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View Full Version : Pricing is not negotiable..... yet......


solidbmw
03-20-2007, 02:15 PM
Dealer told me that I can order the car now(528i) but the price is something you can't negotiate yet until the car arrives and see how it fairs on the market. Is this how it is?

I'm planning on dealing w/ internet sales managers rather than salespeople. Anyone have done this kind of purchase? Any tips and advice and hows the experience?

Many thanks in advance.

solidbmw

chrischeung
03-20-2007, 02:35 PM
BS - pricing is out now. There is no reason why dealers should not give you a hard number.

BMWSTL
03-20-2007, 03:26 PM
Dealer told me that I can order the car now(528i) but the price is something you can't negotiate yet until the car arrives and see how it fairs on the market. Is this how it is?

I'm planning on dealing w/ internet sales managers rather than salespeople. Anyone have done this kind of purchase? Any tips and advice and hows the experience?

Many thanks in advance.

solidbmw

I agree with chrischeung.

My advice: go elsewhere where you can negotiate pricing up front if you keep getting that song and dance sales pitch.

"No pricing yet, let's wait and see what the market is like when it comes in" is a sales technique to get you to commit to the order. If you give in and order a car without firm pricing, you're psychologically committed to buy the car at dealer favorable pricing whether you realize it or not. When it comes in, you are at the mercy of the dealer. Imagine, after weeks of anticipation, your brand new shiny car just sitting there waiting for you to drive it off the lot. Could you walk away, or will it gnaw at you knowing that it could be yours "for only $XXXX more"? The salesman is betting on the latter. If you do walk, he'll just turn to the next guy and use his "it's a perfect car with all the great options already in stock, no waiting, and worth the premium" routine. In the meantime, you'll start the process all over again, have to wait again or take what you can find in stock or at the port on a swap with another dealer, and negotiate a firm price (i.e., do what you should have done when you order).

The only advantage you may have in a "wait until later on price" sales situation is if you ordered an unusual color or option combination. If the dealer doesn't hit your price, he could be stuck with it for a long time if you walk away. But most dealers know that, and if you order something out of the ordinary may insist upon a firm order or some walk-away amount (larger deposit).

Just make sure, if you do place an open pricing order (or any order), is that you can walk and get 100***37; of your deposit back.

Good luck!

Lou

Starab
03-20-2007, 03:31 PM
Dealer told me that I can order the car now(528i) but the price is something you can't negotiate yet until the car arrives and see how it fairs on the market. Is this how it is?

I'm planning on dealing w/ internet sales managers rather than salespeople. Anyone have done this kind of purchase? Any tips and advice and hows the experience?

Many thanks in advance.

solidbmw


Prices are out (ED-USD: Invoice and msrp)
They are negotiable, Look the car at your dealership and decide with options
Call tim gadomski/eric Maniya at schaumburg-IL(847-843-4000) patrick bmw
They will ship your car after negotiated price in writing

krash
03-20-2007, 08:00 PM
I also spoke to a dealer today. My story is a little different.

I asked for the best deal on a 335xi lease.

They said that even though the 335xi is in production now, they won't know what the lease rates are until next month.

MF & residuals are posted in Bimmerfest on the "ask a dealer" forum.

:dunno:
It seems unlikely that a dealer would respond this way if lease rates were really "officially" released. Especially since they know I am a serious buyer with a great credit score, and lots of $$$$$ (I'm a VP for a Financial Services company).

Could it be that they don't want to scare me off and they'll be better next month????

mason
03-21-2007, 07:30 AM
Tell your dealer to shove the 2007 price list up to his you know what, I suppose, at that time you can wait for him.

ks-man
03-21-2007, 09:00 AM
Many dealers still don't realize that the consumer has a lot more information through the internet than they did in year's past. My guess is the 335 dealer doesn't have any more allocated for this month and is trying to get you to hold off until next month since it would be advantageous for him to lease one from his own stock rather than having to trade around for another one. If you tell him that you are aware of the MF and residual rates from BMWNA he would have a hard time arguing (fax him a print out from Bimmerfest if he still doesn't believe you).

