun. I'd suggest Poorboys Nattys Blue, available online.
Nah, this was at night in my garage. My real rant was all the "hot" stuff on the market today is just goo...not real wax. It's gotta be out there somewhere! And don't send me off to Zymol/Zaino cause' I don't like to wax my car monthly. A real good wax job is WORK...that's why you get that "ahhhhh, accomplished something" feeling after you do it. No car care company IMHO has come up with anything yet that makes it easy.

woody underwood
08-05-2006, 07:02 PM
So you don't follow the directions and then complain that the product didn't work right?

The old wax jobs you rave about didn't last very long and did minimal protecting of the paint. And they were harder to do. Good riddance.
Bull, it's been over 90 here for months so I can't wax my car? A good Simonize wax job back in the 60's would last a year and still bead up. Clear coat protects paint now...all the crappy wax on the market today (Mostly silicone loaded goo) only makes it shiny. My job in high school was tending to my neighbor's black 58 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser, that's the one with the rear window that went up and down. She paid me $100 to detail and wax it monthly...pretty good for a high school kid in 1960. I know how to wax a car...believe me.

PhilH
08-05-2006, 07:11 PM
Klasse All-In-One is great. I've been using it since I bought my 330i. I actually used it today in my garage. It's a liquid "goo", but that just makes it a bit easier to apply. It lasts for months and looks and feels awesome when you're done.

http://www.superiorcarcare.net/klalpo.html

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/everythingautomotive_1909_10526570

avalys
08-05-2006, 07:23 PM
Nah, this was at night in my garage. My real rant was all the "hot" stuff on the market today is just goo...not real wax. It's gotta be out there somewhere! And don't send me off to Zymol/Zaino cause' I don't like to wax my car monthly. A real good wax job is WORK...that's why you get that "ahhhhh, accomplished something" feeling after you do it. No car care company IMHO has come up with anything yet that makes it easy.
I don't get it - you complain that waxing is too much work, then say a good wax job is WORK, like that's a good thing, and then complain that no product makes it easy: i.e, they all require a lot of work.

What do you want? Do you want it to be a lot of work, or do you want it to be easy?

Spend a few hours and put a few coats of Zaino on, and that'll last you 6-9 months, looking great all the while (with occasional washing).

"Real wax" is not what you're looking for - it will barely last a month.

As for Simoniz, the only time I've ever heard that name is when a shady dealer is trying to sell some kind of crap "5-year super-Teflon paint protection system". They sound like a bunch of sleazeballs to me - are you saying they once sold wax directly to consumers?

Again: what are you looking for? You can find "real wax", and it will protect your paint and look good for about a month before it degrades. But that's not the best stuff available anymore. Technology moves on. If you can get over your hangup about "goo", and try something more modern, polymer sealants like Klasse and Zaino will look great, perform great, and protect your paint for 6-9 months. They're also quite easy to apply. And frankly, in my opinion they're much less gooey than real wax is.

avalys
08-05-2006, 07:31 PM
Bull, it's been over 90 here for months so I can't wax my car? A good Simonize wax job back in the 60's would last a year and still bead up. Clear coat protects paint now...all the crappy wax on the market today (Mostly silicone loaded goo) only makes it shiny.
Oh, bull yourself. :) Do you have any evidence to back that claim up? What's wrong with silicone, and "goo"? What makes you think a product made up of crap scraped off palm tree leaves (carnauba) is any better than a modern, "gooey" product? What do you have against goo anyways?

Sounds to me like you're just automatically assuming that everything modern must be crap. Maybe we should go back to steel dashboards, steel-spike steering columns, and bias-ply tires too?

Kzang
08-05-2006, 08:21 PM
Technology has caught up with you Mr. 1960...

Wax on the market these days are 100 times better than it used to be.

Today after a car wash at a local handwash, I bought a quick wax (spray) and quick detailer (spary) made by Meguiars. Sprayed on the wax, spread it on the body, wiped it clean with a MF cloth and my car is waxed, shiny and awesome looking. Took me about 30 min.

johnnygraphic
08-05-2006, 10:13 PM
Guess I'm a dinosaur...but thought I'd spread a bit of wax on the ZHP this evening before driving school. Gee, it's 80 degrees out there (Too hot to use by the directions BTW) Spread it out any way, let it dry and then wiped it off...ickooo slimy as hell after two wipe downs! And this is Meguire's best stuff. So the question is: In the 60's it was Dupont #7 to get the goo off and make the paint shiny, then some Simonize...it always came out absolutely beautiful. And it was easy and cheap. I've tried every "new" product on the market, they just don't make it like they used to.

