205/50/17 wheel/tire setup on 330i

[PG]

Hi,

I'm considering to replace my existing setup (225/45/17 front tires, 245/40/17 rear tires mounted on M68 wheels) with 205/50/17 tires mounted on type 79 wheels.

While the M68 wheels are great looking, many of the roads on my commute to work and grad school are extremely rough and my car tramlines like crazy. Several people I've talked to have suggested that I go with a narrower wheel/tire setup to avoid the tramlining and make the ride more comfortable. At the same time, I don't want to sacrifice too much performance.

If I were to go with the type 79 wheels, which tires in the 205/50/17 size would you all recommend I go with? I think the non-sport 330s come with Continentals but I'd like to avoid this brand as I've heard they're not very good.

Thanks in advance,
PG

[PhilH]

Do you want all season tire or summer tire recommendations?

I've had a good experience with Dunlop SP5000 all season tires, but even on our Passat, they only lasted 15,000 miles. I've heard many good things about Bridgestone S-03s, and that's the summer tire I plan on buying eventually, but the one thing they're not noted for is ride quality.

It's nice to hear someone who is somewhat practical about their BMW every once in a while. :thumbup:

[TD]

Originally posted by PhilH
Do you want all season tire or summer tire recommendations?

I've had a good experience with Dunlop SP5000 all season tires, but even on our Passat, they only lasted 15,000 miles. I've heard many good things about Bridgestone S-03s, and that's the summer tire I plan on buying eventually, but the one thing they're not noted for is ride quality.

It's nice to hear someone who is somewhat practical about their BMW every once in a while. :thumbup:


BAH!!

Practicality is for wusses. :D

(BTW, the S-03s aren't harsh.)

[PG]

Hi Phil,

I definitely want to go with an all-season tire. Thanks for suggesting the Dunlops. I'll look into them. Ideally, I'd like to go with a tire with good ride quality and somewhat decent performance.

Originally posted by PhilH
Do you want all season tire or summer tire recommendations?

I've had a good experience with Dunlop SP5000 all season tires, but even on our Passat, they only lasted 15,000 miles. I've heard many good things about Bridgestone S-03s, and that's the summer tire I plan on buying eventually, but the one thing they're not noted for is ride quality.

It's nice to hear someone who is somewhat practical about their BMW every once in a while. :thumbup:

[nate]

Originally posted by TD


(BTW, the S-03s aren't harsh.)

On rough roads, they are pretty harsh

[PhilH]

Originally posted by TD
BAH!!

Practicality is for wusses. :D
I was on the bmwuucdigest one time when someone suggested that putting 16" wheels on an E36 M3 was a good upgrade that made his M3 more comfortable. People went nuts calling it a "downgrade" and generally were jerks to him.

As for the SP5000, the tire doesn't squeal easily, and worked amazingly well in snow on the Passat. I also have a car enthusiast friend who put them on his sport package 528i and has been pleased with them. IIRC, if you look at the consumer ratings on tirerack.com, they have great numbers versus other tires.

[PG]

Phil,

Do you think 205/50/17 size tires should be ok or will they be too narrow? I think I should either go with 205s or 225s all around. Let me know what you think.

Originally posted by PhilH
I was on the bmwuucdigest one time when someone suggested that putting 16" wheels on an E36 M3 was a good upgrade that made his M3 more comfortable. People went nuts calling it a "downgrade" and generally were jerks to him.

As for the SP5000, the tire doesn't squeal easily, and worked amazingly well in snow on the Passat. I also have a car enthusiast friend who put them on his sport package 528i and has been pleased with them. IIRC, if you look at the consumer ratings on tirerack.com, they have great numbers versus other tires.

[PhilH]

Originally posted by PG
Do you think 205/50/17 size tires should be ok or will they be too narrow?
It's the stock size for a 330i without sport package, so they should be fine. I feel BMW wouldn't put them on the car if they weren't more than acceptable. If you really want to reduce tramlining, it's just about the only way to go.

However, I don't have any personal experience in driving with those tires on an E46 (except for the brief autocross at the Ultimate Drive Experience in a 330xi), so you might want to find someone who does. I think AlanF was recently complaining that he wasn't fond of his 205/50-17 all season winter setup recently...maybe also check the .org for some 3-series owners that may not have the sport package.

