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View Full Version : 2008 530i - here's one reason we can't get this model in the US


chrischeung
03-19-2007, 03:14 PM
Sulfur content in our fuels:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=37121&vf=2

mapezzul
03-19-2007, 03:46 PM
This is old news... look this up in the E90 forum. Our sulfur content and the lean burn has been addressed, thus the 335 and all the new Audi's. I went into some detail on it last year.
Best of luck!:thumbup:

Ugly Bear
03-19-2007, 10:29 PM
But we are still not getting Eurospec 530i.

niktee
03-22-2007, 03:14 PM
Please don't get me started. The new "N53" updated normally aspirated 3 litre is my personal favorite in the entire BMW line-up. And BMW's number one market won't be getting it. One question. Why?

Ugly Bear
03-22-2007, 04:10 PM
Please don't get me started. The new "N53" updated normally aspirated 3 litre is my personal favorite in the entire BMW line-up. And BMW's number one market won't be getting it. One question. Why?

Absolutely agree. However, BMWNA thinks that all US consumer wants is a HORSEPOWER.

ks-man
03-22-2007, 04:32 PM
Shouldn't you all wait to see how the 535 drives before trashing it so. BMW has produced phenomenal cars in the past and I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. If the twin turbo on the 535 impacts the feel of the car I will be right alongside you complaining about it (my order of a 535 has it specifically written that it is refundable if I don't like the feel of the car). For the time being though I believe that BMW knows what they are doing and the new engine will only improve how the car drives.

Rather than complain just wait a few weeks and make a rational call on it.

Ugly Bear
03-22-2007, 09:10 PM
Rather than complain just wait a few weeks and make a rational call on it.

How is it going to be different from 335?

ks-man
03-22-2007, 09:57 PM
How can you ask that question? They are two completely different cars. They just have the same engine. A lot more determines how a car runs then just the engine. Would you ask how one brother would be different from another when they have the same parents?

It sounds to me like you are trying to justify your decision to yourself now. Just wait for the car to come out and give it a drive and then see what you think. Or don't, and be happy with your decision as you got an awesome car. But to go on all the boards and tell people that the 535 isn't going to be good based on no factual information and just an assumption that it will be the same as the 335 is just wrong. People will drive the car and decide for themselves. If you test drive the car and maintain your belief, than tell people who ask the question of which is better your oppinion.

Ugly Bear
03-22-2007, 10:26 PM
How can you ask that question? They are two completely different cars. They just have the same engine.

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with the car. I have problem with the engine and I don't see how engine behavior will change - it will still have same turbo behavior. There is nothing to justify - I haven't yet picked up the car and I surely will try 535. So far, however, I don't see what exactly going to change TT engine behavior.

niktee
03-24-2007, 01:32 AM
Look, I have no problem with the 535. It will be a phenomenal car. I just want the 530i. The same choice the rest of the world has. I've had two 530i's, a 330i, and I'm happy with the cars. I'm just lamenting the fact that they've taken away my choice for no apparent reason.

Ugly Bear
03-24-2007, 07:49 AM
Look, I have no problem with the 535. It will be a phenomenal car. I just want the 530i. The same choice the rest of the world has. I've had two 530i's, a 330i, and I'm happy with the cars. I'm just lamenting the fact that they've taken away my choice for no apparent reason.

All BMWNA had to do was to keep 530 (why lame 528 instead?), bump 535 to 320hp and 550 to 400hp. Now everyone could have what they wanted and BMW could make more money without pissing people off. Instead, BMWNA now offers a weak car (528), a car that not everyone likes (535) and great, but expensive (and RWD only) car (550).

There is nothing wrong with BMW AG. It is BMW NA again. "No, you can't have it" seems to be their permanent company slogan.

SteVTEC
03-24-2007, 11:03 AM
Shouldn't you all wait to see how the 535 drives before trashing it so.
Nobody here is "trashing" the 535. Some of us just want the 530i, and I for one thought that the 530i provided the perfect balance between power, efficiency, and reliability. And then it's not so overly powerful that you can't find any place to enjoy it and give the engine a good flogging once in awhile. For decades BMW has been known for their sweet and powerful naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines, except now that choice is gone from the 5er lineup, because....

