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FDMeloan
02-08-2007, 07:46 AM
I am about ready to retire my 1995 525iT and have been considering the purchase of a 2007 X3. However, when I recently attended the Washington, D. C. auto show I was impressed with the forthcoming Land Rover LR2. My question is this: Is anyone else in the market for an X3 also looking at the Land Rover LR2? While the LR2 won't be available in the U.S. until April, 2007 I personally think it may be worth waiting for.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the LR2?

Jon Shafer
02-08-2007, 07:49 AM
Hey Fred,

If the LR2 is anything like the Freelander (they do share DNA), I'd go with the X3.

Also, a good strategy to avoid early LR product launches (i.e. beta-tests); at least that was my experience anyway while GSM of LR brand...

Hope this helps!

--Jon

adc
02-08-2007, 08:06 AM
I am about ready to retire my 1995 525iT and have been considering the purchase of a 2007 X3.

Hey Fred,

If you want to take an extended test drive of our 05 with SP and stick, send me a PM... you know, to help you make up your mind. I feel I owe you for your sensible and timely advice you gave me when the dealer damaged the X on their lot... :thumbup:

kyfdx
02-08-2007, 08:26 AM
I am about ready to retire my 1995 525iT and have been considering the purchase of a 2007 X3. However, when I recently attended the Washington, D. C. auto show I was impressed with the forthcoming Land Rover LR2. My question is this: Is anyone else in the market for an X3 also looking at the Land Rover LR2? While the LR2 won't be available in the U.S. until April, 2007 I personally think it may be worth waiting for.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the LR2?

The LR2 uses a different engine from the Freelander (Volvo sourced?), so the major problem with the Freelander will be addressed.. But, if the rest of it is anything like the Freelander, then run far, far away...

Check out the Land Rover Freelander discussion on Edmunds... It will make you cry..

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eea90db/1081

I know the LR2 is not a Freelander, but if you still consider buying one after reading through that discussion, you are a braver man than I am..

regards,
kyfdx

AzNMpower32
02-08-2007, 08:50 AM
One of the two models you mentioned (X3 and LR2) is based on a vehicle that has a history of serious reliability issues. The other isnt.

cbj
02-08-2007, 09:08 AM
I looked into the LR2 but liked the X3 with a more powerfull engine and better handling. I do not need the extra off road technology that the LR2 offers. Quality of the new car who knows but the quality of the X3 seems great plus the lease offer I got seems difficult to beat.

stangmatt66
02-08-2007, 09:19 AM
I looked at the LR2 at the LA Auto Show. It seemed like a nice CUV, but I didn't like the mish-mash of LR3 and Range Rover styling. Also, while it has a new I-6 from the Volvo S80, it does 0-60 in 8.2 seconds, too slow for my taste.

lsleelee
02-08-2007, 10:57 AM
IIRC the LR2 shares almost nothing with the Freelander 1. This conversation is exactly why Freelander 2 and Discovery 3 are renamed LR2 and LR3 in the US. You can tell people 'all new from the platform up' all you want, it doesn't matter if the old model left a bad taste in their mouth. Smart move on Land Rover's part. Not as smart as making the FL1 and Disco2 better vehicles would have been, but you know...lol

And personally I think the X3 is one of the few mis-steps in BMW's current line-up, styling-wise. I prefer the LR2 exterior and interior. But my opinion's worth what it cost you.

FDMeloan
02-08-2007, 01:00 PM
I am very appreciative of everyone's comments posted to date. I am also aware of the sad reputation of the LR2's predecessor, the Freelander. Unfortunately, this decision is one that will probably be made based on emotion rather than intelligent analysis as I just think the LR2 is a much better looking "truck" than the X3. Mechanically, for the most part, the LR2 appears to be basically a Volvo under the skin.

In any event the LR2 won't be here until April and I won't buy one until I have seen it in the flesh up close and can drive it for an hour or so.

I do know this. With all the options the LR2 prices out at an MSRP of less than $40K ($39,950 if all my current info is correct) and an X3 with all the equivalent options that I want prices out at an MSRP of $45,595. Even considering an appropriate discount from the MSRP of the X3 it still would cost in the neighborhood of $43,625+/-.

Stay tuned. It will be fun regardless of the final decision.

My $0.02. YMMV

cbj
02-08-2007, 01:09 PM
Just remember to move over when I pass you in the X3 :)

chuck92103
02-08-2007, 01:20 PM
X3, LR, or what about a Lexus GX470?:dunno: It is based on the 4Runner chassis. I think it is a good looking truck. Plus it has a V8, 3rd row seating, and loaded it is the same price as an X3 and gets better gas mileage.

pilotman
02-08-2007, 02:29 PM
X3, LR, or what about a Lexus GX470?:dunno: It is based on the 4Runner chassis. I think it is a good looking truck. Plus it has a V8, 3rd row seating, and loaded it is the same price as an X3 and gets better gas mileage.

I have a 2007 4Runner and like it.

