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View Full Version : First dry weather run for the Dinan Stg II


PropellerHead
12-05-2002, 02:57 PM
I posted yesterday about the Dinan stg II software download I recieved from a freind's shop for some other work I did for him. It was pooring all the rain on me yesterday that turned to snow for the East coast, so I couldn't get a good feel for it. Today, however:

Nice crisp day with the temperature alternating between making the car "gong" and not. Took it for a nice full power run and shifted before the new rev limiter at ab 6300 RPM's. I never thought the exhaust would sound that much better with only a few more revs, but it really does- and without the center resonator, it really sings inside the car.

Shift into second and the car swearved sideways as the wheels struggled for traction. Damn!, I thought. As I checked my speed- over 65mph- 0-60 in second- nice!

I stopped it there as I was already about 10 over the speed limit and didn't want to kill anyone.

In all, I am a very impressed skeptic. Someone posed the thought that it is likely just a placebo effect, but I submit that I didn't pay a dime for it, and didn't even expect to be doing it. I had no expectations and ended up being very surprised. It's much stronger in the mid range. While I rarely see redline, it's definately stronger up there, too. All in all a pretty fun upgrade.

And you can't beat the price. Or, I couldn't.:bigpimp:

JetBlack330i
12-05-2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by PropellerHead

In all, I am a very impressed skeptic. Someone posed the thought that it is likely just a placebo effect, but I submit that I didn't pay a dime for it, and didn't even expect to be doing it. I had no expectations and ended up being very surprised.
You don't have to pay to be aflicted by placebo effect.
From your description, I'm guessing...
It was cold. You car performs better just by dropping the temperature.
It was slippery from yesterday's rain. You wheels slipping and sliding doesn't indicate much.
Try and get a G-tech or something more accurate than gut feel. There are well published 0-60 times out there (6.1 s is the time to beat). Let's see how it compares.

nate
12-05-2002, 04:50 PM
The Dinan software made a significant change on my car, it was not a placebo effect

PropellerHead
12-05-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
You don't have to pay to be aflicted by placebo effect.
From your description, I'm guessing...
It was cold. You car performs better just by dropping the temperature. It's been cold for a month, now. It wasn't 90 degrees two days ago, raining yesterday and 37 degrees today.It was slippery from yesterday's rain. You wheels slipping and sliding doesn't indicate much. Except that the streets *I* drive on are asphalt, not sponges. The streets dry when the rain stops for a day and if anything, are less slippery as the rain washed the oil from the road.Try and get a G-tech or something more accurate than gut feel. There are well published 0-60 times out there (6.1 s is the time to beat). Let's see how it compares. A G-TECH is the biggest joke on the planet. Anything, including a 1/4 mile run would be irrelevant since we have nothing from my same car to compare it to. The only thing we DO have from my same car *IS* my gut, and that's what I was writing about.

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
The Dinan software made a significant change on my car, it was not a placebo effect
What makes you say that?
Care to elaborate?

nate
12-06-2002, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
What makes you say that?
Care to elaborate?

Um, it was noticably faster, better mid range power and response...

Higher rev limiter, no top speed governor

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by PropellerHead
It's been cold for a month, now.
But it was summer for 4 months. So you're saying your gut feel can adapt quickly and accurately.
Next time you get in your car, do a quick check. Guess the outside temp *before* looking at the thermometer. Do that over several days, see how you adapt to changes.

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Um, it was noticably faster, better mid range power and response...

And that alone makes you say it was definitely not a placebo effect...
I wonder why people need to use placebo pills in medical research. Just ask the patients: Are you feeling better than before?

nate
12-06-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
And that alone makes you say it was definitely not a placebo effect...
I wonder why people need to use placebo pills in medical research. Just ask the patients: Are you feeling better than before?

Besides the fact that it is faster than any other stock 328 that I have driven? Faster than when before?

Do you think that I'm an idiot that can't notice a change like that?

You don't buy that software upgrades are useful?

If there is a placebo effect (:rolleyes: ), then it has made me a faster driver.

Ask any M52TU owner with software upgrades, they will have noticed a change as well :rolleyes:

PropellerHead
12-06-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
But it was summer for 4 months. So you're saying your gut feel can adapt quickly and accurately.
Next time you get in your car, do a quick check. Guess the outside temp *before* looking at the thermometer. Do that over several days, see how you adapt to changes.

And I drove the car for a winter before it was summer.:rolleyes:

Yes, I am saying that my gut can notice that it was cold on Monday, Dec 2 and the car performed better than it did on July 4th. Any moron knows that air temperature affects performance. It was also cold on Thursday Dec 5 after the Dinan software and the car ran better than it did the previous Monday (when, by the way, it was cold).

Despite the relationship between temperature and performance, my ability to guess the temperature has Zero to do with my ability to discern the way my car performs from one day-or for that matter-one season to the next.

Don't like it or doubt it all you want- I too was skeptical, so I understand where your comments come from but try to keep them on target.

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci

If there is a placebo effect (:rolleyes: ), then it has made me a faster driver.

That is the definition of placebo effect, isn't it? People feel better just knowing that they are taking some medication...

Originally posted by nate328Ci

Ask any M52TU owner with software upgrades, they will have noticed a change as well

You're an M52TU owner with software upgrade, right?
I'm asking you to produce acceptable evidence that software upgrades alone, specifically Dinan, produces measurable hp gains.
The fact that you now drive faster is not evidence. Because you are a better driver now doesn't mean the car is stronger.

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by PropellerHead

Don't like it or doubt it all you want- I too was skeptical, so I understand where your comments come from but try to keep them on target.
I dwelled into that argument for fun, and also to establish the credibility of your claims.
However, I agree that it's not on target. Although, it is related - we already agree that temp is directly related to hp, so if your gut can feel change in temp, theoretically you could discern a change in hp and compensate for that. But true, even if we could establish that your gut is 100% accurate, it still doesn't prove that Dinan software improved the performance of your car.
For all we know, Dinan software could be doing nothing but to change the linearity of the DBW response curve. That could explain the "faster response" feel that you observe.
Bottom line: gut feel is fine to convince yourself. I'd really like to see more concrete data such as dyno charts or even a lowly G-tech run.

nate
12-06-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
That is the definition of placebo effect, isn't it? People feel better just knowing that they are taking some medication...

Yes, I'm challenging you to produce acceptable evidence that software upgrades alone, specifically Dinan, produces measurable hp gains.
The fact that you now drive faster is not evidence. Because you are a better driver now doesn't mean the car is stronger.

Since you will never accept that it is effective, I'm not going to argue with you any more.

If you don't believe their gains, fine, they have graphs on their site. It was faster. I think that I am capable in noticing changes in a car that I have owned for more than 3 years.

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
... they have graphs on their site. It was faster.
Which one? The one that Dinan itself says that it produces zero hp gain?

nate
12-06-2002, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
Which one? The one that Dinan itself says that it produces zero hp gain?

WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING THE M54!!

328 (M52TU): http://dinanbmw.com/Products/3series/328i/328i.html#1

540: http://dinanbmw.com/Products/5series/540i/540i.html#1

JetBlack330i
12-06-2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING THE M54!!

328 (M52TU): http://dinanbmw.com/Products/3series/328i/328i.html#1

540: http://dinanbmw.com/Products/5series/540i/540i.html#1
Thank you for the charts. They are interesting.
Unfortunately, I own a M54, so they are inconsequential to me.
Why do you think that Dinan can claim some hp gains on M52TU, but not on M54?

Nbtstatic
12-30-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by JetBlack330i
Thank you for the charts. They are interesting.
Unfortunately, I own a M54, so they are inconsequential to me.
Why do you think that Dinan can claim some hp gains on M52TU, but not on M54?

Someone sounds alittle jealous, lol. He's owned the car for THREE F***** years man! You don't think he could make a simple judgement of whether the car is a bit quicker now??? Give me a break...

BS540i
12-31-2002, 06:59 AM
Sounds like your results were about the same as mine. I recently put in my 2001 540i 6-speed the Dinan stage II software, carbon fiber air tube and filter and tail pipe exhaust repalcement muffler. This transformer my car to a much stronger somewhat peaky performer. The only prtoblem now is that I have trouble putting down the extra HP to the ground. It's still unbeliveable to me that BMW doesn't put a limited slip rear end in these cars.

The next upgrade I am thinking will be the 348 ratio limited slip rear end and the throttle body upgrade with stage III software, does anybody have any personal results on a 540i
with this investment?? :bigpimp: :dunno:

BS540i
12-31-2002, 07:08 AM
By the way I am an individual with over 40 plus cars in my history.
Everthing from Muscle cars, Vettes and 3 BMW's. this was no Placebo day dream effect!! :D :D