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Evlengr
02-03-2007, 05:17 PM
I just bought a brand new 2007 X3. Only problem is no one seem to be able to tell me the speaker size dimensions and some other space constraints for a good stereo installation.
I take delivery next week.

My current vehicle has Boston Acoustic Pro 60 in the front of my car ( 6" components) and Boston Acoustic S65RC ( 6" co-axials) in the back with two Alpine Amps MRP-350 and MRP-250 as well as an enclosed 12" sub.

I was thinking of mounting the amps under the rear seat (they are not heated) since they use convection cooling and have withstood high temperatures before.

I would really like to re-purpose the speakers since they are not cheap and the best sounding seperates I have found in ages.

Can anyone tell me of any experience, knowledge or suggestions for placement that will keep the interior as close to its original state?

If not some hi end speakers that will fit?

kjboyd
02-03-2007, 05:21 PM
MY suggestion for keeping it close to its original state is to LEAVE IT in its original state.

Evlengr
02-03-2007, 05:34 PM
Sorry as much as I love the car--- the stereo system cannot compare to what I have. As an engineer for 3 radio stations. Leaving it alone is not an option. It would be like comparing a GM to a Bimmer in handling.

cbj
02-04-2007, 07:25 AM
Can't help you but I am all for a good HiFi in the car.

Evlengr
02-04-2007, 07:31 AM
No one has changed out their sound system? I know their good vehicles, but there isnt a stock system out there that can hit the full audio spectrum of 20-20kHz. My old one does. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

AzNMpower32
02-04-2007, 09:33 AM
There's a reason so few of us (on the entire Bimmerfest board, not just X3) have changed their audio. It's complex, very expensive, and time/labor intensive. It's not like changing out the audio in a Toyota or a Honda. There's electronics in there that weren't really meant to be touched. I'm sure someone at a professional audio store could do it, but it wouldn't be cheap and would void the warranty on your audio electronics, if not more.

That's why we all just leave it as is.

Richard in NC
02-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Check out the Bavarian Soundwerks sub forum. Their upgrade suggestions are highly praised and they seem very helpful.

Evlengr
02-04-2007, 01:58 PM
Azn and others. I design electronic circuitry and more so complex is not a problem. As far as voiding the mfg warranty on the audio equip...don't care it's dead weight. Going to check out the BSW..thanks. Also have several e mails placed to hi end stereo stores, mfg's, and BMW techs so will let you know what I find.

cbj
02-05-2007, 07:40 AM
Go for it Evlengr.

The only thing I hate about leasing my X3 is that I can't upgrade the stereo but then again the X3 is going to sound much better than my old Honda.

dug01
02-05-2007, 11:55 AM
There's a reason so few of us (on the entire Bimmerfest board, not just X3) have changed their audio. It's complex, very expensive, and time/labor intensive. It's not like changing out the audio in a Toyota or a Honda. There's electronics in there that weren't really meant to be touched. I'm sure someone at a professional audio store could do it, but it wouldn't be cheap and would void the warranty on your audio electronics, if not more.

That's why we all just leave it as is.

Also when you are tooling down the road at 65 MPH what does it matter--wind and road noise (allthough low) cancels out much of the "HI FI" of the sound. I had a Bose system in one of my Audi's and it was great in the parking lot--Im' for putting the power under the hood not in the dash!! I say leave the big sound systems for the kids with the Hondas-so they can impress their friends--the factory system serves me good. ;)

Evlengr
02-05-2007, 06:06 PM
As I stated before, I am an engineer for radio stations. Part of my job is to make sure our stations sound a certain way. A stock radio does not allow me to do this. I use my car's system to analyze the processing of our stations on my 1 1/2 hour commute. My current system has VU meters and multiple adjustments to the tonal quality that let me make better evaluations. Plus good sound systems are not just for "Kids". I didn't say loud I said with quality.

BTW comparing a Bose system to my current system is like comparing a Honda Civic to an M3.

So if someone can tell me how much clearance there is under the back seat (no heater) that would be great.

And for those interested The front and rear doors accept 5 1/4 component type speakers (BMW corporate gave me the metric measurements which I converted).

