530 xi, 530xi sprt wgn or x5 [Archive] - bimmerfest

cvb

10-20-2007, 07:07 AM

I just changed from a 2004 X5 to my 535xi. While I miss having a "cargo car", I LOVE driving again! The X5 may be the BMW of SUVs, but it's still an SUV. My wife has the cargo car now and I have a smile on my face every time I get in my car!

One of the top reasons I love my car is the new engine...if I had to choose between a 8 cylinder X5 or the pre-turbo 530xi, I'd take the X5.

quackbury

10-20-2007, 07:25 AM

First of all, sorry to hear about your loss - I hope no one in your family was hurt? How did the X5 hold up in the accident?

We have a 2006 X5 and a 2006 E60. Despite the obvious difference (SUV vs. sedan, D'oh!), there is a wonderfully different feel to the E60, with its iDrive, superior stereo, gee-whiz electronics, etc. Change is always good, and going to a 530xiT will make you feel a lot better about having your X5 totalled (vs. getting into someone else's - used - X5).

Since BMW made very subtle changes to the LCI, your 530xiT will look more like a "new" car, vs, the last-gen X5 you are considering. Plus with the price of premium unleaded there is a lot to be said about the 530's gas mileage.

That said, there are things you may miss about the X5:

Off road ability (if you ever want to drive on the beach, etc.)
Trailering (if you ever need to tow)
Cargo space (it's amazing how much we can cram in our X5 when we need to)
Higher seating position (on those days when the rain is coming down sideways, I feel vastly more comfortable driving the X5 on the highway, as my vision is not as impacted by the spray from the cars and semi's ahead). EDIT: Rereading this, driving in the rain is actually a push. the X5 has the better seating position, but the E60 has the neat system that lightly applies the brakes to keep the rotors dry. As an X5 owner, I'm sure you've had that sickening experience where you hit the brakes inthe rain and nothing happens for a split second till the rotors dry off.
The base seats are much more comfortable in the X5 (not a problem if the 530xiT has SP or comfort seats)
It is easier to carry bikes on the X5's hitch-mounted carrier, than on the 530xiT's roof rack. (But if the X5 doesn't have one already, the BMW trailer hitch is ridiculously expensive)
iDrive is an acquired taste. I love it, my wife (who rarely drives the 550) hates it.

They are both great cars, and it's a nice choice to have. Good luck with your decision!

sayemthree

10-21-2007, 08:02 PM

Wagon Ftw.

ademitt

10-21-2007, 08:20 PM

Wagon Ftw.

+1

A Biased opinion of course:)

Adumbration

10-21-2007, 10:14 PM

It might be helpful to know what you need out a vehicle. Why did you originally buy the X5?

Based on what I know about the X5, personally, I'm not a big fan. The X5 is an "all-road" vehicle. It's not an off-road vehicle. Even if it were, would you really want to go off-roading with a $60K vehicle? If so, then you've never really gone off-roading. Or you're so rich, you don't care.

The X5 is a station wagon with high ground clearance that was made to look like an SUV, but handle better on road than your average SUV. This on-road bias makes a lot of sense, since most SUV owners don't actually take their SUVs off-road. BMW just designed what most SUV drivers wanted.

It's a good looking vehicle, I have to admit. They did a great job with design. But it seems like a posermobile to me. It's pretending to be an SUV. It's rugged looks make it look like it's meant to tackle the most challenging off-road coarse. But it's still just a station wagon with good ground clearance. By the way, I really like the thread in the other forum concerning the X5 owner that had his airbags deploy when he went over a small curb.

The X5 is likely better in snow than the 530xi or 530xit, but with four nice snow tires, the 530xi or 530xit are pretty solid snow performers. In how many snow storms would a 530xi or 530xit get stuck, but the X5 pull through? Probably not many. If you're optimizing your decision around this, best to get a Hummer.

On the other hand, the 530xi and 530xit perform much better under normal driving conditions than the X5. And their gas milage is considerably better (source (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm)):

530xi/t - 18 city, 25 hwy
X5 - 14 city, 19 hwy

Thus, my recommendation is:
If you need the cargo space: 530xit.
If you don't: 530xi.

If you think you need some capability that the X5 has, what is it?

