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mgkaplan
05-14-2007, 12:33 AM
I will be taking delivery of my 2008 535i later this week.

What should I be doing to ensure proper break in?

vern
05-14-2007, 06:26 AM
I will be taking delivery of my 2008 535i later this week.

What should I be doing to ensure proper break in?
Go by what it tells you in the manual and you won't go wrong. I've done this on all my BMW's and NEVER had a problem with any of them. Good luck
cheers
vern

love330i
05-22-2007, 05:54 PM
Common questions! Drive slow as possible break in 1200 miles! Do you have a manual when you bought BMW bimmer baby? So many silly people this questions?

love330i
05-22-2007, 05:56 PM
Maybe this BMW owner is woman driver! An unexpience driver ask this questions?

citygirl
05-22-2007, 06:59 PM
Maybe this BMW owner is woman driver! An unexpience driver ask this questions?

What's wrong with you, you freakin, smug little jerk??? You think because someone's female they can't read. What a flaming a-hole!

Give the guy a break. He's excited to be taking delivery on his car and he's asking a legitimate question. Just back off and take your rather high opinion of yourself with you when you go!

wag-zhp
05-22-2007, 08:45 PM
I think I may have seen a thread on this topic before. You might try a search... ;)

wag-zhp
05-22-2007, 08:59 PM
Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204504&highlight=break-in+period
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204680&highlight=break-in+period
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199786&highlight=break-in+period
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190396&highlight=break-in+period
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179774&highlight=break-in+period
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170653&highlight=break-in+period
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176730&highlight=break-in+period

ExGMan
05-23-2007, 08:57 AM
I will be taking delivery of my 2008 535i later this week.

What should I be doing to ensure proper break in?

First thing I'd do is drive slowly home from the dealer, bring the manual inside, get a cool one or two and read it cover to cover. There's a lot of good information in there.

Generally, however, I believe the manual will tell you to keep the engine under 4,000 RPM for the first 1200 miles, and to drive varying speeds (avoiding a steady, say 65 mph) for that first 1200 miles. BMWCCA technical guru Mike Miller offered his ideas on the subject recently (if I can find his references I'll post them), but he suggests the best way to break in a new engine is to do as much of the break-in as possible in moutainous terrain. I believe the idea is to stress the engine in varying ways. If you're in Kansas, you're out of luck, however. With the N54 engine with the twin turbos, there may be another suggestion in the manual regarding letting the engine idle for a period at the end of a drive to let the turbos be cooled down by the circulating engine oil.

Another thing Mike Miller suggests is changing the engine oil, transmission fluid, and differential (and if pertinent) transfer case oils at 1200 miles. The theory is to get all of the little metal bits out of the system. Some will regard that recommendation as overly conservative, especially if the E60 is leased or will be traded at less than 100K on the odo.;)

DBU
05-23-2007, 12:20 PM
I believe the "mountain driving" break-in is based on the idea that it helps the piston rings set properly if the car is also driven in conditions which allow you to use the engine's braking power (downhill - no throttle). I would add that the OP try and avoid high torque accelerations. Down shift instead - higher RPM is better than high torque. Consider driving the car in Sport mode, but gently.

juventus
06-21-2007, 08:50 AM
First thing I'd do is drive slowly home from the dealer, bring the manual inside, get a cool one or two and read it cover to cover. There's a lot of good information in there.

Generally, however, I believe the manual will tell you to keep the engine under 4,000 RPM for the first 1200 miles, and to drive varying speeds (avoiding a steady, say 65 mph) for that first 1200 miles. BMWCCA technical guru Mike Miller offered his ideas on the subject recently (if I can find his references I'll post them), but he suggests the best way to break in a new engine is to do as much of the break-in as possible in moutainous terrain. I believe the idea is to stress the engine in varying ways. If you're in Kansas, you're out of luck, however. With the N54 engine with the twin turbos, there may be another suggestion in the manual regarding letting the engine idle for a period at the end of a drive to let the turbos be cooled down by the circulating engine oil.

Another thing Mike Miller suggests is changing the engine oil, transmission fluid, and differential (and if pertinent) transfer case oils at 1200 miles. The theory is to get all of the little metal bits out of the system. Some will regard that recommendation as overly conservative, especially if the E60 is leased or will be traded at less than 100K on the odo.;)

Interesting. Changing all fluids at 1200 miles. Wonder how much that would cost.

