PDA

View Full Version : love that pdf. thanks all. impressive/what's the point of the 550?


m123xyz
03-03-2007, 05:03 PM
535i/xi runs same 0-60 as 335i wonder if that means a 5 will get sub 5 runs like the 3 does. would be

a) amazing
b) what's the point/value of the 550?


...longest thread title ever?

irobinson
03-03-2007, 10:53 PM
535i/xi runs same 0-60 as 335i wonder if that means a 5 will get sub 5 runs like the 3 does. would be

a) amazing
b) what's the point/value of the 550?


...longest thread title ever?

There is no replacement for displacement.

And...sometimes you just gotta have a V-8.

uddhamsoto
03-03-2007, 11:51 PM
the 535i might steal sales numbers from the 540i (both have circa 306hp).. the 550i should still have a reason for being, though..

Rubber Ducky
03-04-2007, 03:11 AM
b) what's the point/value of the 550?

Find out. Drive one.

mullman
03-04-2007, 04:40 AM
There is no replacement for displacement.

And...sometimes you just gotta have a V-8.

+1 truer words never spoken.

Had V8 last time, now find the six is a good trade-off between performance and mileage.
Looking forward to the 535i6 next lease.

krash
03-04-2007, 07:50 AM
The performance similarities are probably only temporary.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a nice increase in HP for the 550 soon (maybe up to 400hp).
535=300hp
550=400hp
M5=500hp

Also, your point is a good one. Many people had a hard time justifying a 550 over a 530 in the first place. The 535 makes an even stronger case for the less expensive, more fuel efficient 6 cylinder variant.

chrischeung
03-05-2007, 12:28 PM
This is a nice argument. I'd say that the performance of the 2 are so similar, I'd be happy with either. With the 550, you do get the Carbon Black color, 172s, and body kit options. That must be worth some of the price differential.

So, I'll make a choice based on whichever one has the better lease deal come changeover time :).

Pjuran
03-05-2007, 04:32 PM
smooth and consitant power, no turbo lag, no turbos whirling, runs cooler, engine is under less stress, less to fix and makes more of a statement. Just BETTER all around.

AzNMpower32
03-05-2007, 04:46 PM
Sounds different, responds differently. Interior equipment is likely different too, so factor that in. And then some people just gotta have a V8........

I mean, the conundrum could be worse. Who would pay more to buy a Lexus GS430 V8 when the GS350 V6 has more power and costs less?

Btw, there is no turbo lag, no sound of turbos spooling even on the twin-turbo N54. Have you been/driven one lately, Pjuran?

Robert A
03-05-2007, 04:49 PM
I never thought there was any rational point to the 550i on American raods. It's a heavy, bulky car the suffers from an overweight engine and driveline. That said, if you want to know the answer to (b), take a 550i on the freeway at 70mph and step on it. Your question will be answered when you see how quickly it gets to 100 mph.

535i/xi runs same 0-60 as 335i wonder if that means a 5 will get sub 5 runs like the 3 does. would be

a) amazing
b) what's the point/value of the 550?


...longest thread title ever?

BMWSTL
03-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Interior equipment is likely different too, so factor that in.


Interior equipment is the same as long as you select the premium package on the 535i (standard on the 550i). ZSP interior is the same as well.

Lou

gr8330
03-05-2007, 06:55 PM
550 has torque, try and find that in the 535

BMWSTL
03-05-2007, 07:09 PM
550 has torque, try and find that in the 535

Found it.

The 535i's twin turbo has 300 lb-ft of torque from 1400 rpm to just over 5000 rpm; it's flat throughout that range. The 550i's torque peaks at 360 lb-ft at 3400 rpm (specs per BMW). I don't have the torque curve on the 550i, but am pretty sure it's not flat from lower rpm's to peak.

The 535's engine is far from shabby. Again per BMW, it pulls the 535i from 0-60 only .2 seconds slower than the 550i.

Lou

Robert A
03-05-2007, 08:00 PM
All of this is meaningless if you live in Los Angeles. Where are you going to use this much power?

Found it.

The 535i's twin turbo has 300 lb-ft of torque from 1400 rpm to just over 5000 rpm; it's flat throughout that range. The 550i's torque peaks at 360 lb-ft at 3400 rpm (specs per BMW). I don't have the torque curve on the 550i, but am pretty sure it's not flat from lower rpm's to peak.

The 535's engine is far from shabby. Again per BMW, it pulls the 535i from 0-60 only .2 seconds slower than the 550i.

Lou

irobinson
03-05-2007, 09:54 PM
I never thought there was any rational point to the 550i on American raods. It's a heavy, bulky car the suffers from an overweight engine and driveline. That said, if you want to know the answer to (b), take a 550i on the freeway at 70mph and step on it. Your question will be answered when you see how quickly it gets to 100 mph.

And beyond 100mph. Experienced this in the AZ desert. It will go from 80mph to whatever very quickly.

Having owned turbo cars...they work great in the cold! However, when it gets hot out (and it does here in So. Cal.) the turbo just does work as well, intercoolers and whatever notwithstanding.

No loss with the V8 in the heat.

Turbos will help at altitude.

royz86
03-05-2007, 11:44 PM
V8 is a V8... no matter how good a 6-cyl is.. V8 is just... V8!!!

Yes if I have the extra budget I'd go with 550i without question... but yeah, I'm with 6-cyl due to budget restriction

Pjuran
03-06-2007, 06:46 AM
Sounds different, responds differently. Interior equipment is likely different too, so factor that in. And then some people just gotta have a V8........

