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JPinTO
01-06-2003, 11:47 AM
http://www.vwvortex.com/news/01_03/NAIAS/R32/index.shtml

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/01_03/NAIAS/R32/7.jpg

Kaz
01-06-2003, 11:58 AM
They even have a ECE-spec one at the LA auto show with a window sticker stating that US specs will be available later this year.

I have to hand it to VW for going after lots of niche performance customers. -Standard GTI for someone who wants a little kick in the pants
-337 for enthusiasts who want the wick turned up a notch without too many doodads
-R32 for those who want everything.

In fact, the R32 is a Golf, not a GTI, since VW feels that the R32 loses the GTI's nimbleness and reflexes with the bigger engine and the AWD.

bluer1
01-06-2003, 11:59 AM
I'm holding out for the R34.

TranceLvr
01-06-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by bluer1
I'm holding out for the R34.

[Drool] I love that car

JonM
01-06-2003, 12:03 PM
I ordered the R32 steering wheel for my GTI this morning. Along with Passat W8 overhead sunroof switch/ambiance lighting and Bora lighted vents.

Jspeed
01-06-2003, 12:04 PM
I'm sure it's a great car, but no nose-heavy understeerer for me. Imagine if it were FR, it could very well blow the E46 compact out of the water.

JonM
01-06-2003, 12:09 PM
The Mk4s are the least heavy understeering VWs ever. But that doesn't say much. :rolleyes: Not sure how the 4-motion handles... probably (exactly) like a TT.

I would trade my left foot for an E46 Compact. For a while, I was emailing BMW NA once a week asking for one. :mad:

Kaz
01-06-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by JonM
The Mk4s are the least heavy understeering VWs ever. But that doesn't say much. :rolleyes: Not sure how the 4-motion handles... probably (exactly) like a TT.

I would trade my left foot for an E46 Compact. For a while, I was emailing BMW NA once a week asking for one. :mad:

I agree, Mk4 GTIs handle well, if sprung a bit softly. Out of the box it has way less body roll than a E46 SP.

And if it wasn't for those ugly front and rear lights (OK, and the fact its not sold here), I would have had a hard time choosing between the Compact and the Touring.

TD
01-06-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Jspeed
I'm sure it's a great car, but no nose-heavy understeerer for me. Imagine if it were FR, it could very well blow the E46 compact out of the water.

It's front-engine, AWD.

And you mean to tell my your 330i doesn't understeer badly?

Jspeed
01-06-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by TD
It's front-engine, AWD.
and your point? I'm sure the front wheels still carry more than 60% of the vehicle weight.

And you mean to tell my your 330i doesn't understeer badly?
In fact, it does not. After some careful tuning of alignment (mainly more negative camber up front and less toe-in in the rear) and tire pressure (40 psi all around) I can kick my tail out at will on the auto-x. (of course that's not the fastest way to go around) I'm about to complete my "tuning" getting rid of my staggered wheels and tires. The E46's chassis is beautifully balanced; it's just tuned to understeer from the factory. Any semi-knowledgeable enthusiast should be able to tune out the understeer.

I still can't believe you're trying to suggest that the E46 w/ 50:50 weight distribution is as much of an understeering pig as a nose-heavy FWD-based AWD Golf. It's either ignorance or hate. :tsk:

TD
01-06-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Jspeed

I still can't believe you're trying to suggest that the E46 w/ 50:50 weight distribution is as much of an understeering pig as a nose-heavy FWD-based AWD Golf. It's either ignorance or hate. :tsk:


I know you can tune the understeer out of the E46. But your dig at this R32 seemed more based in hate than fact, which is why I responded as I did. Yes, FWD-based car are nose heavy. The S4 is quite nose-heavy. I imagine the R32 will be as well.

But at a specific price-point, given the specs, the R32 is pretty damn appealing. To dismiss it based on it's FWD lineage is being narrow-minded as well.

Mr. The Edge
01-06-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by TD
I know you can tune the understeer out of the E46. But your dig at this R32 seemed more based in hate than fact,

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Mr. The Edge
01-06-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by TD

To dismiss it based on it's FWD lineage is being narrow-minded as well.

(Substitute DBW for FWD)


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

TD
01-06-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by atyclb
(Substitute DBW for FWD)


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


Okay, quick analogy...

