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View Full Version : 5 series demographics; can you really afford it?


wagonman
03-25-2007, 09:00 PM
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?
i say minimum is 100k per year. and/or a net worth excluding home of at least three times the purchase price. that means 150k minimum invested assets and/or annual income of 100k. i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.

jammat
03-25-2007, 09:11 PM
This is an issue for someone buying new 5 series.

tommydogsdad
03-25-2007, 09:18 PM
Waggonman- I think there are a number of other factors to consider. Does the car buyer have kids? Are the kids in college? Where does the buyer live? $60k is a very low income for someone with two kids who lives in the Greater LA area, but for a single guy in a smaller city, it might be enough money to easily make the car payment and a mortgage payment. You can't simply go by income/net worth alone.

wagonman
03-25-2007, 09:23 PM
Waggonman- I think there are a number of other factors to consider. Does the car buyer have kids? Are the kids in college? Where does the buyer live? $60k is a very low income for someone with two kids who lives in the Greater LA area, but for a single guy in a smaller city, it might be enough money to easily make the car payment and a mortgage payment. You can't simply go by income/net worth alone.

i agree, it does depend upon what someones overall overhead is. it is true a single person living in an inexpensive city could afford a 5 series with a lower salary. i stand corrected.
i am more directing this thread at those fakers who love to presnt themselves to the world as "movers and shakers" when behind the scenes it is a house of cards.

ks-man
03-25-2007, 09:39 PM
i am more directing this thread at those fakers who love to presnt themselves to the world as "movers and shakers" when behind the scenes it is a house of cards.

Wow you're bitter. What difference does it make how someone is able to make their payments? If somebody wants to drive a 5 series and is willing to make other sacrifices to achieve it, that is their right. If someone else wants to max out credit so they can drive one, well the world has a funny way of catching up to them. And if they can stay ahead of it all, more power to them for beating the system.

It shouldn't be for you though to tell people what to buy or lease. If you get jealous or upset at seeing someone driving a car and think they probably can't afford it, then there are some other problems you need to be addressing.

Be happy for what you have and be happy for others for what they have. You'll enjoy life a lot more that way.

Ugly Bear
03-25-2007, 10:34 PM
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?
i say minimum is 100k per year. and/or a net worth excluding home of at least three times the purchase price. that means 150k minimum invested assets and/or annual income of 100k. i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.

Not sure, too many variables. First, one can lease 525 for $439 (see BMW Lease offers (http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/leaseoffers)). Second, it is possible to lease or buy CPO car and it won't cost $50K. Some states don't have sales tax (like yours) or state income tax (like WA). Property taxes vary as do prices of homes. 100K/year? Subtracting taxes, 401k how much does one have left? Not sure, I am not a CPA, but maybe $60K, ie $5K per month? $500/mo lease is only 10%, seems very reasonable. I guess someone with $80K can do it too.

Now, it seems you are making certain assumptions. It seems like you imply a married person with non-working spouse and kids. What if she is also working? Maybe they don't have kids? Dunno, too many variables to take into account.

wagonman
03-25-2007, 10:42 PM
Not sure, too many variables. First, one can lease 525 for $439 (see BMW Lease offers (http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/leaseoffers)). Second, it is possible to lease or buy CPO car and it won't cost $50K. Some states don't have sales tax (like yours) or state income tax (like WA). Property taxes vary as do prices of homes. 100K/year? Subtracting taxes, 401k how much does one have left? Not sure, I am not a CPA, but maybe $60K, ie $5K per month? $500/mo lease is only 10%, seems very reasonable. I guess someone with $80K can do it too.

Now, it seems you are making certain assumptions. It seems like you imply a married person with non-working spouse and kids. What if she is also working? Maybe they don't have kids? Dunno, too many variables to take into account.

yes, there are many variables. and yes, whatever it takes if it makes you happy and you are driving it. good luck to you.

jcflys
03-25-2007, 10:56 PM
100k maybe for a 525. 125k for a 535. 150k for a 550i. These numbers would provide you with a nice cushion provided you keep other overhead costs down. It is very easy for someone to earn 100k and have absolutely no money left at the end of the month. It is very sad, but I have seen it happen.

My personal requirements are no more than one car payment, no credit card payments ever and no other personal debts except a mortgage!!!! I hate debt as much as possible and will only consider it for a house or a small amount for a car.

Yes there are tons of folks that drive BMW's and they are dirt poor just playing a shell game. The best part about owning a BMW is when you have no financial stress and get to drive an awesome car. It just feels different.

Mac Daddy
03-26-2007, 05:42 AM
wagonman: what exactly is a "faker"? Someone who is not driving the car, but wants you to think he is?

This is a loaded question. It is all a matter of priorities, as others have pointed out. Assume $1000 out-of-pocket per month for a 550 lease, which before tax is less than $20k per year. Many people can swing that if it is really important to them -- it just depends on what you want to give up. ;)

It is very easy for someone to earn 100k and have absolutely no money left at the end of the month. It is very sad, but I have seen it happen.

My personal requirements are no more than one car payment, no credit card payments ever and no other personal debts except a mortgage!!!! I hate debt as much as possible and will only consider it for a house or a small amount for a car.

+1

Any debt that is not tax-advantaged is a no-no to me, though I am about to violate that when I lease my 550!

100k per year is EASILY spent in the right circumstances. I had a partner a couple of years ago who was spending that every year, after tax, on education expenses for his 3 kids. :yikes: He had 2 kids in private colleges and 1 in a private secondary school. I might be there before long myself. :cry:

01Byte
03-26-2007, 05:47 AM
Wow you're bitter. What difference does it make how someone is able to make their payments? If somebody wants to drive a 5 series and is willing to make other sacrifices to achieve it, that is their right. If someone else wants to max out credit so they can drive one, well the world has a funny way of catching up to them. And if they can stay ahead of it all, more power to them for beating the system.

It shouldn't be for you though to tell people what to buy or lease. If you get jealous or upset at seeing someone driving a car and think they probably can't afford it, then there are some other problems you need to be addressing.

Be happy for what you have and be happy for others for what they have. You'll enjoy life a lot more that way.

:stupid:

vern
03-26-2007, 05:59 AM
Wow you're bitter. What difference does it make how someone is able to make their payments? If somebody wants to drive a 5 series and is willing to make other sacrifices to achieve it, that is their right. If someone else wants to max out credit so they can drive one, well the world has a funny way of catching up to them. And if they can stay ahead of it all, more power to them for beating the system.

It shouldn't be for you though to tell people what to buy or lease. If you get jealous or upset at seeing someone driving a car and think they probably can't afford it, then there are some other problems you need to be addressing.

Be happy for what you have and be happy for others for what they have. You'll enjoy life a lot more that way.
+ 1 right on
chees
vern

krash
03-26-2007, 11:27 AM
i am more directing this thread at those fakers who love to presnt themselves to the world as "movers and shakers" when behind the scenes it is a house of cards.

Actually, even though this has a nasty tone to it, it wouldn't necessarily be an inappropriate thing to post on the 3 Series sub-forum.
:D
There are lots of kids either in or right out of college that buy/lease a BMW 328/335...

But seriously, I think people on the 5 Series forum are generally more financially established.

Personally speaking, my wife and I won't buy/lease a car unless it has minimal to zero impact on our budget. I won't go into our finances and what someone should or should not make, but we will never buy/lease a car if it is a stretch.

It would be great to drive around in an M5...But, it costs (gulp) $82,000. A 535 is a relative bargain and fits our criteria.

We have 2 teenagers, and everyone knows how expensive college is. Plus, we like to do a lot of other things with our money: buy nice things, go on vacations, make home improvements, etc. Most importantly, we need to save and invest for college and retirement.

SSbear44
03-26-2007, 11:31 AM
Boy, after reading many posts, it sure seems like someone has a big old chip on thier shoulder. The only person I care about being able to afford their 500 series car is me. As for the rest, who are you to set arbitrary perameters of priority for what and where a person spends their money? There are too many variables to set an absolute on who can "afford" anything.

My suggestion, stop worrying about what other people are doing and thinking, you will be much happier in the long run

BEAZY19
03-26-2007, 11:38 AM
thats crazy making 150k for a 550i.... than how much for a 750 ...

ks-man
03-26-2007, 11:41 AM
Boy, after reading many posts, it sure seems like someone has a big old chip on thier shoulder. The only person I care about being able to afford their 500 series car is me. As for the rest, who are you to set arbitrary perameters of priority for what and where a person spends their money? There are too many variables to set an absolute on who can "afford" anything.

My suggestion, stop worrying about what other people are doing and thinking, you will be much happier in the long run

Exactly...some people would want to spend 15k a year on a nice vacation, others may want to join a golf club, another may want a 5 series, while others may want to save it in case times aren't as sunny in the future.

Who's to say what is the right way to spend that money...only the person that is looking to spend it.

bimmerguy288
03-26-2007, 11:46 AM
Actually, even though this has a nasty tone to it, it wouldn't necessarily be an inappropriate thing to post on the 3 Series sub-forum.
:D
There are lots of kids either in or right out of college that buy/lease a BMW 328/335...

But seriously, I think people on the 5 Series forum are generally more financially established.



+1. There are certainly a lot of things to learn from a 3 series sub forum. A lot of them really know the technical stuff. But there are also a lot of" my d$ck is bigger than your d$ck, how many chicks have I attracted cuz I drive a BMW, this guy ate my dust at the light, if you don't drive a stick, you are an idiot" type of things. Sometimes it's quite entertaining.

I have to agree, in general, the 5er owners are more mature (should I say "older"?) and in better financial shape.

chiefwej
03-26-2007, 11:55 AM
I drive a 5 series and now have an income of only about 65k. No problem. But then, I am retired, with no mortgage or other debt of any kind, and my children are out of college. I bought my car for cash, two years old for about half the new price. If I had wanted it, I could have easily purchased an m5.

Generalizations of any kind seldom work.

shabbaman
03-26-2007, 12:02 PM
i am more directing this thread at those fakers who love to presnt themselves to the world as "movers and shakers" when behind the scenes it is a house of cards.