I mean, the conundrum could be worse. Who would pay more to buy a Lexus GS430 V8 when the GS350 V6 has more power and costs less?

Btw, there is no turbo lag, no sound of turbos spooling even on the twin-turbo N54. Have you been/driven one lately, Pjuran?


Yes I have a 2007 335i. I preferred the V8 in the 550

stevepow
03-06-2007, 06:58 AM
It always strikes me as odd when people think that more power in a car means having to have somewhere to drive it fast.

I've owned 3 M cars in the past and my 550i now - and most of my driving is around town 35 mph or so. Believe me, there is no lack of enjoyment at normal speeds. And then when you do get that opportunity to open it up - yeah! Equating power with speed seems a little naive.

So "why not a 550i" - what is the point of anything else? (other than an M), except to save money or go easier on the environment with lower gas mileage.

SteVTEC
03-06-2007, 07:37 AM
It always strikes me as odd when people think that more power in a car means having to have somewhere to drive it fast.For those of us that are more practically oriented, yes.

gr8330
03-06-2007, 12:28 PM
The 535 will be a great car. I would have looked at it also if it would have been available, but no regrets for buying the 550

jcflys
03-06-2007, 12:36 PM
"So "why not a 550i" - what is the point of anything else? (other than an M), except to save money or go easier on the environment with lower gas mileage."


LMAO! That is what I always thought before I bought my 550i. I would see a 525-530 and think oh poor bassturd couldn't afford a 550i. Things have changed now with the performance increase in the 535. I think it was BMW's way of marketing a 5er to a younger crowd. Man if I was in my late 20's the 535 would be exactly right for me.

However where I drive (major city) I prefer the smoothness of a 550i. Either car is going to be great. My C/A had told me that in the past the lower series 5 cars sold well. He said a 550i was rare to sell.

Veight
03-06-2007, 02:37 PM
smooth and consitant power, no turbo lag, no turbos whirling, runs cooler, engine is under less stress, less to fix and makes more of a statement. Just BETTER all around.

A V8 is a V8 i agree.

Ugly Bear
03-06-2007, 09:06 PM
Found it.

The 535i's twin turbo has 300 lb-ft of torque from 1400 rpm to just over 5000 rpm; it's flat throughout that range. The 550i's torque peaks at 360 lb-ft at 3400 rpm (specs per BMW). I don't have the torque curve on the 550i, but am pretty sure it's not flat from lower rpm's to peak.

The 535's engine is far from shabby. Again per BMW, it pulls the 535i from 0-60 only .2 seconds slower than the 550i.

Lou

This is all theory. You really should drive 335 and then 550 and decide if turbo is really the same as V8. I did and it is not. If turbo was that good nobody would be making V8, everybody would be manufacturing turbos. Acura RL has V6 300hp. Infiniti FX35 has V6 286hp. Infiniti FX45 has V8 315hp. Trust me - there is huge different between V8 300hp and V6 300hp, leave alone turbo. BTW, Audi was all turbo just a few years back. Now their engines almost all naturally aspirated except in lower end cars. Why is that?

BMWSTL
03-06-2007, 10:01 PM
This is all theory. You really should drive 335 and then 550 and decide if turbo is really the same as V8. I did and it is not. If turbo was that good nobody would be making V8, everybody would be manufacturing turbos. Acura RL has V6 300hp. Infiniti FX35 has V6 286hp. Infiniti FX45 has V8 315hp. Trust me - there is huge different between V8 300hp and V6 300hp, leave alone turbo. BTW, Audi was all turbo just a few years back. Now their engines almost all naturally aspirated except in lower end cars. Why is that?

The cars have their differences for sure. I've driven the 335 and was very impressed. I've been driving BMW V8's since 1994 and am very familar with how they feel. Great engines.

As an aside, we're talking gas engines. In Europe, BMW has some great turbo diesels.

I'll reserve judgment for the test drive, when the 535i hits and I can drive a 550 and a 535 back to back. The 5-er will be a different car than a 3-er with the same engine, as the car's weight, balance, feel, drive train, suspension, etc. will be different. However, the 535 appears to offer very near the level of perfomance as the 550i for $8k less (similarly equipped). I won't walk away just because "it's a turbo."

On the Audi, I don't recall when their cars all had turbos. My '98 A8, and all the A6's of recent years, were all naturally aspirated. Perhaps you could point me to some years and models. The current A4 2.0 has a turbo, and it's a great car to drive. I'd hardly call it "low end."

BMW's twin turbo is well engineered and is newer technology. It's highly regarded. BMW last had a turbo in the 745 many years back, and would not bring out a crappy, cheap turbo and diminish its marque. The mere fact that turbos are not in wide use in "higher end cars" certainly doesn't mean that turbos are bad, or the cars that have them are "lower end." By your definition, the Porsche Turbo 911 or Cayenne Turbo are "low end," and that's hardly the case. The 535i twin turbo allows a smaller engine to produce a higher level of power. You'll probably be seeing more turbos as the technology and consumer interest catches on.

Lou

shosan521
03-07-2007, 05:24 AM
You remember the c2001/2/3 s4? Bi Turbo? That engine had nothing but trouble. Then you had the 1.8T on the lower end A4. Now the S4 has a V8 and the low end A4 has a 2.0T. The 6 banger variants are all naturally aspirated. When audi was doing the 1.8, I belive the also did a 2.8...when they went to the 2.0T the moved the 6 barrel engine to a 3.0. To quote another fester...there's no replacement for displacement!

SteveinBelAir
03-07-2007, 08:14 AM
Nobody has mentioned the Vishnu PROcede. For $1300 your 535 will be kicking out 320- 330 RWHP and appropriate torque.