The dealer for the 528 is also just plain lying. All pricing information is out and you can completely negotiate now. I already negotiated a price and ordered a 535xi and it was a good deal less than sticker price. He is trying to lock you into a car and then negotiate (or not negotiate) later where he feels he will be in a better position. Tell him you've spoken with other dealers and they have all been willing to negotiate now.

sundstrom
03-21-2007, 10:18 AM
you can negotiate price on the 2008 5 series, but you can't get an accurate lease payment yet as THOSE numbers are not out. I just finished going through that and because all signs point to the 2008 being released at base rates (.00320 money factor and 60***37; residual on a 36mo lease) you're looking well into the 850-925/month range on a 535xi with most options (MSRP around $57k).

i decided on a 2 year deal on a exec demo loaded 2007 550i for low 800's with no money down figuring that i'll let wait for the great deals on this refresh in 2 years or the brand new body style.

Starab
03-21-2007, 10:29 AM
Many dealers still don't realize that the consumer has a lot more information through the internet than they did in year's past. My guess is the 335 dealer doesn't have any more allocated for this month and is trying to get you to hold off until next month since it would be advantageous for him to lease one from his own stock rather than having to trade around for another one. If you tell him that you are aware of the MF and residual rates from BMWNA he would have a hard time arguing (fax him a print out from Bimmerfest if he still doesn't believe you).

The dealer for the 528 is also just plain lying. All pricing information is out and you can completely negotiate now. I already negotiated a price and ordered a 535xi and it was a good deal less than sticker price. He is trying to lock you into a car and then negotiate (or not negotiate) later where he feels he will be in a better position. Tell him you've spoken with other dealers and they have all been willing to negotiate now.

How much under the msrp? please, please.

ks-man
03-21-2007, 10:44 AM
$2500

mason
03-21-2007, 10:55 AM
You can find on BMW website stating the ED is roughly 7***37; lower than US MSRP. And ED MSRP is a few thousand dollars over ED invoice. You can immediately get a ballpark from there. These dealers are either BS or lazy.

fastdunn
03-21-2007, 12:36 PM
all signs point to the 2008 being released at base rates (.00320 money factor and 60% residual on a 36mo lease)

What are those signs if I may ask ?

ansetou
03-21-2007, 01:27 PM
$2500

$2500 off MSRP? That's pretty good given that the car is not even in the show room yet. I did a little calculation, it's about invoice + $1630 w/o any paid option. the best deal i found around NYC at the end of 2006 for a 07 530xi was about invoice+$1000.

this is really cheering me up. I was kinda disappointed yesterday when a dealer contacted me for the 08 535xi and told me the price is "ticket". i told him i'll wait til the car is in his showroom. when do you guys think that will be? early april?

Do you think it's a good idea to negotiate now when the car is not in the showroom yet and they probably didn't get a feel of how hot it is or to wait until the general public are well aware of the price info through sites like edmund? it's going to be my first bimmer and i'm not sure how the BMW dealerships work. please help out.

i'm trying to do a ED and hoping for May or latest June in Europe. I am so eager to get it ordered now.

chrischeung
03-21-2007, 02:24 PM
i'm trying to do a ED and hoping for May or latest June in Europe. I am so eager to get it ordered now.

If you want May or June delivery, you need to call your CA/dealer ASAP. The lead time for ED can be 2-3 months, generally, and on hot cars, even a little longer.

ks-man
03-21-2007, 08:37 PM
$2500 off MSRP? That's pretty good given that the car is not even in the show room yet. I did a little calculation, it's about invoice + $1630 w/o any paid option. the best deal i found around NYC at the end of 2006 for a 07 530xi was about invoice+$1000.

this is really cheering me up. I was kinda disappointed yesterday when a dealer contacted me for the 08 535xi and told me the price is "ticket". i told him i'll wait til the car is in his showroom. when do you guys think that will be? early april?

Do you think it's a good idea to negotiate now when the car is not in the showroom yet and they probably didn't get a feel of how hot it is or to wait until the general public are well aware of the price info through sites like edmund? it's going to be my first bimmer and i'm not sure how the BMW dealerships work. please help out.

i'm trying to do a ED and hoping for May or latest June in Europe. I am so eager to get it ordered now.

It was about invoice + $3000. I did get a bunch of options, but I believe mark up on the base car is about $4500 (going from memory here).