I like the Lexus version, just not willing to pay 56k when I paid 29k for mine.

You are comparing very different animals here. I am quite confident the LR2 won't handle nearly as well as the BMW.

What do you want, on road performance? if so, go BMW.

Keep in mind the LR2 isn't really meant for offroading, in fact, it is the only rover that lacks a low range 4wd transfer case. That kills its "offroad" capability.

Even if the LR2 doesn't suffer from the freelander's horrific reliablity, there are much better choices out there IMO.

chuck92103
02-08-2007, 02:45 PM
I have a 2007 4Runner and like it.

I like the Lexus version, just not willing to pay 56k when I paid 29k for mine.

You are comparing very different animals here. I am quite confident the LR2 won't handle nearly as well as the BMW.

What do you want, on road performance? if so, go BMW.

Keep in mind the LR2 isn't really meant for offroading, in fact, it is the only rover that lacks a low range 4wd transfer case. That kills its "offroad" capability.

Even if the LR2 doesn't suffer from the freelander's horrific reliablity, there are much better choices out there IMO.

The 4Runner is almost $45k for the limited, the Lexus is about $53k loaded pretty well. So not far off.

Also, I don't believe I have ever see a Lexus, X3/5, or LR off road. Mainly 4Runners, Jeeps, and Pickups.

Parking in a vacant lot is about as far off road Luxury SUVs go.

lsleelee
02-08-2007, 02:56 PM
In any event the LR2 won't be here until April and I won't buy one until I have seen it in the flesh up close and can drive it for an hour or so.

I do know this. With all the options the LR2 prices out at an MSRP of less than $40K ($39,950 if all my current info is correct)


Where have you heard release date and pricing data already?

Parking in a vacant lot is about as far off road Luxury SUVs go.

My Disco has been off road many times. It's stock and I would put it against any lifted, snorkled, whatever-other-BS-ed Cherokee or 4Runner any day.

chuck92103
02-08-2007, 03:06 PM
Where have you heard release date and pricing data already?



My Disco has been off road many times. It's stock and I would put it against any lifted, snorkled, whatever-other-BS-ed Cherokee or 4Runner any day.

I have no idea what a disco is. Maybe I will google it.

chuck92103
02-08-2007, 03:11 PM
I have no idea what a disco is. Maybe I will google it.

OK, short for Discovery. :thumbup: So there is someone who takes their expensive SUV off roading. Unusual.

Bobert
02-08-2007, 06:12 PM
Not a big fan of the LR2 looks, especially from the front. Then again Jermey Clarkson characterized the BMW X3 looks as "ghastly". If the X3 looks are ghastly, I would characterize the LR2 looks maybe as "hideously ghastly". :D

http://auto.zoznam.sk/img/art/460_449bb2c950b8f.jpg

cbj
02-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I don't think Clarkson is a big fan of any SUVs. I have not seem him give any love to any SUV except if its a kitted out Land Rover ready to drive across Africa.

FDMeloan
02-09-2007, 05:56 AM
Someone said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". If I thought the X3 was better looking than the LR2 I would have already purchased one.

http://home.att.net/~fdmeloan/LandRoverLR2.jpg
http://home.att.net/~fdmeloan/LandRoverLR2a.jpg
http://home.att.net/~fdmeloan/LandRoverLR2b.jpg
http://home.att.net/~fdmeloan/LandRoverLR2c.jpg

MTLX3
02-09-2007, 07:06 AM
Looks wise, they are both good looking vehicles. I actually think the LR2 is a great looking mini SUV. I like the family resemblance to the LR3 and RR. Based on looks and looks alone I would have probably considered it myself.

But having considered the Freelander a couple of years ago, I had lurked around on Freelander Forums and all I read were horror stories about reliability issues... Sure, the new LR2 is new and has Volvo or Ford parts (BTW that's not exactly reassuring... I had quite a few issues with my Volvo S60 AWD 2.5T), but it remains a RR and RRs have a really bad rep when it comes to reliability, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

But I really don't think these 2 vehicles are that similar except for the fact that they are both mini utes. The BMW is much sportier both with a stronger engine and with far superior handling. The LR2 will be more luxurious and the suspension settings are set for comfort rather then handling.

My 2 cents...

kyfdx
02-09-2007, 07:25 AM
IIRC the LR2 shares almost nothing with the Freelander 1. This conversation is exactly why Freelander 2 and Discovery 3 are renamed LR2 and LR3 in the US. You can tell people 'all new from the platform up' all you want, it doesn't matter if the old model left a bad taste in their mouth. Smart move on Land Rover's part. Not as smart as making the FL1 and Disco2 better vehicles would have been, but you know...lol

And personally I think the X3 is one of the few mis-steps in BMW's current line-up, styling-wise. I prefer the LR2 exterior and interior. But my opinion's worth what it cost you.

I agree that the LR2 is a better looking vehicle, and if you aren't leasing, it is probably cheaper, as well..