Adumbration

10-21-2007, 10:26 PM

By the way, here's a rather excellent article on SUVs (or SAVs, or whatever):

http://stayfreemagazine.org/suv/harpers.html

It was written for Harper's Magazine in 2001, but it's a great background on how automanufacturer's perceive the SUV.

quackbury

10-22-2007, 03:06 AM

If you think you need some capability that the X5 has, what is it?

Well for some of us, towing our boat (or snowmobiles on a trailer) tops the list. Maybe you need more toys?:dunno:

And as for going "offroad", some of us take our "posermobiles" onto the beach: Nantucket, Outer Banks, Duxbury Beach, etc. You don't need to be rock-hopping in the high desert to appreciate the X-5's ground clearance and beefier construction.

Like every other car / truck / SUV / SAV out there, the X5 is a compromise vehicle. But it's a compromise that makes eminent sense for some of us. Sorry your life does not give ou the opportunity to enjoy an SUV / SAV, but maybe you should think twice before flaming those of us who do get the chance to use one.

HPIA4v2

10-22-2007, 05:51 AM

My 2006 x5 4.4 optioned with sport pkg.,cold weather, premium pkg, rear climate, comfort seats was totaled two weeks ago. Now looking for another but have also gotten into the 530 xi and the 530 xi sport wagon. 530 xi is giving me second thought on the x5. Any thoghts?
X5 has the 3rd row seat options, if you need one to carry those extra lil soccer players in the back.
Else I just don't see the X5 to have any advantage to 530xi.

Ugly Bear

10-22-2007, 01:09 PM

Well for some of us, towing our boat (or snowmobiles on a trailer) tops the list. Maybe you need more toys?:dunno:

And as for going "offroad", some of us take our "posermobiles" onto the beach: Nantucket, Outer Banks, Duxbury Beach, etc. You don't need to be rock-hopping in the high desert to appreciate the X-5's ground clearance and beefier construction.

Why go for a compromise? Do you go to the beach every week or perhaps only three times a year? Why not buy a used truck to tow/haul things when you need and drive regular car or even 2 seater otherwise?

sayemthree

10-22-2007, 04:54 PM

X5 has the 3rd row seat options, if you need one to carry those extra lil soccer players in the back.
Else I just don't see the X5 to have any advantage to 530xi.

the older X5 he is considering does not have the third row - the only advantes the x5 has is ground clearance for snow or off road and towing. I dont need either.

if you really need a third row get a minivan.

Adumbration

10-22-2007, 05:51 PM

Quackbury,

The X5 definitely has capabilities that a 5-series wagon doesn't:

- Towing (for which the X5 is quite capable)
- Better snow performance (my assumption based on higher ground clearance)
- Seating for a couple more children in the thrid row
- Limited off-road use

If you use those, more power to you. My question:If you think you need some capability that the X5 has, what is it?to the OP was an honest one.

You seem to be annoyed at my use of the word "posermobile". My point here is simply that the X5 was styled to look like an SUV, but, for example, the Subaru Outback is 1/2 of foot shorter, but has the same ground clearance as the X5, and it's a mighty capable vehicle. Did BMW have to build a vehicle that looks like the X5 to achieve the additional capabilities listed above? Did they have to make it so tall, and reduce handling? Or are they cashing in on the current SUV fad (see article mentioned above)?

If the X5 really couldn't be constructed in any other way to improve on-road performance while still achieving the goals listed above, then I stand corrected. But if BMW made performance concessions in order to make it look more tough and truck-like, it's a posermobile.

Ugly Bear

10-22-2007, 07:13 PM

Besides, most SUVs (X5 included) only appear to have high clearance - people think higher vehicle has higher clearance which is not necessarily true. In many cases dedicated wagon like Outback or Volvo XC70 may actually have as high clearance as SUV. To compare, look upder the car, you'll see tons of stuff, often completely uprotected, hanging down there.

Let's go to edmunds.com and compare a few cars.

XC90: 8.9"
XC70: 8.3"
X5: 8.3"
Mercedes ML: 8.3"
Subaru Outback: 8.3"
Jeep Grand Cherokee: 8.3"
Explorer: 8.2"
Acura MDX: 8.2"
Audi Q7: 8.1"
Infiniti FX: 7.3"
Lexus RX: 7"

That's rather funny. Oh, and do people really drive through unplowed 10" of snow in their glorious Explorers?

mapezzul

10-23-2007, 04:18 AM

Sorry to hear about your situation, hope everyone is alright.

I debated the X5 vs. the 530XIT (Sport Wagon as it is now called) for a good deal of time as well. The benefits of day to day necessity pushed me towards the wagon. Gas mileage is better than the X5 as is the handling. Storage space is about the same or even more since the XIT has no intrusion by the rear suspension. The lower roof makes it easier to take things on/off the roof rack (Yakima Lowrider towers with bars and attachments). You do loose the ground clearance and towing capacity with the XIT. The X drive systems make both all season vehicles.
One thing worth noting is that the XIT DOES NOT drive the same as other 5 series models, not that it is worse or better but different because of the balance and the rear suspension being air/ self leveling.
I have almost 20k (already) on my car and have loved it and been problem free (knock on wood).

Best of luck with your decision!:thumbup:

quackbury

10-23-2007, 06:30 PM

Why go for a compromise? Do you go to the beach every week or perhaps only three times a year? Why not buy a used truck to tow/haul things when you need and drive regular car or even 2 seater otherwise?

Actually, we spend about 25 days per summer on a 4-wheel drive beach. You can't beat the convenience of loading all the chairs, grill, picnic table, cooler, boogie boards, wet suits, etc. into the back, driving onto the beach and popping the tailgate. 3 or 4 times a year we see a XC70, Audi Allroad or Subie on the beach - most of the time, they are in the process of being pushed or towed. The X5 has so far been unstoppable (unlike the XC90 it replaced) even with the stock all season tires. Note that this is REAL WORLD experience, not marketing speak from some statistic laden report.

We can tow our 22' Grady White behind the X5 with ease. I guess we could drive a used pick-em-up, but why bother if we don't have to? Besides, spending the $$$ to register and insure a 3rd car for use as a tow vehicle strikes me as a TRULY STUPID idea.

Oh yeah. When our junior sailors go to a regatta, we can fit 2 optis, sail bags and blades in the back of the X5. I cannot imagine fitting all that gear into any conventional wagon.

To me the real "compromise" would be having to give up any of the things we love, and/or buy a pickup truck just to engage in our passions, when the X5 is such a perfect solution. Like I said, if you can't appreciate all the goodness in an X5, maybe you need more toys.;)

quackbury

10-23-2007, 06:34 PM

Oh, and do people really drive through unplowed 10" of snow in their glorious Explorers?

Don't know about Explorers, "glorious" or otherwise, but I can think of 3 times in the past 2 winters when we drove 10 miles from our ski house to the mountain, in 6-plus inches of new snow before the DPW plowed the roads, just to get first tracks.

These things DO HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE, even if they don't happen to you.

Ugly Bear

10-23-2007, 08:14 PM

Don't know about Explorers, "glorious" or otherwise, but I can think of 3 times in the past 2 winters when we drove 10 miles from our ski house to the mountain, in 6-plus inches of new snow before the DPW plowed the roads, just to get first tracks.

These things DO HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE, even if they don't happen to you.

OK, YOU do it. You actually drive in snow. You tow a boat. 90% of other X5 owners don't. So any generalizations regarding "most people never do" still apply.

And, of course, X5 with all seasons is seven orders of magnitude better than any other AWD car. Especially Volvo. Even Volvo with winter tires. 'cause it's not a BMW.

Adumbration

10-23-2007, 09:32 PM

I guess we could drive a used pick-em-up, but why bother if we don't have to? Besides, spending the $$$ to register and insure a 3rd car for use as a tow vehicle strikes me as a TRULY STUPID idea.
You're right. This is a truly stupid idea. Why would anyone buy a used SUV or truck that was better at towing, driving in the snow, and off-road when you can have one compromise vehicle. Only complete idiots would even consider doing this.

Oh, ah, can you explain why you posted this just last year:

For the price of a RR we got a very nice X5 3.0 to use for "soccer mom" duties and fast comfortable trips to our ski house in all types of foul weather, PLUS a nice, low mileage used Jeep Grand Cherokee to use on the beach and in the really nasty stuff.

If I could "only" have one 4wd, I "might" consider a RR. Thank God I don't have to!

quackbury

10-24-2007, 03:10 AM

Oh, ah, can you explain why you posted this just last year:

Because it WAS a truly stupid idea. :thumbdwn: After having both the GC and X5 around, we realized the X5 did everything the GC did, with more style, more comfortable seats, equal 4-wheel traction, and much better safety features, especially rollover protection. After seeing a couple of GC's that had been rolled - their A pillars collapsed like they were made of spaghetti - we unloaded the GC.

BMW built the X5 to sell. Judging by the numbers I see on the road, it has. If some folks use it only for soccer mom duties, that's hardly BMW's fault. (In fact, a huge number of BMW sports sedan drivers never take their car to a driving school or race track, and that's not BMW's fault either). The X5 is one very capable machine, with a unique combination of ride, handling and utility.

As my sig says, I have a 550 in addition to the X5. And in my first reply to the OP (an X5 owner) I pointed out all the things I thought he might prefer about the E60, plus a couple of things he might miss about his X5. This was helpful, constructive commentary. The X5 is clearly not the "right" vehicle for everyone, but works just fine for some of us.

If you don't like SUV's / SAV's that's fine. But if you look at the X5 forums (on this board or elsewhere), you'll realize that a lot of us X5 owners are just as passionate about our rides as you are about yours. Call us "posers" and you will start a flame war. :flame:

And with that, I am done on the subject. Enjoy your ride(s) and I will continue to enjoy mine.

Billd104

10-24-2007, 12:24 PM

Go with the E61 (530xiT) er... 535xiT now.

obi.wan

10-26-2007, 08:15 AM

Own both the XC90 (second one) and 530XiT

1- xc90 needs to have spin control off for deep snow and sand. My personal experience for beach and snow (lived in upstate NY for 4 years), superior to X5.

2- No getting around dedicated snow tires for vehicles of that weight for the traction control to work, irrespective of make. Only ones that come close for all weather are Nokian's WR

3- 3rd row for safety is unprotected for X5

4- XC90 has reliability issues

5- Towing is better for X5 (V8 in the new XC90??)

To each his own

EJSDad

10-26-2007, 09:35 PM

sayemthree

10-26-2007, 09:45 PM

I wish I had four hands so I could put four thumbs down on the X5. The third row is useless and dangerous in my opinion. I looked at it as well. My wife has a 07 3 series wagon and that thing is awesome!! My son and all his stuff fits very well. I am now most partial to my 535i for overall satisfaction. If you need the space consider the three. It handles great and it carries about as much cargo as the X5. I'm not particularly fond on the 5 wagon but that is your decision.

everyone should read the thread - he is considering a 2006 x5. it does NOT have a 3rd row option. In any case it may well be dangerous (as is riding in the passenger seat) but it is not uselss. two 9 years olds can ride there fine for short trips. its a nice alternative to a Suburban. But the X5 is NOT for me. That I agree with.

525itx on order. 6mT of course.

nutmeg

10-27-2007, 03:26 AM

2006 530 sport wagon Automatic, Navigation, Premium Pkg., Xenon Headlights, Cold Weather Pkg., Parking Distance Control, In Dash AM/FM/CD, Black Leather Interior is the winner. Picking up 11/2/07

bimmercontrol

10-27-2007, 04:20 AM

from what i've read and experienced i would go for the e60 hands down. the only thing left to decide is if you need the space of the "it"

as for the other "benefits" of the X5 i think its blown out of proportion. "driving on the beach and towing" cmon people you don't need an x5 to drive on the beach, ive taken a fwd vw golf onto the beach and up into a sand parking lot.

towing: i heard someone mentioned powerboats and seadoo's ; unless you want to tow a yacht then anything can take those. again same thing i've towed a 4 person camper no problem with a golf and the car was packed. a few tows a year and driving through the sand a few times a year would never make me want to put up with an x5 for 365 full days.

quackbury

10-27-2007, 05:47 AM

as for the other "benefits" of the X5 i think its blown out of proportion. "driving on the beach and towing" cmon people you don't need an x5 to drive on the beach, ive taken a fwd vw golf onto the beach and up into a sand parking lot.

towing: i heard someone mentioned powerboats and seadoo's ; unless you want to tow a yacht then anything can take those. again same thing i've towed a 4 person camper no problem with a golf and the car was packed. a few tows a year and driving through the sand a few times a year would never make me want to put up with an x5 for 365 full days.

Yep, you're right. A sand parking lot is no different from 6 inches of soft sand when the tide is coming in. And I'm sure I could tow a 6,000 pound boat and trailer with a Yugo. Those GVW ratings are just for sissies, everyone knows that. Plus you'll never need brakes when you tow, so don't sweat it.

I guess your avatar "Work SMATER (sic) not Harder" pretty much sums it up.

quackbury

10-27-2007, 05:49 AM

2006 530 sport wagon Automatic, Navigation, Premium Pkg., Xenon Headlights, Cold Weather Pkg., Parking Distance Control, In Dash AM/FM/CD, Black Leather Interior is the winner. Picking up 11/2/07

Congratulations! Excellent choice! Exterior color? Logic 7? We need pics!

bimmercontrol

10-27-2007, 06:39 AM

Yep, you're right. A sand parking lot is no different from 6 inches of soft sand when the tide is coming in. And I'm sure I could tow a 6,000 pound boat and trailer with a Yugo. Those GVW ratings are just for sissies, everyone knows that. Plus you'll never need brakes when you tow, so don't sweat it.

I guess your avatar "Work SMATER (sic) not Harder" pretty much sums it up.

i did say a "unless you want to tow yacht" didn't i, and why would you want to be driving up and down the beach in a car, just blows my mind. lets wait for the tide and watch the car sink, that should be loads of fun. the point of my scenario was to show what could be done with a little vw golf, replace that with an e60 and you would have understood the point. also im sure the e60 brakes are complete cr*p and will never hold up :thumbup:

bimmercontrol

10-27-2007, 07:03 AM

here are some things you could tow with a regular car :yikes:

http://www.carpages.co.uk/mazda/mazda_images/mazda_mazda6_estate_27_09_06.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:mBu5J2fYHvZbEM:http://www.caranddriving.com/features2/300/Caravan%2520Club%2520Towing%2520Course.jpg

and if you really want an suv:

http://stuff.tv/csfiles/blogs/motor/Touareg.gif

yes i actually saw a segment on this, they did it on 5th gear

quackbury

10-27-2007, 05:15 PM

i did say a "unless you want to tow yacht" didn't i,

Well, I appreciate the compliment, but down here in New England a 22 footer is a long way from being considered a yacht. Lots of folks tow even larger boats, and you would have to be certifiably insane to pull a 18 to 28 footer behind a car.

and why would you want to be driving up and down the beach in a car, just blows my mind.

Well, go onto Google Earth and look at Duxbury Beach Park. 5 mile long peninsula / barrier beach, 3 miles of which are 4-wheel-drive accessible. Folks without an SUV have to park in the parking lot and schlepp all their gear over to the front beach, where they are butt cheek to butt cheek with a thousand other folks, their screaming kids and their boomboxes.

On the other hand, we throw the kids, cooler, fishing poles, boogie boards, etc. into the X5 and cruise down the beach to a place we have all to ourselves. The same thing works in Nantucket, the Outer Banks, and a hundred other spots. And no, you CANNOT take an E60 into 4 to 6 inches of deep sand, no matter how much you may want to think you can.

EJSDad

10-27-2007, 05:56 PM

bimmercontrol

10-28-2007, 06:07 PM

Well, I appreciate the compliment, but down here in New England a 22 footer is a long way from being considered a yacht. Lots of folks tow even larger boats, and you would have to be certifiably insane to pull a 18 to 28 footer behind a car.

yes thats right, a yacht would be more like 40feet. depending on the boat im sure you could find a good 22 footer under 3000lb, should not be a problem at all for an e60. thats exactly what i tried to say the first time.

i tried finding your beach but no luck. last time i had a camper trailer was a few months back towed by a renault laguna estate , i just back it in under trees and walked onto the beach. different scenario i suppose but i would personally always find such a location as oposed to driving up and down the beach, renting a car for whatever occasion is no big deal.

heres a pretty bad google photo but i would just back it in to the edge of the tree line by the sand

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=solaris,+croatia&sll=43.627439,-79.478923&sspn=0.007067,0.020084&ie=UTF8&ll=43.696611,15.889235&spn=0.028236,0.080338&t=k&z=14&om=1

Adumbration

10-28-2007, 06:37 PM

Because it WAS a truly stupid idea. :thumbdwn: After having both the GC and X5 around, we realized the X5 did everything the GC did, ...You mean it was a stupid idea for you.

There are plenty of reasons to buy a vehicle more capable than the X5. Just because you don't happen to need those capabilities doesn't mean others don't as well. Perhaps you need more toys and hobbies? :dunno:

Additionally, there are plenty of reasons why someone would want two cars: a nice road car, and a used truck for use off-road, towing, hauling, in heavy snow, etc.

Call us "posers" and you will start a flame war.

On the "posermobile" comment, you seem to be fixated on believing that I am calling you a poser. Despite your unfriendly attitude, I have calmly explained above and in response to your PMs that this is a quality of the vehicle, not its owners (at least not necessarily). If you would like to suggest an alternative word, feel free. Fakemobile? Whatever nicely encapsulates the idea of a high, SUV truck-like vehicle that is not meant for use off-road (and I don't mean on a little sand).

This doesn't necessarily make the X5 a bad vehicle, just a fake looking one, at least to those that actually drive off-road. Sounds like you wanted something in-between a car and an SUV with heavy towing capability. Jackpot, X5. It's clear that you use your X5 to it's fullest, and you really like it. That's great, enjoy it.

sayemthree

10-28-2007, 07:16 PM

It seems as though I have offended a few members on the board with my comments on the X5. I misread the year and assumed we were discussing a 2007 X5. I apologize for offending anyone however I do stand behind the comment of the third row being dangerous for applicable models. For children, the second row seats are higher than the third row therefore, you will not be able to see children back there from the front or rearview while driving. As for adults, it seems to me if you got into any accident you would probably get crushed pretty badly back there or sustain major infuries from the tight fit. Again I do apologize for offending anyone. At the end of the day I love BMW and that is why most of us are here.

you didnt offend me. I just ahted to see everyone go on about the third seat. if thats what you need a new x5 or aminivan should do.

my parents have one and its great for hauling around extra kids and grand kids occasionally and I fell MUCH safer in it then the Suburban they used to have.

that siad with a family of four (and a dog) we do just fine with a 5 sized wagon.

528it 5MT sold
535itx 6MT on order.

nutmeg

10-29-2007, 11:19 PM

Here is a photo of the winner

Adumbration

10-29-2007, 11:58 PM

The 5-series wagon is one good looking wagon.

What are the details? Options? Price?

nutmeg

10-30-2007, 04:27 AM

12,500 miles

2006 530 sport wagon Automatic, Navigation, Premium Pkg., Xenon Headlights, Cold Weather Pkg., Parking Distance Control, In Dash AM/FM/CD, Black Leather Interior.

$42K

sayemthree

10-30-2007, 03:28 PM

Nice!!!

Adumbration

10-30-2007, 04:40 PM

By my account, a 2006 530xit with those options would have invoiced for a little over $55k. Let's say an out the door price of $57K.

That's a $15K savings for a car with about 1 year of miles on it. Looks like a sweet deal to me.

nutmeg

10-30-2007, 06:37 PM

retail $59712.00 I believe. A savings of $17K.

mullman

10-30-2007, 06:50 PM

I personally would choose a 5er Touring over an X5 any day.
The X5 has much less usable space in the rear compared to the Touring.

If I really needed to tow over 2500lbs I would look at a MB R Class Diesel.
Beyond that I am not sure, it gets depressing very quickly.

Minority opinion obviously. I just feel the X5 has much too little space and utility for the price, and I really am not a fan of SUVs anyway. I know BMW wants to call them SAVs, but they are just not kidding me. It is a car build for Americans to compete for our SUV appetites.

xiTouring

10-31-2007, 02:43 AM

Congrats Nutmeg! I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine!

I personally would choose a 5er Touring over an X5 any day.
The X5 has much less usable space in the rear compared to the Touring.

Agree! The X5 also has a much higher liftover.

TMQ

10-31-2007, 12:30 PM

yeah, >90% of people who drive X5, they don't need it. It's an image thing. A desire to see over other people. Feel taller, stronger, bolder. Wagon - that's so grandpa style.

I'd love to own a 535xit if I could afford it. The space in the back is huge. the alternative 328it is much smaller.

More than 5 people, a minivan is best. Much more space, utility, and better safety. But again, it's an image thing.