It will be my next car.

Robert A
03-07-2007, 11:37 AM
For those rare moments when you get to open up a powerful car, you're paying a continuous price in the form of all around poorer fuel economy and greater environmental pollution as you drive at 35mph. You also loose some of the handling responsiveness with a 400 lb heavier car.

It always strikes me as odd when people think that more power in a car means having to have somewhere to drive it fast.

I've owned 3 M cars in the past and my 550i now - and most of my driving is around town 35 mph or so. Believe me, there is no lack of enjoyment at normal speeds. And then when you do get that opportunity to open it up - yeah! Equating power with speed seems a little naive.

So "why not a 550i" - what is the point of anything else? (other than an M), except to save money or go easier on the environment with lower gas mileage.

Pjuran
03-07-2007, 12:21 PM
I don't think that most 550i drivers are concerned with the fuel consumption issue.

SSbear44
03-07-2007, 12:53 PM
If a 550 gets 19mpg, you are talking 631.5 gallons a year for 12,000 miles
If a 535 gets 21 mpg, you are talking 571.4 gallons a year for 12,000 miles

That is a 60.1 gallon difference or, at $3.79/ gallon, $227.78 per year or $18.98 per month difference.

Fuel consumption is really not an issue for an 3 extra mpg.

Although not with BMW, I have compared V8 with V6 with the same reported hp and the v6 just isn't the same. Some will agree and some won't see the need for the v8 as long as they get the same output. I guess that is why they make both cars.

Robert A
03-07-2007, 12:55 PM
True, but I leased a 6M 530i over a 550i when I could have afforded either. The 530i is light, quick and fun to drive. Although I haven't driven the 6M 550i, I have driven the Steptronic version and found it to be lacking in the handling and road feel department. I've also driven plenty of 545i's and 540i's.

I'm sure that any 550i could out race me, but neither vehicle is going to move through L.A. traffic, or get to any destination, regardless of distance, any sooner.

As an aside, the 255 hp Valvetronic 530i has a wonderful engine. It's too bad it's leaving the U.S. in 2008.


I don't think that most 550i drivers are concerned with the fuel consumption issue.

Robert A
03-07-2007, 01:03 PM
ROFL: Forget the old EPA ratings (if that's what you're drawing from). There's no way a 550i is going to get 19 mpg, except on the open road. My 530i (both my 2001 which I sold, and my current 2007) get about 16 mpg in urban stop and go traffic, and I drive moderately with a 6M.

Now, if you want to know what the REVISED EPA figures show, the 2008 550i 6M fuel economy estimate for city driving is 13mpg. The 535i figures aren't out yet, but the closest cousin, the 530i, is rated at 18mpg.

So, using your math, and assuming that EPA's new figures are realistic, for that extra 100hp (530i to 550i), the 550i will cost you an extra $971.79 per year. Plus, you've got the gas guzzler tax to pay up front, higher depreciation, more maintenance and one less HDTV.

(The math: 550i - 12k/13mpg x $3.79 = $3,498.43. 530i - 12k/19mgp x $3.79 = $2,393.68. 3,498.43 less 2,393.68 = 971.79.)


If a 550 gets 19mpg, you are talking 631.5 gallons a year for 12,000 miles
If a 535 gets 21 mpg, you are talking 571.4 gallons a year for 12,000 miles

That is a 60.1 gallon difference or, at $3.79/ gallon, $227.78 per year or $18.98 per month difference.

Fuel consumption is really not an issue for an 3 extra mpg.

Although not with BMW, I have compared V8 with V6 with the same reported hp and the v6 just isn't the same. Some will agree and some won't see the need for the v8 as long as they get the same output. I guess that is why they make both cars.

SSbear44
03-07-2007, 01:28 PM
ROFL: Forget the EPA ratings (if that's what you're drawing from). There's no way a 550i is going to get 19 mpg, except on the open road. My 530i (both my 2001 which I sold, and my current 2007) get about 16 mpg in urban stop and go traffic, and I drive moderately with a 6M.

AS long as the difference is 3 mpg, doesn't matter if you bump it up or down a few mpg, the difference (which is what was being discussed) won't change. 16 mpg sucks for a v8 let alone a v6. I just came out of a sc400 v8 and was averaging 20.5 in 50/50 driving with a heavy foot. The only v8 i have heard of performing that bad is the M45

BMWSTL
03-07-2007, 01:50 PM
Now, if you want to know what the REVISED EPA figures show, the 2008 550i 6M fuel economy estimate for city driving is 13mpg. The 535i figures aren't out yet...

Where did you find numbers for the '08 550i? The EP's mileage site http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ only has the '07's listed, and there the 550i manual is listed as 17/24 (combined 19mpg). I cannot imagine that the mileage rating (city) dropped to 13 mpg, particularly with the fuel savings that the new battery/alternator system is supposed to provide. :nono:

Lou

Robert A
03-07-2007, 01:58 PM
They're here, but I stand corrected insofar that these may be unofficial figures:

http://kiplinger.com/tools/gas_mileage/

The new battery/alternator system adds 3% (not 3 mpg) to the car's fuel efficiency, according to BMW. Valvetronic was supposed to add 15% and I haven't seem much of an improvement.