Dude, you need to relax and not take things people say over the Internet so personally. :tsk:

jcflys
03-26-2007, 12:05 PM
Beazy19 honestly it is not crazy if you can analyze the financial impact a 70k purchase can make on your income. I am speaking strictly of purchasing the vehicle and not leasing. If you make less than 150k and are buying a 70k vehicle you are going to feel the pain even if you keep other overhead down. The typical payment would be 850 to 1000 dollars a month with a small down payment. Also remember that many people (not me) have at least two car payments a month.

I see you are in the Baltimore area as well. If you are providing for yourself then you know the extreme high cost of living in this area.

Cars are an emotional thing. Cars and houses and credit cards is where I see most people get into trouble. I see people buying 30-40k cars and their yearly salary is only 30-40k. If you are purchasing cars that equal more than half your annual salary, you will set yourself up for financial failure if you continue doing this for two decades. There are several great financial books that can explain all of this on a very basic level and are actually fun to read.

Good Luck
JC

straightnochase
03-26-2007, 12:26 PM
Wow you're bitter. What difference does it make how someone is able to make their payments? If somebody wants to drive a 5 series and is willing to make other sacrifices to achieve it, that is their right. If someone else wants to max out credit so they can drive one, well the world has a funny way of catching up to them. And if they can stay ahead of it all, more power to them for beating the system.

It shouldn't be for you though to tell people what to buy or lease. If you get jealous or upset at seeing someone driving a car and think they probably can't afford it, then there are some other problems you need to be addressing.

Be happy for what you have and be happy for others for what they have. You'll enjoy life a lot more that way.

+1

L8SHIFT
03-26-2007, 12:27 PM
Just enjoy your life and stay out of others…..L8

jorwig
03-26-2007, 01:24 PM
Just enjoy your life and stay out of others…..L8

I love reading this forum...but some of the topics that come up on here are crazy. I am 26 and have a 550i and 335i...what should I be earning?(PS.....WHO CARES!) Don't sweat the small stuff....if you can afford it go ahead and buy it:thumbup: Life is good...:bigpimp:

mason
03-26-2007, 01:32 PM
I think you need to look at adjusted disposable income, meaning annual income minus texas and necessary expenses like mortgage and healthcare insurance. On a nominal term (pre-tax basis), Americans were using roughly 26 weeks of their income to purchase a car. Well, in this case, you better earn somewhere around $100k to get a 5er.

chonko
03-26-2007, 02:48 PM
Exactly...some people would want to spend 15k a year on a nice vacation, others may want to join a golf club, another may want a 5 series, while others may want to save it in case times aren't as sunny in the future.

Who's to say what is the right way to spend that money...only the person that is looking to spend it.

I am in agreement with you. I have a 3er now because I don't have kids, however since I am expecting one, my next car is definitely the 5er. If I were single, I will stick with the 3er.

palmster
03-26-2007, 04:21 PM
If you even feel the need to post a thread such as this, it sounds to me like you should be looking at the new 1 series when they arrive in the US and stay in your Kia or Hyundai or pick up until such time you can afford a 5 series.


Purely speaking of current lease terms for the NEW 08 5's, yeah the money factor makes the monthly payment of the new 550, the same as a 7 series. That is a bummer for even those of us who can afford these cars, but again not something that we complain will ever break the bank.

Don't bite off what you cannot chew.

SteVTEC
03-26-2007, 04:22 PM
I think some of the people jumping down wagonman's throat must have a guilty conscience because it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. My my, how sensitive people get at such a simple question. Maybe those people are exactly the people he's referring to and really are kidding themselves on being able to afford a 5er.

#5880
03-26-2007, 05:26 PM
Transportation expenses should not exceed 19.1% of your net income.

That includes gas, insurance, tolls, repair, etc...

$60,000 income

$12,000 taxes

$9,168 for gas, plates, insurance and payments.

I think you could fit a new 5 series in there :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Get the leather while you're at it!:thumbup:

1994_RX-7_Tour
03-26-2007, 05:57 PM
I think you need to look at adjusted disposable income, meaning annual income minus texas and necessary expenses like mortgage and healthcare insurance. On a nominal term (pre-tax basis), Americans were using roughly 26 weeks of their income to purchase a car. Well, in this case, you better earn somewhere around $100k to get a 5er.

Hey, is someone here owning Texas? :bustingup just kidding... I was born there :)

OBTW - What if someone loves cars so much - they'll skimp in other areas to afford a great (expensive) car... a matter of priorities as well as income isn't it?

Easy for us to be judgmental... like somehow one of us is an authority on how someone else uses their $$.... heck if someone wants to live life more dangerously than another in financial sense, let them do it.

We all (me included) do make judgments about how much $$ people have by what they drive, but that's judging a book by its cover... you just never know...

I admit it's kind of nice to have a car that is unique / different... but I don't want a $200K Bentley (or whatever is really expensive) even though I could afford it. I'll love having a 2008 550i because it's about as close to an FA-18 cockpit as I can get and stay on the ground... :drive:... HUD and FLIR (Night Vision) and electronic Flight Controls (new Steptronic tranny)... now when can I get the Sidewinder heat-seeking missile option? Does that come out in 2009? :violent: "That is a 20mm cannon, Mr. Bond... " :thumbup:

chuck92103
03-26-2007, 06:18 PM
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?
i say minimum is 100k per year. and/or a net worth excluding home of at least three times the purchase price. that means 150k minimum invested assets and/or annual income of 100k. i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.

If you live in Texas or another low cost housing area than yes. In CA, NYC, Chicago,etc. I would think $200k+.

But in the end it comes down to how you manage your finances. I suspect there are some folks earning $60k who are in a better position to buy a 5 series than someone making $200k. More money does not buy more common sense.

#5880
03-26-2007, 06:21 PM
I guess this is why a good Financial Advisor does so well...

I post the answer and people still don't use it :rofl:

"I luf dis contry" :thumbup:

shabbaman
03-26-2007, 06:47 PM
I guess this is why a good Financial Advisor does so well...

I post the answer and people still don't use it :rofl:

"I luf dis contry" :thumbup:

I think for people that drive a Topaz Blue E39 any and all exceptions should be made.

HW
03-26-2007, 07:10 PM
top 5% of households :dunno:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

gr8330
03-26-2007, 08:16 PM
If it's really important to you if I can afford my BMW's I need to ask why? What is equally as bad as you post is ....why the hell am I even responding

tommydogsdad
03-26-2007, 08:23 PM
Older people, from what I have noticed, tend to pay cash. Here's my mom buying her 5 series a few years ago.... "I would like a blue one, please....Small or large bills?"


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Kroozin
03-26-2007, 10:59 PM
Transportation expenses should not exceed 19.1***37; of your net income.

That includes gas, insurance, tolls, repair, etc...

$60,000 income

$12,000 taxes

$9,168 for gas, plates, insurance and payments.

I think you could fit a new 5 series in there :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Get the leather while you're at it!:thumbup:
I don't think 12k is 19.1% of the NET income. By this logic, if you're making $60k you should only be able to afford roughly $8595 for gas, plates, ins and payments (assuming 25% to taxes). That makes it a little tougher to afford.


I drive a 5 series and now have an income of only about 65k. No problem. But then, I am retired, with no mortgage or other debt of any kind, and my children are out of college. I bought my car for cash, two years old for about half the new price. If I had wanted it, I could have easily purchased an m5.

Generalizations of any kind seldom work.

What I think is missing are several elements such as what chiefwej said; what are your other obligations if any... There are probably a few young adults living at home with their parents that get to spend all their money on themselves for partying and toys - plus their parents probably pay their insurance too.

M550
03-26-2007, 11:23 PM
I might be there before long myself. :cry:

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

mullman
03-27-2007, 06:09 AM
This has got to be one of the silliest threads of the week, IMHO.

Yesterday driving home I heard, then saw a 360 Challenge Stradale.
I smiled as it drove by.
Honestly I did not even look at the driver, I only thought: "Nice Car".

But in general our consumption driven economy, backed by easy credit (or even predatory credit agencies) has attributed to a scenario where many do live in a house of cards. It is easy to "look" like a millionaire, but much harder to be one.

At the end of the day I have much bigger issues than judging if I think people can afford this or that - that is their problem.

HPIA4v2
03-27-2007, 07:10 AM
this is a question more to BMW than us.
They the one who keep track of demographics, one thing BMW very proud of is that their median age buyers are in low 40's compare to cadilac which are more in their 50's.

HW
03-27-2007, 08:02 AM
This has got to be one of the silliest threads of the week, IMHO.

Yesterday driving home I heard, then saw a 360 Challenge Stradale.
I smiled as it drove by.
Honestly I did not even look at the driver, I only thought: "Nice Car".

But in general our consumption driven economy, backed by easy credit (or even predatory credit agencies) has attributed to a scenario where many do live in a house of cards. It is easy to "look" like a millionaire, but much harder to be one.

At the end of the day I have much bigger issues than judging if I think people can afford this or that - that is their problem.

but there ARE a lot of millionaires and people making more than $300K/yr in america :dunno:

mullman
03-27-2007, 09:06 AM
but there ARE a lot of millionaires and people making more than $300K/yr in america :dunno:

HW, I am not sure what your point is, but I would say you are correct.

God Bless a place where people can arrive with nothing but the clothes on their backs and through sheer determination, hard work, & some luck, be as successful as they wish. American is still the land of opportunity.
Ironically in spite of itself sometimes.



Just for the record, I'm not a millionaire :p

kevinp
03-27-2007, 09:23 AM
i agree, it does depend upon what someones overall overhead is. it is true a single person living in an inexpensive city could afford a 5 series with a lower salary. i stand corrected.
i am more directing this thread at those fakers who love to presnt themselves to the world as "movers and shakers" when behind the scenes it is a house of cards.

Your whole argument is worthless in a time when you can lease cars with no money down for 60 months.

The days of buying a car with cash or financing it over 3 years with a large down-payment are over.

Case closed:thumbup:

1994_RX-7_Tour
03-27-2007, 09:44 AM
Your whole argument is worthless in a time when you can lease cars with no money down for 60 months.

The days of buying a car with cash or financing it over 3 years with a large down-payment are over.