O.K. I think everybody here needs to calm down a little bit. Don't jump all over the guy for an honest days work eh! :)

Woody-I think it might be a good idea if you let us know exactly what product you used and what you're looking for in a wax. Yes, today's paints are very different from back in the day. I'm a polish/real carnuba wax kind of guy. In fact, I just finished using Menzerna's Final Polish II and Pinnacle Souverain Carnuba Wax on my Imola Red ZHP! Granted, the Pinnacle wax won't last longer than 6 mos, but it works best with my color.

However, if you're looking for a long lasting shine and a 'hard' coat, you might want to check out some glazes. Menzerna makes one called FMJ or Full Molecular Jacket. This tends to be more of a mirror like shine, where the Pinnacle is a deeper shine.

Anyway, I'm sorry your wax turned to goo, I hope that you get everything sorted out.

Johnny

noego
08-06-2006, 07:03 AM
you want something that won't rip, tear, snag or tangle? is great for molds, colds and sore a$$holes? will make child birth a pleasure?

try Zaino. you won't be sorry.

Maximus57
08-06-2006, 08:26 AM
I tried some stuff called Glanzwax. I love this stuff. goes on easy and comes off without any residue.

TOGWT
08-06-2006, 08:46 AM
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
The polymers and waxes used for detailing are semi-solid; they are actually a very concentrated solution in an organic solvent or aqueous emulsion. For application differences see ‘Polish Directional Application’
1.Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule, which forms a bond with the paint; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow, polymers (Zaino, Klasse, Rejex, etc) have better durability than wax
2.Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface, wax adheres to the paint surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Brazilian Carnauba wax is usually blended with natural oils (to provide gloss) and modern polymers (to provide shine)
3.Colour, Depth and Clarity- the three factors concourse judges look for when scrutinizing paint film surfaces. Of the three, optical clarity is of primary importance, being able to see the paint film’s true colour by having a really clean surface, clarity will enable depth of shine etc to be seen. Carnauba wax dries to a deep, natural shine; in contrast, bees wax, paraffin and many synthetic waxes tend to occlude (cloud or yellow).
4.Adherence initially Carnauba wax attaches itself by surface tension; during the curing process the carrier system (solvents / oils) attach themselves to the porous microscopic caps in the paint surface forming a physical anchor. Carnauba wax dries to a deep, natural shine (in contrast, bees wax, paraffin and many synthetic waxes tend to cloud and occlude)
5.Fracture/evaporation temperatures (Melting points)- Polymers 350oF+, Silicone oil 350oF, Mineral oils 200oF, Synthetic blends (wax / polymers) 200oF, Carnauba wax 180oF, and Bee’s wax 130oF, in actual practice the high temperatures frequently encountered by vehicles from the radiation causes wax compounds to melt, for example, a painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 85oF in direct sunlight, will obtain a temperature of 195 degrees or more
6.Bonding a molecular bond is formed when polymers cross-link to other molecules, resulting in a solid, durable protective layer. Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer; conversely if a polymer is applied on top of Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised.
7.Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with oils will abort the cross-linking or bonding process of a polymer just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability maybe affected. (See also Cross-linking and Adherence)

avalys
08-06-2006, 09:00 AM
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
The polymers and waxes used for detailing are semi-solid; they are actually a very concentrated solution in an organic solvent or aqueous emulsion. For application differences see ‘Polish Directional Application
Hey TOGWT, where did you get this from? Can you post the section labeled "Polish Directional Application"? I'm curious as to what difference it makes.

TOGWT
08-06-2006, 10:11 AM
Hey TOGWT, where did you get this from? Can you post the section labeled "Polish Directional Application"? I'm curious as to what difference it makes.