If you want to have even more fun, read this article about BMW's hydrogen car:

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17526/


Where did you find numbers for the '08 550i? The EP's mileage site http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ only has the '07's listed, and there the 550i manual is listed as 17/24 (combined 19mpg). I cannot imagine that the mileage rating (city) dropped to 13 mpg, particularly with the fuel savings that the new battery/alternator system is supposed to provide. :nono:

Lou

BMWSTL
03-07-2007, 02:18 PM
They're here, but I stand corrected insofar that these may be unofficial figures:

http://kiplinger.com/tools/gas_mileage/



Interesting stuff, thanks for the post!

Lou

SSbear44
03-07-2007, 02:44 PM
I will let you know in a month what i get, but I can promise it will be above 13. If all you do is city driving, then a v8 is not for you, hell you can get by with a v4 if all you do is traffic stop and go.

Robert A
03-07-2007, 04:03 PM
The estimated highway EPA for the 550i is 21mpg, the 530i (which is being discontinued) is 27mpg (and that's about what I get). That's a continuous 6mpg drag when you're NOT accelerating -- you're paying for it all the time, every mile.

Now, I have no doubt that 100 hp really comes into play on the highway, but where in the real world, even under ideal circumstances, will you use that power? So you're in New Mexico and you're going 85 mph and want to pass a car. How much power do you need to get the job done? And then what will you do, so down and do it again?

My semi-fuel inefficient 530i reportedly tops out at 155 mph, same as your 550i. You can't go from point A to point B any quicker with a 550i. It'll probably take you longer because I'll be passing you at the gas station.

I will let you know in a month what i get, but I can promise it will be above 13. If all you do is city driving, then a v8 is not for you, hell you can get by with a v4 if all you do is traffic stop and go.

SSbear44
03-07-2007, 04:37 PM
Then you got the right car for you, and i got the right car for me, happy driving

edit to add: My gas price was also wrong, I bumped it an extra $1 per gallon

Robert A
03-07-2007, 04:39 PM
No, we're here to debate and disagree. That's what makes this blog fun -- trying to prove each other wrong. It's like arguing Nikon vs Canon or PC vs. Mac.

Fortunately we agree on the make on model series.

Then you got the right car for you, and i got the right car for me, happy driving

Robert A
03-07-2007, 04:41 PM
I thought $3.79 was a bit high. Here in L.A., we're seeing a lot of $3.05 - $3.35 premium prices again.

Then you got the right car for you, and i got the right car for me, happy driving

edit to add: My gas price was also wrong, I bumped it an extra $1 per gallon

SSbear44
03-07-2007, 04:43 PM
On LI, NY, we have crept back up to $2.79 premium. I should know, I have filled up 3 times in the last two days. Once for the car i was selling, once for my fathers jeep when i borrowed it, then i gave him back the jeep and took his LS430 on empty and filled that. My 550 better come filled on Saturday!!

m123xyz
03-07-2007, 04:52 PM
didn't mean to start such a thread. it proves one thing to me...

bmw is going to bump the hp in the 550 soon.

Robert A
03-07-2007, 05:04 PM
I think I might be older than the mean age of this group so I recall the days when 0-60 in 9 seconds was quite adequate and respectable. My father's old MBZ 280SE 4.5 which, at the time, had an insane amount of power (save the 6.9) probably had less than 200 hp.

Today, folks with E39 M5s have 400hp, can't figure out what do with it, and still want more power now that the 550i is nipping at their heals.

My question is, what is enough power? It doesn't make a car better, just faster and heavier.

didn't mean to start such a thread. it proves one thing to me...

bmw is going to bump the hp in the 550 soon.

SteVTEC
03-07-2007, 07:04 PM
FYI, you can look at old vs new ratings directly here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

Personally I think anybody who can truly afford to buy (purchase or lease) one of these cars can also afford the gas for whatever engine they choose and that's not the issue. I just don't like being wasteful and it's a matter of principle. I live in an area where it'll be difficult if not impossible to ever really enjoy the added capabilities of say a 550i, do not have some gigantic ego to satisfy, do not need to be able to "beat" everybody on the road, don't have clients to drive around and impress, and don't like wasting gas needlessly as I'm stuck in traffic going the same exact speed as everybody else. And I also don't care if some snob in a 550 is going to think I'm a "poor bassturd" :D that couldn't afford a 550, because I'll be laughing at that poor bassturd for all the money they wasted to have soooooo much more power when they can't use anymore than I've got anyways, lol. If we both manage to break free at the same time, all the extra power means is that they'll get to the next backup a few seconds before I do and then I'll be right back on their tail again. oooh aaah. big deal. I'd rather take the difference both in the price of the car and the difference in fuel savings and dump it into my daughter's college fund, or other investments. But that's just me.

Buy what suits you and enjoy the ride. :)

I think I might be older than the mean age of this group so I recall the days when 0-60 in 9 seconds was quite adequate and respectable. My father's old MBZ 280SE 4.5 which, at the time, had an insane amount of power (save the 6.9) probably had less than 200 hp.

Today, folks with E39 M5s have 400hp, can't figure out what do with it, and still want more power now that the 550i is nipping at their heals.

My question is, what is enough power? It doesn't make a car better, just faster and heavier.I'm just a hair under 30 and agree with you completely. I think it's more personality related, although age could be a contributing factor. Some people are just never satisfied no matter how much they've got, and always want more and more. And I'll tell you what. Auto companies are more than happy to take these people's money from them. Cars are just like weddings. You can spend as much or as little on them as you want, and it only really matters to you and the person you're marrying as far as what's good enough.

My current car will 0-60 in the high-6/low-7 range, and the 528i auto will do just that. I've never had any complaints at all about the performance of my current car, so do I really need more? No. I've had plenty of other complaints (choppy unrefined ride, horribly loud interior, loose steering, crappy brakes, etc) but never about straight line performance. Most people with my car seem to upgrade to the Infiniti G35, but what the hell am I going to do with 300hp? I have no idea, and that car sucks down a ton of gas too. Nearly as much as a BMW V8 in fact while also being slower!