[beauport]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PG
Phil,

Do you think 205/50/17 size tires should be ok or will they be too narrow? I think I should either go with 205s or 225s all around. Let me know what you think. [/QUOTE

I'm runnning 205/50/17 with Blizzak LM22 snow tires ("performance" snow tires) and the car handles and drives fine. The trammeling is gone (my summer tires are staggered 225/40/18, 255/35/18 and I get a fair amount of trammeling. If you got a good all season in that size the car should handle fine and drive very smoothly.

[visor]

I don't have the SP on my 330i, and having changed the tires from OEM 205/50/17's all-seasons to 225/45/17's summers over the past 8 months, I've definitely noticed more tramlining. It can be so bad that I would plan ahead and avoid certain bad roads that would literally yank the steering wheel out of my hands if I did not have a very firm grip on it. On the other hand, the wider tires were able to corner at a higher speed.

Changing back to the all-seasons for the winter, I've noticed not much change in ride quality (all 2002 330 has sport suspension), but I can't corner as fast. However, one very good positive is that the car feels much more nimble off the line and quick steering transitions. I would think this is due to the narrower tire and wheel being lighter and reducing the unsprung weight at each corner by at least 5-8 lbs.

Some all seasons to look at:
Dunlop SP5000 as mentioned by others
Yokohama Avid H4
Yokohama AVS dB (I'm not absolutely sure if they have our size)
Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus (more ride, less performance)
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (more performance, less ride)
Bridgestone Potenza 950

[PG]

Visor,

So, with the 205/50/17s, does the steering require less effort? Also, does the steering feel better with the 205s or with the 225s?

Thanks,
PG

Originally posted by visor
I don't have the SP on my 330i, and having changed the tires from OEM 205/50/17's all-seasons to 225/45/17's summers over the past 8 months, I've definitely noticed more tramlining. It can be so bad that I would plan ahead and avoid certain bad roads that would literally yank the steering wheel out of my hands if I did not have a very firm grip on it. On the other hand, the wider tires were able to corner at a higher speed.

Changing back to the all-seasons for the winter, I've noticed not much change in ride quality (all 2002 330 has sport suspension), but I can't corner as fast. However, one very good positive is that the car feels much more nimble off the line and quick steering transitions. I would think this is due to the narrower tire and wheel being lighter and reducing the unsprung weight at each corner by at least 5-8 lbs.

Some all seasons to look at:
Dunlop SP5000 as mentioned by others
Yokohama Avid H4
Yokohama AVS dB (I'm not absolutely sure if they have our size)
Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus (more ride, less performance)
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (more performance, less ride)
Bridgestone Potenza 950

[visor]

Originally posted by PG
So, with the 205/50/17s, does the steering require less effort? Also, does the steering feel better with the 205s or with the 225s?

The steering (and car) feels quicker and nimbler on the 205's, but heftier (ie. requires more effort) on the 225's. Not that one is better than the other, but just different.

[Kaz]

Going from summer 225s to a A/S 205s will, all things being equal, make the steering feel quicker, especially if the narrower wheel/tire combo also shaves a few pounds off the weight. An A/S tire will typically have a slightly harder compound, and have smaller tread blocks, both of which would contribute to this.

I'd recommend Bridgestone RE950s as a great A/S tire, except they don't make em in this size.

[AF]

I didn't see this question here but answered you on the org . . .
Here it is . . .

I have both the M68's and the type 79's . . . If it weren't for snow, I would never switch out my M68's but they are terrible in the snow due to the obvious . . . wide summer tires . . .

The Type 79's have the factory Conti-allseasons which I am very happy with. I find the ride is very quiet, the handling is very good and they are excellent in the snow. When I originally bought them, I figured I would try them out in the snow and if they weren't decent, then I would swap out the tires for snows but after driving in the last 2 storms I can tell you they are very good.

See the pics below for before & after pics

http://members.roadfly.com/alan927/Topazsport.jpg

http://members.roadfly.com/alan927/topazwinter.jpg

[PG]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the response. I had also sent you an email (since I know you have type 79s for your all season tire setup). Basically, I wanted to know what the difference in tramlining and steering feel is between the M68s and the type 79s. If you could let me know, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks,
PG

Originally posted by Alan F
I didn't see this question here but answered you on the org . . .
Here it is . . .