AUTOMOTIVE DETAILING INSIDE & OUT A KNOWLEDGE BASE FOR THE PERFECTIONIST Jon Miller aka TOGWT

Product Directional Application:
•Polish- these products contain abrasives and should be applied in straight-line motions (Forget what Mr. Miyagi was teaching the Karate Kid) circular motions will cause circular directional marks (swirl marks)

When an abrasive is applied by hand the pressure applied is uneven and the reflected light highlights the peaks and valleys differently.
•Sealant, Glaze or Wax- these products are all non-abrasive so direction of application won’t cause directional marks to the surface.
•Machine application-although a machine applies product in circular motions the pressure applied is very even (unlike a hand application) so the light is reflected evenly.
•Optimising light refraction - apply product in ‘direction of airflow’, paint horizontal surfaces hood to trunk, vertical surfaces front to back. This application technique affects the paints optical properties by optimising the surface light refraction as paint is applied in a side-to-side motion not circular, it also highlights the reflectivity of the bodylines and contours of the vehicle

picus
08-06-2006, 01:43 PM
Nah, this was at night in my garage. My real rant was all the "hot" stuff on the market today is just goo...not real wax. It's gotta be out there somewhere! And don't send me off to Zymol/Zaino cause' I don't like to wax my car monthly. A real good wax job is WORK...that's why you get that "ahhhhh, accomplished something" feeling after you do it. No car care company IMHO has come up with anything yet that makes it easy.

I have unfortunate news; "real waxes", meaning waxes with high carnauba content, tend to have poor duability (in general). Most of them will last 4-6 weeks in normal conditions.

I'm confused whether or not you want something easy or something that is work.

Elvis530i
08-06-2006, 02:37 PM
I can't decide if the OP is a troll or just totally clueless about detailing. :dunno:

Very little of what he's said makes any sense to me. :confused:

woody underwood
08-06-2006, 02:58 PM
Boy do I have a knack for shaking the thread tree or what? Anyway, got the car waxed just fine and did it at night while it was under 90 here.... And used Meguires products. My complaint was simply that most of the stuff marketed is basically worthless, so relax everybody. I've come to the conclusion that wax is a lot like hair shampoo, everybody uses what they like best! Oh yeah...I don't own any cars with bias ply tires, even the TR-6 has radials! (OEM BTW)

Elvis530i
08-06-2006, 09:10 PM
Meguiar's :thumbup:

Shabba
08-07-2006, 07:59 AM
Nah, this was at night in my garage. My real rant was all the "hot" stuff on the market today is just goo...not real wax. It's gotta be out there somewhere! And don't send me off to Zymol/Zaino cause' I don't like to wax my car monthly. A real good wax job is WORK...that's why you get that "ahhhhh, accomplished something" feeling after you do it. No car care company IMHO has come up with anything yet that makes it easy.

Hey Woody, let's not forget that most paint back in the day was acryllic enamel, not the basecoat/clearcoat of today. It's gonna wax differently and look different today. That and the wax today is, as everyone says, easier to use and requires less effort for a decent result. My father is very old school so I know EXACTLY where you are coming from on this.:thumbup:

DRWWE
08-07-2006, 09:00 AM
Try P21S. It is a paste type wax ("real wax") and is not difficult to apply or buff off and looks great. Not as long-lasting as the polymers discussed above but maybe it will be good for you. It isn't "goo" like the stuff in bottles (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I tried Meguiars paste wax several years ago and did not like it at all because I found it difficult to apply and buff off and then, after all that work, I was unhappy with the shine.

joyriiide1113
08-07-2006, 09:03 AM
You're an idiot. You woke me from my zero for zero post count. Everything you have said has either come out of your arse or contradicted yourself. Get out of here you ol' fart.

I'm going back to my sleep.

Faxe
08-07-2006, 09:11 AM
Well done joyriide1113, - 3 posts here at bimmerfest and already using such a language...

DRWWE
08-07-2006, 09:50 AM
You're an idiot. You woke me from my zero for zero post count. Everything you have said has either come out of your arse or contradicted yourself. Get out of here you ol' fart.

I'm going back to my sleep.


Who are you? This man is asking for some help.

You post is inappropriate. Rude. Pointless.

vern
08-07-2006, 01:27 PM
[QUOTE=picus]I have unfortunate news; "real waxes", meaning waxes with high carnauba content, tend to have poor duability (in general). Most of them will last 4-6 weeks in normal conditions.
I've been using P21S Carnauba Wax on all of the BMW's (4) that I have owned and wash the cars on average of every 1 to 2 weeks with Turtle Wax Car Wash. My wax jobs with P21S, 2 coats, last as much as 6 months so what your saying about 4-6 weeks for Carnauba Wax is B/S.
cheers
vern

picus
08-07-2006, 01:50 PM
[
I've been using P21S Carnauba Wax on all of the BMW's (4) that I have owned and wash the cars on average of every 1 to 2 weeks with Turtle Wax Car Wash. My wax jobs with P21S, 2 coats, last as much as 6 months so what your saying about 4-6 weeks for Carnauba Wax is B/S.
cheers
vern