Mac Daddy
03-21-2007, 08:44 PM
Many dealers still don't realize that the consumer has a lot more information through the internet than they did in year's past. My guess is the 335 dealer doesn't have any more allocated for this month and is trying to get you to hold off until next month since it would be advantageous for him to lease one from his own stock rather than having to trade around for another one. If you tell him that you are aware of the MF and residual rates from BMWNA he would have a hard time arguing (fax him a print out from Bimmerfest if he still doesn't believe you).

The dealer for the 528 is also just plain lying. All pricing information is out and you can completely negotiate now. I already negotiated a price and ordered a 535xi and it was a good deal less than sticker price. He is trying to lock you into a car and then negotiate (or not negotiate) later where he feels he will be in a better position. Tell him you've spoken with other dealers and they have all been willing to negotiate now.

I agree 100%. Most of us who frequent this board are very well informed -- much more so than the vast majority of folks that dealers come across. Until they know you are well-informed, they will assume otherwise especially if it is to their advantage. It is your job to let them know. :)

I can't believe, however, that anyone would expect you to order a car without knowing the price first, or at least without negotiating "invoice + xxxx" or something similar. That would make me mad enough not to use that dealer at all. When would the game-playing stop?

schley
03-21-2007, 10:50 PM
you can negotiate price on the 2008 5 series, but you can't get an accurate lease payment yet as THOSE numbers are not out. I just finished going through that and because all signs point to the 2008 being released at base rates (.00320 money factor and 60% residual on a 36mo lease) you're looking well into the 850-925/month range on a 535xi with most options (MSRP around $57k).

i decided on a 2 year deal on a exec demo loaded 2007 550i for low 800's with no money down figuring that i'll let wait for the great deals on this refresh in 2 years or the brand new body style.

I doubt the 5 series will have base rates at release.

sundstrom
03-22-2007, 08:23 AM
I doubt the 5 series will have base rates at release.


i thought the same but had several dealers in several states give me the same story. a couple thought that it might get around .00220 but it still wasn't as good a deal as the 2007 550i demo that i'm getting instead.

keep in mind that i was used to paying about $650/month for my 2004 530i so when i'm told $875 for a 535xi on initial release ($57k MSRP), i was a bit shocked. that's why $840/month for a $73k car made more sense to me.

whatever rate the car is released with, i think everyone will agree that there will be much better deals in 6 months

ansetou
03-22-2007, 09:50 AM
If you want May or June delivery, you need to call your CA/dealer ASAP. The lead time for ED can be 2-3 months, generally, and on hot cars, even a little longer.

chris,

i noticed that you have a 07 525i on order for ED. I am just curious how would that be possible since, to my knowledge, that the 525 is being replaced by 528 and manufacturing should have stopped already. that was the reason my dealer turned me down back in dec 07 when I wanted a 07 530xi ED in May 07. was he lying to me or did I miss something?

citygirl
03-22-2007, 01:04 PM
Dealer told me that I can order the car now(528i) but the price is something you can't negotiate yet until the car arrives and see how it fairs on the market. Is this how it is?

I'm planning on dealing w/ internet sales managers rather than salespeople. Anyone have done this kind of purchase? Any tips and advice and hows the experience?

Many thanks in advance.

solidbmw

I ordered a 2008 535xiT on 3/5 and had the final pricing before ordering. The car is produced already and should be here in 3 weeks. Can't believe your dealer doesn't have pricing when mine had it at the end of February.

chrischeung
03-22-2007, 03:18 PM
chris,

i noticed that you have a 07 525i on order for ED. I am just curious how would that be possible since, to my knowledge, that the 525 is being replaced by 528 and manufacturing should have stopped already. that was the reason my dealer turned me down back in dec 07 when I wanted a 07 530xi ED in May 07. was he lying to me or did I miss something?


You can't get a 2007 525i or 530i for ED anymore unless you have a confirmed order and pickup date. You may get lucky with one off the lot.