And I thought we were supposed to drive in D mode

Zed2Zee
06-21-2007, 09:00 AM
I have seen this debate so many times and after thoroughly researching and talking to bmw techs and service people the break in is B.S-cars off the line are pushed to full revs and taken up to high speed to test things out.

Nor do the way the cars are constructe any longer require seating of piston rings-that is not applicable to bmw engines

Bottom line-drive it like ya stole it off the lot-I guess unless you plan to keep this car for 10 years-but even then I would highly doubt a break in makes one ounce of preventitve difference

juventus
06-21-2007, 09:35 AM
I have seen this debate so many times and after thoroughly researching and talking to bmw techs and service people the break in is B.S-cars off the line are pushed to full revs and taken up to high speed to test things out.

Nor do the way the cars are constructe any longer require seating of piston rings-that is not applicable to bmw engines

Bottom line-drive it like ya stole it off the lot-I guess unless you plan to keep this car for 10 years-but even then I would highly doubt a break in makes one ounce of preventitve difference

Hmmm. Not trying to argue but my car only had one mile on at delivery. Does that mean it was not tested?

a72
06-21-2007, 10:05 AM
Not all cars are tested, it's impossible - the BMW is mass produced car - they perform a routine QA approach for singling out cars for test driving. Furthermore you have no way of knowing if your car was subjected to a test drive as the manufacturer will re-set the computer. I have to agree with the previous post concerning break in not mattering as these engines are fully balanced and high precision machines. In fact most of BMW's proportional investment (aside from the subframe/chassis investment) goes into the engine, which is probably why it's inline 6 is arguably the best in the world. Also FWIW ferrari do test drive each car they manufacture, that's mainly b/c the annual production is only about 2000 cars - they fully push them and burn a lot of tire rubber in the process. Do you here of ferrari owners complaining that they purchased oil burning, power starved, warn out cars? I maybe wrong but I really doubt it.

stream
06-21-2007, 10:37 AM
I've seen this topic debated many, many times--on this and many other car forums (Porsche, MB/AMG, etc.).

My view is you should follow the manufacturer's break in procedure. Why would they outline a break in procedure if it weren't necessary? I suppose the "drive it like you stole it" mentality could be understood if you're leasing, but even then why invite potentially more inconvenient service trips to the dealer?

It's not just the engine that benefits from this--it's the entire drive train that needs to go through the wear in process and heat cycling so they "play well" together. And don't forget that new tires take a few hundred miles before they reach their full traction potential (the injection molding release agent is very slippery--by design).

I've been to the Porsche factory and seen them hand build the engines and then exercise each of them on a bench, and seen the new cars being test driven on the roads around Stuttgart. And yes, Ferrari does take each car on the track in Maranello and push them. But those drives are for a few miles, and also on cars with engines & drive trains that are--let's face it--in a different league (OK--in this group that's admittedly leading with one's chin... ;)). But even Porsche has a break in period, as does AMG. And I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari did as well.

And I always have the oil/filter changed at around 2,000 miles to get rid of the break in stuff.

Zed2Zee
06-21-2007, 10:40 AM
Sorry I typed that too quickly-I did not mean every single car was tested obviously but I am sure the sample size is relatively large and what I meant was the fact that they can take a car off the line and push it hard to test the specs means that it comes off the line to be pushed.

I mean dont be stupid. I would give the thing a hundred miles or something of normal driving before I peeled out of the lot flooring it to 100. Parts need to warm up and all but the break-in period traditionally and was done to actually seat the piston rings and other parts into the proper place before too much force was put on them. ALl the parts in a bimmer are properly set in place and the 100 miles of warm up is simply to get the nuts and bolts churning a little bit but none of this 1200 mile crap.

Its your car but I promise you it will change nothing.

MacHappy
06-21-2007, 01:48 PM
Took delivery a couple days ago and I'm enjoying my new ride. I was surprised the first scheduled maintenance is in 1 year or 15000 miles. Yikes. I have a hard time believing it isn't better for the car to change the oil more often, especially that first time a couple of you have suggested -- about 2000 miles. So BMW won't do this? I know we can pay for it ourselves but doesn't that make the 4 year, 50,000 maintenance included a bit misleading?

Zed2Zee
06-21-2007, 02:56 PM
Well that 1 year or 15k miles is talking pretty casual, non-aggressive driving. It starts that way but if you do any spirited driving-it will drop. I drove my car hard as can be driven for a 530 and mine was giving me an oil change indicator at 10-11k miles. It reads how you are driving and then adapts to tell you when to take it in.

So if you drive like a grandpa then yes 15k but if you got a 535 I am expecting you drive somewhat spirited so expect sooner

a72
06-21-2007, 03:09 PM
I agree with Stream too. Even though modern BMW engines are well engineered I personally wouldn't push the car too hard (plus I respect the vehicle) and even then its not a binary thing either; by that I mean after 2000 miles don't just thrash the engine do it slowly.

My BMW is the same story no oil change for 15,000. But after 6,500 the oil light came on and it needed another quart. I spoke to the service tech about this who informed me that this was normal, in fact I was third in line as two others were there for the same reason. Apparently the engine will burn oil, expect it, and the rate it burns at depends on how hard you rev it. My Dad thinks modern engines should no longer burn oil - but that's another story, he drives a modern Audi with a V8 and it does not experience oil loss.

stream
06-21-2007, 03:17 PM
Took delivery a couple days ago and I'm enjoying my new ride. I was surprised the first scheduled maintenance is in 1 year or 15000 miles. Yikes. I have a hard time believing it isn't better for the car to change the oil more often, especially that first time a couple of you have suggested -- about 2000 miles. So BMW won't do this? I know we can pay for it ourselves but doesn't that make the 4 year, 50,000 maintenance included a bit misleading?

I strongly recommend having the oil/filter changed at 2,000 miles--it's a small price to pay.

The BMW maintenance on E60 cars is activity based (not mileage based, rather based on the type of driving you do--driving style, average speed, trip duration, etc.). My first 2 BMW paid oil/filter changes were at 11,000 and 22,000 miles. I paid for the 2,000 change, and for the 2 interim changes.

The first Porsche I owned (in 1989) included all fluids changed gratis at 2,000 miles. BTW--they don't do that anymore...

Richard in NC
06-21-2007, 04:57 PM
BMW ///M models do require more care when breaking in. The engines do run better and burn less oil when not abused when new. ///M models do get a 1200 mile inspection as well. They change the rear diff fluid and the engine oil if requested. Also the one poster is right, the break in is about the whole drivetrain, not just the engine. I personally follow break in recommendations but do push the car every once in a while once past 100 miles or so.

BTW, BMW does test the cars before leaving the factory. I took the plant tour in Spartanburg. They strap the cars to a dyno and run the car through a simulated 10 mile drive. They go up and down through the gears a few times and vary the engine speed alot. I don't recall if it hits redline and I don't recall if its every car.

juventus
06-21-2007, 07:02 PM
How much does the oil change and changing the other fluids cost?

Thanks in advance.

iversonm
06-21-2007, 07:35 PM
What's wrong with you, you freakin, smug little jerk??? You think because someone's female they can't read. What a flaming a-hole!

Give the guy a break. He's excited to be taking delivery on his car and he's asking a legitimate question. Just back off and take your rather high opinion of yourself with you when you go!

+10

Next time, don't hold back.

stream
06-21-2007, 08:39 PM
How much does the oil change and changing the other fluids cost?

Thanks in advance.

I paid around $120 for oil/filter change. Didn't have other fluids changed.

abe
06-21-2007, 08:55 PM
Look, how many people have purchased brand-new BMW's, drove them like they were stolen, as they say, and kept it past 100K miles? Any problems??

For people who are leasing, shuddup. :p j/k

DBU
06-21-2007, 09:33 PM
Not all cars are tested, it's impossible - the BMW is mass produced car - they perform a routine QA approach for singling out cars for test driving. Furthermore you have no way of knowing if your car was subjected to a test drive as the manufacturer will re-set the computer. I have to agree with the previous post concerning break in not mattering as these engines are fully balanced and high precision machines. In fact most of BMW's proportional investment (aside from the subframe/chassis investment) goes into the engine, which is probably why it's inline 6 is arguably the best in the world. Also FWIW ferrari do test drive each car they manufacture, that's mainly b/c the annual production is only about 2000 cars - they fully push them and burn a lot of tire rubber in the process. Do you here of ferrari owners complaining that they purchased oil burning, power starved, warn out cars? I maybe wrong but I really doubt it.

You have obviously not taken a BMW factory tour. The final stop at the Munich (3-series built there) factory tour is the test area. EACH AND EVERY 3-series is "driven" on a dyno for 7 - 10 minutes. There is a TV screen that gives instructions to the test technician and he goes through all the motions from behind the wheel. This test include speeds up to about 100 MPH if I remember right. Interestingly, the engine is basically cold (fired for the first time when it drives into the dyno chamber). The final step in this test is an automatic reset of the odometer before the car is driven out of the assembly building.

While the cars are driven relatively hard during the test, it is at VARIED speeds/loads. Makes all the difference.

As for break-in, I believe a good break-in contributes to low oil consumption and good gas mileage. My 530 was broken in properly before I opened it up on the Autobahn after 1200 miles. I had it up at 140 MPH several times and put a total of 3,000 miles on the car in Europe. She has had her first oil change (after 12 months/16,000 miles and has never needed an extra quart(!) although I was down two green bars. Freeway mileage (LA to SF is 29+ MPG, around town in LA abt 23 MPG - mostly moderate driving.

Someone mentioned breaking the car in during mountain driving. This is a good idea simply because you also use the engine to break when going downhill. This helps seat the piston rings "both ways." I also believe that high torque is to be avoided. Higher RPM is better than higher tourque during break-in. Drive the car moderately at varying speeds and loads in DS mode during break-in.

Zed2Zee
06-22-2007, 07:21 AM
Seriously I have heard about enough of this "seating" bmw rings as I can bare-especially with this last poster supposedly mr. knowitallbmw with his experience at the plant-If you paid attention or know a hint of anything about the construction of their motors-or even what "seating" -you would know there is no such thing required.

I floored my 07 530 off the lot, floored it every second of the first 7k miles and at 14k never needed anything except the first oil change. Mileage is as bmw listed-and runs perfeclty. Break in is not necessary on these cars

vern
06-22-2007, 07:53 AM
Seriously I have heard about enough of this "seating" bmw rings as I can bare-especially with this last poster supposedly mr. knowitallbmw with his experience at the plant-If you paid attention or know a hint of anything about the construction of their motors-or even what "seating" -you would know there is no such thing required.

I floored my 07 530 off the lot, floored it every second of the first 7k miles and at 14k never needed anything except the first oil change. Mileage is as bmw listed-and runs perfeclty. Break in is not necessary on these cars
Just curious, are you a engineer in BMW combustible engines ?. You seem to dispute the good information posted by others. I'm not a engineer but IMO go by the Manual and you won't go wrong. I did 2 ED's and had the 530i up to 120 mph and the X3 110mpg but still going by what is outlined in the Manual and haven't had a problem with either one of them.
The other BMW's I've own I never had a problem with them either,never had them over 100mph before the 1200 miles but still went by what is outline in the Manual for Break In.
cheers
vern

stevepow
06-22-2007, 08:47 AM
Read the manual for the break-in procedure. It covers tires and other things also. As for debating if it is needed or not, what's up with that? :dunno: Is there a good reason not to do it? I think that is a better question.

And to citygirl - excellent point - you rock! :thumbup:

a72
06-22-2007, 08:59 AM
DBU thanks for this good post. No I've not been to the factory in Munich just to the neighbouring BMW Museum right by the Olympiastadion, but this was some time ago (12yrs back). They showed a brief video of the factory process and yes cars are placed on a rolling road/dyno - by testing each car I just mean't someone actually taking the car out for a test drive. However I read that the US Spartanburg factory has just invested in a track I guess to address many such issues, see link:
http://www.bmwusfactory.com/education/RD/itrc.asp

BIGGY
06-22-2007, 09:38 AM
Just curious, are you a engineer in BMW combustible engines ?. You seem to dispute the good information posted by others. I'm not a engineer but IMO go by the Manual and you won't go wrong. I did 2 ED's and had the 530i up to 120 mph and the X3 110mpg but still going by what is outlined in the Manual and haven't had a problem with either one of them.
The other BMW's I've own I never had a problem with them either,never had them over 100mph before the 1200 miles but still went by what is outline in the Manual for Break In.
cheers
vern

I race motorcycles. My owners manual which was written by engineers and whoever else tells me to shift from first to second on my race bike at around 7mph. By the time I'm doing 45 I'm in 6th gear on a motorcycle that redlines at 12500 or so rpm's and doing 2500rpm's. Tell me that the engineers are giving the best situation for the bike or simply the safest.

And that's what you get in your manual. It tells you the way to play it safe. And not just safe, but way way way below the safe zone. They can't tell you to shift at higher points or wait 15,000 before changing your oil because the safe thing to do and to avoid legal troubles is to tell you everything at low levels. I think BMW and anyone else would get into a fair amount of legal trouble if they told folks to go take cars up and down the full spectrum because no doubt guys would go on the highway at blazing speeds and then slow down to dangerous speeds using engine breaking. Not to mention, your tires and brakes really do take a few miles before they are at 100%, so telling someone to go out and redline is just asking for problems.

So the folks who write the manuals are not writing them to protect the car, I doubt they care very much about it. They care more about you and others on the road as well as covering their legal asses. My old motorcycle manual advised to never take the motorcycles above 100mph blah blah blah. Guess those engineers know something I don't as I crossed the finish line at Grattan Raceway nearing 170.

You manual is good for telling you how to use the features of the car, and the safest bets for everything else mechanical or maintenance related to the car.

BIGGY
06-22-2007, 09:46 AM
Read the manual for the break-in procedure. It covers tires and other things also. As for debating if it is needed or not, what's up with that? :dunno: Is there a good reason not to do it? I think that is a better question.

And to citygirl - excellent point - you rock! :thumbup:

Now I read the study a while ago and it was done on motorcycles, so take it as you may. It basically compared motorcycles that were broken in with the idea of riding them to the limits right away vs following break-in procedures per manual instructions.

Dyno'ing the variety of bikes they found that the ones ridden to above the stated recommendations in the manual had better HP and torque curves across the board. Not by much, but the difference was there. The engines broken in per the manuals were generally weaker. I'd have to dig it up, again as it's been about 5 or 6 years since I read the article. I understand that car engines are different, but I would imagine that the idea is the same. To me it seems that the safer bet is to ride the car to it's limits, but to do it gradually. So not peel out and floor it right away, but let the vehicle warm up, and gradually take it towards redline and down via engine breaking, cycle that about 7 times. I should really check up when I go pick up my 335 and see how their engines work...for all I know, there may be no break in necessary at all.

stream
06-22-2007, 09:57 AM
Guess those engineers know something I don't as I crossed the finish line at Grattan Raceway nearing 170.


OMG!!!!! :yikes:

vern
06-22-2007, 11:42 AM
I race motorcycles. My owners manual which was written by engineers and whoever else tells me to shift from first to second on my race bike at around 7mph. By the time I'm doing 45 I'm in 6th gear on a motorcycle that redlines at 12500 or so rpm's and doing 2500rpm's. Tell me that the engineers are giving the best situation for the bike or simply the safest.

And that's what you get in your manual. It tells you the way to play it safe. And not just safe, but way way way below the safe zone. They can't tell you to shift at higher points or wait 15,000 before changing your oil because the safe thing to do and to avoid legal troubles is to tell you everything at low levels. I think BMW and anyone else would get into a fair amount of legal trouble if they told folks to go take cars up and down the full spectrum because no doubt guys would go on the highway at blazing speeds and then slow down to dangerous speeds using engine breaking. Not to mention, your tires and brakes really do take a few miles before they are at 100%, so telling someone to go out and redline is just asking for problems.

So the folks who write the manuals are not writing them to protect the car, I doubt they care very much about it. They care more about you and others on the road as well as covering their legal asses. My old motorcycle manual advised to never take the motorcycles above 100mph blah blah blah. Guess those engineers know something I don't as I crossed the finish line at Grattan Raceway nearing 170.

You manual is good for telling you how to use the features of the car, and the safest bets for everything else mechanical or maintenance related to the car.
To each his own. I sure as hell won't take the word of some one I don't know,(16 posts) over whats in the owners Manual about break in . It works for me and I'll stay with it.Again,to each his uwn.
cheers
vern

BIGGY
06-22-2007, 11:46 AM
To each his own. I sure as hell won't take the word of some one I don't know,(16 posts) over whats in the owners Manual about break in . It works for me and I'll stay with it.Again,to each his uwn.
cheers
vern

Absolutely. And the number of posts really shouldn't matter. Just because someone has 10,000 posts here doesn't make them any more knowledgeable than anyone else. Not to mention, for those with no interest in racing, a weaker or tighter engine is meaningless.

BIGGY
06-22-2007, 11:49 AM
OMG!!!!! :yikes:

It's motorcycles. The speeds feel much slower than in a car. :)

http://images17.fotki.com/v349/photos/1/101317/2816904/track1-vi.jpg

vern
06-22-2007, 12:29 PM
Absolutely. And the number of posts really shouldn't matter. Just because someone has 10,000 posts here doesn't make them any more knowledgeable than anyone else..
No it shouldn't but it sure givs you a feel for the person thats doing the posting.
cheers
vern