Cheers

dug01
02-05-2007, 06:16 PM
As I stated before, I am an engineer for radio stations. Part of my job is to make sure our stations sound a certain way. A stock radio doe not allow me to do this. I use my car's system to analyze the processing of our stations on my 1 1/2 hour commute. My current system has VU metters and multiple adjustments to the tonal quality that let me make better evaluations. Plus good sound systems are not just for "Kids". I didn't say loud I said with quality.

BTW comparing a Bose system to my current system is like comparing a Honda Civic to an M3.

So if someone can tell me how much clearance there is under the back seat (no heater) that would be great.

And for those interested The front and rear doors accept 5 1/4 component type speakers (BMW corporate gave me the metric measurements which I converted).

Cheers

Well excuse me-:yikes: -you must be very talented to be making multiple adjustments and watching VU meters while operating an automobile :D Good luck with that!

Evlengr
02-06-2007, 06:08 AM
Sorry that came off rude. DC traffic doesnt mean you drive to work. it means you go 80 miles an hour for 10 minutes and sit there for 30 minutes. A 25 mile drive typically take me 60 -90 minutes. Fun huh. Btw the adjustments are pre-set like hot keys on a computer or voice command like blue tooth. It also has Sirius, XM, plays any CD format, Ipod, computer interfaces, as well as muting the phone upon ringing. Now you see why a standard radio can't do what I like, Lol.

dug01
02-06-2007, 06:36 AM
Sorry that came off rude. DC traffic doesnt mean you drive to work. it means you go 80 miles an hour for 10 minutes and sit there for 30 minutes. A 25 mile drive typically take me 60 -90 minutes. Fun huh. Btw the adjustments are pre-set like hot keys on a computer or voice command like blue tooth. It also has Sirius, XM, plays any CD format, Ipod, computer interfaces, as well as muting the phone upon ringing. Now you see why a standard radio can't do what I like, Lol.
WOW :yikes: Way over my head--I grew up with vacuum tubes--I still have a Heathkit 12 Watt tube mono HiFI amp and just sold a hammond B3 organ with a Leslie tone cabinet--all tube and a sound that no digital sample has been able to capture! All I listen to now is the sat radio and C/D's--FM does not even exist for me--it is just another marketing tool with a little music thrown in. My car audio upgrades are just to get sat radio and MP3 capabilities--I will gladly leave the job of keeping the quality sound to guys like you--BTW I would be dead if I had to deal with traffic like you mention--I bailed out of central FL because of it(and other reasons) :tsk: --did you try Crutchfield for info--When I did my Z3radio and speakers they had all the speaker sizes and locations on their web site--worth a try!

midijab
02-06-2007, 11:48 AM
I'm still waiting for Bavarian Soundwerks to come out with the pure "drop-in" replacement kit for the stock speakers. It's 90% of the battle to get decent quality sound in these things.

Evlengr
02-06-2007, 05:58 PM
It appears that the doors take 5 1/4 for replacement. If so I am going to pick up the Boston Acoustic pro50's for the front doors and SX50's for the rear. These speakers will reproduce the 60-22kHz range (perfect human hearing is 20-20kHz for reference). Then with a roll off on the sub of 80 Hz it should cover the full audio spectrum. If I cannot mount the amps under the rear seat I will build a custom enclosure with color matching carpeting to mount in the rear area. The idea is not loud but quality at any volume. I will let you all know how this turns out if interested.

ub6ib9
02-06-2007, 06:27 PM
im pretty satisfied with the premium sound pacakage... cant really complain... my mids sound great and the 2 small amps under the driver n passenger seats knock just enough... no upgrade needed if u got the premium sound package imo... :thumbup:

Evlengr
02-09-2007, 10:47 AM
Get in my current vehicle and you will change your mind. Premium may be good for the average listener, but I have been involved in music industry as an engineer for over 30 years.

I will post photos when all re done in a month or so.

Plus my alarm system is designed to use frequencies that cause physical pain to the point your eyes close. You can't steal what you can't see.

kjboyd
02-09-2007, 10:49 AM
it's an X3, not a Farrari for goodness sake.

Evlengr
02-09-2007, 12:05 PM
Good if you care so little about your car give me yours. Then I can test all my new designs out on it. Lol.

dug01
02-09-2007, 01:32 PM
Plus my alarm system is designed to use frequencies that cause physical pain to the point your eyes close. You can't steal what you can't see.