BMWNA thinks that all US consumer wants is a HORSEPOWER.
Exactly. In the US market, suddenly 6-cylinder cars with less than 300hp don't sell in the luxury market anymore. Nissan/Infiniti just announced the 2008 G37 coupe. A 3.7L V6 with 330hp. As if the outgoing 280hp model wasn't already quick enough.

Look, I have no problem with the 535. It will be a phenomenal car. I just want the 530i. The same choice the rest of the world has.Same here.


All BMWNA had to do was to keep 530 (why lame 528 instead?), bump 535 to 320hp and 550 to 400hp. Now everyone could have what they wanted and BMW could make more money without pissing people off. Instead, BMWNA now offers a weak car (528), a car that not everyone likes (535) and great, but expensive (and RWD only) car (550).I don't think the 528i is lame since it's nearly as quick as a 530i for about the same price as last year's 525i. For an entry level engine, it's damn good. Certainly better than the 184hp M54B25 when the E60 first came out in 2004. I don't think that would even do better than 0-60 in 8 seconds with the auto, but an '08 528iA will do it in 7.1 which isn't fast, but no slouch. The manual will do it in 6.5s which is only one tenth off of the 530i (6.4), but manual is a no go for the wife. :rolleyes:

I think the real reason they had to ditch it for now is because they'd either have to cut the price on the 530i significantly to get it near the 525i price point, except that then they'd mess up resale values on existing BMWs and piss off people that way. The 528i is a compromise between that, and plus I think the 530i will be back anyways for the next-gen F10 in the US market.

I'll still probably order a 528i despite this, because the wife and I love the E60 design as a whole that much that I can look past not being especially pleased with the revised engine lineup. I also tend to drive cars like they were meant to be driven, so me in a 300hp/300tq car around where we live is just not a good idea. :eeps: I don't need tons of power to have fun driving, or a bigger number on my decklid to feel special. I just want something that's "quick enough" and fun to drive and I think the 528i will still do a fine job.

Only a test drive will tell, though. :)

BmW745On19's
03-24-2007, 11:05 AM
Who cares? Get a 535i, its a lot faster and the same price basically.

Ugly Bear
03-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Who cares? Get a 535i, its a lot faster and the same price basically.

Did you read the thread? We want NA engine.

Ugly Bear
03-24-2007, 12:21 PM
I don't think the 528i is lame

528i 6MT is fine. 528i Step is almost fine. 528xi Step is not.

BmW745On19's
03-24-2007, 12:32 PM
Did you read the thread? We want NA engine.
Why? Twin Turbos are better.

ks-man
03-24-2007, 03:12 PM
The problem was that BMW was charging a significant premium for less power. It was very easy for other dealers to trash the BMW and point to the HP and the price.

Lexus GS - 303HP
Mercedes E350 - 268HP
Infinity M35 - 275HP
BMW 530 - 255HP

The twin turbo was lauded in reviews of the 335 so it was easy for BMW to put it in the 5 series, bump the HP up and keep the premium.

Ugly Bear, you say the 535 is a car that not everybody likes but as I've said before. This is in theory, until people test drive it you are really saying the 535 is a car that not everybody thinks they are going to like. BMW is obviously willing to bet that people will like it and are willing to risk losing the business to one of their competitors if people don't. Again let's just wait for the car to come out and speak about how it actually drives rather than speculating how it will drive.

Ugly Bear
03-24-2007, 03:32 PM
BMW is obviously willing to bet that people will like it and are willing to risk losing the business to one of their competitors if people don't.

No, they bet that people simply won't have a choice. You want BMW - get what we think you should have. Hasn't this always been BMW NA approach? US have never been getting as wide selection of engines as Europe. As I said - they could keep 530 (Eurospec 272hp), bump TT to 320-330 hp or so and proceed with beating the competition. Now, how 300hp is going to beat Infiniti when upcoming 3.7L will have 330hp?

