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View Full Version : Anyone notice a resemblence?


TD
01-02-2003, 12:49 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030102/capt.1041526665.auto_sho_preview_ny801.jpg

The 2004 Pontiac GTO is photographed before the Los Angeles Skyline early Tuesday, Jan. 2, 2003. The muscle car from Pontiac is returning to production and debuting at the Los Angeles Auto Show. (AP Photo/HO/GM/JOE POLIMENI)

doeboy
01-02-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by TD
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030102/capt.1041526665.auto_sho_preview_ny801.jpg

The 2004 Pontiac GTO is photographed before the Los Angeles Skyline early Tuesday, Jan. 2, 2003. The muscle car from Pontiac is returning to production and debuting at the Los Angeles Auto Show. (AP Photo/HO/GM/JOE POLIMENI)

It's actually a rebadged Holden Monaro (at least I think that's the name)...

TD
01-02-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by doeboy
It's actually a rebadged Holden Monaro (at least I think that's the name)...

You are correct. Still, no comment on it's current resemblance?

AB
01-02-2003, 12:53 PM
Yea looks like a Dodge Stratus or Avenger or whatever the hell model it is that Dodge makes.

doeboy
01-02-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by TD
You are correct. Still, no comment on it's current resemblance?

I think it looks like a Holden... :) haha...

yes.. there is a slight resemblence to the BMW Kidneys.... but I think the Holden's have had that for quite some time as well.

PhilH
01-02-2003, 12:57 PM
New Grand Prix?
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_la/grandprix/X04PN_GP008.jpg

...new Grand Prix in red, lowered, with bigger wheels (Pontiac show car)
http://www.edmunds.com/media/2002/chicago/pontiac.gforce.f3-4.500.jpg

beauport
01-02-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by TD
You are correct. Still, no comment on it's current resemblance?

For Pontiac's sake, they better do the rear end better than the car I believe you think it resembles........and it has a lot of similarity the whole hood, front end....

Kaz
01-02-2003, 01:02 PM
I've always thought it resembles a slightly morphed facelift E46 sedan. The headlight/kidney proportion is all wrong, but the upturned kidney corner and corner lights are similar and the foglight, though the wrong size and shape, also just sit in a featureless hole in the bumper face. It even has bumper reflectors from a coupe for good measure.

Kaz
01-02-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by doeboy

yes.. there is a slight resemblence to the BMW Kidneys.... but I think the Holden's have had that for quite some time as well.

The kidneys are a Pontiac trait. The Monaro (nor any other Holden) do not have them.

doeboy
01-02-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by PhilH
New Grand Prix?
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_la/grandprix/X04PN_GP008.jpg

...new Grand Prix in red, lowered, with bigger wheels (Pontiac show car)
http://www.edmunds.com/media/2002/chicago/pontiac.gforce.f3-4.500.jpg

Ugh... it looks like someone tried to stylize an ugly ass Alero... :eek:

doeboy
01-02-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Kaz
The kidneys are a Pontiac trait. The Monaro (nor any other Holden) do not have them.

Really? hmm... maybe I got it confused with some other cars front end... I could've sworn I saw kidneys on' that elsewhere... oh well.... :dunno:

TD
01-02-2003, 01:07 PM
Aside from the number of doors, I think it bears a strong resemblence to THIS-

(I couldn't find a pic in red. Use your imagination.)

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/341568.jpg

And for direct comparisons-

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030102/capt.1041526665.auto_sho_preview_ny801.jpg

doeboy
01-02-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by TD
Aside from the number of doors, I think it bears a strong resemblence to THIS-

(I couldn't find a pic in red. Use your imagination.)

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/341568.jpg



yeah it does.... for a GM car, it doesn't look half bad.... (ack! what am I saying.... :banghead: )

watch... all the PepBoys guys are gonna be driving around in those soon... hehe

TD
01-02-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by doeboy
yeah it does.... for a GM car, it doesn't look half bad.... (ack! what am I saying.... :banghead: )

watch... all the PepBoys guys are gonna be driving around in those soon... hehe

Thrown in that it comes with a 6-spd manual AND the Corvette V8 engine and that it is expected to be priced around $30K....