SO if someone accidentally sets off your alarm it will cause physical pain?? :yikes: Good way to get your car trashed. :violent: Are you and the guy that wants louder horns to scare motorists related :rofl:

crazybelgian
02-09-2007, 01:39 PM
it's an X3, not a Farrari for goodness sake.

A lot of Ferrari's don't come with a stereo at all... at least it used to be like that.
The engine sound would probably overpower any music anyways...

Kiara J
02-09-2007, 02:24 PM
If you're not messing with NAV, it's worth upgrading sound systems for sure. I replaced the head unit & dropped Focal slims in the front of my e46 and they sound much better (with appropirate amp power) than any stock system I've heard. As far as the rears/subs go, YMMV on what/whether to install for fill/low end, etc. ... For about $1200-2K (parts and installation), you can get a MUCH better system than what's in there: clearer/cleaner, louder, more adjustable, Ipod, etc.

Evlengr
02-09-2007, 02:58 PM
SO if someone accidentally sets off your alarm it will cause physical pain?? :yikes: Good way to get your car trashed. :violent: Are you and the guy that wants louder horns to scare motorists related :rofl:

Ahh again you leap before you look. The alarm is on the inside of the car. It emits a 130db 1kHz frequency. They are directional to the front section, so as not to cause undue noise outside or to the back of the car. So the only person that is truly affected is the one inside the car trying to steal something or the car. He/she leaves the car and no problem. I also ahve an APRS system that will allow tracking similar to a GPS (ten times better than LoJack) I will not go into further detail since a lock is only as good as its key.

Evlengr
02-09-2007, 02:59 PM
Dup

tsventuri
02-11-2007, 06:17 PM
I'm a 2007 X3 owner and also have an interest in upgrading my audio. I had an elaborate system in my 2003 330xi and removed it and restored to factory when the lease was up. I had an Alpine head, XM radio, Alpine Ipod adapter, Boston Acoustic Pro 6, 2 JL audio amps and a JL Audio Sub. I am looking to do something similar in X3 but money is tight - bought a business.

If I could make a suggestion to anyone who leases their cars, most professional installers can assist in design and will of course install a system that can be converted back to stock. The key is the care they take in removing doorpanels, dashboards and the factory wiring harnesses. Many 3rd party companies make adapters to use some of the factory wiring. I know a very good installer at Tweeter and together we designed a great system.

In my 330, I had enclosures made to house the Boston Pro 6 separates and attach them to the kickpanels. That where the dead pedal on drivers side would be... They were pointed directly at me for proper imaging. I bi-amped them and had the sub in the trunk. There was no need for rear fill-in speakers. The system rocked!

The X3 speaker housings will not accomodate the 6" separate or coaxial. I haven't checked to see if my custom enclosures from 330 will sit nicely in X3. But I would recommend this to anyone if they are concerned about preserving the vehicles doors and/or will wan tto convert the vehicle back to stock at end of lease. By the way, Tweeter removes all of your aftermarket components for free...

I consider anyone in the back seat not a true audiophile so if I only have good speakers in front - it's too bad for them. I have taken the door panels of a BMW apart and they are more elaborate and solid then anything including a MB.

If I could afford it and had to buy a new set of speakers to fit the factory allowance, I would consider a speaker by "Focal". I would consider just doing the fronts again and perhaps use the factory rear for fill.

Here is my question to all those following along. I know there are several aftermarket components that will allow the use of the factory head deck and add XM and full Ipod controls. Can I use my Alpine KCA-420i with Ai-net (Ipod adapter) and my Alpine TUA-T020XM (XM tuner) with the factory just like the aftermarket add-ons?

And if so, what other cables, plugs or adapters are needed to do the job?

Regardless of whether my Alpine components will work, does anyone have detailed instructions INCLUDING Photos showing the install of the XM / IPOD adapters? How about Photos and details of the Shark fin connections?

Evlengr
02-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Ok that's trippy.

The guys that worked with me on my old install were Tweeter as well. I used to work at Bryn Mawr stereo which was bought by Tweeter.

They will be working with me on this install as well. Some of the gear is custom ( I am an RF engineer and built things to suit my personal and professional requireements).

I am actually using a Pioneer Head unit with 2 Alpine Amps and speakers TBD since I cant repurpose my current Boston Acoustics (size constraints). 12" sub in hardwood sealed box.

I have both Sirius, XM, and an Ipod hooked up. My next venture will be to incorporate Wi-Max access for total broadband streaming.

If you have ideas with amp placement please share them. I may have to custom design an amp enclosure.

When all is done I will show some pictures.

Evlengr
02-12-2007, 05:37 PM
I believe I have found a place to hide away amps and external components like the XM transceiver. directly behing the back seat and before the lift panel there appears to be a huge amount of dead space. If you left up the tab covers for the "Latch" system you will see a huge area underneath. Therefore, no modifications and nothing showing to attract unwanted visitors. More to come.

phuksi
02-15-2007, 01:46 PM
I believe I have found a place to hide away amps and external components like the XM transceiver. directly behing the back seat and before the lift panel there appears to be a huge amount of dead space. If you left up the tab covers for the "Latch" system you will see a huge area underneath. Therefore, no modifications and nothing showing to attract unwanted visitors. More to come.

There is some space available. At least in the left side of it. Depending on the equipment in your vehicle there are some modules on the right side (hitch etc.). But that is a great place to install additional stuff. And the floor piece is easy to remove.

- p

Evlengr
02-16-2007, 06:27 PM
Thanks---- I have an unexpected trip to London next week and then will get to work on all of this. Can't take conventional sound system or FM much longer, Haaha

tromar1
02-24-2007, 04:16 PM
It appears that the doors take 5 1/4 for replacement. If so I am going to pick up the Boston Acoustic pro50's for the front doors and SX50's for the rear. These speakers will reproduce the 60-22kHz range (perfect human hearing is 20-20kHz for reference). Then with a roll off on the sub of 80 Hz it should cover the full audio spectrum. If I cannot mount the amps under the rear seat I will build a custom enclosure with color matching carpeting to mount in the rear area. The idea is not loud but quality at any volume. I will let you all know how this turns out if interested.
Hello...I use to own an X3 and did change the OEM config. The door speakers were 4 inches. You asked about under the rear seat??? what for? Amp placement?

As for what head unit would match the interior...I guess any with the orange light...however, I didn't chose a headunit based on color of illumination.

I would suggest using the aftermarket installation kit for the Z3 instead of the one made for the X3. The Z3 kit is centered while the X3 kit is off centered. I had both and chose the Z3 kit.

As for XM and/or sirius, once you change the OEM headunit all things are possible.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95355

iversonm
02-24-2007, 05:08 PM
It appears that the doors take 5 1/4 for replacement. If so I am going to pick up the Boston Acoustic pro50's for the front doors and SX50's for the rear. These speakers will reproduce the 60-22kHz range (perfect human hearing is 20-20kHz for reference). Then with a roll off on the sub of 80 Hz it should cover the full audio spectrum. If I cannot mount the amps under the rear seat I will build a custom enclosure with color matching carpeting to mount in the rear area. The idea is not loud but quality at any volume. I will let you all know how this turns out if interested.

I doubt there's much room under the rear seats, and I'd think cooling would be a huge problem.

There is some space under the cargo floor that you might be able to fit an amp into.
There is a foam tray which holds the ski bag and tool kit. It would be easy to customize this area, and it is conveniently right next to the battery.

There is also two compartments on either side of the cargo area. The driver's side holds some of the stock audio and nav systems, while the passenger side holds the warning triangle (if you did a European delivery). I would think that this would be a candidate for either the amps or the sub, if you can do some creative packaging.

Evlengr
03-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Hiya --Back from London and it is confirmed that there is more than adequate space for two Alpine amps in the rear lower deck spacing in front (where the "Latch System" attaches) of the battery compartment. It is very easy to open with only three nylon attachment tabs. I have taken picture of this. "Metra" offers installation kits for head units. Tromar1 is correct the Z3 adaptor centers the radio better, but I chose the X3 so I have room to surface mount my Ipod next to it. The back doors are only a 4" mount but I am still not sure about the front doors. If I can squeeze a 5" I will try the Boston Acoustic SX50's and mount the tweeters on the interior of the side mirrors for better stereo seperation.

Pictures will be taken at every oppurtunity so as to help future audiophiles. The install project is set for 03/24 and I will post as to its out come for those interested.

jackrinse
04-24-2007, 05:11 AM
Hi Evlengr

I have been interested in your thread regarding the audio upgrades.
I have just bought a 2006 X3 and although I love the car I have the usual problem with the sound!
I would be grateful of any measurements you can give me re the space available for front and rear etc.
I have listened to the Focal slim100 and I found them a bit hard, I did not listen to them with an amp so perhaps the HU was underpowered which caused the hardness?
I have read that the MB Quart Q-Line QSD 210 fit the X3 but I am unsure of this info, any thoughts on this one?
I also would be grateful of any suggestions of how to upgrade the under seat drivers.

Thanks for your time
Gareth

Kiara J
04-29-2007, 11:49 PM
Gareth- If you thought the Focals were hard (did you mean bright?), then the MB Quarts are likely going to sound bright as well. I dunno if the Focals sound good without adequate power; they may be inefficient that way. But, everyone's ear is different

Evlengr
04-30-2007, 10:03 AM
Gareth,

just a side note. Make sure you get some gurantee of some sort from the seller. I spoke to the folks at "Tweeter" (mid to hi end audio store) and they informed me that that particular model was disc. over two years ago.

And KJ is right the spkr will require an amp to sound good. The Alpine you mentioned in PM will be fine.

r207
10-12-2007, 02:56 PM
Ok, I have been following this for a while and the guys that do my installs have come up with a pretty damn good system form my X3...budget was not an issue for them and this is what went in...

Up front i have a set of focal 100slims in the doors, this is a direct replaement of the factory spear and tweeter. Under the front seats a set of 6.5inch Focals that match up with the set of splits in the doors and all run off the same cross over acting like a 3 way setup. The front sounds amazing however still a little bright for my liking.

In the rear doors the stock speakers have been left as they dont really need to be changed.

To get the signal to the amps we used 4201 Alpine line converters as the Rockford 360 was giving alot of noise. not a useful product when a $40 item does a better job.

In the rear a 4 channel Focal amp was mounted in the rear under the floor just behind the battery, there is plenty of cooling and its all tucked away nicely.

Now for the SUB, i needed to not loose any space whatsoever in the trunk so the installer needed to come up with something that was good for SQ as well functional. They removed the foam that sits next to the battery and custom mounted a Focal 8inch berilum(spelling???) this sub pounds like i have one 12 in the back.... to finish off a Phoenix GOld bass cube gives me the bass adjustment i need.

It sounds amazing and listened to about 5 sets of different setups before i chose and this is definatly the way to go IMO.
In addition i added a pair of ALpine monitors in the stock headrests and a DVD player in the centre console, and 200g hard drive with music and movies on it.

When i work out how to post pics ill put some up

thanks;)

Evlengr
10-13-2007, 09:43 AM
You are aware that the speakers under the seats are an 8" diameter? I have been looking for the right speaker to mount there since I can run two, muwhahaha.

Did the installer mention depth? I have not removed the speakers at this point to check that. I only took off the grill.

If BMWNA will ever straighten up this whole "Stuttering" tranny issue. I will look into it. It sounds like those Focal subs would do a nice job.

r207
10-15-2007, 05:47 PM
i am aware however what 8inch driver is going to fit under the seat........nothing, the 8inch sub i have in the trunk barely fits......6.5 slims were the only thing going in there its a 2 second job to take them out, just do it and stop wondering ...

the focals they are great

Evlengr
10-15-2007, 10:53 PM
Sorry not sinking anymore time or money into this vehicle until the get the stupid transmission problem fixed since I will be putting all the stock stuff back in when I go for a Lemon Law return!

dezy
10-21-2007, 02:07 AM
Ok, I have been following this for a while and the guys that do my installs have come up with a pretty damn good system form my X3...budget was not an issue for them and this is what went in...

Up front i have a set of focal 100slims in the doors, this is a direct replaement of the factory spear and tweeter. Under the front seats a set of 6.5inch Focals that match up with the set of splits in the doors and all run off the same cross over acting like a 3 way setup. The front sounds amazing however still a little bright for my liking.

In the rear doors the stock speakers have been left as they dont really need to be changed.

To get the signal to the amps we used 4201 Alpine line converters as the Rockford 360 was giving alot of noise. not a useful product when a $40 item does a better job.