Again - I have nothing against 535. But I do want to have a choice. You buy what you like, I buy what I like. What is wrong with providing more variety like they do in other places in the world? More variety makes customers more satisfied and happier.

Ugly Bear
03-24-2007, 03:32 PM
Why? Twin Turbos are better.

No they are not.

BmW745On19's
03-24-2007, 03:39 PM
Damnit, move to Europe, buy a 535i, or don't buy a BMW at all then! Jeeze! It's as simple as that!

I mean, if a company you buy from doesn't have the product you like anymore and replaces it with a better one for the same price, what do you do?

ks-man
03-24-2007, 03:58 PM
Damnit, move to Europe, buy a 535i, or don't buy a BMW at all then! Jeeze! It's as simple as that!

I mean, if a company you buy from doesn't have the product you like anymore and replaces it with a better one for the same price, what do you do?

It's easier for people to bitch and moan rather than to make a switch. If car companies (or technology in general) didn't try new things where would we be. I for one disagree with the "if it isn't broke, don't fix it attitude." You always need to move forward or else you'll soon be passed. There are two or three people on these boards who scream about BMW going to Twin Turbo. Shame on us for fueling the fire for trying to rationalize with them.

I'm with you though. If these guys hate where BMW is going so badly, buy a Lexus or Infiniti. They won't do it though, they'll just be miserable and try to bring others down with them. Me, I'll wait for the 535 to come out and see what I think of it. If it is bad, I won't buy it and I'll either get a 530, 528 or some other make. However I won't predetermine that I'm going to hate it and cry for the next few months or years. I'll leave that to the other people on these boards.

niktee
03-25-2007, 05:02 AM
Damnit, move to Europe, buy a 535i, or don't buy a BMW at all then! Jeeze! It's as simple as that!

I mean, if a company you buy from doesn't have the product you like anymore and replaces it with a better one for the same price, what do you do?

That's exactly why I have already started to strongly research and consider Audi(my lease ends in December). It's a damn shame, really, because nothing has the total package of a BMW. They(BMW NA) are forcing me to "stray" from the family. Look, one guy switching brands probably means nothing to BMW, but to me it is significant as hell.

Ugly Bear
03-25-2007, 09:28 AM
That's exactly why I have already started to strongly research and consider Audi(my lease ends in December). It's a damn shame, really, because nothing has the total package of a BMW. They(BMW NA) are forcing me to "stray" from the family. Look, one guy switching brands probably means nothing to BMW, but to me it is significant as hell.

Same here. They lost me for 4 years after they pulled M3 sedan and left only M3 coupe and 330 sedan. As a matter of fact, while my E60 is in transit I am still considering A6 since I can get it below invoice. Its a pity since BMW is a better driving machine.

Besides, bitching about products is normal in capitalism :thumbup: In Soviet Union you would get Lada - one model is good for everyone. AND NO BITCHING OR ELSE! :violent:

AzNMpower32
03-25-2007, 11:36 AM
Eh, another thread that relates to how BMW restricts what we get in the US.

I think BMW should revise their motto: "A Company of Ideas, but not for everyone"

Here's an idea BMW.............how about giving us more choices like you do in other markets? :dunno:

SteVTEC
03-25-2007, 11:37 AM
The problem was that BMW was charging a significant premium for less power. It was very easy for other dealers to trash the BMW and point to the HP and the price.

Lexus GS - 303HP
Mercedes E350 - 268HP
Infinity M35 - 275HP
BMW 530 - 255HP
Lexus GS: Their "L-finesse" design theme is a bunch of el-crapola to me. The rear of the passenger compartment cuts down so low that it's impossible for me to get my 6'3" frame in and out of the car without literally squatting. It's stupid. Now imagine trying to get young kids or a babyseat out of there. notgonnahappen.com

Mercedes E350: Cars are trouble-plagued with loads of problems and it's not hard at all to find lemon lawed vehicles. Like the car otherwise, great dealer support, but don't like the cars enough to put up with all the potential hassle. After they ditch Chrysler (they're putting them up for sale and are already having shareholders vote on changing their name back to Daimler-Benz), I'll give them 5 years to refocus and get their ish back together before seriously considering one of their cars.

Infiniti M35: Ugly as hell, as heavy as a 550i, and the V6 drinks gas like a V8. In fact the mileage is so bad that it barely manages to escape the gas guzzler tax in M35x form, and it's just a V6! Really not a bad car though, very reliable, but I just can't get over the looks and horrible fuel mileage.

Any other suggestions? :)


It's easier for people to bitch and moan rather than to make a switch. If car companies (or technology in general) didn't try new things where would we be. I for one disagree with the "if it isn't broke, don't fix it attitude." You always need to move forward or else you'll soon be passed. There are two or three people on these boards who scream about BMW going to Twin Turbo. Shame on us for fueling the fire for trying to rationalize with them.The twin turbo is great, for those that want more and more power. But I don't want more power and think excessively powered vehicles takes away from the driving experience instead of adding to it in a car like this. Sure, give me tons of power in an M3. The last time I was in Europe I had a rental car with about half the power that my Nissan has, and had about twice as much fun driving it. That taught me that there's far more to driving enjoyment than power alone, so I'm sad to see BMW "caving". But it's what sells and they can't allow themselves to be completely eclipsed by all of their competitors.

I knew BMW would be coming out with a turboed Inline-6 years ago when most people on these forums thought the "335" was a 3.5L engine and called people stupid for thinking otherwise. (And where are those people now? :D) But why does that mean that their other truly excellent naturally aspirated engines which people also love have to disappear? The Valvetronic N52 and direct injected N53 engines are exceptional in 255 and 272hp trim. Why can we now only get the "de-tuned" engine here as a 528i? I know the answer to that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. The Valvetronic engines are so advanced that it sent even Honda reeling. Honda is waiting for BMW's patents to expire before coming out with their own valvetronic-like engine.


I'm with you though. If these guys hate where BMW is going so badly, buy a Lexus or Infiniti. They won't do it though, they'll just be miserable and try to bring others down with them. Me, I'll wait for the 535 to come out and see what I think of it. If it is bad, I won't buy it and I'll either get a 530, 528 or some other make. However I won't predetermine that I'm going to hate it and cry for the next few months or years. I'll leave that to the other people on these boards.You keep framing this from a "we hate the 535i" point of view which is nonsense. I think it's great but just prefer naturally aspirated power. Why can't BMW have an up-tuned naturally aspirated Inline-6 alongside a twin-turbo unit besides marketing or product/pricing segmentation BS? It's not like 255hp/220tq (N52) or even 272hp/230tq (N53) gets close to 300hp/300tq N54 performance due to the huge torque deficit anyways. Have the turbo engine for the power hungry folks, and then the up-tuned naturally aspirated engine for people that just like NA power better.

Anyways, I just took a peek over at the E90 forums and there are already a number of complaints about failing fuel pumps being replaced with identical failing fuel pumps, bad injectors, slipping transmissions, and overheating due to not all models having an external oil cooler. And this is in a short time period with a relatively small group of people. What complaints or issues have there been on the naturally aspirated engines? Almost none. That's another reason I prefer naturally aspirated engines because they're inherently much simpler, more reliable, and more elegant IMHO.

More power to BMW for something that will compete with the Japanese V6 engines, but I still want my up-tuned N52/N53 naturally aspirated Inline-6 from BMW and could care less if it doesn't have 300hp. So I'm going to keep whining until they bring the 530i back. :p

SteVTEC
03-25-2007, 11:47 AM
Besides, bitching about products is normal in capitalism :thumbup: In Soviet Union you would get Lada - one model is good for everyone. AND NO BITCHING OR ELSE! :violent::rofl: :thumbup:

The 335/535 fans just don't like "non-believers" taking away from the glory of the twin-turbo by pointing out the flaws. :D But big whoop, every car or engine has flaws. The "flaw" of the naturally aspirated engines is that they're low on torque, but they're simple and reliable. The "flaw" of the TT engines is that they're way more trouble prone because they're considerably more complex, but have the torque. It's like chocolate or vanilla. Neither is better so just pick what you like best.

krash
03-25-2007, 12:42 PM
Lexus GS: Their "L-finesse" design theme is a bunch of el-crapola to me. The rear of the passenger compartment cuts down so low that it's impossible for me to get my 6'3" frame in and out of the car without literally squatting. It's stupid. Now imagine trying to get young kids or a babyseat out of there. notgonnahappen.com

Mercedes E350: Cars are trouble-plagued with loads of problems and it's not hard at all to find lemon lawed vehicles. Like the car otherwise, great dealer support, but don't like the cars enough to put up with all the potential hassle. After they ditch Chrysler (they're putting them up for sale and are already having shareholders vote on changing their name back to Daimler-Benz), I'll give them 5 years to refocus and get their ish back together before seriously considering one of their cars.

Infiniti M35: Ugly as hell, as heavy as a 550i, and the V6 drinks gas like a V8. In fact the mileage is so bad that it barely manages to escape the gas guzzler tax in M35x form, and it's just a V6! Really not a bad car though, very reliable, but I just can't get over the looks and horrible fuel mileage.

Any other suggestions? :)


The twin turbo is great, for those that want more and more power. But I don't want more power and think excessively powered vehicles takes away from the driving experience instead of adding to it in a car like this. Sure, give me tons of power in an M3. The last time I was in Europe I had a rental car with about half the power that my Nissan has, and had about twice as much fun driving it. That taught me that there's far more to driving enjoyment than power alone, so I'm sad to see BMW "caving". But it's what sells and they can't allow themselves to be completely eclipsed by all of their competitors.

I knew BMW would be coming out with a turboed Inline-6 years ago when most people on these forums thought the "335" was a 3.5L engine and called people stupid for thinking otherwise. (And where are those people now? :D) But why does that mean that their other truly excellent naturally aspirated engines which people also love have to disappear? The Valvetronic N52 and direct injected N53 engines are exceptional in 255 and 272hp trim. Why can we now only get the "de-tuned" engine here as a 528i? I know the answer to that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. The Valvetronic engines are so advanced that it sent even Honda reeling. Honda is waiting for BMW's patents to expire before coming out with their own valvetronic-like engine.


You keep framing this from a "we hate the 535i" point of view which is nonsense. I think it's great but just prefer naturally aspirated power. Why can't BMW have an up-tuned naturally aspirated Inline-6 alongside a twin-turbo unit besides marketing or product/pricing segmentation BS? It's not like 255hp/220tq (N52) or even 272hp/230tq (N53) gets close to 300hp/300tq N54 performance due to the huge torque deficit anyways. Have the turbo engine for the power hungry folks, and then the up-tuned naturally aspirated engine for people that just like NA power better.

Anyways, I just took a peek over at the E90 forums and there are already a number of complaints about failing fuel pumps being replaced with identical failing fuel pumps, bad injectors, slipping transmissions, and overheating due to not all models having an external oil cooler. And this is in a short time period with a relatively small group of people. What complaints or issues have there been on the naturally aspirated engines? Almost none. That's another reason I prefer naturally aspirated engines because they're inherently much simpler, more reliable, and more elegant IMHO.

More power to BMW for something that will compete with the Japanese V6 engines, but I still want my up-tuned N52/N53 naturally aspirated Inline-6 from BMW and could care less if it doesn't have 300hp. So I'm going to keep whining until they bring the 530i back. :p


:soapbox:

I still don't get why they didn't keep the 530 when putting out the 535.

530
535
550

To me, what is the difference between that lineup and the following lineup they had last year?

525
530
550

If I were the Noth American GM for BMW, I'd bag the 528 and stick with the 530.

SteVTEC
03-25-2007, 05:20 PM
:soapbox:

I still don't get why they didn't keep the 530 when putting out the 535.

528 - $44,300 (no charge Steptronic)
530 - ??????
535 - $49,400 (no charge Steptronic)
550 - $58,500 (no charge Steptronic)

To me, what is the difference between that lineup and the following lineup they had last year?

525 - $43,500
530 - $47,500
550 - $58,500

If I were the Noth American GM for BMW, I'd bag the 528 and stick with the 530.In short, because it'd send existing 530i resale values into the tank, which would mess up BMW NA's profitability since they make a good chunk of those profits from used/CPO cars. It's all about BMW NA's bottom line, and finding the best way out of their over-inflated pricing on the 5er.

I added in base MSRPs above, along with the 528i. I think the 530i was already overpriced for the US market. The 535i flips the tables on the competition in that now BMW is the top dog for the first time in a long time in the 6-cylinder segment while offering highly competitive pricing. Before it was the opposite in that they were down on power and still charging a premium. They knew that couldn't last, especially with all the Japanese 3.5L machines.

They could have kept the 530i in the US market, but only if it wasn't so overpriced to begin with. There's only one way for it to go, which is down. It would royally mess up resale values and BMW NA's marketing strategy if you could get an 08 530i for say $45k with a Step when last year it was $49k. What about all the CPO 06/07 530i's coming back in? They're worth a lot less now. Nobody in their right mind would pay in the $40's for a CPO 06/07 530i if you can get a brand spankin new one for practically the same price. So instead of getting in the 40's for those (base), now they're in the high-30's. Not good for BMW NA. I thought I read something somewhere that BMW NA actually makes more on turning around CPO cars than they do on new car sales. Those are subsidized via discounted lease rates to keep cars going out the door and to help offset currency losses from the weak dollar. Otherwise a lot fewer people would be buying these cars and sales would crash.

So a 528i makes perfect sense. It's more performance than last year's 525i for less money (with the Step), and it's "not quite a 530i" so it won't screw up existing 530i resale values which is good for BMW NA's bottom line. And that's the REAL answer to the question. BMW NA's bottom line.

ks-man
03-25-2007, 09:32 PM
Lexus GS: T=

You keep framing this from a "we hate the 535i" point of view which is nonsense. I think it's great but just prefer naturally aspirated power. :p

I guess what I just don't understand is that if you all love the 530 so much and want the NA engine, why not just get a 2007 530. Obviously BMW made a change for a reason. They didn't want to keep putting out the exact same car year after year with virtually no changes. If that's what people want wouldn't it make more sense to save the money and get a good deal on a 2007? The 528 is only 25HP short of the 530 so for people who say that power isn't important there is still an option.

But back to my original point, the only thing I see that the 2008 offers over the 2007 (assuming they kept a 2008 530) is the iPod adapter. That's important sure but not enough for BMW to offer it. If they did many people would be complaining that they offered the exact same model and slapped a new label on it and expect people to pay up. If I don't like the twin turbo, I'll be looking at 2007 530s. There certainly are enough around and you can get a great deal on one.

SteVTEC
03-26-2007, 05:48 AM
It's really just a matter of timing. Our schedule right now is a mess, but my wife and I would rather wait until we can actually do an ED and take advantage of the ED pricing even if it means getting a 528i rather than scooping up a 530i now without the ED experience or pricing. I'm not particular enough about needing power or a bigger number on my decklid to do that, and am more or less ok with a 528i with nearly 530i performance at outgoing 525i prices. If a 528i turns out to be not quite what I'm looking for, then I'll pickup a CPO 06/07 530i in the fall. I have a feeling that there's going to be lots of early trade-ins and lease swaps on these particular 530's from people getting 535i's, which ought to make getting a good deal on a low mileage 530i pretty easy.

So either way I'll be getting a great car. I'd still rather have the "option" of getting a NEW 530i on an ED this fall or later, but that option was eliminated. Oh well. The real question is if my piece of crap Nissan will last until we can manage to do an ED for a 5er. :p If not, that'll completely scuttle the ED plans and I'll be back to the retail lot anyways.

It's complicated. :D