I am quite sure most of us had a rather unpleasant experience with one form of alcohol or another at some point in our lives (usually at college) such that the mere smell of said type of alcohol is enough to make you feel sick. For me, it's bourbon. And it takes a lot to get past this memory.

Well, the same applies to me re: the DBW throttle. I hated it enough that it was the primary reason I ditched my 330i. That's a major grievance, not some petty annoyance. So I have a long way to go to get over my mental bias against DBW.

But, on this, I know that I will likely have to get over it as mechanical throttles WILL be relics within a few years.

Jspeed
01-06-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by TD
I know you can tune the understeer out of the E46. But your dig at this R32 seemed more based in hate than fact, which is why I responded as I did. Yes, FWD-based car are nose heavy. The S4 is quite nose-heavy. I imagine the R32 will be as well.

But at a specific price-point, given the specs, the R32 is pretty damn appealing. To dismiss it based on it's FWD lineage is being narrow-minded as well.
Eh! Wrong again! Thanks for playing...
My friends don't call me "The man of facts" for no reason.

One of my good friends ran his Golf GTI in the CACC Superstock class before, which is equivalent to your SCCA Street-prepared. He ran R-compounds on lightweight BBS rims, full coil-over suspension and anti-roll bars. The guy is good, as he managed to get the rookie of the year award. According to him the car still understeered badly, and I can see how he lifts his inside rear tire at every slalom. He drove my car on the course a couple of times and commented it's far more neutral.

I don't dismiss any car based on its nationality, manufacturer, or drivetrain layout alone. (I did say that it's a great car, didn't I?) Not all FWD's are bad understeerers. Some has slightly less than 60% front weight bias and some has 65%! (the Golf being closer to the latter) The Integra R is one of those FWD cars that can hand me my ass on the course consistently, and it's a car I would love to own.

edited for grammar

pdz
01-06-2003, 02:54 PM
still, neither is a car that i would buy if i were in that market.

i would still have to give the mini cooper S or the RSX more serious consideration as being better handlers, out of the box.

but i have no idea how much the R32 costs....if it is 25-27k, then it is in WRX STi and Evo VII range (well, those cars will be closer to 30k) and then it would be interesting to see how it goes.

i like my WRX wagon. it's very practical. this whole class of cars is so much fun sometimes i almost wonder, if i were on a serious car budget, if i would even be missing out on anything paying 10-15k more. the drivetrains are really, really rewarding in the affordable GT class. they just lack all of that refinement, sound deadening and luxury. i.e. things i could do without. hard to lose in this class.

nate
01-06-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Jspeed
and your point? I'm sure the front wheels still carry more than 60% of the vehicle weight.

In fact, it does not. After some careful tuning of alignment (mainly more negative camber up front and less toe-in in the rear) and tire pressure (40 psi all around) I can kick my tail out at will on the auto-x. (of course that's not the fastest way to go around) I'm about to complete my "tuning" getting rid of my staggered wheels and tires. The E46's chassis is beautifully balanced; it's just tuned to understeer from the factory. Any semi-knowledgeable enthusiast should be able to tune out the understeer.


You are right...

Thanks for the alignment tip, just getting the car back today with the -0.8 camber on the front makes a huge difference. And TD doesn't like to say anything good about the E46, so ignore HIS bias...

It is MUCH easier to tune out understeer on an E46 than an AWD car. You have use unusually stiff rear springs and a very beefy swaybar.

HW
01-06-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by bluer1
I'm holding out for the R34.

so what's the latest on the r35 news front?

Jspeed
01-07-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
... Thanks for the alignment tip, just getting the car back today with the -0.8 camber on the front makes a huge difference...
No problem, always glad to share w/ a fellow enthusiast. :thumbup:

bluer1
01-07-2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by HW
so what's the latest on the r35 news front?

I haven't heard.

The early speculation (design drawings) looked okay but the
prototype took a turn in an entirely different direction. Once
I saw it, I gave up - even if it's still Godzilla, it won't have
the R32-R33-R34 character.

pdz
01-07-2003, 08:52 AM
read somewhere that they might be running an R35 car in the GT class at lemans, maybe?

at least in a japanese race series, but maybe also LM.