I have both the M68's and the type 79's . . . If it weren't for snow, I would never switch out my M68's but they are terrible in the snow due to the obvious . . . wide summer tires . . .

The Type 79's have the factory Conti-allseasons which I am very happy with. I find the ride is very quiet, the handling is very good and they are excellent in the snow. When I originally bought them, I figured I would try them out in the snow and if they weren't decent, then I would swap out the tires for snows but after driving in the last 2 storms I can tell you they are very good.

[AF]

PG,

Which tires do you currently have on your car now ?

On my 01 330Ci I noticed a very big difference between the Pilots vs the all season. With my 03 330i the difference isn't nearly as great which I think has a lot to do with the revised steering and suspension plus I now have Contiental's (summer tires)

If you want my direct impressions of the Pilots vs all-season, do a search and you'll find my exact thoughts at the time I had them. I weill tell you what I remember but it's been a while . . .


Pilot's vs conti all seasons - 2001 330Ci
- All seasons reduced tramlining alot though my 01 tramlined like crazy . . .
- turn in response I felt was better with the Michelin sports
- much more body roll with the All -seasons but I used to use tire pressure of 30psi frt/35 rear compared to now on the 2003 I use 32 frt/38 rear
- much quieter ride with all seasons
- handling is ok but not great . . . it doesn't have that slot car feel my Pilots had


Conti summer vs conti all-seasons - 2003 330i

I really didn't have much time with my new car to tell too much difference, I only put 400 miles on the summer set up and I've managed to put 600 on the all-seasons

Overall I haven't noticed that much difference in the 2 but I do notice the tramlining is less with the all-seasons though my 2003 doesn't tramline that bad with the summers

I would rate the handling as 'good for the allseasons and 'great' for the summers

Bodyroll isn't nearly as bad as I thopught it would be either though like i said earlier might be due to the higher tire pressure plus the revised suspension . . .

Why are you thinking of switching ? What are you trying to accomplish ?

[AF]

Originally posted by PhilH
I think AlanF was recently complaining that he wasn't fond of his 205/50-17 all season winter setup recently...maybe also check the .org for some 3-series owners that may not have the sport package.

Phil, it's not that I was unhappy with them, I just love the way the M68's look and that picture you posted made me miss them :(

[TD]

Originally posted by Alan F
PG,

Which tires do you currently have on your car now ?

On my 01 330Ci I noticed a very big difference between the Pilots vs the all season. With my 03 330i the difference isn't nearly as great which I think has a lot to do with the revised steering and suspension plus I now have Contiental's (summer tires)

If you want my direct impressions of the Pilots vs all-season, do a search and you'll find my exact thoughts at the time I had them. I weill tell you what I remember but it's been a while . . .


Pilot's vs conti all seasons - 2001 330Ci
- All seasons reduced tramlining alot though my 01 tramlined like crazy . . .
- turn in response I felt was better with the Michelin sports
- much more body roll with the All -seasons but I used to use tire pressure of 30psi frt/35 rear compared to now on the 2003 I use 32 frt/38 rear
- much quieter ride with all seasons
- handling is ok but not great . . . it doesn't have that slot car feel my Pilots had


Conti summer vs conti all-seasons - 2003 330i

I really didn't have much time with my new car to tell too much difference, I only put 400 miles on the summer set up and I've managed to put 600 on the all-seasons

Overall I haven't noticed that much difference in the 2 but I do notice the tramlining is less with the all-seasons though my 2003 doesn't tramline that bad with the summers

I would rate the handling as 'good for the allseasons and 'great' for the summers

Bodyroll isn't nearly as bad as I thopught it would be either though like i said earlier might be due to the higher tire pressure plus the revised suspension . . .

Why are you thinking of switching ? What are you trying to accomplish ?

Body roll will not be affected by your choice of tires. You will experience different amounts of tire sidewall roll (taller sidewalls tend to roll over more). But that's not body roll.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Bridgestone Potenza RE950s are great in 215/45. (They track very well.) Another option, if you're looking for more comfort and willing to sacrifice a little more performance is the Sumitomo HTR+ in 215/50. That's what I'm currently running for winter tires. VERY comfortable, essentially no wander at all, and decent traction.