In the rear a 4 channel Focal amp was mounted in the rear under the floor just behind the battery, there is plenty of cooling and its all tucked away nicely.

Now for the SUB, i needed to not loose any space whatsoever in the trunk so the installer needed to come up with something that was good for SQ as well functional. They removed the foam that sits next to the battery and custom mounted a Focal 8inch berilum(spelling???) this sub pounds like i have one 12 in the back.... to finish off a Phoenix GOld bass cube gives me the bass adjustment i need.

It sounds amazing and listened to about 5 sets of different setups before i chose and this is definatly the way to go IMO.
In addition i added a pair of ALpine monitors in the stock headrests and a DVD player in the centre console, and 200g hard drive with music and movies on it.

When i work out how to post pics ill put some up

thanks;)

Wow... sounds like a great set up with those Focals. Share your pix!!:bigpimp:

dezy
10-22-2007, 08:30 PM
Sorry not sinking anymore time or money into this vehicle until the get the stupid transmission problem fixed since I will be putting all the stock stuff back in when I go for a Lemon Law return!

Hi Evlengr, if you are still interested in replacing the subs, Earthquake SWS 8" should fit nicely.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53945&page=8

Evlengr
10-26-2007, 08:28 AM
Dezy: Thanks just looked at the TS-SW841D's specs and they look very promising. I would love to get rid of the Alpine 12" I have in the back now (space constraints).

BTW I have a loaner today while my tranny is being re-flashed.

Now I know why I got rid of the stock system (shudder). They had their fake dsp (it's really just a reverb) set on. Omigosh I thought my radio stations processing had blown up and I had to make an emergency run to the transmitter site.

Don't know how people can think that's an acceptable sound. Oh well each to his own.

And thanks for the tip. If they get my tranny right this time I will go ahead with the speakers.

Cheers

dssoup
10-28-2007, 08:10 PM
Evlengr and all:
...following this thread with interest for a friend with a 2007 X3. We are interested to know who/what the OEM is for the premium sound setup. Crutchfield offers no hint, and most of the other information out there is immature. Some interesting but simple ustom mods may be available depending on the manufacturer. Any info from those who have pulled the factory head units? BTW, I hope the tranny flash works, because your plans are ambitious. Have you considered a dual heads-up display for the VU meters?

harrymudd
10-28-2007, 08:59 PM
Bavarian Soundwerks (found on the "BMW Forums" page) is coming out with a Stage 1 speaker upgrade kit in a couple months for the X3. I think some increase in amplification might be in order as well though.

dezy
10-29-2007, 02:23 AM
Base on my knowledge, most BMW HU & amps should be Alpine and speakers are Philips which is now Siemens VDO. Well... some say that the premium sound is from Harmon Kardon which I found no info on their website.:dunno:

Evlengr, I forgot to add that Hertz had a similar sub that will fit and I reckon will outperform the Eartquakes.

http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/file/img/img_space8.jpg
http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/file/tec/tec_space8.gif

40hz should be low enough in a car....:D
Cost wise may be on the higher side ~$600 for a pair. This woofers can also be use as mid drivers for your next car just by adding their recommended x-over and tweeter. Pretty flexible.:thumbup:

Let me know when you change the crap subs. I am still waiting for my Focal Vslim to arrive...

Evlengr
10-29-2007, 08:07 AM
The crap subs went out long ago. I am currently using Alpine 12" subs and a MRP-M450 to power them. As well as Infinity 4" with an MRP-F450 for them.

I roll the x-over off at 40 hz so that is a nice thought on the speakers.

The speakers I pulled out where defintely not Phillips in nature but some Czech off brand I have never heard of (and you could tell--tiny magnets and paper).

Nor was that HU an Alpine of any sort -- If it was I'm sure a designer is hiding his head somewhere.

I am still waiting to find a customized door panel as I don't want to cut into the door. That will allow full size component 6.5 mids.

Never thought of a heads up at this point. I am trying to keep the surface look as minimal as possible. Part of the reason to move away from conventional sub and try out the 8" retro-fit.

Thanks for the kind words on the flash. We had horrendous rains the past few days so the dealer and I opted to wait til today to get my vehicle back rather than driving in torrential down pours on a Friday in DC traffic to get it back.