I'm not sure about it being "all new", though... I'm not sure Ford has been pouring those kind of resources into Land Rover. Other than the new engine, I'm betting a lot of stuff is carried over. And... built in the same factory?

Don't get me wrong.. I think Land Rovers are very cool.. I'm just not sure I would take a chance on one... and certainly not in the first year.. (assuming it is all new).

regards

kjboyd
02-09-2007, 08:17 AM
family resemblance anyone?
here is the new 2008 Ford Escape. looks like the same truck to me.

UncleJ
02-09-2007, 08:30 AM
My personal view is the LR2 looks like a tarted up Mercury Mariner/Ford Escape. I seriously wanted an LR a few years ago but the horror stories in the various forae quickly disabused me of that notion. I am sure that the LR folks are willing to put up with their legendary unreliability in exchange for the off road credentials the brand offers. I will cheerfully live without both and just enjoy my X3.

lsleelee
02-09-2007, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure about it being "all new", though... I'm not sure Ford has been pouring those kind of resources into Land Rover. Other than the new engine, I'm betting a lot of stuff is carried over. And... built in the same factory?


No, you're right, with "all new" I was refering to the LR3, which except for a very heavily modified Jaguar V8 was developed tires-up from scratch. It's really just Jaguar that Ford has been giving $25/year to for R&D, 'cause Land Rover actually makes them money.

The LR2 does in fact have a new(ish) platform, a modified version of the EUCD platform Land Rover co-developed with Ford, Volvo, and Jaguar. Lighter versions appear/will appear on the Volvo S80, future Volvo SUVs, and possibly even some Jaguars. And, of course, it now has a Volvo I6 because former supplier Rover no longer exists. Also zero sheet metal carried over, and though I see the Escape/Mariner 'family resemblance' comments, they share nothing. I'm not pushing it too far to call this 'all new.'

Although neither it nor the X3 are particularly good looking vehicles. We've been talking about things like 0-60 speeds rather than things like ground clearances so I'm not sure the OP really has to have an SUV. Have you thought about a 328i Wagon? Personally I'd prefer that to the LR2 or an X3.

FDMeloan
02-09-2007, 09:20 AM
Isleelee:

Indeed I have considered the 328xiT sport wagon and actually I would prefer it over the X3 or the LR2. Unfortunately, it has very little usable space in the rear due to the sloping roof and it is rather small to begin with. Thus the 328xiT doesn't provide me with the space that I desire for our dog's cage and luggage when we go on trips. The 328xiT also has run-flat tires, iDrive if you get the nav unit, and no oil dipstick. These features do not enhance the desirability of the 328xiT. In the end, I had to rule out any thought of buying the 328xiT. If I could get a BMW with the size of my 1995 525iT and the benefits of the current engines and xDrive I would buy it in a heartbeat.

kjboyd
02-09-2007, 09:41 AM
FD, have you considered an Audi Quatro Wagon?

Rob V
02-09-2007, 08:43 PM
I had a Freelander before I got my X3 and I can confirm the reliability issues that the LR had. Good Lord! A few of the things that sold me on the X3 was the fact that the best atributes of the BMW can be appreciated every day on every drive while the Freelander can only be appreciated off-road. I won't deny that taking the Freelander off-road was an absolute blast. I don't think people realize just how capable and frigg'n solid that thing is. But that's one of the problems with LR's. Since they are built for off-roading (even the Freelander/LR2) it takes a serious hit on 90% of your driving since it's on-road.

Basically, I got the Freelander for it's off-road abilities and very seldome enjoyed it. I got the X3 because of it's on-road abilities and enjoy it with every drive. It simply doesn't get old...ever.

The other major selling point to me with regards to the X3 was the warranty. The fact that you don't pay a dime for any service within the first 4 years is a blessing that you can't appreciate until you have to pay $220 for an oil change on a LR, $300 for regular scheduled maintenance, $400 for brakes at 15k miles, etc. That stuff adds up fast. I will say this though, LR service departments and dealerships are awesome to work with. I haven't had my Freelander in almost 2 years and I can guarantee that if I were to walk in tomorrow there would be at least 3-4 people that would call me by my first name. If LR were to change their warranty to be complimentary for the first few years I just may have to go back. Well...that is until I hop back in my X3 and go for a drive.

BTW, my gf has gotten to know both vehicles very well (Freelander and X3) and while she likes BMW she can't wait for the LR2. But, again, the service cost might keep her away.

Trurl
02-11-2007, 07:21 AM
I was seriously considering Freeleander before X3. I drove both. And found them to be absolutely different vehicles. LR has an offrad construction philosophy. BMW is an onroad car, though it performs unexpectedly well in difficult offroad situations.

When you start driving the X3 all you see, is the road. When you drive the FL2, tou see the luxury cockpit. The FL2 automatic gearbox is no comparison to BMW's. The difference in onroad handling of FL2 and X3 is huge. If you want to enjoy your car on your every ride - go with an X3.