Here is my timeline:

12/21/06 order and deposit placed, financing and pricing confirmed
1/10/07 order reviewed and confirmed, production number received
2/9/07 in production
2/13/07 in the body shop
2/15/07 in the paint shop
2/16/07 being assembled
2/22/07 production completed
2/22/07 vehicle being transported to the port
3/26/07 pickup in Freimann

tarheel15
03-22-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't think the question is about pricing. That is openly available to all and yes the consumer has much more inside information and leverage than ever before. I think the real issue is that this dealer is trying to assess the market demand for the car and not willing to negotiate yet. BMW dealers don't have an unlimited supply of cars so they have to try to get as much as they can for each one or risk the health of the dealership. In a hot market they can command and get msrp. For example, in Orlando, the shelf life for a 5 series is about 72 hours. With that kind of demand why would any business take less than the market will bear. So I think the real issue is how far are you willing to go to find a dealer who's a little hungrier?

Mac Daddy
03-22-2007, 07:00 PM
I don't think the question is about pricing. That is openly available to all and yes the consumer has much more inside information and leverage than ever before. I think the real issue is that this dealer is trying to assess the market demand for the car and not willing to negotiate yet. BMW dealers don't have an unlimited supply of cars so they have to try to get as much as they can for each one or risk the health of the dealership. In a hot market they can command and get msrp. For example, in Orlando, the shelf life for a 5 series is about 72 hours. With that kind of demand why would any business take less than the market will bear. So I think the real issue is how far are you willing to go to find a dealer who's a little hungrier?

Fascinating, but irrelevant to the potential buyer who, cash in hand, wants to order a car. If the dealer doesn't want to discount MSRP, they should just say that! Telling the guy to order the car anyway (and we'll talk about price later) is just plain BS, as chrischeung said.

I would find another dealer.

fastdunn
03-22-2007, 08:11 PM
Just to make sure... "ordering" is different from "reserving", right ?

ChrisDressler
04-12-2007, 05:53 PM
I understood the OP like "tarheel15" (I think)... It sounded to me like the OP did get the price quoted during ordering (which would have been MSRP) for the car and options, but the dealer didn't want to start negotiating on the MSRP until after the car arrived.

I might have misunderstood though, it could be that they wouldn't tell the OP anything about pricing--but that seems weird. When my order was written up, I had a final order printed out that showed all costs for options and the car itself.

Fatboy04
04-12-2007, 06:10 PM
2008 535i
$2500 off sticker
.0018 Money Factor
62% residual value
12K
36 months
inceptions only
existing BMW owners
Lock in lease rate for 90 days....I am going to wait to the end of the month to make my decision. So I can squeeze more:mad:

raleighbimmer
04-24-2007, 05:29 PM
I got some great advice about this right here on Bimmerfest.

1) don't work down from the MSRP, work up from the dealer's wholesale price (for the model and the options that you want). You can find that for 2008's right now in several threads on this site.

2) allow the poor sales rep to make a few $$s and add that to the wholesale price. I was feeling pretty generous with $1000, and might get some cat calls for that - but what the heck - I closed the deal within less then 24 hours with no haggling.

3) pick a couple of dealers in reasonably close range and FAX an offer to them, attn sales department, with the specific details explicitly listed (model, color, options), and your offer. Now just wait for a call back.

4) at least one of the dealers will probably turn your offer down. if both do, expand your search area a little bit and fax to a couple more dealers. Eventually you will one will accept and you can gloat just a little over the other dealers that lost the sale when they call back again, which they might do to try and sell you at a higher price.

5) EURO DELIVERY can make this even easier for a dealer to accept, since ED cars do not come out of their allocation, so it is almost a free-be for them, and is a couple thousand less - the only drawback is that you need some patience - a couple of months when you total the before and after, but the result is very satisfying, and IMHO very worth it.

JTJ
05-01-2007, 01:25 PM
I have to agree with MacDaddy & Chrischeung above, that's total BS! I was just able to order a 535i and the dealer was more than willing to work on the price. We agreed on $2300 under MSRP. You should seriously think about taking your business elsewhere!

solidbmw
05-01-2007, 05:04 PM
Thanks for all your responces.

I ended doing an ED purchase and the savings I got is the free trip to Europe w/ my wife. I'm so excited to drive the car where it was born and see the rest of Europe.:)

Mac Daddy
05-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Thanks for all your responces.

I ended doing an ED purchase and the savings I got is the free trip to Europe w/ my wife. I'm so excited to drive the car where it was born and see the rest of Europe.:)

Congrats! Best of luck... :thumbup: