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Loomba
05-07-2007, 09:01 PM
There is some excellent pricing information on these forums, but most of it relates to the US market, where there seems to more competition generally.

I am hoping those that have purchased or leased 5er's in Canada can share their experiences in negotiating price and what a person can reasonably expect to get off of MSRP or above dealer invoice.

I am interested in leasing a 2008 535xi (Sport and Premium Packages, Rear Side Airbags, CD changer, IPod Adapter). MSRP on the website Canadian website with these options is $78,995. I spoke with a salesman at Edmonton BMW in advance of speaking to Calgary BMW. Calgary has two dealerships but both are owned by the same individual, I understand, so there is no real ability to get these two dealerships competing. Edmonton has two dealerships that, I think, are independent of each other (Edmonton BMW and Bavaria BMW).

Here's what I learned from the Edmonton BMW salesperson:

1. MSRP on the website was accurate: $78,995 CDN. GST of 6% is extra.
2. Pricing is the same across Canada (this seems believable).
3. Markup on the 5 Series is about 9% (so "there isn't much room to move...". Yeah, whatever).
4. Freight, delivery etc. charges total about $2500.
5. The salesman offered to take off about $1500 from MSRP. He knew I was going to talk to Calgary BMW and probably the other Edmonton dealership and indicated he could probably do a bit better than that. I didn't talk numbers any further as I was in info gather mode.
6. Going from a 20,000 Km per year lease down to 16,000 Kms saves very little on your monthly payment (about $20 per month).

If the salesperson was honest, 9% markup translates to about $7000 of wiggle room. How much is it reasonable to ask them to eat? I would think splitting the markup in half is more than fair. This would tranlate to about $3500 off MSRP.

I have asked the Calgary dealership to work out a price and will post what they have to say. I am tempted to talk to a dealer in Vancouver or Saskatoon but expect B.C. or Sask. Provincial Sales Tax would apply to that transaction.

I am curious to find out what other people's pricing experiences have been and what deals they were able to negotiate.

TIA

Loomba
05-13-2007, 08:38 PM
A few days after chatting to the Edmonton dealership, I sent an email to the salesperson a Calgary BMW that I have been dealing with the last couple of months and asked him to run the numbers on a 3 year lease with various down payment options (10K and 15K).

I positioned a bit by letting him know in my email that I was still considering an Audi A6 or Volvo S60R (which I was) and that I may compare price with the dealerships in Edmonton. I have been talking about the Audi with him for a while now, as they seem to be BMW's biggest competition. I think this helped in the end. He sent over a price sheet with the lease payment options (10K down / 15K down / 24,000 km per year / 20,000 km per year).

We exchanged a few emails at work as I had a few questions about whether the residual was fixed or could be negotiated. It is fixed, I am told. I also asked about the dealer invoice price and got the same 9***37; markup information but was also told that the first 2% is applied by the dealer to operating costs. Not sure how true that is as the Edmonton BMW guy didn't say anything about this.

We weren't able to connect on the phone as I was busy all week, but he did try to call several times to talk about price and discount. I didn't immediately return his calls mostly because I was busy as heck and I thought I'd not look over-eager to buy.

Yesterday, I gave the BMW Calgary salesperson a call to chat about price. I first inquired about the lease rate (6.9% on the 5 Series) to see if that was negotiable. It is not, I was told. If BMW makes a special offer on the 2008's before I take delivery, I will get the benefit of the lower rate. It never hurts to ask though...

So we got to price. I told him that the guy at Edmonton BMW offered a $1500 discount without me asking for one and also indicated he probably could do better than that, which I said probably meant at least $2500. He seemed fairly concerned that I would buy the car in Edmonton. "We don't want you to go to Edmonton".

The position I took was that we split or "share" the 9% markup - which would tranlate to about $3555 discount off MSRP. This met with some fairly stiff resistance. So we chatted some more and I got him to agree to "share" the 7% (after the 2% op costs portion). We agreed to that and I sign up the paperwork tomorrow, assuming nothing goes sideways with his sales manager.

So in the end, I get about $2765 off of MSRP. Not bad. If I played the dealers off of each other a bit more, I probably could have done a bit better, but only by a few hundred dollars, I suspect. I note that the Edmonton BMW guy tried to call me twice over this weekend, leaving messages on my work voicemail. So there seems to be an ability to play the Edmonton vs. Calgary card.

I also think it is generally harder to get a super deal on the 2008's. You could probably get a better deal more easily on the 2007's or a car on the lot.

Anyways, can't wait for the car to arrive! I hope the foregoing is helpful for anyone else in Alberta or Canada that is negotiating on a 2008.

teep
05-14-2007, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the Canadian news - I will be purchasing in Vancouver, where there are effectively three dealers.

abmw5
05-14-2007, 11:20 PM
See below for wholesale price list vs retail. You should be able to get at least 3% off retail
Wholesale Price Report

2008 BMW 5-Series 4dr Sdn 535xi AWD

4-door Mid-Size Passenger Car

Manufacture warranty
Basic: 4 Years/80,000 km Drivetrain: 4 Years/80,000 km Corrosion: 12 Years/Unlimited km Emissions: 4 Years/80,000 km Roadside Assistance: 4 Years/Unlimited km

Retail Price*
Wholesale Price**

Base
$71,400.00
$64,975.00

Freight
$1,895.00
$1,895.00

Optional equipment selected

FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX (-EXTAX)
$100.00
$100.00

6-SPEED STEPTRONIC AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION W/OD *Mandatory until 09/07* (205)
$0.00
$0.00

DAKOTA LEATHER SEAT TRIM (STD) (LC__)
$0.00
$0.00

SOLID PAINT (STD) (-PT)
$0.00
$0.00

-
TECHNOLOGY PKG -inc: lane departure warning, BMW on-board navigation, voice control, Canada/US navigation DVD, head-up display (REQ: ZWE Premium Pkg) (ZWD)
$4,000.00
$3,640.00

-
PREMIUM PKG -inc: universal garage door opener, auto-dimming pwr folding exterior mirrors, auto-dimming rearview mirror, front comfort seats, heated rear seats, park distance control w/visual display, Logic7 sound system *Replaces sport seats when ordered w/ZWQ M Sport Pkg* (ZWE)
$3,800.00
$3,460.00

-
M SPORT PKG -inc: M aerodynamic pkg, M multi-function leather sport steering wheel, sport seats, anthracite roof liner, 18" x 8" M double spoke alloy wheels (style 135M), P245/40R18 run-flat performance tires, matte black shadow line exterior trim (w/U6__ Nasca Leather REQ: ZWK Premium Pkg) *Deletes compact spare tire* *Deletes heated steering wheel* (ZWQ)
$5,200.00
$4,735.00

-
REAR SEAT SIDE AIRBAGS -inc: pretensioners & occupant detector for rear outboard seating positions (261)
$450.00
$410.00

-
HEAD-UP DISPLAY (610)
$1,500.00
$1,365.00

-
6-DISC CD CHANGER (672)
$795.00
$725.00

-
USB AUDIO INTEGRATION (6FL)
$350.00
$320.00

-
PWR REAR SUNSHADE W/MANUAL SIDE SUNSHADES (ZEC)
$590.00
$540.00

Totals including all items above
$90,080.00
$82,165.00

*Retail Price - Also referred to as the M.S.R.P. or Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price or Retail Factory Price. The price the dealer wants you to pay.

** Wholesale Price - Also referred to as the Dealer Invoice Price, Dealer Factory Price or Dealer Cost. The price the dealer pays for the car, before adjusting for any applicable Factory Incentives. To start your negotiations, take this number, add a fair dealer markup/profit (3%-6% on most cars) and deduct any applicable factory incentive below.

boutner
08-17-2007, 11:17 AM
Are you sure about both the Calgary BMW dealerships being owned by the same person/company?

ademitt
08-17-2007, 12:21 PM
Yes.

lubbock57
08-18-2007, 08:26 PM
Your note has been quite a help as regards looking for negotiating room in Calgary and Edmonton. I've been researching pricing in Edmonton and in the US on 535/550to get a complete comparison and the differences between the two are staggering.
But I seem to be getting conflicting information from the US side as to whether I can actually buy the car in the US (Texas) and export to Canada. One dealer says yes and the other says I can't.
Did you investigate US purchase at all and if so, any findings?
I did contact BMWNA and they said any exported BMW from the US to Canada would nullify the maintenance program and the road side assistance, having to purchase separately once in Alberta.
It does seem odd that they would not honour the road side assistance seeing as it is good for the US as well as Canada when travelling.

JB

bhorne
08-19-2007, 10:45 PM
I tried to negotiate a deal with the Edmonton dealer and could not get the deal I wanted, so I purchased in the US.

I found that a US BMW dealer WILL NOT knowingly sell a new BMW to someone that is going to import it to Canada. Apparently they can have their franchise taken away if they do. BMWNA is very strict in this regard.

I ended up purchasing a 18 month old car from a Mercedes dealer. I saved a bundle. It was about $30,000 off the purchase price of a new car, after everything was taken into account (duty 6%, import fees etc.).

lubbock57
08-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Seems odd that BMWNA did not try and disuade me from buying stateside vs Canada, they made no mention at all.
How far south did you travel and did the dealer assist in any way with paperwork for the border?

JB

frank970
08-20-2007, 12:19 PM
I recently ordered a BMW 535 MSport in Vancouver. I was able to negotiate a $3150 reduction from a $78,750 MSRP. I paid $2195 for Dealer prep. I went in knowing I would be doing a factory order with exactly the options I wanted. I was a 'mobile' customer and could just as easily gone to the other dealers in Vancouver. The $3150 is 4% off MSRP. I was told that profit for dealer is 8% so we split the difference.

lubbock57
08-20-2007, 05:46 PM
How did you go about temporary registration to drive it in the US? I am planning on buying in Texas while visiting and driving back. I can get a 3 day or 6 day temporary, plenty to get me back to Alberta but if it's easier closer to the border I may consider that route.

bhorne
08-20-2007, 09:48 PM
I picked up the car in North Carolina. The dealer provided temporary tags for 30 days.

There are a few things you need to do. Search the net for information (there is brochure from the Canadian Government about it), but essentially here are a few things you need.

Get a "recall" letter to verify there are no recalls on the car. Call BMWNA, they will provide almost instantly. All recalls must be taken care of before you can license the car. It is best to have the recalls done by a US dealer.

Send a copy of the title to the US border crossing 3 days in advance of crossing. (it has to be sent to the actual location where you are crossing).

The one thing you'll need to have done, is activate the Daytime Running Lights. Bavaria said it would be not be a problem to do, but they had allot of problems. I suggest you get it done in the states before you bring the car into Canada. I suspect the problem Bavaria had, had something to do with incompatible software.

Pay 6% duty, and 6% GST at the border. They take a credit card. Have lots of documentation when you hit the border. The border agents thought I was trying to cheat them, and even went as far as saying I had forged documents. I did not!

Once back in Canada, you will get some paperwork in the mail from RIV about a week after you cross the border. You need to take this and the car to Canadian Tire who will make sure the recall letter is clear and you have the daytime running lights activated.

Once you have the stamp from Canadian Tire you can get your Canadian registration and plates.

Overall it is a bit of work, but a learning experience. I plan to do it again next winter.

neill
08-20-2007, 11:14 PM
I ended up purchasing a 18 month old car from a Mercedes dealer. I saved a bundle. It was about $30,000 off the purchase price of a new car, after everything was taken into account (duty 6%, import fees etc.).

Just curious - is the car you bought the 06 530i in your sig? How many miles on it?

bhorne
08-21-2007, 03:26 AM
It had 25,000 miles when I picked it up last February. One of the reasons why it was a good deal (just above U.S. black book value) was that it has a manual transmission. This is what I was looking for; however the dealer said that they had a hard time selling it. It was on their lot for 90 days, so it was going to be sent to auction. The car was in imaculate condition with no accidents.

whitez
08-21-2007, 07:35 AM
I don't know if any of you are interested in Canada about this vehicle but I am selling my brand new 2008 528 XI due to the desire to purchase an X5. I live in Lewiston, N.Y. which is (2) minutes from the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge that connects Canada to the US. I don't know if this will help you but please call or email me if I can be of assistance.

2008 BMW 528 XI ... Space Gray Exterior ... Black Leather Interior ... Premium Package ... Cold Weather Package ... Navigation ... 4 Wheel Drive ... Only 250 Miles ... Full 4 Year Warranty & 4 Year BMW Maintenance FREE ... Brand New ... Showroom Condition ... Save $15,000 BELOW Dealer's MSRP ...Selling for ONLY $56,500 Firm. Serious Inquiries Only ... Please Call: >>> 1-716-297-5847 << or e-mail at pwd3@verizon.net

grover432
08-21-2007, 09:08 PM
I negotiated 6% off msrp on a 2008 535xi with Premium, Msport, Technology, USB and Sun Shades. The dealer has 9% plus I believe they get another 2% incentive for a perfect delivery survey. The dealer didn't want to go 6%, but gave in.

In the end, after looking at the US car prices for the same car $about $14,000CAD), I decided to look for a slightly sed (less than 5,000) 2007 Porsche 911 Coupe. If I find what 'm looking for I'll buy it. If not I'll take the 6% deal on the Canadian BMW. By he way, not only are Canadian lease rates higher (along with the purchase price), but the reiduals are quite a bit lower as well. Way to treat Canadians, BMW.

jbeene
08-22-2007, 08:42 AM
Yes, BMW Canada has completely ignored the change in the exchange rate in their pricing as well.

Even if they average the exchange over 12 months they are picking our pockets.

lubbock57
08-22-2007, 10:42 AM
If they are daring us or thinking we're too lazy to consider going to the US because it's too difficult they are mistaken. More and more people are considering the US when looking for new and used cars because of the exchange rate. The import duty does not apply to many vehicles and those are the ones that are a real steal in the US.

But even throwing in the 6.1 % import duty on a new or used BMW, I'll still save thousands.

Has anyone ever asked a Canadian BMW dealer to import a new car for them from the US? Just curious if they'll pass along any of the savings.

jbeene
08-22-2007, 11:13 AM
Brian Jessel BMW in Vancouver openly advertises "USA Imports" on their used car web-site.

Funny thing, all they seem to bring in is Z4's as they don't have the 6.1% duty on them because they are MADE IN THE USA.

There are a number of people in Calgary that make a living importing cars from the USA for people. In particular Audis and Porsches. Must drive the dealers nuts.

lubbock57
08-22-2007, 11:56 AM
The dealers (and BMWNA) are creating the market for the importers with their Canadian pricing schedules.

jcl10
08-22-2007, 02:28 PM
Has anyone ever asked a Canadian BMW dealer to import a new car for them from the US? Just curious if they'll pass along any of the savings.

It would violate their dealer agreement. Besides, they don't buy their cars from BMWNA, they buy them from BMW Canada, a separate company.

jcl10
08-22-2007, 02:30 PM
Brian Jessel BMW in Vancouver openly advertises "USA Imports" on their used car web-site.

Funny thing, all they seem to bring in is Z4's as they don't have the 6.1% duty on them because they are MADE IN THE USA.

I think that they also bring in X5s, for the same reason.

animaspartan
11-14-2007, 04:17 PM
See below for wholesale price list vs retail. You should be able to get at least 3% off retail
Wholesale Price Report

2008 BMW 5-Series 4dr Sdn 535xi AWD

4-door Mid-Size Passenger Car

Manufacture warranty
Basic: 4 Years/80,000 km Drivetrain: 4 Years/80,000 km Corrosion: 12 Years/Unlimited km Emissions: 4 Years/80,000 km Roadside Assistance: 4 Years/Unlimited km

Retail Price*
Wholesale Price**

Base
$71,400.00
$64,975.00

Freight
$1,895.00
$1,895.00

Optional equipment selected

FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX (-EXTAX)
$100.00
$100.00

6-SPEED STEPTRONIC AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION W/OD *Mandatory until 09/07* (205)
$0.00
$0.00

DAKOTA LEATHER SEAT TRIM (STD) (LC__)
$0.00
$0.00

SOLID PAINT (STD) (-PT)
$0.00
$0.00

-
TECHNOLOGY PKG -inc: lane departure warning, BMW on-board navigation, voice control, Canada/US navigation DVD, head-up display (REQ: ZWE Premium Pkg) (ZWD)
$4,000.00
$3,640.00

-
PREMIUM PKG -inc: universal garage door opener, auto-dimming pwr folding exterior mirrors, auto-dimming rearview mirror, front comfort seats, heated rear seats, park distance control w/visual display, Logic7 sound system *Replaces sport seats when ordered w/ZWQ M Sport Pkg* (ZWE)
$3,800.00
$3,460.00

-
M SPORT PKG -inc: M aerodynamic pkg, M multi-function leather sport steering wheel, sport seats, anthracite roof liner, 18" x 8" M double spoke alloy wheels (style 135M), P245/40R18 run-flat performance tires, matte black shadow line exterior trim (w/U6__ Nasca Leather REQ: ZWK Premium Pkg) *Deletes compact spare tire* *Deletes heated steering wheel* (ZWQ)
$5,200.00
$4,735.00

-
REAR SEAT SIDE AIRBAGS -inc: pretensioners & occupant detector for rear outboard seating positions (261)
$450.00
$410.00

-
HEAD-UP DISPLAY (610)
$1,500.00
$1,365.00

-
6-DISC CD CHANGER (672)
$795.00
$725.00

-
USB AUDIO INTEGRATION (6FL)
$350.00
$320.00

-
PWR REAR SUNSHADE W/MANUAL SIDE SUNSHADES (ZEC)
$590.00
$540.00

Totals including all items above
$90,080.00
$82,165.00

*Retail Price - Also referred to as the M.S.R.P. or Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price or Retail Factory Price. The price the dealer wants you to pay.

** Wholesale Price - Also referred to as the Dealer Invoice Price, Dealer Factory Price or Dealer Cost. The price the dealer pays for the car, before adjusting for any applicable Factory Incentives. To start your negotiations, take this number, add a fair dealer markup/profit (3%-6% on most cars) and deduct any applicable factory incentive below.


Hello,

I was wondering where you got this information, as I am planning to buy a BMW soon and this is really helpful.

Thanks