PhilH
01-02-2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by TD
Thrown in that it comes with a 6-spd manual AND the Corvette V8 engine and that it is expected to be priced around $30K....
...and you have a crappy GM car that looks OK and is fast. :p

(this is a BMW forum, right? :eeps: )

Besides for the front of the car (that GM ripped off of BMW), IMO the rest of the car bears little resemblance to the E46.

TD
01-02-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by PhilH
...and you have a crappy GM car that looks OK and is fast. :p

(this is a BMW forum, right? :eeps: )

Besides for the front of the car (that GM ripped off of BMW), IMO the rest of the car bears little resemblance to the E46.

Remember, though, it's being built (and was designed) by Holden in Australia. They're more on par with Opal in Europe. Both are GM but much better (but still not BMW-caliber).

A couple of years ago, C&D ran a comparo of a Holden against the E39 M5 and the Holden held it's own. In fact, C&D called it more fun to drive than the M5.

I'd call this GTO a viable option against any of the other $30-40K RWD sport coupes. It's going to beat up on non-M E46 coupes for less money. It might not last 10 years without falling apart but neither is an E46. I'd bet the Holden rattles less.

johnlew
01-02-2003, 01:32 PM
Pontiac had it down better here...


http://www.bimmerfest.com/members/johnlew/e36compare.jpg

Artslinger
01-02-2003, 01:35 PM
I was really anticipating some good things about the design of the 2004 Pontiac GTO when I first found out about the car being produced... now after looking at the body design this car is boring looking... Pontiac had a opportunity to produce a awesome car and they blew it. The Corvette engine is the only good thing about this car.

TD
01-02-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by johnlew
Pontiac had it down better here...


http://www.bimmerfest.com/members/johnlew/e36compare.jpg

I knew YOU were going to post that.

And just like the GTO comparo, yours REALLY falls apart behind the headlights. Worse, it needs crappy pics to even pull off the illusion.

PhilH
01-02-2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by TD
A couple of years ago, C&D ran a comparo of a Holden against the E39 M5 and the Holden held it's own. In fact, C&D called it more fun to drive than the M5.
I know, I read it, however the M5 won the comparison test. The Holden was a bit unrefined if I remember correctly (maybe that adds to the fun to drive quotient for some people).

I bet the Holden rattles a lot more than an E46 ten years down the road.

doeboy
01-02-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Artslinger
now after looking at the body design this car is boring looking... Pontiac had a opportunity to produce a awesome car and they blew it.

I say "better boring than lookin like ass..." :D

I'm guessing if Pontiac was behind designing it... we might have a GTO that resembles an ASStek with too many unpainted plastic pieces around the exterior....

Kaz
01-02-2003, 01:44 PM
My Australian friends talk about Holdens the way we Americans talk about Chevys. Take that whichever way you like. :dunno:

TD
01-02-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by doeboy
I say "better boring than lookin like ass..." :D

I'm guessing if Pontiac was behind designing it... we might have a GTO that resembles an ASStek with too many unpainted plastic pieces around the exterior....

Nope. Bob Lutz (the original head of BMW M) is now in charge of product development at GM. He HATES the plastic ****. We have probably seen the last of GM models arriving with 200 lbs of plastic crap tacked on.

The roadster design he had commissioned (the Pontiac Solstice) is rather attractive, IMO.

http://www.edmunds.com/media/news/concept.car/pontiac.solstice.coupe/pontiac.solstice.conv.500.jpg

PhilH
01-02-2003, 01:55 PM
The Solstice looks great, however, this is the next new product coming out of Pontiac...(check out that rear spoiler :rolleyes: )
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_la/grandprix/X04PN_GP011.jpg

Artslinger
01-02-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by TD
Nope. Bob Lutz (the original head of BMW M) is now in charge of product development at GM. He HATES the plastic ****. We have probably seen the last of GM models arriving with 200 lbs of plastic crap tacked on.

The roadster design he had commissioned (the Pontiac Solstice) is rather attractive, IMO.

http://www.edmunds.com/media/news/concept.car/pontiac.solstice.coupe/pontiac.solstice.conv.500.jpg

That is a great design... this is what the Z4 should have looked like... clean and mean.

doeboy
01-02-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by TD
Nope. Bob Lutz (the original head of BMW M) is now in charge of product development at GM. He HATES the plastic ****. We have probably seen the last of GM models arriving with 200 lbs of plastic crap tacked on.