As stated above, just buy what suits you and enjoy the ride. I just think it's funny when people get in each other's faces or mock them for having made a different choice when everybody is different and has different priorities and therefore make different decisions. DUH! The E60 is an awesome car whether you're buying a 520d (which I saw last weekend, with Diplomat plates), or an M5. :)

SSbear44
03-07-2007, 07:37 PM
Very interesting the insulting nature with which a lot of people talk against those who choose to drive the 550i, and yes, i recognize it does flow the other way too.

You do not know why i chose the 550, you do not know who i am, what i do, what my ideals are, but a lot in this thread seem to be real comfortable making those assumptions in a very insulting manner, the previous poster especially. I really enjoy his hypocrisy of his referring to 550 owners as "some snob in a 550 " while insulting the 550 owner in the previous sentence. You say you "it's funny when people get in each other's faces or mock them for having made a different choice", but that is exactly what you did in your whole post.

I joined this thread to merely state through example that the mpg difference was not that great. When things started to spiral, I stopped and wished a happy drive. You want people to be respectful of your choice, try being respectful of theirs first. You can discuss the benefits and detriments of the cars without inslting the drivers

ok, rant off

gr8330
03-07-2007, 08:09 PM
Very interesting the insulting nature with which a lot of people talk against those who choose to drive the 550i, and yes, i recognize it does flow the other way too.

You do not know why i chose the 550, you do not know who i am, what i do, what my ideals are, but a lot in this thread seem to be real comfortable making those assumptions in a very insulting manner, the previous poster especially. I really enjoy his hypocrisy of his referring to 550 owners as "some snob in a 550 " while insulting the 550 owner in the previous sentence. You say you "it's funny when people get in each other's faces or mock them for having made a different choice", but that is exactly what you did in your whole post.

I joined this thread to merely state through example that the mpg difference was not that great. When things started to spiral, I stopped and wished a happy drive. You want people to be respectful of your choice, try being respectful of theirs first. You can discuss the benefits and detriments of the cars without inslting the drivers

ok, rant off


Well put! Owning a 550i and an M3 I guess I'm one of the rich bast%#$@& he is referring to. In MHO rich is having a good life filled with family and friends, the material things do not mean anything. I paid my dues and now I want to enjoy what time I have left. Oh by the way my wife drives a Prius.

m123xyz
03-07-2007, 08:12 PM
have to say down here in swfl the best use of hp is making sure there's enough to floor it and get out of the way when old ladies in giant SUV's cross over out of the shopping malls and into three lanes of traffic. or when people won't let you merge (e.g. out of my own driveway and come at you doing 60+)

...brakes really important too.

Richard in NC
03-07-2007, 08:22 PM
I will let you know in a month what i get, but I can promise it will be above 13. If all you do is city driving, then a v8 is not for you, hell you can get by with a v4 if all you do is traffic stop and go.

My 650i gets 25mpg on a 75mph cruise and about 18 mpg pure city (and Charlotte has plenty of traffic). I don't see how the EPA could rate it at 13. My mixed driving is about 20.5 mpg (with an average mph of < 40). My previous car, the E39 M5 got about 19mpg average.

I like the BMW 6 but have always prefered the performance characteristics of a V8.

M550
03-07-2007, 09:37 PM
If all you do is city driving, then a v8 is not for you, hell you can get by with a v4 if all you do is traffic stop and go.

Nothing beats a motor (or non-motor) bike.

If fuel consumption is a major concern, why don't we head to Toyota dealership?:rofl:

SteVTEC
03-08-2007, 06:19 AM
Very interesting the insulting nature with which a lot of people talk against those who choose to drive the 550i, and yes, i recognize it does flow the other way too.

You do not know why i chose the 550, you do not know who i am, what i do, what my ideals are, but a lot in this thread seem to be real comfortable making those assumptions in a very insulting manner, the previous poster especially. I really enjoy his hypocrisy of his referring to 550 owners as "some snob in a 550 " while insulting the 550 owner in the previous sentence. You say you "it's funny when people get in each other's faces or mock them for having made a different choice", but that is exactly what you did in your whole post.My "snob" comment was directed solely at the person who made the 'poor bastard' comment towards anybody who chooses to drive less than the V8. If you're not one that's going to look down on others for merely having made another choice than you, then I'm not going to think you're a snob. And I meant that comment in jest anyways, hence the ":D". If you recognize that it flows both ways, then what's the problem?

You want people to be respectful of your choice, try being respectful of theirs first. You can discuss the benefits and detriments of the cars without inslting the driversFunny how you didn't make this comment towards the other fellow, which my comment was in response to.


Well put! Owning a 550i and an M3 I guess I'm one of the rich bast%#$@& he is referring to.:loco: You have no clue what I even said, and now you're twisting my words and context around. Do you look down on those who would choose to drive a 525/528/530 vs your 550 and automatically assume that they're "poor bastards" and that the only reason they're driving a "lesser" car is because they couldn't afford a 550i? If so you're a) wrong, and b) a snob. If not, just carry on and enjoy the ride. :thumbup:


If fuel consumption is a major concern, why don't we head to Toyota dealership? :rofl: No need to because the N52 motors are just as efficient if not more so than anything from Toyota in a similar size in addition to riding better, handling better, looking better, being better designed, and far more fun to drive. I already have a Toyota and it's bland and boring as hell. My wife can drive that. No thanks for me. :)

Pjuran
03-08-2007, 06:27 AM
Man!:tsk:

Anyhow....Back to the fuel issue...I picked up my 550 last week. Currently have about 350 miles on it.