Case closed:thumbup:

But - if you want to keep the car for 6-7 yrs or longer / possibly mod, buying still makes sense. And a 6- or 7-year loan not necessarily bad if you can invest $$ elsewhere for more than the interest rate of the loan, no? :D

bimmerguy288
03-27-2007, 10:11 AM
God Bless a place where people can arrive with nothing but the clothes on their backs and through sheer determination, hard work, & some luck, be as successful as they wish. American is still the land of opportunity.
:p

That's me. I arrived in 1990 with very little. The first time I ever sat in a car (not our car, it was the company's) in my native country was around 1982 at the age of 18. I could have never dreamed of owning a BMW. God bless America! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

ProRail
03-27-2007, 10:19 AM
yes, there are many variables. and yes, whatever it takes if it makes you happy and you are driving it. good luck to you.

Thanks. I'm sure I speak for all the other 5 owners when I express my gratitude for your good wishes.

#5880
03-27-2007, 10:28 AM
I don't think 12k is 19.1% of the NET income. By this logic, if you're making $60k you should only be able to afford roughly $8595 for gas, plates, ins and payments (assuming 25% to taxes). That makes it a little tougher to afford.

OK, I'll show ALL of my work, for the mathematicly challenged:

60k income------------20% taxes= 12k

net income 48k X .191 = 9,168

Do you need that in bold? :p

HW
03-27-2007, 10:39 AM
OK, I'll show ALL of my work, for the mathematicly challenged:

60k income------------20% taxes= 12k

net income 48k X .191 = 9,168

Do you need that in bold? :p

SS tax :dunno:

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 11:22 AM
OK, I'll show ALL of my work, for the mathematicly challenged:

60k income------------20% taxes= 12k

net income 48k X .191 = 9,168

Do you need that in bold? :p

Way too many assumptions and variables for any cookie cutter example to be worth anything. A financial advisor who tries to cookie cut you into a plan is worthless.

#5880
03-27-2007, 11:26 AM
Way too many assumptions and variables for any cookie cutter example to be worth anything. A financial advisor who tries to cookie cut you into a plan is worthless.


Hey, leave Suze Orman out of this!

Show me the math that a college grad making 60k can afford a 5.

And how is this a plan? That was added by you

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 11:33 AM
Transportation expenses should not exceed 19.1% of your net income.

That includes gas, insurance, tolls, repair, etc...

$60,000 income

$12,000 taxes

$9,168 for gas, plates, insurance and payments.

I think you could fit a new 5 series in there :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Get the leather while you're at it!:thumbup:

That seems like a plan proposal to me.
An easy way for a person making $60k to afford a 5 series?, they live at home or have enough roomates to bring living expenses way down. Has offsetable business losses so that cashflow and income are not equal. Most couldn't, but there are some situations where a person could. $60k in some parts of the country is a lot of money. My point is, who is anyone to tell a stranger what they can or can't afford, and why would anyone care? The OP has had many troll like posts before

#5880
03-27-2007, 11:43 AM
That seems like a plan proposal to me.
An easy way for a person making $60k to afford a 5 series?, they live at home or have enough roomates to bring living expenses way down. Has offsetable business losses so that cashflow and income are not equal. Most couldn't, but there are some situations where a person could. $60k in some parts of the country is a lot of money. My point is, who is anyone to tell a stranger what they can or can't afford, and why would anyone care? The OP has had many troll like posts before

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So, when someone comes to me and says

"I make 60k and my only goal is drive a 5"

I say "Great, I won't take you on as a customer"

Only FA can charge for advice, and we can be sued for negligence. That would constitute negligence by not fulfilling the 6 steps of advice.

So again, I stick with my telling him the parameters of 19.1% max on transportation.

And again, that's NOT A FINANCIAL PLAN

chuck92103
03-27-2007, 11:53 AM
OK, I'll show ALL of my work, for the mathematicly challenged:

60k income------------20***37; taxes= 12k

net income 48k X .191 = 9,168

Do you need that in bold? :p

+1 Also, when determining your cost or percentage of income for transportation, you need to be realistic.

i.e. If you buy a car or lease over 4 years, for example, the monthly cost including all finance charges, down payments, etc.

So in other words, if you buy a $50k car and put $25k down, you need to include the hefty down payment in the equation not just your current monthly payment. The same goes for leasing, all the money upfront to get into the lease.:thumbup:

Keep in mind, being able to make a car payment, and affording a car payment are two different things.

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 12:00 PM
your telling him it is ok to spend 19.1% of income on transportation is not a plan?? That is not financial advice?? You contradict yourself in your own post. I would never quote a % as an absolute on what a person can spend. Its like the 1/3 guidline for housing, Iwould never quote a guidline as being a parameter or rule without knowledge of a person financial situation, goals and obligations.

chiefwej
03-27-2007, 12:21 PM
I personally believe in letting others buy or lease the new car, then I pick up the most pristine two or three year old one, with very low miles, for less than the price of a new Honda.

I bought my current car two years old w/ 17k on it for about half of new price. I can't justify taking a $30,000 depreciation hit to drive a new car for about 15-20,000 miles. One dollar a mile depreciation to drive a new car - no thanks. So, new cars are for others, almost new cars for me, thank you.

KCooke82
03-27-2007, 12:21 PM
These forums crack me up at times! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it is human nature to defend what we believe. I guess that's why some threads get heated, amusing, etc.
I can see how the original poster's curiousity led to this thread. I'm sure we have all wondered on certain occasions who does what. Go figure that at 23, I went out and bought a 545. I have found myself on numerous occasions in an awkard position because the 45 year old that I am doing business with has a 530 E-class, or M35. But I do not necessarily think either of us wondered who makes what.

What it comes down to is that yes, there are demographics released by BMW, and then there is the wide spread of variety, as seen on this forum. So many factors make it impossible to generalize or stereotype.

Interesting discussion though - perhaps we should have a thread discussing occupations! Will that get as heated??? mmmmm

kevinp
03-27-2007, 12:38 PM
But - if you want to keep the car for 6-7 yrs or longer / possibly mod, buying still makes sense. And a 6- or 7-year loan not necessarily bad if you can invest $$ elsewhere for more than the interest rate of the loan, no? :D

Agree completely with your thinking:thumbup:

#5880
03-27-2007, 12:53 PM
your telling him it is ok to spend 19.1% of income on transportation is not a plan?? That is not financial advice?? You contradict yourself in your own post. I would never quote a % as an absolute on what a person can spend. Its like the 1/3 guidline for housing, Iwould never quote a guidline as being a parameter or rule without knowledge of a person financial situation, goals and obligations.

A.) You either can't read or comprehend what I said
"should not exceed" is what I wrote, Do you need that Phonetically?

B.)Housing should not exceed 32.7% is again a guideline.

Financial situation, he said he just graduated college and had income of 60k. The only stated goal was a 5, obigations weren't stated. IF YOU TOOK THE CFP EXAM, you would know that if someone doesn't give you all the facts you can refuse them as a client or make an educated guess, allowing you to further their situation.

Nobody straight from college making 60k should buy a 50k car out of their pocket.

If you think they should, you're obviously a broker, not an FA:rofl:

wagonman
03-27-2007, 12:59 PM
a faker is a person who materially oriented and talking up everything they do as though it were the best. i know one such person. i am sure all of you do. this person owns a 5-6k bycicle (which they never wide) drives an 06 530i his wife drives a cayenne s and he has a 2003 porsche 911 to boot. every latest video-cam, tv, camera he has it--and is the first on the block. he has poor interpersonal (social skills) and has the nuts to bitch about how much it costs to send his kids to private school. i also happen to know the guy is seriously in debt to finance all of this and is therefoe by defintion a FAKER. in other words, he doesnt REALLY have the true backing to be living the way he does. secondarily where i grew up you pay for your kids school FIRST then, whatever is left over you buy toys with. i get it from all these posts that i have struck a cord with people. good. it was my intention to do so. my point is simply: allocate your resources however you see fit. it is a democracy after all. i simply say if you are walking with an extra bounce in your step because you drive a bimmer. you better be able to back it up with a legit balance sheet. my tow cents.

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 01:15 PM
a faker is a person who materially oriented and talking up everything they do as though it were the best. i know one such person. i am sure all of you do. this person owns a 5-6k bycicle (which they never wide) drives an 06 530i his wife drives a cayenne s and he has a 2003 porsche 911 to boot. every latest video-cam, tv, camera he has it--and is the first on the block. he has poor interpersonal (social skills) and has the nuts to bitch about how much it costs to send his kids to private school. i also happen to know the guy is seriously in debt to finance all of this and is therefoe by defintion a FAKER. in other words, he doesnt REALLY have the true backing to be living the way he does. secondarily where i grew up you pay for your kids school FIRST then, whatever is left over you buy toys with. i get it from all these posts that i have struck a cord with people. good. it was my intention to do so. my point is simply: allocate your resources however you see fit. it is a democracy after all. i simply say if you are walking with an extra bounce in your step because you drive a bimmer. you better be able to back it up with a legit balance sheet. my tow cents.

Why do you care?? Your posts, not just in this thread, but everytime i see them, are extremly negative or sensative to people who don't think like you. You come accross as a very small person.

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 01:24 PM
This was the original question
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?
i say minimum is 100k per year. and/or a net worth excluding home of at least three times the purchase price. that means 150k minimum invested assets and/or annual income of 100k. i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.
This was your response
Transportation expenses should not exceed 19.1% of your net income.

That includes gas, insurance, tolls, repair, etc...

$60,000 income

$12,000 taxes

$9,168 for gas, plates, insurance and payments.

I think you could fit a new 5 series in there :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Get the leather while you're at it!:thumbup:

Based upon the information provided, you do not have enough information to present what you did. That is what i am saying. That is even what you are saying. You offered up advice without having proper information. You made assumptions about their tax burden and about their disposable income. Later on you added that his only goal was a 5 series, which was never stated as his "only" goal. Your just to proud to admit you jumped the gun with advice.

And i am not a broker or a CFP, I am a CPA, the person who clients go to after their broker or CFP give them bad advice due to them not having enough information or knowledge.

COSMOS_530
03-27-2007, 01:42 PM
And i am not a broker or a CFP, I am a CPA, the person who clients go to after their broker or CFP give them bad advice due to them not having enough information or knowledge.

CPA FTW ! CPA - 1 , Broker/CFP/Borat- 0.

I may be biased, as accounting is my major.

#5880
03-27-2007, 01:43 PM
And i am not a broker or a CFP, I am a CPA, the person who clients go to after their broker or CFP give them bad advice due to them not having enough information or knowledge.

