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DynoQueen
07-19-2007, 10:32 PM
Dynoed a friend's MT 335 sedan a few days ago. Put down 284whp, but we didn't have time to get the rpm pickup to work so there is no torque number. By my calculations, the torque could be over 300 around 3000rpms. We just wanted to get some baseline runs before we start development on a cold air intake system. Hopefully we'll have some results soon.

http://www.vr6dynos.com/eric24v/335dynostock.jpg

Tis was in 4th gear. 3k rpms was about 62mph.

Terry @ BMS
07-19-2007, 11:32 PM
Very cool! Can't wait to see the intake results.

BIMMERUSAM5
07-20-2007, 09:48 AM
Thats some nice numbers for a stock car.

Emission
07-20-2007, 02:06 PM
So, what is the estimate for HP at the crank then?

franka
07-20-2007, 05:58 PM
Months ago one of the car magazines dyno'd the 335 and estimated that it was close to 350 hp at the flywheel.

former 240 s14
07-21-2007, 01:29 PM
I just posted up my results today....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219174

enjoy.

Rubin

JC5
07-21-2007, 02:55 PM
305 FT/LBS ot torque. :thumbup:

former 240 s14
07-21-2007, 03:31 PM
305 FT/LBS ot torque. :thumbup:

Yep I was very very surprised..... happily surprsied however, lol!

Terry @ BMS
07-21-2007, 08:41 PM
Just for reference here is a recent dyno I did, stock was around 275 STD. The thing about air intakes is while we might see a dyno gain, the factory setup is somewhat of a 'ram air' system so there might be no track gains.

DynoQueen
07-30-2007, 10:00 AM
We'll do a before after with the Gtech Pro, as well as the 1/4 mile. We are looking for real world gains, not just dyno numbers. Still, dyno testing is a must.

franka
07-30-2007, 10:11 AM
Just for reference here is a recent dyno I did, stock was around 275 STD. The thing about air intakes is while we might see a dyno gain, the factory setup is somewhat of a 'ram air' system so there might be no track gains.

Isn't it just the opposite? When the car is moving, and getting some ram effect, the motor will be putting out more hp than when it sits still on a dyno with no ram effect.

Terry @ BMS
07-31-2007, 09:12 PM
Isn't it just the opposite? When the car is moving, and getting some ram effect, the motor will be putting out more hp than when it sits still on a dyno with no ram effect.

I think we're saying the same thing. My point was that improving an air intake might show a dyno increase, as there is less fresh air available in the air box sitting on the dyno than might otherwise be there if you were going say 60mph.

mrsweden
08-01-2007, 02:27 AM
I think we're saying the same thing. My point was that improving an air intake might show a dyno increase, as there is less fresh air available in the air box sitting on the dyno than might otherwise be there if you were going say 60mph.


This depends on guys!

If its a really good dyno and setup then it ll have a fan and a coling system so u can tell the computer how cold the air should be and the wind speed. The colder air the smaller is the volyme. Everyones car is going faster in 60 then at 105 degrees Right?;)

Its all up to the knowlege and equipment.:thumbup:

Mags

franka
08-01-2007, 06:46 AM
I think we're saying the same thing. My point was that improving an air intake might show a dyno increase, as there is less fresh air available in the air box sitting on the dyno than might otherwise be there if you were going say 60mph.


Sorry but I'm not sure what you are saying.

Terry @ BMS
08-01-2007, 03:57 PM
Sorry but I'm not sure what you are saying.

OK I'll try again. :)

The factory intake works much better when the car is moving than it does when the car is standing still due to the "ram air effect" of the stock system. <O:p
<O:p
So while putting a larger intake on might help you make more power vs. stock when the car is standing still, that doesn***8217;t mean it will make more power than stock when the car at speed.

franka
08-01-2007, 05:02 PM
OK I'll try again. :)

The factory intake works much better when the car is moving than it does when the car is standing still due to the "ram air effect" of the stock system. <O:p
<O:p
So while putting a larger intake on might help you make more power vs. stock when the car is standing still, that doesn't mean it will make more power than stock when the car at speed.


Here is what I think you said >>>

Ram effect while moving helps the stock system generate more power.

Ram effect while moving may not help aftermarket system generate more power.

If that is what you are saying, then please explain why.

Terry @ BMS
08-01-2007, 06:46 PM
Here is what I think you said >>>


Ram effect while moving may not help aftermarket system generate more power.

If that is what you are saying, then please explain why.

More like with Ram air effect of stock system aftermarket system might not provide any additional benefit.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

franka
08-01-2007, 07:34 PM
Why would it provide benefit in one case and not the other? What is the logic? The reasoning?

I think I may know but I would rather you tell me.

185HP
08-01-2007, 07:40 PM
3.0 twin turbo engine is the very best engine BMW has engineered since tthe 3.2 liter 6-in line cylinder from the last M3.

I've already driven it and it's amazing. Even here in Mexico City, the acceleration is notorious, better than many so called sport cars...

There's a test at Edmunds with a 4.8 second result for the 0-60 mph acceleration test... simply amazing for a car that looks more elgant than sporty...

I'm sure that the air intake will add some HP very easliy, this engine must be capable of putting out over 350 HP without big changes...


Regards,

Terry @ BMS
08-01-2007, 10:06 PM
Why would it provide benefit in one case and not the other? What is the logic? The reasoning?

I think I may know but I would rather you tell me.

I think you're asking why would "ram air" provide a benefit in one case and not the other. Assuming that is the question, it would benefit the stock airbox and presumably an aftermarket airbox. It's just that I think the factory airbox with the factory air intake is more than sufficient for the power levels of the 335i.
<O:p
Often people will show a dyno and then claim that because part X picked up say Y hp on the dyno that it will also pick up Y hp under normal operating conditions. It's just not always the case.
<O:p
So in the case of an air intake on the 335i a giant K&N filter with no cold air intake might pickup 10rwhp on the dyno, but on the street when the "ram air" takes effect there might be no difference.
<O:p
The moral of the story: You need a dyno AND track times to really tell if a part will improve your performance.

gjcm3
08-04-2007, 10:20 PM
How did it lay down 284 stock if BMW claims 300 crank? Haha that's like 5% loss, which makes no sense. I'd imagine that thing is making more like 340 at the crank, or that dynojet reads high. I've been for a ride in one before and that thing pulled hard from so low in the powerband!

Terry @ BMS
08-04-2007, 10:55 PM
How did it lay down 284 stock if BMW claims 300 crank? Haha that's like 5% loss, which makes no sense. I'd imagine that thing is making more like 340 at the crank, or that dynojet reads high. I've been for a ride in one before and that thing pulled hard from so low in the powerband!

They are very underrated. ;) Most guys pull 265-275rwhp stock. I don't get caught up in crank hp since there is no way to verify it, but with a JBS1 guys see over 300rwhp!

franka
08-05-2007, 05:41 PM
So what is the correct percentage difference between flywhl and rearwhl hp?

Is it 20% less at the wheels than the fly?

Terry @ BMS
08-05-2007, 07:06 PM
So what is the correct percentage difference between flywhl and rearwhl hp?

Is it 20% less at the wheels than the fly?

Who knows, flywheel hp is like the tooth fairy. I think it's best to quote rwhp figures since one can measure those.

franka
08-06-2007, 07:56 AM
Who knows, flywheel hp is like the tooth fairy. I think it's best to quote rwhp figures since one can measure those.


Yes I would agree. But still, what is the factor to convert back and forth?

Terry @ BMS
08-06-2007, 09:57 AM
Yes I would agree. But still, what is the factor to convert back and forth?

There really is no factor, but I guess for conversations sake you could say 15%.

franka
08-06-2007, 10:46 AM
There really is no factor, but I guess for conversations sake you could say 15%.


You forced me to go to the internet for an answer. There is a lot of info on drive train loss and there are a lot of answers because there are many factors that are involved.

The bottom line is that the loss is around 30 to 60 hp for manuals and about 45 to 75 hp for automatics in general.

Putting it into percentage terms losses are in the very apprx range of 12 to 15% for manuals and higher for automatics.

If anyone disagrees I suggest they google "drive train loss" and read up on it for themself.

Terry @ BMS
08-06-2007, 10:53 AM
Sounds reasonable. As you said there are a lot of variables so it's difficult to model as a straight percentage.