Hi vern, just a note that I said "most of them", not "all of them". P21S is not a wax that is typically considered "durable". I suspect that your wax is not lasting 6 months, but you're judging the longevity by beading. Un-waxed paint will bead water, by the way. For what it's worth, I've been detailing cars for almost a decade now and have tried probably 100 carnauba waxes (liquids and pastes) and I can think of 4 or 5 off the top of my head that will last 6 months or more under what is considered normal use. Perhaps if you're still interested in exploring the longevity of specific waxes you might head over to Autopia.org and post a thread asking what kind of durability people typically see from P21S.

Edit: here's a recent discussion about P21S's durabilty (note, S100 and P21S are the same): http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75324&highlight=P21S+durability or http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74240&highlight=P21S+durability or http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=62156&highlight=P21S+durability

Cheers,

Kevin

jbrannon7
08-07-2006, 04:15 PM
I have unfortunate news; "real waxes", meaning waxes with high carnauba content, tend to have poor duability (in general). Most of them will last 4-6 weeks in normal conditions.

I'm confused whether or not you want something easy or something that is work.

I am not taking sides and I don't know a lot about chemistry, BUT back in the day we waxed every friday afternoon for the weekend cruises. So it only had to last a week.

picus
08-07-2006, 04:46 PM
I am not taking sides and I don't know a lot about chemistry, BUT back in the day we waxed every friday afternoon for the weekend cruises. So it only had to last a week.

I understand; in fact as a detailer you can imagine how often I wax my own car. I don't care about durabilty at all for my personal vehicles. That said, many people do not wax their cars regularly, so durabilty does play a role in their choice of wax or sealant. I originally said that *most* waxes have a lifespan of about 4-6 weeks in response to the OP mentioning he didn't want to wax his car once a month. I think that is accurate. About 90% of the waxes I can think of would fall into this category.

Cheers.

Johnz3mc
08-07-2006, 08:29 PM
We're onto page 2 of the responses and nobody has suggested Collinite waxes yet.

Woody, you might want to give the Collinite waxes a try if you want an old school type wax that lasts and lasts. Do a search and you'll discover they make a couple of offerings, an insulator wax #845 that is an emulsion (sort of) and a fleet wax #476 that is a paste type.
Both have a great reputation for durability and lasting power and both have a good shine factor.
I actually use the insulator wax on my winter driver and have been very pleased with the results.
As an aside, I had a 69 TR6 for many years and still appreciate them to no end.
-John C.

joyriiide1113
08-08-2006, 08:21 AM
Who are you? This man is asking for some help.

You post is inappropriate. Rude. Pointless.


Won't happen again...

woody underwood
08-08-2006, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the support guys and the apology! I've noticed not many Zymol testimonials here so here's a good story. It used to be my wax of choice, but after a trip back east with the car waxed to the max...we hit a pretty bad rainstorm in Pennsylvania which completely stripped the car of shiny stuff. After arriving in New Hampshire for that years O Fest I caught a bunch of crap from Zymol Chuck about bringing my car to a show not even waxed! Well, after my explanation...he waxed the car for me. But it was a bit late to save my loyalty... haven't used it since.

HW
08-08-2006, 02:27 PM
meguiar's good old fashion wax user here. not really crazy about the polymer stuff.

icemanjs4
08-09-2006, 04:54 PM
My complaint was simply that most of the stuff marketed is basically worthless, so relax everybody. I've come to the conclusion that wax is a lot like hair shampoo, everybody uses what they like best!

Hey Woody, I've seen you around here for a long time, so I won't bother bashing you or anything silly like that.

My question for you is this: What makes you think that a product like Zaino is basically worthless? From everything I've seen across numerous peoples' cars including my own, the Zaino lasts for at least 6 months consistently. It also helps preserve a brilliant shine. So what, from you experience, leads you to believe it is a bad product?

Zaino is very different from Zymol. So leave out your past Zymol experience. Klasse, is similar to Zaino in its duration and its fan base. And until I see some evidence proving otherwise, I'm going to believe that both Zaino and Klasse really are effective.

Elvis530i
08-09-2006, 05:10 PM
meguiar's good old fashion wax user here. not really crazy about the polymer stuff.

:stupid: