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Pinball81
12-11-2006, 12:32 PM
Purchased a '98 Imola Red M Roadster late last summer and have yet to truly detail the paint. The previous owner did a pretty good job, but the paint is almost 10 yrs old and could surely use a little more TLC.

I have read before that Red BMW paint does not have a clearcoat layer. Is this true?

What is the recommended paint cleansing/maintenance process for '98 Imola Red? If there truly is no clearcoat, I don't want to damage the paint. My plan is as follows:

1. Wash/dry with Dawn
2. Clay bar
3. Paint cleanser applied with random orbital buffer
4. Polish, also applied with ROB
5. Wax

Is this the procedure you guys would recommend? Please correct any misteps in this procedure and suggest your favorite products (so I can add them to my Christmas list). I am a detailing newbie and welcome any and all tips!

Thanks in advance!

jetstream23
12-11-2006, 02:11 PM
Purchased a '98 Imola Red M Roadster late last summer and have yet to truly detail the paint. The previous owner did a pretty good job, but the paint is almost 10 yrs old and could surely use a little more TLC.

I have read before that Red BMW paint does not have a clearcoat layer. Is this true?

What is the recommended paint cleansing/maintenance process for '98 Imola Red? If there truly is no clearcoat, I don't want to damage the paint. My plan is as follows:

1. Wash/dry with Dawn
2. Clay bar
3. Paint cleanser applied with random orbital buffer
4. Polish, also applied with ROB
5. Wax

Is this the procedure you guys would recommend? Please correct any misteps in this procedure and suggest your favorite products (so I can add them to my Christmas list). I am a detailing newbie and welcome any and all tips!

Thanks in advance!


I'm one of the people that thinks the Dawn washing is highly overrated. Since "Dawn gets grease out of your way" it has been recommended by those looking for an easy way to remove waxes from vehicles. Since the previous owner didn't do a great job keeping the car detailed it is unlikely there is even wax on it. I think you should use a gentle car shampoo (not something used to scrub dishes) like Meguiar's Gold Class with a soft sheepskin mitt and give your car a long, thorough wash. Following that, a good claybar routine would likely rid your car of several years worth of deposits that have accumulated. After claybaring you probably will want to wash again.

Once you've got the car clean you're ready to protect and shine. German paints are particularly fond of the acrylic sealer-waxes like Klasse. I've used Klasse All-in-One and Sealant Glaze to clean, protect and shine my car. I'd highly recommend that after your wash, claybar, wash routine. The great thing about Klasse is that it lasts 6 months and you can put a carnuaba wax on top of it for even greater shine if you'd like. Do a few searches in the Detail forums and you should be well on your way. Good luck and congrats on the ride!

EDIT: One step I forgot. If you've got light scratches, swirls, etc. you'll want to do some buffing. I'm not an expert on that but plenty of people around here are. There are various compounds and swirl removers that you can use with a random orbital. This would be done after wash, claybar, wash and before protecting, shining.

Pinball81
12-11-2006, 02:27 PM
JetStream, Thanks for the feedback. The paint is actually in pretty good condition -- just a few light scratches, swirl marks, etc. that a little bit of work should easily remove. The original owner took great care of the car -- it was always stored for the winters, rarely driven in rain, etc. I have waxed it a few times with Meguiar's Gold Class wax after washing with Meguiar's Gold Class Carwash.

Where can I purchase the Klasse products? Can I find them locally at Autozone or a similar store? Or do I need to order them online?

Thanks again!

dboy11
12-11-2006, 02:34 PM
JetStream, Thanks for the feedback. The paint is actually in pretty good condition -- just a few light scratches, swirl marks, etc. that a little bit of work should easily remove. The original owner took great care of the car -- it was always stored for the winters, rarely driven in rain, etc. I have waxed it a few times with Meguiar's Gold Class wax after washing with Meguiar's Gold Class Carwash.

Where can I purchase the Klasse products? Can I find them locally at Autozone or a similar store? Or do I need to order them online?

Thanks again!

You can find Klasse at any German car dealership...cheaper online if your not in a hurry.

Don't use dish soap on the car either a good car wash soap would be a better choice....dish soap really requires hot water to remove all if the soap residue, its really not the best choice for a car......I would recommend the clay its going to set up the paint for a better finish, then a polish would be what I would be doing, you have a minor swirls those come from washing and drying the car and impossible to stop form getting, then your klasse.

also invest in a good natural lambs wool mitt or natural sea sponge foe washing and some micro fiber towels for drying the car

Totoland
12-11-2006, 06:24 PM
Purchased a '98 Imola Red M Roadster late last summer and have yet to truly detail the paint. The previous owner did a pretty good job, but the paint is almost 10 yrs old and could surely use a little more TLC.

I have read before that Red BMW paint does not have a clearcoat layer. Is this true?

What is the recommended paint cleansing/maintenance process for '98 Imola Red? If there truly is no clearcoat, I don't want to damage the paint. My plan is as follows:

1. Wash/dry with Dawn
2. Clay bar
3. Paint cleanser applied with random orbital buffer
4. Polish, also applied with ROB
5. Wax

Is this the procedure you guys would recommend? Please correct any misteps in this procedure and suggest your favorite products (so I can add them to my Christmas list). I am a detailing newbie and welcome any and all tips!

Thanks in advance!

Pinball81: sounds like you have a nice car that's been taken care of. I think all the BMW's have clear coating regardless of color. The quickest way to tell is take some wax and a microfiber applicator and apply to a portion of the car. If your applicator starts turning red, there is no clear coat. If it doesn't, you're clear coated.

1. Wash with a good lubricity car soap: Meguiar's NXT, Gold Class and Adams Soaps are excellent (the Meg's products are available at most auto and discount stores).
2. Clay bar. Some people use a quick detailer spray as a clay lube and others (myself included) use a car wash soapy water solution.
3. Paint cleanser with a random orbital. Hands down Klasse All-In-One is fantastic. I use it on some customer's cars, but if you have small chips in the frontal area, be advised that Klasse dries white and you'll not be happy. Most BMW's that I detail (2 per week) are coming off BMW Leasing and have highway miles, so I don't use Klasse because of the residue.
4. Depending upon your driving and storage situation, you could apply a good sealant like Wolfgang Deep Gloss or Meguiar's M21 Synthetic sealant. If you're looking for a super deep gloss, an excellent carnuba like Pinnacle Souveran is great.

Use the highest quality microfiber towels you can find. A good local source (of all places) is K-Mart where they sell Viking Quick Detail towels (dark green and approx. $5.00 each). They are fluffy on one side and smoother on the other.

Here's a few examples of my work:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/MetallicBlue_530i_AIO_Outside.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/MetallicBlack_540i_AIO.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/BMW745Li_White_Front.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/541/medium/GrayM540i_InsideHood.jpg

Above all, work in a clean, dust free environment and don't rush. I spend approx. 14 hours on each car detailing it for resale.

Totoland

dboy11
12-11-2006, 06:32 PM
Pinball81: sounds like you have a nice car that's been taken care of. I think all the BMW's have clear coating regardless of color. The quickest way to tell is take some wax and a microfiber applicator and apply to a portion of the car. If your applicator starts turning red, there is no clear coat. If it doesn't, you're clear coated.

1. Wash with a good lubricity car soap: Meguiar's NXT, Gold Class and Adams Soaps are excellent (the Meg's products are available at most auto and discount stores).
2. Clay bar. Some people use a quick detailer spray as a clay lube and others (myself included) use a car wash soapy water solution.
3. Paint cleanser with a random orbital. Hands down Klasse All-In-One is fantastic. I use it on some customer's cars, but if you have small chips in the frontal area, be advised that Klasse dries white and you'll not be happy. Most BMW's that I detail (2 per week) are coming off BMW Leasing and have highway miles, so I don't use Klasse because of the residue.
4. Depending upon your driving and storage situation, you could apply a good sealant like Wolfgang Deep Gloss or Meguiar's M21 Synthetic sealant. If you're looking for a super deep gloss, an excellent carnuba like Pinnacle Souveran is great.

Use the highest quality microfiber towels you can find. A good local source (of all places) is K-Mart where they sell Viking Quick Detail towels (dark green and approx. $5.00 each). They are fluffy on one side and smoother on the other.

Here's a few examples of my work:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/MetallicBlue_530i_AIO_Outside.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/MetallicBlack_540i_AIO.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/BMW745Li_White_Front.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/541/medium/GrayM540i_InsideHood.jpg

Above all, work in a clean, dust free environment and don't rush. I spend approx. 14 hours on each car detailing it for resale.

Totoland

Great advice and some impressive work as well as shop, but can I ask what takes you 14 hours to detail a car, especially ones like these that are in great shape to start.

I have been detailing for 30 plus years, and top end on cars like these would be 6 hours, more like 5 and that's touching everything!

Totoland
12-11-2006, 07:16 PM
dboy11: Old Age? LOL

Actually, I'm still learning the process the shop owner wants. I've done driveway detailing for many years, but this is a pro shop environment and I spend a lot of time on the interiors. The body side takes me several hours because we wet sand hoods and trunks (after using a paint guage to determine if that can be done), then compound followed by glaze and Meguiar's #26. I purposely take my time on the sanding and compounding part (which I never did in driveway detailing).

On the interior, all panels are scrubbed with a boar's hair brush and diluted APC, followed by wipe down and compressed air to dry crevices and switches. Then, leather is scrubbed with a boar's hair brush and seat faces are re-dyed if needed. Finally, mats and carpets are shampooed.

Mostly, it's finding out how to do simple things like adjust the 740iL seats for maximum in order to get to center console carpeting and things like that.

The shop owner mirrored what your times are stated and hopefully, I can attain them in a month or so.

Did I tell you I was old? Can't remember! LOL I really enjoy this as a part-time job to go with my Mon-Fri stuff.

Totoland

laidback
12-11-2006, 10:02 PM
Nice work:thumbup:



dboy11: Old Age? LOL

Actually, I'm still learning the process the shop owner wants. I've done driveway detailing for many years, but this is a pro shop environment and I spend a lot of time on the interiors. The body side takes me several hours because we wet sand hoods and trunks (after using a paint guage to determine if that can be done), then compound followed by glaze and Meguiar's #26. I purposely take my time on the sanding and compounding part (which I never did in driveway detailing).

On the interior, all panels are scrubbed with a boar's hair brush and diluted APC, followed by wipe down and compressed air to dry crevices and switches. Then, leather is scrubbed with a boar's hair brush and seat faces are re-dyed if needed. Finally, mats and carpets are shampooed.

Mostly, it's finding out how to do simple things like adjust the 740iL seats for maximum in order to get to center console carpeting and things like that.

The shop owner mirrored what your times are stated and hopefully, I can attain them in a month or so.

Did I tell you I was old? Can't remember! LOL I really enjoy this as a part-time job to go with my Mon-Fri stuff.

Totoland

laidback
12-11-2006, 10:03 PM
I have an Imola Red and i have great success with Zaino products and procedure aswell...




Purchased a '98 Imola Red M Roadster late last summer and have yet to truly detail the paint. The previous owner did a pretty good job, but the paint is almost 10 yrs old and could surely use a little more TLC.

I have read before that Red BMW paint does not have a clearcoat layer. Is this true?

What is the recommended paint cleansing/maintenance process for '98 Imola Red? If there truly is no clearcoat, I don't want to damage the paint. My plan is as follows:

1. Wash/dry with Dawn
2. Clay bar
3. Paint cleanser applied with random orbital buffer
4. Polish, also applied with ROB
5. Wax

Is this the procedure you guys would recommend? Please correct any misteps in this procedure and suggest your favorite products (so I can add them to my Christmas list). I am a detailing newbie and welcome any and all tips!

Thanks in advance!

dboy11
12-12-2006, 08:43 AM
dboy11: Old Age? LOL

Actually, I'm still learning the process the shop owner wants. I've done driveway detailing for many years, but this is a pro shop environment and I spend a lot of time on the interiors. The body side takes me several hours because we wet sand hoods and trunks (after using a paint guage to determine if that can be done), then compound followed by glaze and Meguiar's #26. I purposely take my time on the sanding and compounding part (which I never did in driveway detailing).

On the interior, all panels are scrubbed with a boar's hair brush and diluted APC, followed by wipe down and compressed air to dry crevices and switches. Then, leather is scrubbed with a boar's hair brush and seat faces are re-dyed if needed. Finally, mats and carpets are shampooed.

Mostly, it's finding out how to do simple things like adjust the 740iL seats for maximum in order to get to center console carpeting and things like that.

The shop owner mirrored what your times are stated and hopefully, I can attain them in a month or so.

Did I tell you I was old? Can't remember! LOL I really enjoy this as a part-time job to go with my Mon-Fri stuff.

Totoland



The wet sanding makes some sence to me then, and if you are bring these back to 100% rock chip repair and all that I can see why its taking longer.

Just for the records I'm 52........LOL

Totoland
12-12-2006, 08:52 AM
Yep, the rock chip repair can be painfully slow...especially with the metallic colors!

For the record...I gotcha' by 11 years. It's been a fun learning process for me. After driveway detailing, this is definitely another level of perfection which I like.

Totoland

dboy11
12-12-2006, 08:57 AM
Yep, the rock chip repair can be painfully slow...especially with the metallic colors!

For the record...I gotcha' by 11 years. It's been a fun learning process for me. After driveway detailing, this is definitely another level of perfection which I like.

Totoland

Didn't realize that I had to respect my elders....Just kidding!

Have a look at this site if you haven't already, great site for info and processes.

What made you take this as a part time gig, looks like a great shop, I'm jealous!

http://www.detailcity.org

I'm beemerboy over there

Totoland
12-12-2006, 09:19 AM
Didn't realize that I had to respect my elders....Just kidding!

Have a look at this site if you haven't already, great site for info and processes.

What made you take this as a part time gig, looks like a great shop, I'm jealous!

http://www.detailcity.org

I'm beemerboy over there

Oh heck Beemerboy, I've seen you over there a bunch (I use Totoland Mach on Detailcity and Autopia and Meg's Online).

I think the "do-over's" waste a lot of time for me (well deserved ones according to the shop owner). So, I've slowed myself down to do it right the 1st time, then I'll pick up speed once I've gotten the process down right. Like I said, this is waaaaayy different from driveway detailing.

I took the job primarily to learn the process of sanding, compounding, chip repair, etc. The shop (and the owner) are fantastic. No weather worries, great equipment, and I'm building a client list for further detailing down the road. I travel a lot during the week and sell computer systems. This is my "break" from that...some folks like golf, woodworking, remodeling, etc....I like to bring a car to perfection.

My final goal is to continue to build my Mach 1 to a show car...so some of the detail $$ goes toward that end.

Take care and thanks for the compliments! Much Appreciated!

dboy11
12-12-2006, 09:24 AM
Oh heck Beemerboy, I've seen you over there a bunch (I use Totoland Mach on Detailcity and Autopia and Meg's Online).

I think the "do-over's" waste a lot of time for me (well deserved ones according to the shop owner). So, I've slowed myself down to do it right the 1st time, then I'll pick up speed once I've gotten the process down right. Like I said, this is waaaaayy different from driveway detailing.

I took the job primarily to learn the process of sanding, compounding, chip repair, etc. The shop (and the owner) are fantastic. No weather worries, great equipment, and I'm building a client list for further detailing down the road. I travel a lot during the week and sell computer systems. This is my "break" from that...some folks like golf, woodworking, remodeling, etc....I like to bring a car to perfection.

My final goal is to continue to build my Mach 1 to a show car...so some of the detail $$ goes toward that end.

Take care and thanks for the compliments! Much Appreciated!

I was thinking that your nic looked familiar to me but didn't place it to DC

Your on the right track for your detail biz, mines been built from word of mouth and is only a weekend gig for me.

Do you belong to any vintage stang sites, I have a buddy with two vintages ones that he wants to sell...67 fast back and 74 notch back both in great original conditions and very drive-able

Totoland
12-12-2006, 09:36 AM
I belong to the Mach 1 Registry and visit other sites with "adult supervision" LOL

Some nice things about BMW's (aside from great looks) are the quality of paint and leather. Good stuff period. I've done several enthusiast Porsche's this summer and definitely has some issues with their black paint (very soft and easy to mar).

See Ya!

jetstream23
12-12-2006, 02:04 PM
JetStream, Thanks for the feedback. The paint is actually in pretty good condition -- just a few light scratches, swirl marks, etc. that a little bit of work should easily remove. The original owner took great care of the car -- it was always stored for the winters, rarely driven in rain, etc. I have waxed it a few times with Meguiar's Gold Class wax after washing with Meguiar's Gold Class Carwash.

Where can I purchase the Klasse products? Can I find them locally at Autozone or a similar store? Or do I need to order them online?

Thanks again!

Autopia.org is where I think I ordered my stuff from.

Totoland
12-12-2006, 07:18 PM
You can get Klasse products and Wolfgang Sealant from AutoGeek.net. Good service too.

Totoland

TOGWT
12-13-2006, 02:22 AM
Quote: I'm one of the people that think the Dawn washing is highly overrated. Since "Dawn gets grease out of your way" it has been recommended by those looking for an easy way to remove waxes from vehicles. Since the previous owner didn't do a great job keeping the car detailed it is unlikely there is even wax on it. I think you should use a gentle car shampoo (not something used to scrub dishes)

Washing-up Liquids (Detergent):
Washing up liquid is formulated to be used with hot water as opposed to warm/cold water that is normally used to wash the car***8217;s paint surface, hot water causes the detergents to mix, without heat a fine layer of alkaline soap remains on the paint surface. Washing-up liquids should not be used on a regular basis for vehicles bodywork as the MSDS indicates that this product contains sodium hydroxide, which is highly alkaline (pH 13) the same ingredient used in engine degreasers to chemically ***8216;burn***8217; hydrocarbon oils and grease from engine surfaces (sodium hydroxide) will severely stain aluminum, magnesium, etc. It will emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils naturally found in your paint, and also any oils you have applied in the way of a polish or glaze.

Be careful what you use on a paint surface; a polyurethane paint (high solid, low solvent clear coats) can absorb moisture; as water molecules are smaller than a cross-linked clear coats molecule. So be aware of the contents in car wash liquids or concentrates, sealant and waxes (i.e. low pH acids, high pH alkaline, Dimethal (DMS) silicones or solvents that contain butyl, heptanes, and xylene or hydrocarbon aliphatic solvents.
(See also MSDS, Potential of Hydrogen (pH)

Generally avoid the use of household cleaning products for automotive detailing as they are formulated for an entirely different type of cleaning. Quote ***8211; ***8220;Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car***8221;. Proctor and Gamble (See also Detergents)

Alternative products- DuPont Prepsol II, Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) Klasse All-In-One, Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner

{Experience; [and the correct information] can be a great teacher}

Totoland
12-13-2006, 04:48 AM
Great Info TOGWT!!!!!

I've seen a lot of damage detailing cars where owner's have used household chemicals on their cars prior to my work.

Totoland

Pinball81
12-13-2006, 06:23 AM
Excellent info, guys. I greatly appreciate all of the feedback. I'll do a little research on my own, but will probably pursue the Klasse/Wolfgang method.

After the Roadster, it's on to my '03 540i/6. Bought it in October off lease, and, like most off-lease cars, the paint definitely needs a little work!

Once again, thanks for your help.

Totoland
12-13-2006, 06:40 AM
Excellent info, guys. I greatly appreciate all of the feedback. I'll do a little research on my own, but will probably pursue the Klasse/Wolfgang method.

After the Roadster, it's on to my '03 540i/6. Bought it in October off lease, and, like most off-lease cars, the paint definitely needs a little work!

Once again, thanks for your help.

No problem Pinball81: I recondition at least 2 off-lease BMW's per week so I know what you are saying.

I think you'll have excellent results with the Klasse & Wolfgang combo, along with great durability.

Have a fantastic day Sir.

Totoland

Pinball81
12-14-2006, 12:17 PM
One more question: Do you recommend using a random orbital buffer for the Klasse AIO and the SG applications? Or, shoud I just stick with the good ol' hand application method? Which is more effective?

Thanks again!

Totoland
12-14-2006, 12:42 PM
One more question: Do you recommend using a random orbital buffer for the Klasse AIO and the SG applications? Or, shoud I just stick with the good ol' hand application method? Which is more effective?

Thanks again!

If you have a random orbital and foam pad (for finishing or light polishing), that will give you the best results. Not only will you be applying an even coat of product, but you will find you are going to use less product for a given area as opposed to hand application.

Have fun detailing!

Totoland

johnnygraphic
12-23-2006, 10:25 AM
I have an Imola Red car too. And, I've had excellent results in using Menzerna products. I use the Intensive Polish and the Final Polish II to smooth out the paint prior to doing any wax/sealant.

I have used the Pinnacle Souveran paste wax (smells great) and it works very nicely and gives an awesome shine. Goes on easy too.

I just used the Menzerna FMJ for the first time. It also goes on very easy, looks great too. Doesn't damage any black trim. I'm using it because it lasts much longer than the wax.

Johnny