A CPA!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I've had to walk 2 CPA's through their own business today, I guess you're the turd, er I mean Third.

One I had to explain a stretch IRA to, and the other NUA. But I'm sure you're an expert on that, as well as FA,...... which......you're.........not licensed in......therefore.........not allowed to charge for advice in...........finances............whereas I am :rofl:

Stick to bean counting:tsk:

swchang
03-27-2007, 02:04 PM
+1. There are certainly a lot of things to learn from a 3 series sub forum. A lot of them really know the technical stuff. But there are also a lot of" my d$ck is bigger than your d$ck, how many chicks have I attracted cuz I drive a BMW, this guy ate my dust at the light, if you don't drive a stick, you are an idiot" type of things. Sometimes it's quite entertaining.

I have to agree, in general, the 5er owners are more mature (should I say "older"?) and in better financial shape.

Yes, after reading through this thread, I completely agree with you. So mature. :eek:

Dude, you need to relax and not take things people say over the Internet so personally. :tsk:

Dude, you moved? Have I been hiding under a rock or something?

I think some of the people jumping down wagonman's throat must have a guilty conscience because it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. My my, how sensitive people get at such a simple question. Maybe those people are exactly the people he's referring to and really are kidding themselves on being able to afford a 5er.

Agreed. Reasonable question, although I can see how others might see it being tinged by jealousy. I disagree with the notion that people spending money irresponsibly is simply a "live and let live" sort of situation, however. Children can be affected if their parents go bankrupt and my tax money goes towards welfare and Medicaid payments...

James
03-27-2007, 02:18 PM
a faker is a person who materially oriented and talking up everything they do as though it were the best. i know one such person. i am sure all of you do. this person owns a 5-6k bycicle (which they never wide) drives an 06 530i his wife drives a cayenne s and he has a 2003 porsche 911 to boot. every latest video-cam, tv, camera he has it--and is the first on the block. he has poor interpersonal (social skills) and has the nuts to bitch about how much it costs to send his kids to private school. i also happen to know the guy is seriously in debt to finance all of this and is therefoe by defintion a FAKER. in other words, he doesnt REALLY have the true backing to be living the way he does. secondarily where i grew up you pay for your kids school FIRST then, whatever is left over you buy toys with. i get it from all these posts that i have struck a cord with people. good. it was my intention to do so. my point is simply: allocate your resources however you see fit. it is a democracy after all. i simply say if you are walking with an extra bounce in your step because you drive a bimmer. you better be able to back it up with a legit balance sheet. my tow cents.

Having all that stuff doesn't make them a faker. If he drove a Civic with an M5 badge that would be a faker. How he chooses to leverage his income/assets to get the things that interest him (even if that interest is projecting a certain image) is his business.

I think the root of this is that you think people judge him to be more successful then you and it pisses you off because you know it's a house of cards.

This really isn't about him at all.

Pjuran
03-27-2007, 03:18 PM
Come on guys. Who cares about who can afford this and who can afford that.

This site is all about the pride in being able to drive a BMW (who cares how you got it) and the attributes of the car and people discussing their expereinces with their BMWs.

Let's get back to business and drop this crap.

dinkoh
03-27-2007, 03:30 PM
I actually found this thread useful. Besides the name calling, I enjoy reading people's thoughts about the value of a car. Anyone can write their opinion even if it irks others. It's a forum, one can speak their mind without personally attacking others.

HW
03-27-2007, 03:55 PM
I actually found this thread useful. Besides the name calling, I enjoy reading people's thoughts about the value of a car. Anyone can write their opinion even if it irks others. It's a forum, one can speak their mind without personally attacking others.
:thumbup:

krash
03-27-2007, 03:58 PM
a faker is a person who materially oriented and talking up everything they do as though it were the best. i know one such person. i am sure all of you do. this person owns a 5-6k bycicle (which they never wide) drives an 06 530i his wife drives a cayenne s and he has a 2003 porsche 911 to boot. every latest video-cam, tv, camera he has it--and is the first on the block. he has poor interpersonal (social skills) and has the nuts to bitch about how much it costs to send his kids to private school. i also happen to know the guy is seriously in debt to finance all of this and is therefoe by defintion a FAKER. in other words, he doesnt REALLY have the true backing to be living the way he does. secondarily where i grew up you pay for your kids school FIRST then, whatever is left over you buy toys with. i get it from all these posts that i have struck a cord with people. good. it was my intention to do so. my point is simply: allocate your resources however you see fit. it is a democracy after all. i simply say if you are walking with an extra bounce in your step because you drive a bimmer. you better be able to back it up with a legit balance sheet. my tow cents.

:dunno:
Who exactly is a faker on this forum?

I do agree about 1 thing. Your children's education should be a higher priority than the car you drive. That is why I'm not getting an M5.
:D

Speaking about the cost of education...
College could cost me $20k per year per kid.
$20k*4*2=$160k
:mad:

My kids are still young (10 & 12). I have a lot saved for them. Plus, our house will be totally paid for when my oldest is still in high school. That will help big time. But geez, they better take care of me when I'm old and bed ridden...

Majikthese42
03-27-2007, 04:34 PM
Speaking about the cost of education...
College could cost me $20k per year per kid.
$20k*4*2=$160k
:mad:



Costs are up to $50,000 Annually (CLICK HERE) (http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/19/most-expensive-colleges-biz-cx_tvr_0119college.html) at many of the "elite" schools.

At the current education inflation rate, think $75,000*4*2=$600,000 if your kids can get accepted to Harvard.

Then, there's graduate or professional school....

I figure I can "afford" something if I can write out the check without my hand quivering.

ks-man
03-27-2007, 04:43 PM
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?
i say minimum is 100k per year. and/or a net worth excluding home of at least three times the purchase price. that means 150k minimum invested assets and/or annual income of 100k. i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.

This was the original post. I agree that the question is good and fuels an interesting discussion. The last sentence's tone is what got people responding and his subsequent posts about fakers (and other thread posts) is what proves that he is bitter/jealous and not trying to be helpful.

While I agree that a child's education should come first, that isn't a requirement and some people don't think that their kid's college costs should be their responsibility. Some people think that making a kid take out loans and working to pay them off teaches good values. Again this isn't my belief but I don't believe I should tell anyone else how to raise their kids. Also according to most financial and investment advisers you should be saving for retirement before saving for college since you can't get loans for retirement and it could help in applying for student loans.

My parents provided for my private education and I will do the same for my kids when I have them. Just my $.02 :thumbup:

krash
03-27-2007, 05:33 PM
Also according to most financial and investment advisers you should be saving for retirement before saving for college since you can't get loans for retirement and it could help in applying for loans.


Yep. I would agree with that. I just responded by saying that my children's college education is a higher priority than an M5 (or any car for that matter). But I don't think saving for my children's college education is the #1 priority.

My priorities:

Retirement
General Savings and Investment (which could some day be applied to college as well)
College Education for children.
Home Improvements
BMW 535


Then there are the everyday mandatory expenses. Mortgage, food, nice things for home, nice clothes for the family, vacations, guitar lessons for son, dance lessons for daugther, etc., etc.

Majikthese42
03-27-2007, 06:27 PM
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?

If you can write out a check for the full price of the car without your hand quivering, then you can afford one of these cars. Not that you necessarily would, if you can beat the imputed rate of interest on the lease. But you could.

It may have changed but I thought the last time anyone looked (a few years ago) the vehicle most commonly purchased by millionaires was not a BMW or Mercedes model, but the Ford F-series.

SteVTEC
03-27-2007, 06:40 PM
This was the original post. I agree that the question is good and fuels an interesting discussion. The last sentence's tone is what got people responding and his subsequent posts about fakers (and other thread posts) is what proves that he is bitter/jealous and not trying to be helpful.How the heck does that prove anything other than that there are some very different personality types here and that people have very different views and don't see eye to eye on things? These bitter/jealous/chip-on-shoulder comments are nonsense IMO. Actually, they're classic defense mechanisms in the psychological sense, demonizing someone so that you can justify not listening to them.

Because I'm choosing to buy a 528i instead of a 535 or a 550 and seriously question the justification for a 550 on U.S. roads when money could be spent much better elsewhere, I am therefore jealous, bitter, or have a chip on my shoulder, blah blah blah, heard it all before. Is this a cliche defense mechanism around here? If you don't like the question, then just demonize the person asking them so that you can justify not listening or answering, if even to yourself.

I think the root of this is that you think people judge him to be more successful then you and it pisses you off because you know it's a house of cards.

This really isn't about him at all.I think what you might have meant is that you yourself would be pissed off and jealous, and therefore wagonman must be jealous, because you think all people think and act just like you when they don't. How could a non-materialistic person be jealous of someone who has more "materials" than they do when by nature they're not materialistic?? If one's social status or perception of success is elevated due to greater display of materials, then they'll reject the entire social structure and perception also since their definitions of success are far different.

People with the mentality that the one with the most toys "wins" only wins among people that care about accumulating toys. Other people just don't give a **** and could care less, and think it's a complete waste of resources and laugh at the stupidity, especially when they know underneath all those toys is a mountain of debt that they'll likely never recover from. The people laughing are the ones driving cheapo Hondas and Toyotas, yet have a net worth 10x greater than the guy next door with a big boat, and a bunch of fancy cars. That dude with the toys laughs at his neighbor for driving a beat old Honda and thinks they're stupid. They're both laughing at each other and thinks each other is stupid for different things and reasons, and they both have far different priorities and live their lives accordingly.

And so be it. PEOPLE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

ks-man
03-27-2007, 06:58 PM
Because I'm choosing to buy a 528i instead of a 535 or a 550 and seriously question the justification for a 550 on U.S. roads when money could be spent much better elsewhere, I am therefore jealous, bitter, or have a chip on my shoulder, blah blah blah, heard it all before.


I would only call you jealous or bitter if you tried to put down others who do choose to buy the 535, 550 or anything else. If you had read my earlier posts you would see that my belief is anybody should spend their money how they choose. If you think the 528 is the right car for you, that's great. If somebody else were to drive a Kia, Hyundai, Civic or Corolla right on...even if they have millions. I would never think less of somebody for driving any kind of car (though I do have strong opinions to those cab drivers who are a menace to the road).

My problem is with someone saying that others shouldn't be driving their car and calling them fakers. If you think there is some underlying psychological concern b/c I'm a "faker" and defensive about it, then knock yourself out. I know my situation and am very comfortable with it.
I'm very excited about my new BMW. I'll also be very excited for my neighbor, co-worker or friend who chooses to buy a Ferrari, and the last thing on my mind is whether they are just putting on a show. You know why, b/c their Ferrari doesn't make them any better than me, the same way my BMW doesn't make me any better than somebody driving a far cheaper car.

ks-man
03-27-2007, 07:46 PM
After my last vent... as I've said I do think the concept of the original question is interesting.

Is there a way to create an anonymous poll to see what income people are that are buying these cars? My guess is that very few of the people on these boards are struggling to afford it. I don't think somebody who maxes out credit to barely afford their new BMW would spend much time on these boards, they'd just go ahead and buy it...just a thought.

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 08:43 PM
A CPA!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I've had to walk 2 CPA's through their own business today, I guess you're the turd, er I mean Third.

One I had to explain a stretch IRA to, and the other NUA. But I'm sure you're an expert on that, as well as FA,...... which......you're.........not licensed in......therefore.........not allowed to charge for advice in...........finances............whereas I am :rofl:

Stick to bean counting:tsk:

Well I have successfully testified as a witness against several CFA's, so perhaps our paths will cross one day.

As for the rest of this thread, if your not happy and comfortable with yourself, a new car or house or watch will never fully satisfy you. If what you drive makes you happy, who is anyone to tell you otherwise. Everyone has different priorities and obligations. The only time i respond against someone is when they try to make assumptions about me based upon my ride. And, I will admit, I have fun in arguing. :thumbup:

SSbear44
03-27-2007, 08:50 PM
After my last vent... as I've said I do think the concept of the original question is interesting.

Is there a way to create an anonymous poll to see what income people are that are buying these cars? My guess is that very few of the people on these boards are struggling to afford it. I don't think somebody who maxes out credit to barely afford their new BMW would spend much time on these boards, they'd just go ahead and buy it...just a thought.

:rofl: you really think people on an internet message board would be honest about their income??

GN2
03-27-2007, 09:43 PM
Why does anyone care what someone else is making. IF BMW Finance or some other institution was willing to loan them money (or they paid cash) it seems as though they have enough to satisfy some minimum standard of creditworthiness/income.

Plenty of people can afford this or a comparable (price-wise) automobile. Whether they chose to spend their money on it is another issue. The funny part is that many wealthy people wouldn't by this car anyway. Either too many ordinary people can afford it or they just wouldn't spend their money on a depreciating item like this.

There seem to be other things that people should be concerned about rather than if the person driving a car similar to yours is faking. If you are worried about this are you worried about people faking being competent (the President); people faking that they are honest or considerate (look to your local and state governments); or faking that they confident when they are actually insecure and worried about what the person next to them has and how they got it.

I hope that it is not the only one who tends not to sorry about what others have or can afford. I get what satisfies me. Plus, it would be weird to spend my time thinking what others on this or some other message board earns.

In the end, which is more disturbing? The person who is "faking" or the person looking at someone with this or some other relatively expensive automobile and claiming that that person is faking. By the way, does the non-faker have to wear a suit everyday? Are non-fakers in a particular profession or should they have gone to a ranked undergradute anad/or proefessional school? Is the person who buys a demo or a one or two year-old car faking since they didnt pay full price? Perhaps those people who cannot afford or simply chose not to have most or all of the available options are faking. Maybe each person who bought the entry level 5 series or a 3 series is faking.

The fact that someone will forego vacations, take their lunch or what ever they do to purchase what they want is a testiment to their desire and discipline. More power to them. I join each person that believes in fiscal responsibilty is ideal. However, adults make decisons for themselves and get to reap the rewards or burdens that accompany those decisions. My .02 as well. Cheers.

ks-man
03-27-2007, 09:52 PM
:rofl: you really think people on an internet message board would be honest about their income??

It's anonymous, why wouldn't people be honest?

Ugly Bear
03-27-2007, 10:55 PM
It's anonymous, why wouldn't people be honest?

Yeah, right. Never assume Web is anonymous unless you really know how to do secure browsing and posting (and even then there is no 100% guarantee). No offense, but posting under a nick does not mean it is impossible to figure out who the person is.

ks-man
03-27-2007, 11:14 PM
I meant a poll is anonymous, some message board sights have it where you vote and it doesn't show what each person put down, it just shows the total stats. I guess Bimmerfest doesn't have that.

mullman
03-28-2007, 06:15 AM
Speaking about the cost of education...
College could cost me $20k per year per kid.


I'll be far from shocked...
Private school kindergarten and first grade for my girls approaches that :eek:
But that is my priority right now.

Heck when they graduate and if they go to a state college I could even see a savings - haha

The bottom line of this thread, IMHO is that life is all about priorities.
Some choose to spend a very high percentage on transportation, some on education, some on partying, some on traveling, clothes, watches, ect.

Is it really our place to judge how others choose to spend their income and deem them foolish?

I do not think so, life is too short.

swchang
03-28-2007, 06:52 AM
Guys, all of the polls you suggest have been done before. You can do them again if you wish. And yes, bimmerfest does have the option of anonymous polls, or at least did last time I checked. :)

goodman
03-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Sharing an aversion to depreciating assets with many of the posters here, I just bought an '04 545i Sport, 11k mi., w/navi, logic 7, pdc, frs, and cold pkg., avoiding $25k in depreciation paid by the first owner, who, judging by the condition of the tires, didn't get much enjoyment out of his 11k mi. of use.

mapezzul
03-28-2007, 06:22 PM
The bottom line of this thread, IMHO is that life is all about priorities.
Some choose to spend a very high percentage on transportation, some on education, some on partying, some on traveling, clothes, watches, ect.

Is it really our place to judge how others choose to spend their income and deem them foolish?

I do not think so, life is too short.

Could not agree with you more!:thumbup:

EJSDad
03-28-2007, 06:24 PM
Wow wagonman. That is a pretty arrogant statement. Are BMW's reserved for the wealthy so the middle class can drool? I will use my situation as an example. I may not be making as much as the average 5 series owner(and a bit younger to boot) but what I do have is next to nil for debt except for my mortgage. I can comfortably afford a handsomely optioned 535i. Once I sell my Yukon bus I'll join the 5 series club.

To play devil's advocate in your defense I wil say this; I do to some degree believe you should be paying a motgage prior to buying a $50K+ vehicle but that is my personal opinion. I say this because I have a aquaintance that drives an S Class but lives with a roomate. That to me does not make financial sense. I'd rather have a nice home than a nice car. Just my two cents

swchang
03-28-2007, 07:01 PM
Wow wagonman. That is a pretty arrogant statement. Are BMW's reserved for the wealthy so the middle class can drool? I will use my situation as an example. I may not be making as much as the average 5 series owner(and a bit younger to boot) but what I do have is next to nil for debt except for my mortgage. I can comfortably afford a handsomely optioned 535i. Once I sell my Yukon bus I'll join the 5 series club.

To play devil's advocate in your defense I wil say this; I do to some degree believe you should be paying a motgage prior to buying a $50K+ vehicle but that is my personal opinion. I say this because I have a aquaintance that drives an S Class but lives with a roomate. That to me does not make financial sense. I'd rather have a nice home than a nice car. Just my two cents

Even in that case it depends, though. If your acquaintance might move in the next 1-2 years, it may not make sense to sink money into closing costs, attorney's fees, etc. I think Stuka posted some WSJ article recently about how it can be somewhat silly to sink 30-40% of your "portfolio" into one "pick," as happens when you buy a house. :dunno:

That said, I believe conventional wisdom becomes conventional for a good reason. ;)

Mac Daddy
03-28-2007, 07:05 PM
I think Stuka posted some WSJ article recently about how it can be somewhat silly to sink 30-40% of your "portfolio" into one "pick," as happens when you buy a house. :dunno:

That said, I believe conventional wisdom becomes conventional for a good reason. ;)

The main reason for that is the mortgage interest tax deduction. ;)

swchang
03-28-2007, 07:42 PM
The main reason for that is the mortgage interest tax deduction. ;)

Main reason for what?

EJSDad
03-28-2007, 09:03 PM
The tax deduction is nice. I remember my first tax return after I bought my first home. I was like holy sh!t!! THIS is what homeowners are talking about. To address swchang. The guy I'm talking about has been living in this situation since we met in 2000. He could have bought a roach motel in San Diego at that time and had a minimum of $200K equity by now. Well I guess I should focus on the car I want and not everyone else.

SSbear44
03-29-2007, 06:48 AM
Beware the AMT when you buy a house. If you qualify for AMT, the deduction you get for your RE taxes may be greatly diminished. Run the numbers so you don't get a nasty suprise.

Mac Daddy
03-29-2007, 07:16 AM
Beware the AMT when you buy a house. If you qualify for AMT, the deduction you get for your RE taxes may be greatly diminished. Run the numbers so you don't get a nasty suprise.

AMT applies to property taxes, but not the mortgage interest deduction.

HPIA4v2
03-29-2007, 07:23 AM
Just remember you can sleep in your car but can you drive your house?:)

SSbear44
03-29-2007, 08:22 AM
AMT applies to property taxes, but not the mortgage interest deduction.

Hence why I said

Beware the AMT when you buy a house. If you qualify for AMT, the deduction you get for your RE taxes may be greatly diminished. Run the numbers so you don't get a nasty suprise.

Ugly Bear
03-29-2007, 09:21 PM
Main reason for what?

You see, if you buy a house and it grows in value, you do want to sell it before growth exceeds $500K since you pay ordinary income tax on over 500K. So if you gain about $500K on your home, sell it and buy a new, more expensive one. This way you save on taxes and continue declaring deductions. Some people say real estate is overpriced. Maybe. But you know old saying about the land: they don't make it anymore.:)

chiefwej
03-29-2007, 11:52 PM
Just remember you can sleep in your car but can you drive your house?:)

A new 5 series looses 46% of it's value in the first 36 months. My new house gained $100,000 value in the first 36 months. I bought my car used (let someone else take that initial hit) and my house new, and I paid cash for both. Doesn't really matter what my annual income is, does it. If I can pay cash for the car, I can afford it.

Majikthese42
03-30-2007, 04:55 AM
Some people say real estate is overpriced. Maybe. But you know old saying about the land: they don't make it anymore.

There is a awfully big supply out there, they are still making more of it in Hawaii right now at this very moment! :D

If 40 million US jobs are "offshorable" to India and China, they are surely "onshorable" to South Dakota and Wyoming.

I live in a house, and plan to buy a larger house. If we planned to move to a smaller house, or move to a lower-cost area it would be best if prices continued to go up.

If can write out a check for something, or take the cash out of my wallet, I can afford to buy it. It doesn't matter if it's a car, a house, a stock, college tuition or a pizza dinner. It doesn't matter how much I earn in any given year.

James
03-30-2007, 06:14 AM
There are opportunity costs. If buying your car for cash means you didn't max out your Roth IRA, as an example, then the opportunity cost is lost money at retirement.

Afford means different things to different people. Simply having the cash for something doesn't mean you can afford it and it doesn't mean you can't. Afford is a personal level of comfort in your financial health.

1994_RX-7_Tour
03-30-2007, 07:37 AM
Hey lets have a competition to see who earns the LEAST amount of $$ and still owns a BMW? Now that would be different....

"No - I earn less than you... no I DO!" :lmao:

Typical communication: trying to convince others you're right... fun if you like to argue... e.g. "transmitting"

Atypical communication: seeking to learn other's point of view.... e.g. "receiving"

How about a B-fest gathering competition like this: see whose car is the oldest, rustiest hunk of junk that is still driveable? Would be more interesting than the typical "who's got the coolest MOD or the fastest car"... :bling:

James
03-30-2007, 07:40 AM
How about a B-fest gathering competition like this: see whose car is the oldest, rustiest hunk of junk that is still driveable? Would be more interesting than the typical "who's got the coolest MOD or the fastest car"... :bling:

Now that would be funny :). I'm sure there are some real pieces of work out there! I think there was a thread that someone bought a 325i for $200?

Love that last gen RX7! :thumbup:

ProRail
03-30-2007, 07:58 AM
Hey; this turned out to be a pretty good thread.

Swift
03-30-2007, 08:38 AM
Well my new 07 5'er lease is only costing me $19.90 per month. Strategic incentive planning people.

aficionado
03-30-2007, 10:09 AM
Post 102!!

The title implies that BMW 5 series is some over the top expensive car. But look around, it's NOT.

2008 MSRP 528i is $44,500. In today's world that isn't over the top. Sure it's a few bucks, but a base Honda MiniVan will run ya almost 30K. Load one up and it's going to be over $40K. Same with those four door pickup trucks, you start adding leather, NAV, etc, they all get expessive real fast.

If your buying it, you can afford it. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make your first payment.

I worked the numbers, I can't afford a 7 series and if your on this message board, neither can you. If you couldn't afford a 5 series, you'd be on the 3 series message board.

swchang
03-30-2007, 10:43 AM
Post 102!!

The title implies that BMW 5 series is some over the top expensive car. But look around, it's NOT.

2008 MSRP 528i is $44,500. In today's world that isn't over the top. Sure it's a few bucks, but a base Honda MiniVan will run ya almost 30K. Load one up and it's going to be over $40K. Same with those four door pickup trucks, you start adding leather, NAV, etc, they all get expessive real fast.

If your buying it, you can afford it. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make your first payment.

I worked the numbers, I can't afford a 7 series and if your on this message board, neither can you. If you couldn't afford a 5 series, you'd be on the 3 series message board.

: popcorn:

millergd
03-30-2007, 11:09 AM
How about a B-fest gathering competition like this: see whose car is the oldest, rustiest hunk of junk that is still driveable? Would be more interesting than the typical "who's got the coolest MOD or the fastest car"... :bling:

As profiled in Car & Driver magazine, there is such a thing:
http://www.24hoursoflemons.com


(This race is not held in France)

1994_RX-7_Tour
03-30-2007, 11:21 AM
As profiled in Car & Driver magazine, there is such a thing:
http://www.24hoursoflemons.com


(This race is not held in France)

This is too funny! I love it!

wagonman
03-30-2007, 12:26 PM
Why does anyone care what someone else is making. IF BMW Finance or some other institution was willing to loan them money (or they paid cash) it seems as though they have enough to satisfy some minimum standard of creditworthiness/income.

Plenty of people can afford this or a comparable (price-wise) automobile. Whether they chose to spend their money on it is another issue. The funny part is that many wealthy people wouldn't by this car anyway. Either too many ordinary people can afford it or they just wouldn't spend their money on a depreciating item like this.

There seem to be other things that people should be concerned about rather than if the person driving a car similar to yours is faking. If you are worried about this are you worried about people faking being competent (the President); people faking that they are honest or considerate (look to your local and state governments); or faking that they confident when they are actually insecure and worried about what the person next to them has and how they got it.

I hope that it is not the only one who tends not to sorry about what others have or can afford. I get what satisfies me. Plus, it would be weird to spend my time thinking what others on this or some other message board earns.

In the end, which is more disturbing? The person who is "faking" or the person looking at someone with this or some other relatively expensive automobile and claiming that that person is faking. By the way, does the non-faker have to wear a suit everyday? Are non-fakers in a particular profession or should they have gone to a ranked undergradute anad/or proefessional school? Is the person who buys a demo or a one or two year-old car faking since they didnt pay full price? Perhaps those people who cannot afford or simply chose not to have most or all of the available options are faking. Maybe each person who bought the entry level 5 series or a 3 series is faking.

The fact that someone will forego vacations, take their lunch or what ever they do to purchase what they want is a testiment to their desire and discipline. More power to them. I join each person that believes in fiscal responsibilty is ideal. However, adults make decisons for themselves and get to reap the rewards or burdens that accompany those decisions. My .02 as well. Cheers.

is if you are going to drive around a high end car and think you are cool for doing so BE ABLE TO BACK IT UP WITH NUMBERS! is that so irrational? now, if you are NOT acting cool because of it and do not have the numbers to back it up. that is ok in my book. does this clarify the difference here?

Kroozin
03-30-2007, 12:47 PM
OK, I'll show ALL of my work, for the mathematicly challenged:

60k income------------20% taxes= 12k

net income 48k X .191 = 9,168

Do you need that in bold? :pI didn't read your response right... My mistake.

ihs84
03-30-2007, 12:53 PM
I don't know why it is a big deal when Wagonman just asked a simple question. This is an Internet board, you don't have to agree with everything people post. The reality is too many people are in debt, judging by the average Credit Card debt is around $9K. It all come down to your own value and what is the priority in your life. Around the Bay Area people are making high salary, but the cost of living here is high. I see a a lot of young peple (30's) driving BMW (3 series). But most of them own homes. They move up to 5-series as their family grown and so are their income. Most max out their 401k. They save money and put their kids to private school. To these people including me, instead of spending money on vacation in expensive and exotic place, they spend it on their kids' education first, then themself.

Flee67
03-30-2007, 12:57 PM
If buying your car for cash means you didn't max out your Roth IRA,
Not necessarily true. Also, there are some who don't qualify for the Roth IRA anymore.....

James
03-30-2007, 01:36 PM
Not necessarily true. Also, there are some who don't qualify for the Roth IRA anymore.....

It was a hypothetical example of an opportunity cost ;).

My point was simply that "afford" is relative. I have to show up at the office every day to work (i.e. not a trust fund kid or independently wealthy like Bill Gates). Do I have any business buying a BMW when I have to work for a living? Wouldn't my money be better spent elsewhere? Where do you draw the line?

SSbear44
03-30-2007, 02:03 PM
Post 102!!

I worked the numbers, I can't afford a 7 series and if your on this message board, neither can you. If you couldn't afford a 5 series, you'd be on the 3 series message board.
What if I just don't want a 7 series?? Can I still stay??:eeps:

SSbear44
03-30-2007, 02:07 PM
is if you are going to drive around a high end car and think you are cool for doing so BE ABLE TO BACK IT UP WITH NUMBERS! is that so irrational? now, if you are NOT acting cool because of it and do not have the numbers to back it up. that is ok in my book. does this clarify the difference here?

Why? Why does anyone have to back up anything to anyone?? And why do you care so much about it?? And who is to decides if a person is "able to back it up with numbers", do we empanel a jury? are their objective criteria one has to meet to be able to do so?? Who sets those criteria?? If you are judged unable to do so, can you appeal such a decision??

Majikthese42
03-30-2007, 02:12 PM
i.e. not a trust fund kid or independently wealthy like Bill Gates.

How Bill Gates Works (http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/30/news/newsmakers/gates_howiwork_fortune/)


Days are often filled with meetings. It's a nice luxury to get some time to go write up my thoughts or follow up on meetings during the day. But sometimes that doesn't happen. So then it's great after the kids go to bed to be able to just sit at home and go through whatever e-mail I didn't get to. If the entire week is very busy, it's the weekend when I'll send the long, thoughtful pieces of e-mail. When people come in Monday morning, they'll see that I've been quite busy— they'll have a lot of e-mail.


: popcorn:

(BTW, I don't want to drive an slushbox, can you get the 7-Series with a stick now???)

James
03-30-2007, 02:15 PM
How Bill Gates Works (http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/30/news/newsmakers/gates_howiwork_fortune/)



: popcorn:



He wants to work. I have to work. :mad:.

aficionado
03-30-2007, 02:16 PM
What if I just don't want a 7 series?? Can I still stay??:eeps:

Sure, just make sure you get the best 5 series possible. Oh wait, I see you did. :thumbup:

Someone mentioned faking it a few post back, this, to me, is to funny.

Do people really look at a car and make a jugdement about the driver?

I mean, I see a nice car, I think, nice car. That's pretty much the end of it.

Oh well, I guess I'll just stay here in my bubble, oblivious to all the judgements being made about me. :rofl:

James
03-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Oh well, I guess I'll just stay here in my bubble, oblivious to all the judgements being made about me. :rofl:


That's a good place to be :).

Majikthese42
03-30-2007, 02:56 PM
He wants to work. I have to work. :mad:.

Bill Gates has to work. Warren Buffett has to work.

Gates and Buffett like their work.