I drive about 36 miles per day round trip up and down I-95 thru the Bronx and up to Westchester averaging about 35-40mph. Lots of stop and go with open stretches here and there.

I have been averaging approx 15.5 mph. This is still a very new engine that has not been broken in yet. So I'm figuring after the engine settles in I'll get about 17 mpg in mixed driving. I think that is about right.

For some contrast...my 2003 A4 3.0 Quattro with 50,000 miles has only been averaging around 18 mpg.

We'll see.

stevepow
03-08-2007, 07:59 AM
For those rare moments when you get to open up a powerful car, you're paying a continuous price in the form of all around poorer fuel economy and greater environmental pollution as you drive at 35mph. You also loose some of the handling responsiveness with a 400 lb heavier car.

I'm used to the weight :) and I drive less that 10K miles a year - more like 7K or less. If everyone did that, then polution would be way down. Relatively speaking, I get good fuel economy ;). In fact I don't remember when I bought gas last time or where or how much it cost - filling up once a month will do that to you. :yikes:

At any rate, the point of a 550i is for customers like me who really like that type car. I just thought the original question was equally as absurd as my rhetorical question of why something less - everyone has their own unique car goals and needs, thus different models and options...and makes if need be.

chonko
03-08-2007, 08:54 AM
The performance similarities are probably only temporary.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a nice increase in HP for the 550 soon (maybe up to 400hp).
535=300hp
550=400hp
M5=500hp

Also, your point is a good one. Many people had a hard time justifying a 550 over a 530 in the first place. The 535 makes an even stronger case for the less expensive, more fuel efficient 6 cylinder variant.

I am not sure if we will see the HP increase with the E60 550i 4.8 litre V8 because there is a new engine for the 550i as well.
The engine that is being tested on the E72 X6 and the F01 750i;the N64 engine (4.4 litre biturbo V8) will be in the F10 550i
The N64 engine will definitely make it to the X6 first.
In MY2010 F10, the engine lineups for US will be as follows:

F10 528i with the N52 engine with 230+ HP and Torque(NA engine)
F10 535 with up-tuned N54 engine with 300+ HP and Torque (Biturbo 3.0 litre I6 engine)
F10 550i with N64 engine with 420+ HP and Torque( Biturbo 4.4 litre V8 engine)
F10 M5 with S85 engine with 550+ HP, and 420+ Torque (5.5 litre V10 engine)
This what I have been told.
Both the 528i an 535i will receive power increase, with the 528 receiving about 10 HP and Torque and the 535i about 20 HP and Torque.
As you everyone knows, there is a HP war between the big German automakers and even though BMW doesn't like it, they are forced to respond to Audi and MB.

SteVTEC
03-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Why does SteVTEC have a chip on his sholder?

Man!:tsk:You go right ahead and think whatever you want. :thumbup:

gr8330
03-08-2007, 10:15 AM
I wasn't trying to twist your words, I guess I just misunderstood. I'm fortunate enough to be able to enjoy both engines, but I'm partial to the sound of the BMW 6. Thank you, I will carry on and enjoy the ride :thumbup:

stevepow
03-08-2007, 01:12 PM
FYI, you can look at old vs new ratings directly here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp

Personally I think anybody who can truly afford to buy (purchase or lease) one of these cars can also afford the gas for whatever engine they choose and that's not the issue. I just don't like being wasteful and it's a matter of principle. I live in an area where it'll be difficult if not impossible to ever really enjoy the added capabilities of say a 550i, do not have some gigantic ego to satisfy, do not need to be able to "beat" everybody on the road, don't have clients to drive around and impress, and don't like wasting gas needlessly as I'm stuck in traffic going the same exact speed as everybody else. And I also don't care if some snob in a 550 is going to think I'm a "poor bassturd" :D that couldn't afford a 550, because I'll be laughing at that poor bassturd for all the money they wasted to have soooooo much more power when they can't use anymore than I've got anyways, lol. If we both manage to break free at the same time, all the extra power means is that they'll get to the next backup a few seconds before I do and then I'll be right back on their tail again. oooh aaah. big deal. I'd rather take the difference both in the price of the car and the difference in fuel savings and dump it into my daughter's college fund, or other investments. But that's just me.

Buy what suits you and enjoy the ride. :)

I'm just a hair under 30 and agree with you completely. I think it's more personality related, although age could be a contributing factor. Some people are just never satisfied no matter how much they've got, and always want more and more. ...

It all sounds like some weird rationalization or sour grapes to me. I wonder what the guy who struggles to buy a Camry or whatever thinks? In my mind BMW is a luxury car in any model - better gas mileage, practicality, decent quality, and a much lower "impress people" profile are abundant in other makes - and if economy (saving for kids college) is the goal - really - I mean come on, so why even get a BMW at all? Who really has to have one? You can sit in traffic with adequate power and really low gas consumption for a hell of a lot less money...and still get decent seats and a ok stereo to help pass the time in reasonable comfort.

I just think it's funny when people get in each other's faces or mock them for having made a different choice when everybody is different and has different priorities and therefore make different decisions. DUH! The E60 is an awesome car whether you're buying a 520d (which I saw last weekend, with Diplomat plates), or an M5. :)

Huh? Is this intentional irony or did someone else write that 1st paragraph above? Read that again - pretty harsh.

I can easily imagine why someone would think these cars are excessive and unnecessary - because they are - even a 520 - but I guarantee that almost anyone who whips that out on this forum to put someone down is drowning in some sort of material hypocrisy.

jacksonhunter31
03-08-2007, 03:48 PM
Outside of this (and a couple other) forums nobody knows or cares about the relative merits of a 550 or a 530...most people see BMW and have an opinion based on that nameplate alone..they could care less about the esoteric (to them) engine differences. It seems a little silly that people who want to pay for the privilege of driving a V8 should have to defend their choice--it's their money and their preference. It seems equally silly that someone who opts for a base-level, non-optioned, 525 should feel defensive about their choice. Different kind of great cars--that's all...

By the way, after I take delivery of my new 535 my garage will host (I have kids who drive btw) a 2008 535, a 2003 Audi A4 Quattro 3.0, A 2002 Hyundai Elantra GT, and a 1994 Grand Cherokee. By the way, my Wife's favorite car--the Hyundai, which has cost us nothing since purchase...

AzNMpower32
03-08-2007, 05:26 PM
The best solution to all this silly fuel economy discussion versus performance (which has gotten a tad out of hand), is crystal clear and obvious.




Go buy a 535d :D

Mac Daddy
03-08-2007, 06:48 PM
Wow. Go away for a couple of days and come back to this... :eek:

Do all of you guys realize how absurd this is? You are trying to rationalize a 530i over a 550i? (Or an M5?) They both REEK of excess and luxury to just about everyone else in the world. The difference in MPG is :jack: to any of us driving these cars.

I want a 550i because I like the power (and maybe the prestige) of it. An M5 is not worth the extra cost to me just... because it isn't. Could I afford it? Yes, though I would certainly feel it. It is just not worth it to me. A 530 is a great car, and of course I would be happy driving it, but FOR ME, the extra $$ for the 550 is worth it.

I know someone who is REALLY rich and he eschews cars that draw attention to himself. Drives a '99 S320...

I am with stevepow -- drive what you want! We are all different!

SSbear44
03-20-2007, 06:56 AM
I will let you know in a month what i get, but I can promise it will be above 13. If all you do is city driving, then a v8 is not for you, hell you can get by with a v4 if all you do is traffic stop and go.

Well, I have had the car a little over a week and already have 600 miles on the car. I am still in the break in period, so i am a little lighter on the peddle and am doing about 60-40 highway to local driving, but have been caught in some nasty traffic duirng my highway driving. Right now, i am averaging 20.4 mpg. From what i have read, somewhere around the 1500 mile mark, i should start to see improvement from that mark. Take it for what it is worth, but that is markedly better than 13 mpg. As good as a v-6??? Never, but i never expected it to be. It is actually right where i thought it would be and a smidge better than i was getting with my 99 SC400.

Happy driving :D

epoints
03-21-2007, 10:21 AM
20 mpg? If you are not getting 12 mpg, you are not driving it right... :-)

I went through the 550 vs. 530 decision and though power of 550 would be awesome to have. Having the car for 6 months now... 550 is just way too much power for local driving in LA, but I did beat everyone to the gas stations.

Have you seen the traffic in LA? I would opt for V6 next time...

Robert A
03-21-2007, 11:57 AM
My thinking exactly. I opted for the 530i, and the only place I ever get to use its power is when entering an open freeway, which is rare.

20 mpg? If you are not getting 12 mpg, you are not driving it right... :-)

I went through the 550 vs. 530 decision and though power of 550 would be awesome to have. Having the car for 6 months now... 550 is just way too much power for local driving in LA, but I did beat everyone to the gas stations.

Have you seen the traffic in LA? I would opt for V6 next time...

Robert A
03-21-2007, 12:11 PM
I have a client with an 8-figure net worth who is married, and has only one car between the two of them -- a Toyota Camry. He wouldn't touch a BMW for exactly the same reason, although he enjoys being picked up in mine. He also lives in the Valley (for those in L.A.) and walks to work, by choice.

Wow. Go away for a couple of days and come back to this... :eek:

Do all of you guys realize how absurd this is? You are trying to rationalize a 530i over a 550i? (Or an M5?) They both REEK of excess and luxury to just about everyone else in the world. The difference in MPG is :jack: to any of us driving these cars.

I want a 550i because I like the power (and maybe the prestige) of it. An M5 is not worth the extra cost to me just... because it isn't. Could I afford it? Yes, though I would certainly feel it. It is just not worth it to me. A 530 is a great car, and of course I would be happy driving it, but FOR ME, the extra $$ for the 550 is worth it.

I know someone who is REALLY rich and he eschews cars that draw attention to himself. Drives a '99 S320...

I am with stevepow -- drive what you want! We are all different!

bimmerturn
03-21-2007, 12:20 PM
I am averaging 23MPG doing 50/50 type of driving, the best choice i have done. Also, when I am not using the power I love the fact it is so easily accessable. :)

bimmerguy288
03-21-2007, 01:20 PM
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120061

Sorry to open the old wound. Does the turbo engine's overheating issue concern those who are thinking of getting the 535i? I know some would say "what? overheating? not here.". But there are such instances and we should not pretend it never happened.

Robert A
03-21-2007, 01:27 PM
I suspect that's why BMW moved into that direction -- especially for the U.S. where diesels aren't presently offered. If you look at their product lineup and press releases for Europe, you'll see that the 535i is not being offered there (they have diesels for this purpose).

I am averaging 23MPG doing 50/50 type of driving, the best choice i have done. Also, when I am not using the power I love the fact it is so easily accessable. :)

Ugly Bear
03-21-2007, 03:42 PM
F10 535 with up-tuned N54 engine with 300+ HP and Torque (Biturbo 3.0 litre I6 engine)
F10 550i with N64 engine with 420+ HP and Torque( Biturbo 4.4 litre V8 engine)


OK, this means I should buy my uncoming 2007 530xi instead of leasing since there is nothing in F10 line I would want to spend money on. BMW is going nuts with turbo. I would prefer BMW to give up and make NA V6 instead.

Richard in NC
03-21-2007, 04:17 PM
OK, this means I should buy my uncoming 2007 530xi instead of leasing since there is nothing in F10 line I would want to spend money on. BMW is going nuts with turbo. I would prefer BMW to give up and make NA V6 instead.

WHY????

The inline 6 is a better design than the V6. Most manufactures only use the V6 because of packaging, especially for FWD. BMW gets more power per litre out of the NA I6 than other manufacturers get out of V6s. If you just compare the 3.0 255hp with a Nissan 3.5 300hp, the BMW makes more hp/litre. If you then look at the 3.2 333hp M3/Roadster there is no comparison. Only the much smaller 2.7 NSX motor is close. I guess BMW elected to go turbocharging instead of a big I6 but don't forget that BMW had a very good 3.8 litre 360hp NA I6 motor in the early '90s M5.

Ugly Bear
03-21-2007, 04:51 PM
WHY????

The inline 6 is a better design than the V6. Most manufactures only use the V6 because of packaging, especially for FWD. BMW gets more power per litre out of the NA I6 than other manufacturers get out of V6s. If you just compare the 3.0 255hp with a Nissan 3.5 300hp, the BMW makes more hp/litre. If you then look at the 3.2 333hp M3/Roadster there is no comparison. Only the much smaller 2.7 NSX motor is close. I guess BMW elected to go turbocharging instead of a big I6 but don't forget that BMW had a very good 3.8 litre 360hp NA I6 motor in the early '90s M5.

I do NOT compare paper specs and numbers. I don't give squat about magazine reviews and fancy charts they publish. I don't like how turbo feels with steptronic - jerk,jerk, downshift, JERK. I test drove 335 twice and then canceled my order for 08 535xi and reordered 07 530xi. Next time I am not buying BMW then unless they somehow magically figure out how to provide turbo boost at 800 rpm or how to mitigate that jerk caused by transition from NA to turbo.

At least Audi stopped messing with turbo.

chonko
03-22-2007, 10:25 AM
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120061

Sorry to open the old wound. Does the turbo engine's overheating issue concern those who are thinking of getting the 535i? I know some would say "what? overheating? not here.". But there are such instances and we should not pretend it never happened.

I would in all honesty take that with a grain of salt.
Turbo are always hot, and the ones in the engine can withstand 1000+ degrees. Limping after 4 laps- sounds like the old story of an Audi guy with the 335i, it limped after 4 laps with the temperature over 250 degrees.
Granted the temperature sensor was wrongly placed, and it is a mistake to have there in the first place.

chonko
03-22-2007, 10:27 AM
OK, this means I should buy my uncoming 2007 530xi instead of leasing since there is nothing in F10 line I would want to spend money on. BMW is going nuts with turbo. I would prefer BMW to give up and make NA V6 instead.

There is a still a 528i with the N52 engine. The power wil be pegged between 240-250 Hp.

chonko
03-22-2007, 10:36 AM
I do NOT compare paper specs and numbers. I don't give squat about magazine reviews and fancy charts they publish. I don't like how turbo feels with steptronic - jerk,jerk, downshift, JERK. I test drove 335 twice and then canceled my order for 08 535xi and reordered 07 530xi. Next time I am not buying BMW then unless they somehow magically figure out how to provide turbo boost at 800 rpm or how to mitigate that jerk caused by transition from NA to turbo.

At least Audi stopped messing with turbo.

The N64 engine will have a wider bandwidth than the N54 engine. With the N54 engine, you have a flat bandwidth from 1300-5000 rpm, the N64 will open the bandwidth in both end.

Could it be that the jerks are associated with the gear changing- I remember when I drove my car, I jerked for about 2 weeks before getting the smooth feel. I test drove the 335i as well and noticed the same jerks. After a few minutes I was able to control the clutch better and off went my jerks as well.
To be honest each new car takes a bit of getting used to, and perhaps you should give a try with the gear changing. I remember a friend of mine that had the same problem with his M5, he finally figured out to work the gas pedal during shifts.

Ugly Bear
03-22-2007, 12:04 PM
There is a still a 528i with the N52 engine. The power wil be pegged between 240-250 Hp.

And why exactly would I want to settle with 240hp three years from now when a) I can have 255hp today that will still be around in 2010 and b) there are other brands that surely willbe able to furnish me in 2010 with AWD car with 300hp+ engine and no turbo crap.

Ugly Bear
03-22-2007, 12:05 PM
To be honest each new car takes a bit of getting used to, and perhaps you should give a try with the gear changing. I remember a friend of mine that had the same problem with his M5, he finally figured out to work the gas pedal during shifts.

Thanks, but I am done driving manual.

mullman
03-23-2007, 05:45 AM
The best solution to all this silly fuel economy discussion versus performance (which has gotten a tad out of hand), is crystal clear and obvious.
Go buy a 535d :D

+1 I would LOVE a 535d M Technic which all of Europe gets.

Unfortunately any BMW diesels that come to the USA, I'm affraid, will be frumpy, non-sporty cars ala the E class diesel or Jetta TDI.
I sure hope I am wrong...