[AF]

Originally posted by TD
Body roll will not be affected by your choice of tires. You will experience different amounts of tire sidewall roll (taller sidewalls tend to roll over more). But that's not body roll.

Got it . . . I should have put tire roll . . .

[PG]

Alan,

I currently have Continental Contisports mounted on M68s with the staggered setup (exactly what you have on your new '03).

The reason I'm considering a narrow wheel/tire setup (like with the type 79 wheels) is because I'm extremely sensitive to my car's tramlining tendencies and I'm just looking for a more comfortable ride without sacrificing too much performance.

The way my car is right now is not bad at all if the road is smooth. But, on rough roads in the city, my car tramlines a lot.

Keep in mind that my '01 330i has the 2002 steering rack (as I'm sure you remember) and I'm very happy with the steering.

Would you say that the steering feels any lighter/heavier with your all-season tires than it does with the performance tires? I just want to make sure that my decision to go with a narrower, all-season tire doesn't have any negative effects on my car's steering feel.

Originally posted by Alan F
PG,

Which tires do you currently have on your car now ?

On my 01 330Ci I noticed a very big difference between the Pilots vs the all season. With my 03 330i the difference isn't nearly as great which I think has a lot to do with the revised steering and suspension plus I now have Contiental's (summer tires)

If you want my direct impressions of the Pilots vs all-season, do a search and you'll find my exact thoughts at the time I had them. I weill tell you what I remember but it's been a while . . .


Pilot's vs conti all seasons - 2001 330Ci
- All seasons reduced tramlining alot though my 01 tramlined like crazy . . .
- turn in response I felt was better with the Michelin sports
- much more body roll with the All -seasons but I used to use tire pressure of 30psi frt/35 rear compared to now on the 2003 I use 32 frt/38 rear
- much quieter ride with all seasons
- handling is ok but not great . . . it doesn't have that slot car feel my Pilots had


Conti summer vs conti all-seasons - 2003 330i

I really didn't have much time with my new car to tell too much difference, I only put 400 miles on the summer set up and I've managed to put 600 on the all-seasons

Overall I haven't noticed that much difference in the 2 but I do notice the tramlining is less with the all-seasons though my 2003 doesn't tramline that bad with the summers

I would rate the handling as 'good for the allseasons and 'great' for the summers

Bodyroll isn't nearly as bad as I thopught it would be either though like i said earlier might be due to the higher tire pressure plus the revised suspension . . .

Why are you thinking of switching ? What are you trying to accomplish ?

[jrubens]

I had the Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus on my car for a while and was very pleased. I've just put new ContiSport tires on and, again, have had no complaints. (I'm not keeping the car long enough to pay Michelin prices). I have an older car,though, and the specs are totally different.

A friend of mine who's in the business just put Toyo's on a 528 and a 740il, both1998 models, and the results have been excellent. The Toyo's are supposed the be close to the quality of Michelin at half the price.

Again, though, I don't know how the Toyo's that spec for the 330i are, although I believe they got a decent write up in Roundel not that long ago.

[AF]

Well on my 2001 I noticed the steering was a little lighter (not by much at all though).

As far as the 2003, I am not sure, I really didn't have enough seat time to really remember.

Also, I remember that you have the 2002 steering rack but keep in mind there are also differences in the suspension as it has been revised and is now what I consider to be perfect !!!

One thing you should consider is this . . . if you pick up a set of type 79's or even type 73's from someone selling them, it will probably cost anywhere from $700-$900. ( I paid $1000 for mine). Let's say you put them on and decide you don't like them, you could always resell them and get most of your money back.

So it's not like this is a huge decision to make . . . I am telling you this to ease your mind . . . don't stress on it too much.

If you have anymore questions, either post them in this thread or email anytime.

[milski]

If you have anymore questions, either post them in this thread or email anytime.

At the end you sold the 79's. What is that you did not like about them? I'm considering getting a set for this winter.

[flashinthepan]

PG,

I hear your concern about tramlinning & freeway speed comfort, I didnt want to give that up either,

I originally did have 205-50-17 Goodyear RSA's all season. Quiet, nice ride etc...

Yes they arent performance tires but you do get a comfort ride and no tramlinning.

No tire is absolutely perfect in every way IMO, but the all season types will be quieter and smoother.

[TeamM3]

I don't really understand your choice to stay with 17" and use a 205/50-17. The 205 has the same dia as the 225/45, so while being narrower the sidewall height is still the same and that is part of the tramlining problem. If you plan to change wheels anyway then you really need to drop down to 16" and use a 205/55-16 or 215/55-16. This will make the biggest difference in ride quality and contrary to *theory* the the taller sidewall height relative to response and performance won't be very significant between those two diameters if you were to do a heads-up comparison using the same brand/model of tire. It doesn't sound as if you are planning to race on them. :dunno:

the large diameter wheel fad amuses me, some people don't seem to realize that for most tires 18" and up the sidewall is not getting shorter, the OD's are getting larger :confused:

[AF]

At the end you sold the 79's. What is that you did not like about them? I'm considering getting a set for this winter.


I wasn't crazy abouthow skinny the rear tire looked . . . I am used to seing my car with a beefy 245/40/17 tire in the rear sand to me, the 20550/17 looked to skinny . . . pluslooks wise I don't thinkthey complimented my car.

For some reason they look better on the Xi where the car is raised a little higher and you can see the width of the tire a little more. . . or maybe it's because the higher suspesion doesn't make the wheel look as tucked in visually :dunno:


Whatever it is, they do make a great winter wheel but I decided to try somehting else . . .

[milski]

I wasn't crazy abouthow skinny the rear tire looked . . . I am used to seing my car with a beefy 245/40/17 tire in the rear sand to me, the 20550/17 looked to skinny . . . pluslooks wise I don't thinkthey complimented my car.

For some reason they look better on the Xi where the car is raised a little higher and you can see the width of the tire a little more. . . or maybe it's because the higher suspesion doesn't make the wheel look as tucked in visually :dunno:


Whatever it is, they do make a great winter wheel but I decided to try somehting else . . .

I'm planning to put 225/45/17 on them, so they should not be that skinny. :dunno:
And I do like them, lookwise. There's a 330xi with 79s which parks at work, they do look good on it. Worst case come, I'll get something different next winter.

[AF]

I'm planning to put 225/45/17 on them, so they should not be that skinny. :dunno:
And I do like them, lookwise. There's a 330xi with 79s which parks at work, they do look good on it. Worst case come, I'll get something different next winter.

Can you put a 225 on a 7" wide wheel . . . you might want to make sure it is ok before you buy them.

Do you want me to dig up a couple of pics of my car with them on it and post them ?

[TeamM3]

Can you put a 225 on a 7" wide wheel?

yes, it's the lower recommended limit on a 225/45-17 for most manufacturers.

[milski]

Can you put a 225 on a 7" wide wheel . . . you might want to make sure it is ok before you buy them.

Do you want me to dig up a couple of pics of my car with them on it and post them ?

Yes, I made it as sure as possible without getting the wheels themselves. It was confirmed here, at tirerack and michelin's web site, so it should work.

Thanks a lot, there is already one on the previous page of this thread. :thumbup: I'll post pics when I have them installed.

[AF]

Yes, I made it as sure as possible without getting the wheels themselves. It was confirmed here, at tirerack and michelin's web site, so it should work.

Thanks a lot, there is already one on the previous page of this thread. :thumbup: I'll post pics when I have them installed.

Before you buy a set, look at these pics, the first pic in this post was right after I let the car down from the jack so it looked kind of like the Xi (higher up) wich wit these wheels look better but here are 2 pics of my car without that jacked up look and I don't think it looks too great . . .

[milski]

Before you buy a set, look at these pics, the first pic in this post was right after I let the car down from the jack so it looked kind of like the Xi (higher up) wich wit these wheels look better but here are 2 pics of my car without that jacked up look and I don't think it looks too great . . .

Still does not look bad, especially for a winter setup? :dunno:
If I can find out who drives the 330xi at work, I might talk to the guy to have two of the wheels swaped just to see how they would look on my car. Not very likely to happen though :tsk:
My other choices are 98 (which are almost the same) or 97, which are 7.5" but more expensive.