The roadster design he had commissioned (the Pontiac Solstice) is rather attractive, IMO.


Cool. That's a move for the better... :) That plastic stuff is just nasty IMO.

That roadster does look rather interesting....

Kaz
01-02-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by PhilH
The Solstice looks great, however, this is the next new product coming out of Pontiac...(check out that rear spoiler :rolleyes: )
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_la/grandprix/X04PN_GP011.jpg

What amazes me is that they actually spent money on facelifting the Sunfire/Cavalier twins this year when a brand-new Delta-platform replacement for the ancient J-body is coming next year (and already exists in the Saturn ION).

doeboy
01-02-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by PhilH
The Solstice looks great, however, this is the next new product coming out of Pontiac...(check out that rear spoiler :rolleyes: )
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_la/grandprix/X04PN_GP011.jpg

that spoiler is gross IMO... :thumbdwn:

and the rest of it reminds me of an Alero.... ugly...

why do I make so many Alero references? I was driving a rental one for a couple weeks recently.... hehehe

shoulda picked a different company and tried a Focus.

Jetfire
01-02-2003, 02:07 PM
The new Grand Prix is not half bad. The styling certainly caters to a more staid, conservative bunch than the model it replaces. The feature set (including the competition group package) is aimed at enthusiasts. I think it'll do fine. The GTO looks more like the CURRENT Grand Prix to me in front.

Yeah, it'll have an LS1-like engine and a 6-speed, but it's still a Pontiac. I owned a Pontiac and I loved it. The exterior was fine and the powertrain was also fine. Hell, even the suspension was fine for the class. The interior was ergonomic, but it was a styling and quality NIGHTMARE. Other than the nice orange dash lighting (Pontiac had it first), there was little to like about the interior other than space and seat comfort. Materials, fit, and finish were not good, definitely below average in its class.

I hope the new Ponchos fix this niggling issue. If they can produce an interior worthy of its class, they will find themselves with a very solid car.

TD
01-02-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by PhilH
The Solstice looks great, however, this is the next new product coming out of Pontiac...(check out that rear spoiler :rolleyes: )
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_la/grandprix/X04PN_GP011.jpg

Sure, that's not gorgeous but note two things:

1. The lack of side cladding
2. It still not as ugly as recent BMW designs

AB
01-02-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by TD
I knew YOU were going to post that.

And just like the GTO comparo, yours REALLY falls apart behind the headlights. Worse, it needs crappy pics to even pull off the illusion.


The Grand Am vs. E36 bears an exponentially stronger resemblance thatn the comparo you offered up.

And I am not just saying that.

TD
01-02-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Ryan330Ci
The Grand Am vs. E36 bears an exponentially stronger resemblance thatn the comparo you offered up.

And I am not just saying that.

I think not. And I'm not just saying that.

For the record, here's the entire pic of that Pontiac.

http://autohobbypage.com/iown/gdamf.jpg

Kaz
01-02-2003, 02:31 PM
The proportions of the old Pontiac/3er are much closer than the new one even though individual features are off.

TD
01-02-2003, 02:34 PM
For the record, here's a pic of the Monaro on which the GTO is based.

http://www.southgate.com.au/monarofr.jpg

TD
01-02-2003, 02:36 PM
And here's a pic of the interior. Remember, it's from Australia, so the Holden itself is right-hand drive. Invert the pic in PS if you have a limited imagination.

http://www.autorev.com.au/images/holden_monaro-WP.jpg

Jetfire
01-02-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Kaz
The proportions of the old Pontiac/3er are much closer than the new one even though individual features are off.

The new Grand Prix looks like the E46 looks like the E36 looks like a Grand Am looks like a Pinto looks like a Yugo looks like a small mammal looks like a large rodent looks like a pile of dung in the meadow.

The proportions of the new Audi are similar to the E46 are similar to the E36 are similar to the old Pontiac are similar to a Pinto are similar to a Yugo are similar to a small mammal are similar to my ass. With clears.

Come on....short of comparing a C5 to a Suzuki Aerio, you're going to find similarities if you're looking for them.

Jetfire
01-02-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by TD
And here's a pic of the interior. Remember, it's from Australia, so the Holden itself is right-hand drive. Invert the pic in PS if you have a limited imagination.

http://www.autorev.com.au/images/holden_monaro-int.jpg

(pic didn't work, but I've seen it)

The interior looks fine, but I have my doubts about the materials or fit. And I also have my doubts about whether they'll import much of the interior at all.

TD
01-02-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Jetfire
(pic didn't work, but I've seen it)

The interior looks fine, but I have my doubts about the materials or fit. And I also have my doubts about whether they'll import much of the interior at all.

(I must have been swapping out pics for the larger one when you clicked.)

Pontiac would be foolish to put their crappy American interior in that car. It has a world-class (appearing) interior. I cannot assess fit and finish from pics, but it looks good. If they swap that out for the Fisher Price interior in current Pontiacs, they are complete idiots.

Kaz
01-02-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by TD
(I must have been swapping out pics for the larger one when you clicked.)

Pontiac would be foolish to put their crappy American interior in that car. It has a world-class (appearing) interior. I cannot assess fit and finish from pics, but it looks good. If they swap that out for the Fisher Price interior in current Pontiacs, they are complete idiots.

No worries there. I believe its coming with the original Australian Fisher Price interior, though I recall some story about some of the plastics (exterior I think) materials needing to be changed to hold up in US winters.

You ever sit in an old Catera? GM non-US interiors look decent but have the same quality (???) feel.

TD
01-02-2003, 02:48 PM
Here's an Australian review of the Monaro- http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,3603092%255E13232,00.html

Jetfire
01-02-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by TD
(I must have been swapping out pics for the larger one when you clicked.)

Pontiac would be foolish to put their crappy American interior in that car. It has a world-class (appearing) interior. I cannot assess fit and finish from pics, but it looks good. If they swap that out for the Fisher Price interior in current Pontiacs, they are complete idiots.

Most of Pontiac is idiotic. Well, I take that back. From what I can tell, there is definitely some strong talent and spirit within the brand, but the beancounters have successfully squashed spirit in favor of so-called "savings." Now that is idiotic. Bob Lutz is talking all the right talk about injecting passion back into GM, but only time will tell.

But yes, I agree with you. That interior is easily better than anything Pontiac has to offer. My only fear is that they will find ways to cut costs while converting to LHD. Not all of those interior panels are easily reversible, you know.

Kaz
01-02-2003, 02:55 PM
If they have a GTO they let people sit in on Saturday, I'll compare the interior in that to the Grand Prix that will inevitably be parked right next to it and see the Fisher Price-ness for myself. :lmao:

TD
01-02-2003, 02:58 PM
Here's another Monaro review- http://www.autospeed.com/A_1381/P_1/article.html

Unlike the first one I posted, this one is mixed. Still, I see reason to be optimistic.

Mr. The Edge
01-02-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by TD
Here's another Monaro review- http://www.autospeed.com/A_1381/P_1/article.html

Unlike the first one I posted, this one is mixed. Still, I see reason to be optimistic.

dbw?

gr8330
01-02-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by TD
Aside from the number of doors, I think it bears a strong resemblence to THIS-

(I couldn't find a pic in red. Use your imagination.)

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/341568.jpg

And for direct comparisons-

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030102/capt.1041526665.auto_sho_preview_ny801.jpg


and this....http://www.mg-xpower.com/btcc/home.asp?menu=10

The HACK
01-02-2003, 05:22 PM
WTF? We're on post #44 and still on topic?

Something is DEFINATELY wrong here...Next thing you know we'd be going to war with Iraq again. :yikes:

Kaz
01-02-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by The HACK
WTF? We're on post #44 and still on topic?

Something is DEFINATELY wrong here...Next thing you know we'd be going to war with Iraq again. :yikes:

Nope, HACK still can't spell 'definitely' so everything is still right with the world. :lmao:

ObD
01-02-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by The HACK
WTF? We're on post #44 and still on topic?

The thread, the

http://www.timewarp-toys.com/troll.jpg

,and the ignoring of blatant bandwidth wasting BS.

ObD
01-02-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by johnlew
Pontiac had it down better here...


http://www.bimmerfest.com/members/johnlew/e36compare.jpg


A better analogy:

http://christianandvince.com/journal/dog****.gif