If they didn't like their work, a BMW wouldn't make it any better. Trust me.

http://www.hae-dal.com/sajin/2004-8/noye.jpg

stevepow
03-30-2007, 03:17 PM
Why? Why does anyone have to back up anything to anyone?? And why do you care so much about it??

Much more interesting question than the original topic. I wonder does WM drive around looking at other drivers thinking these things about them - prejudging them? Only BMW drivers? Or MB also...and Porsche...what about the struggling family hauling around in a nice new Toyota - does he care if they are stretched to the limit as well??? Why - sympathy or empathy or...?

I just don't get the post.

James
03-30-2007, 03:41 PM
Bill Gates has to work. Warren Buffett has to work.

Gates and Buffett like their work.

If they didn't like their work, a BMW wouldn't make it any better. Trust me.

http://www.hae-dal.com/sajin/2004-8/noye.jpg

I think I used to work in that office :D.

EJSDad
03-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Since we are on the topic of finances. I have a story. I used to have this guy who worked in my department. He bought a $15,000 car for $20,000 at 22.25***37; APR. I told him he was an idiot. He will pay $16,000 in interest over the course of the loan. That's a total of $36,000 for a Mazda 3. I said you could have got a BMW 3 Series for that you jackass. You're paying for a 3 Series but you're driving a Mazda 3. There are people out there that don't even realize when they're getting taken. Bad credit and inexperience is a killer. On a serious note, is there a maximium allowable APR? That APR is ridiculous.

krash
03-30-2007, 05:01 PM
Bill Gates has to work. Warren Buffett has to work.

Gates and Buffett like their work.

If they didn't like their work, a BMW wouldn't make it any better. Trust me.

http://www.hae-dal.com/sajin/2004-8/noye.jpg


Warren Buffet drives around in a 5 year old Cadillac DTS and lives in a very modest house in Omaha, NB.

James
03-30-2007, 06:45 PM
Since we are on the topic of finances. I have a story. I used to have this guy who worked in my department. He bought a $15,000 car for $20,000 at 22.25% APR. I told him he was an idiot. He will pay $16,000 in interest over the course of the loan. That's a total of $36,000 for a Mazda 3. I said you could have got a BMW 3 Series for that you jackass. You're paying for a 3 Series but you're driving a Mazda 3. There are people out there that don't even realize when they're getting taken. Bad credit and inexperience is a killer. On a serious note, is there a maximium allowable APR? That APR is ridiculous.

In housing there are laws for predatory lending however you have to be more devious then simply charging a high APR. 22.25% for a car loan? My goodness, did he borrow from a loan shark? Take a cash advance from his CC? Wow. Just wow.

James
03-30-2007, 06:47 PM
Warren Buffet drives around in a 5 year old Cadillac DTS and lives in a very modest house in Omaha, NB.

One of the founders of Google drove around in a beat up old Civic.

Wealth is attainable when the desire for financial independence is greater then the desire for material goods. We should all be so smart. :eek:

krash
03-30-2007, 07:00 PM
Wealth is attainable when the desire for financial independence is greater then the desire for material goods. We should all be so smart. :eek:

I am going to use that line on my wife. Oh, I forgot, I'm the one that wants a new BMW.

James
03-30-2007, 07:29 PM
I am going to use that line on my wife. Oh, I forgot, I'm the one that wants a new BMW.

For every cliche there is an equal and opposite cliche.

Life is short and you can't take your money with you ;).

Majikthese42
03-30-2007, 07:38 PM
One of the founders of Google drove around in a beat up old Civic.



But they both fly around in a wide-body executive jet!



Wide-Flying Moguls: Google Duo's New Jet Is a Boeing 767-200

By Kevin J. Delaney, J. Lynn Lunsford and Mark Maremont Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Word Count: 1,285 | Companies Featured in This Article: Google, Microsoft

On the road, Sergey Brin and Larry Page have owned environmentally friendly hybrid vehicles such as the Toyota Prius. In the air, they apparently prefer something roomier.

Google Inc.'s two billionaire founders, both 32 years old, will soon be cruising the skies in a Boeing 767 wide-body airliner. They bought the used plane earlier this year, Mr. Page says.

The 767-200, typically an airline workhorse, is an unusual executive jet. It commonly carries about 180 passengers. Delta Air Lines operates over one hundred 767s. The Italian Air Force has ordered a modified 767 as ...


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05308/600836.stm (Free article, WSJ is pay)

"You can live well if you're rich and you can live well if you're poor, but if you're poor, it's much cheaper." - Andrew Tobias

I'd hope that Buffett spends a lot more time in the back of limos than driving around in his old Caddy. His time is too valuable to waste driving himself.

James
03-30-2007, 07:48 PM
Money doesn't buy happiness but neither does poverty. :p

boarder
03-31-2007, 04:32 AM
Here is a demographics report from BMW that is interesting. This is a long thread so I hope this was not already posted and I missed it.

James
03-31-2007, 05:52 AM
Here is a demographics report from BMW that is interesting. This is a long thread so I hope this was not already posted and I missed it.

Good find! :thumbup:

krash
03-31-2007, 06:27 AM
Here is a demographics report from BMW that is interesting. This is a long thread so I hope this was not already posted and I missed it.

Pretty cool.

I would actually like to see a further breakdown of total median family pre-tax income between the following categories: Pre-Family (no children, under 45), Post Family (no children, 45+), Younger Family (olderst child 1-12 yr.) and Older Family (oldest child 13-17 yr.).

Being in the Younger Family category, I think I am qualified to say that having a pre-tax income of $162,000 is not nearly enough to afford a 5 series. Just my opinion...But I think that when you have children, you need to double that in order to afford a 5 series. Again, perhaps it is just a matter of priorities.

On the other hand, I think people in the No Children category could make less than $162,000 and still afford a 5 Series.

I would also be curious see the mean income in addition to the median income.

swchang
03-31-2007, 07:00 AM
Got a similar chart for other cars? 3-series? 7-series?

Swift
03-31-2007, 08:38 AM
Cool demographics chart!

Meiac09
03-31-2007, 11:57 AM
$289/month for a 525xi.
so, $289 per month after taxes +++

Didn't your mother ever tell you its rude to ask how much someone else makes? :rolleyes:

Bart001
03-31-2007, 12:34 PM
i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.

Why? Why do you care?? I know..because YOU have that much money in the bank and don't get the "credit" you deserve because "poorer people" are driving YOUR marque.

Grow the f up.

HGilmore
03-31-2007, 12:37 PM
if one considers that a good job out of college these days pays about 60k annually (am i off here, or is this about right?) and a 5 series is NOT an entry level car, then what is the minimum annual pre-tax income that qualifies a person to actually be legitimately driving one of these cars?
i say minimum is 100k per year. and/or a net worth excluding home of at least three times the purchase price. that means 150k minimum invested assets and/or annual income of 100k. i sincerely hope that most of the owners/lease holders fit within this criteria.
"legitimately driving one of these cars" ??? :rolleyes: I believe that's up to the banks to determine, not someone on a power-trip establishing certain criteria for all of us to live by. Btw, the word legitimate is 100% subjective. You may not think it's legit, but in the individuals eyes whom you are judging, such a purchase is perfectly legitimate.

Who cares what others do with their money, or lack of it, and what purchases they make? Why would anyone spend valuable "time of day" pondering issues that relate to others, in this matter of money? :dunno: The minimum whatever, is up to each individual to determine for themselves. That's the way it works in the US.

James
03-31-2007, 03:08 PM
Here's a gorgeous '03 530i for the price of well equipped Mazda3.

http://tinyurl.com/3bamg6 [ebay.com]

I just picked this one at random. I don't know if it's a good deal or anything about the car so this is not an endorsement for who ever listed it ;).

By the stereotype I'm too young for a 5'er (33) but I could see myself in this car. I have a YZF 600 for my thrills and chills on the track so I don't need that in my car. Swaddle me in luxury :).

James
03-31-2007, 03:11 PM
Here is a demographics report from BMW that is interesting. This is a long thread so I hope this was not already posted and I missed it.

Holly crap, Audi A6 is 96.7***37; white buyers. Wow.

BIG _AL
03-31-2007, 04:13 PM
Hasn't anyone noticed that wagonman has stopped his input into this thread? Why is everyone still adding fuel to this fire. Stop beating this dead horse. It doesn't matter what one person thinks about other people. The important thing is for everyone to make sure they dot their own I(s) and cross there own T(s). I promise you if everyone spend their day ensuring they have all of their affairs together, there won't be any time left to wonder who else can or can't afford a BMW. Wagonman needs to learn to speak positive instead of looking at the negative all the time. He kills the mood of the forum.

shabbaman
04-01-2007, 07:09 AM
Since we are on the topic of finances. I have a story. I used to have this guy who worked in my department. He bought a $15,000 car for $20,000 at 22.25% APR. I told him he was an idiot. He will pay $16,000 in interest over the course of the loan. That's a total of $36,000 for a Mazda 3. I said you could have got a BMW 3 Series for that you jackass. You're paying for a 3 Series but you're driving a Mazda 3. There are people out there that don't even realize when they're getting taken. Bad credit and inexperience is a killer. On a serious note, is there a maximium allowable APR? That APR is ridiculous.

I have a coworker with a similar story. She purchased a 2004 Toyota Matrix when they were just coming out at the end of '03. Last week she was rear ended and the car was totalled out. To make a long story short it turned out that she put $2500 down, took out a 6 year loan on the car at $400 per month but didn't know what her APR was. Even though the insurance pays for replacement value on the car she was still upside down on the loan by about $4000.

jbeene
04-01-2007, 08:05 AM
Thanks for putting in the demographics. The results seem pretty logical.

According to BMW I can still feel good about driving a 5 series and that I'm not "faking it". Except I'm only 37, maybe I should feel guilty because I work too hard, make too much money, have kids/need the space and drive a car for a guy 8 years older than me?

Have to give Wagonman credit for illiciting responses. Very sporting. I can't decide if it is a result of therapy or in lieu of therapy.

mullman
04-01-2007, 08:57 AM
How about a B-fest gathering competition like this: see whose car is the oldest, rustiest hunk of junk that is still driveable? Would be more interesting than the typical "who's got the coolest MOD or the fastest car"... :bling:

How's this?

http://homepage.mac.com/mulls/VESPA/1965%20Vespa%20Sprint_files/IMG_0656.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/mulls/VESPA/1965%20Vespa%20Sprint_files/IMG_0659.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/mulls/VESPA/1965%20Vespa%20Sprint_files/2-full-DSCN0820.jpg

I sold it a few months ago, but it was a fun thing for awhile.

kishg
04-01-2007, 07:15 PM
thats crazy making 150k for a 550i.... than how much for a 750 ...

why crazy? 150k isn't a big income in this day.. esp in any big city, la, nyc etc.

krash
04-01-2007, 07:40 PM
why crazy? 150k isn't a big income in this day.. esp in any big city, la, nyc etc.


Exactly. Again, it all depends on priorities.

chiefwej
04-01-2007, 07:48 PM
OK, I guess I'm just going to have to sell my 5-series. Even though, I paid cash for the car, and have no debt, and significant savings and investments. After reading all this, I just don't have the requisite income to be driving a 5-series.

Do you think, If I liquidated some of my investments to increase my annual revenue, they might let me keep it?

wagonman
04-02-2007, 03:15 PM
then why do my threads garner such huge interest? note: the current one, wagons not selling, why? and others. i do start controversial threads. i admit that. i do it concsiously. the present thread seemed to strike a chord with many. i am not the a---hole i sometimes appear to be. i simply enjoy pressing a "hot" button and seeing where it goes. my issue is not so much with who drives what car and how much they can afford. my issue is how people with money carry themselves. the people i respect have it and dont need to flaunt it. when you see such a person you know it! please do not take offense to my threads. i do it in fun actually. and frankly it is a nice break from everyone telling each other how great their sport package is!

kwilliams
04-02-2007, 04:08 PM
I'm 36...live in my mother's basement....make minimum wage and spend my entire income on my e60 payments......life is good!

Who cares !! lol

btw...i'm just kidding....!:p

krash
04-02-2007, 05:24 PM
my issue is how people with money carry themselves. the people i respect have it and dont need to flaunt it. when you see such a person you know it!

But this an internet forum. A BMW internet forum. More specifically, a BMW 5 Series Subforum.

Generally speaking, people on this subforum are going to be more financially well off than people on most other car forums.

In addition, you really can't tell how people on this forum carry themselves in real life. Not to mention that it is a virtually anonymous. You don't know what they do for a living. You don't know which charities they contribute to. You don't know the size of their homes. You don't know how much money they have in their investment portfolio. You don't know where they vacation, etc.

Most of the people on this forum are likely very successful in their professional careers. They are assertive, well educated, self determined, take initiative, and do the things that are necessary in order to excel in their professional careers. When you have that kind of a mix on a forum like this, there is always going to be some degree of arrogance on display.

But quite honestly, I really don't see much evidence of people bragging about their wealth on this forum anyway. Quite the contrary, most posters have the same concerns of a typical car buyer. Most everyone is concerned about getting the best bang for the buck. They are concerned about getting a fair deal, and many agonize over options and features such as whether or not to get the Nav system, the sport package, multi-contour seats or the 528 instead of the 535. Also, buying a 550i and telling everyone how much they love the sports package isn't necessarily the same as bragging about your financial prowess.

Unless you have some sort of clairvoyance, you really have no idea how people on this forum "carry themselves."

With all that said, you shouldn't spend so much time and energy preaching to everyone on this forum. It is silly. Don't be so quick to judge people. You don't have enough facts to draw any conclusions...

aficionado
04-02-2007, 09:11 PM
Here is a demographics report from BMW that is interesting. This is a long thread so I hope this was not already posted and I missed it.


Looks like the BMW is a real MAN's car. :violent:

Jaguar is a chick car.

As for the Median age, as some have commented about being young, the definition is:

The median is the middle of a distribution: half the scores are above the median and half are below the median.

Per the survey, BMW's have the youngest drivers.

BeBogus
04-03-2007, 12:44 PM
In forums of this nature you find that most of the people in here are enthusiastic about their car. (ie sharing photos and experiences) Others come on here because they are having issues with their car and would like to know if others have experienced similar problems and is it fixable. But the bottom line is that everyone here has an appriciation for cars in general and in particular BMW.

For all practical purposes a car gets you from point A to point B. Doesn't matter if its a Geo Metro or Maybach 62... it serves the same purpose. For someone to justify the purchase of a 60k car over the price of a 20k car that does the same deed is someone who is a car fan (and if it happens to be a BMW then they also have good taste... :P)

If we see someone driving around in a bmw, it really doesn't matter how they got it. I am happy to see they enjoy driving and it isn't a chore of getting from one location to another.
BMW is the ultimate driving machine.

James
04-03-2007, 01:42 PM
In forums of this nature you find that most of the people in here are enthusiastic about their car. (ie sharing photos and experiences) Others come on here because they are having issues with their car and would like to know if others have experienced similar problems and is it fixable. But the bottom line is that everyone here has an appriciation for cars in general and in particular BMW.

For all practical purposes a car gets you from point A to point B. Doesn't matter if its a Geo Metro or Maybach 62... it serves the same purpose. For someone to justify the purchase of a 60k car over the price of a 20k car that does the same deed is someone who is a car fan (and if it happens to be a BMW then they also have good taste... :P)

If we see someone driving around in a bmw, it really doesn't matter how they got it. I am happy to see they enjoy driving and it isn't a chore of getting from one location to another.
BMW is the ultimate driving machine.

:stupid:

I agree except that there are a large number of people that buy the emblem regardless of the car under it. They want to be seen in a BMW even if their only requirements for a car is that it starts and doesn't break before they get to where they are going.

We need more of these people :angel:. They drive the fixed costs per unit of each BMW down and the more money BMW makes the more R&D we'll get :D. If only die-hard enthusiasts drove BMW's a 3-series would cost about $150k. The flip side to this is that as the badge-whore segment grows BMW caters to them and not the enthusiast.

Stuka
04-04-2007, 04:34 PM
One of the founders of Google drove around in a beat up old Civic.

Wealth is attainable when the desire for financial independence is greater then the desire for material goods. We should all be so smart. :eek:

No, it just means that he doesn't care about cars.:rolleyes:

There are quite a few rich guys with fleet of really fast cars (Leno for one), and they do so because they like cars.

I bet the google guy probably spends his $$ on what he's into. Same with everyone else. I know people who spend 10K a month in wine, and they are only worh a few hundred million, small fries compare to Mr. Google, but this guy likes his wine, and he's not shy about paying for it.

if Mr. Google likes cars, you bet he would have already bought a Big Mac, an Enzo, a 430, a 959, etc, and etc.

Stuka
04-04-2007, 04:36 PM
Money doesn't buy happiness but neither does poverty. :p

People who said that about money have never been poor.:rolleyes: :tsk:

Stuka
04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
then why do my threads garner such huge interest? note: the current one, wagons not selling, why? and others. i do start controversial threads. i admit that. i do it concsiously. the present thread seemed to strike a chord with many. i am not the a---hole i sometimes appear to be. i simply enjoy pressing a "hot" button and seeing where it goes. my issue is not so much with who drives what car and how much they can afford. my issue is how people with money carry themselves. the people i respect have it and dont need to flaunt it. when you see such a person you know it! please do not take offense to my threads. i do it in fun actually. and frankly it is a nice break from everyone telling each other how great their sport package is!

This is a car board, people are here because they like cars, and some spend more than they probably should. But so what? Do you think Jay Leno flaunts it? I would say no, because he's a car guy, and he spends his money on cars accordingly.

And really, it's just a 5 series, they are everywhere in LA, seeing as how much subsidy BMW is doing on the leases. Many companies I know have really good car expense incentive for their employees ($750 to 1K a month is not uncommon). 750 to 1K can lease you a lot of car for basically free.

Hell, my staff just leased an 07 328 for $500 tax included for 36 month 15K a year with 0 down. It's basically like driving a BMW for free.

mullman
04-04-2007, 05:45 PM
No, it just means that he doesn't care about cars.:rolleyes:


I concur.

It is just what you are into. And yes, I enjoy reading Leno's column in Popular Mechanics every month - almost always makes me laugh all the cool mechanical things in his garage. If someone wants to live in an apt and drive a 5er more power to them.

At the end of the day everyone makes the bed they lie in so to speak.

Stuka, I'm a Porsche man at heart, my father had a few when I was growing up - your GT2 is very nice.
Everything you need, nothing you dont!

Some people collect watches, wine, jewelry, exotic pets, the list goes on and on. In the end , who cares.

fastdunn
04-05-2007, 01:14 PM
I'm in about top 20***37; income bracket and comfortably
leasing 525i (base, AT only). I have zero debt but nearly zero savings.
(well, it's a long story. I used to have about half million $ but lost it with investment failure).

I used to spend about 1-2***37; of my net income on transportation.
I purchased Honda Accord with cash and drove it over 10 years.
(I still have that Honda as a second car. Still going strong at 200K miles with
original clutch and spring. ).

To my standard, it's quite a bit of over-boarding to lease 525i.
(Well, note that I drove Honda Accord even I had half million$ in cash).
But well, what the hell. I saved so much money with Honda Accord
and I think I deserve some lavish spending for a few years..

James
04-05-2007, 01:33 PM
People who said that about money have never been poor.:rolleyes: :tsk:

It says right in the cliche that poverty doesn't buy happiness :dunno:

James
04-05-2007, 01:35 PM
I bet the google guy probably spends his $$ on what he's into. Same with everyone else. I know people who spend 10K a month in wine, and they are only worh a few hundred million, small fries compare to Mr. Google, but this guy likes his wine, and he's not shy about paying for it.


These people are already financially independent though I take your point that they just spend their money on other things.

chrischeung
04-05-2007, 03:06 PM
If someone wants to live in an apt and drive a 5er more power to them.


Mullman - I'm exactly in that demographic :(.

In the complex I live in, when I moved in 3 years ago, my 2003 325i was top dog in my garage. Now, my 2006 530i shares the same area with a Cayman S, 2007 525i, MB E500 and a E55. Some of our neighbours are still in college, so you can imagine what else is in the garage.

Naturally some of those folks are just remodelling their homes, and need a temporary pad. But I also get the impression that some folks sold their houses, are cashed up, and just hoping for the housing market to dip a little more.