Peculiar Problem with Shifter Arm

[capnvivi]

First thing’s first. I drive a black 1993 325i Sedan with about 89,000 miles.

Hi, I’m a new poster in this forum but I’ve been reading regularly ever since I thought about purchasing a BMW. Now, 2 months into my ownership, I’m attempting to fix the car up, being that it is older, there are quite a few things to work on but I’ve tried to start on the most basic things. Change out ALL the fluids in the car, flush the cooling system and replace every worn out part I can find.

However, there was a hiccup in the road, though I should have expected such a thing owning a German car.

While I was downshifting into second gear, I felt a part beneath the shifter snap and suddenly I could not shift into any gear and the shifter itself was moving around wildly, not in any sensible pattern. The clutch was fine and I could push the pedal in and out with the expected amount of feedback, but something was wrong with the shifter and I didn’t find out until the next day, when I had it towed to my parent’s garage where I could get it up on stands and take a look.

The shift arm, where the ball joint on the shifter itself rests had broken in two. Apparently the shifter arm itself was too long and had been machine cut, then had two metal dowels drilled into either side of it (like a splint) to reinforce it. The previous owner did not tell me about this and I have no idea why this was done.

Regardless, I went to Pelicanparts and ordered a new stock part, figuring it would drop right in and everything would be fine. However, 10 days later, when the part arrived, I installed it and the shifter was suddenly too far back and I couldn’t even put it in neutral (at its furthest position forward it was in 1st and I couldn’t get it back far enough to switch gears).

I decided the problem was the shift arm, but I wasn’t sure where to get a shorter one, like the original machine cut one (in my car). I then ordered a DSSR from UUC figuring the longer (198 mm) selector rod would allow my shifter to function properly (and I was upgrading in the process).

Of course, the DSSR barely allows the car to drive as it’s so far back I had to remove my entire center console assembly. Of course, it’s further forward than the stock selector rod (189 mm), but just not far enough. I then contacted UUC to see if I could get a longer one and they sent me the selector rod for the E30 M3, which ended up being too long.

At this point in time, I believe I need to replace the shift arm, since the original part was cut to a certain length and the stock part is longer. However, I don’t understand why this is necessary since from what I UNDERSTAND, my car is entirely stock. My transmission had the VIN# (or what I thought was the VIN#) scratch out, but it did have some sort of code printed on it: 000304ANB. I have my suspicions that my transmission might not be stock, but even if it isn’t, I’m not sure what other options I’d have as far as selector rods or shift arms.

Any and all input is appreciated.


Also, sorry for the long post, haha.

[jasonf860]

hmm, i could probably help you but i can hardly understand your post. try using the proper terms for the parts as there is only 4 main components. Shift lever, Carrier, selector rod, and selector rod joint. These are the only parts that would pertain to your dilema. Your car is a 93, that means it is pre selector rod upgrade. What this means is that I assume the part that broke is the selector rod. Goes from the shift lever to the transmission selector joint. A machined one follows suit with a weighted selector rod. to use the Rogue WSR, you must update the selector joint. If you don't, the shift lever is too far forward. I assume that your selector rod joint has been changed to the newer design, and now your replacement selector rod is too short thus causing your shift lever to be too far back. only wrench in the works here is that the 198 dssr you bought "should" have worked. If you can snap a pic of your linkage, etc. I am 100% positive I can pinpoint your problem with one look.

[capnvivi]

Sorry about the improper language, I'm not that familiar with the car part names, so I was just going off of what RealOEM called the parts.

I attached the image I was using as a reference, and figure number 1 in the picture is what broke.

The shifting arm (or carrier), part #25111221541 snapped in two, the selector rod did not, and I've still got the two parts, the broken carrier and the selector rod. I had to take the whole assembly out and replace it since the carrier itself was the problem. In the process I replaced the bushings in the selector rod/transmission selector joint, so I understand and agree that the distance between this and the shift lever is the problem.

I'm going to try and get some pictures tomorrow, but what specifically would you need to look at? I did all the work without removing the driveshaft, transmission, or exhaust system so I didn't even get a real good look at it, myself.

Thanks for the help though!

[jasonf860]

Eh, i'm just more familiar with the terms I've mentioned. In particular I think your issue is the selector rod joint (#12) in the diagram. There are 2 types. The one shown in this diagram is the updated style. The update happened in 9/94. I know this because being that I have a 9/94 production date, I was "blessed" with the older style and it has caused my WSR to be too long. I now am faced with updating my selector rod joint to the newer style. Looking at these pics, you'll see what I mean.

Older style (what you should have and what mates to the 189MM selector)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/jasonf860/imgdsplycgi.jpg

newer style and what mates to the 198mm selector
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/jasonf860/imgdsply1cgi.jpg

Verify what one you have, and them the appropriate selector rod should do the trick.
There is almost a 10mm difference between the 2 selector joints. if your 198 dssr is too short, try it with the older style selector. That should add a good amount to it. If the E30 m3 one is too long, try it with the newer style selector and it should make up the difference.

Of course, it is entirely possible that you have the wrong carrier, but I assume the only one that would fit is the correct one. I will be under the car again Thursday night working on my own shift linkage. I can take some measurements of the carrier at that time if you'd like.


Had another thought.. Does your shift lever go toward the front of the car from the pivot ball down or toward the back of the car?

[capnvivi]

Strangely enough, I have the older style one, the one not shown in the diagram, but my selector rod (198mm) is still not long enough. Also, the bend in my shift joint is pointing like an arrow towards the front of the car, I believe that's the proper installation, but from the pivot ball down the lever is pointing to the front of the car. I always assumed it was supposed to go a little further back, so I guessed the problem was a selector rod that wasn't long enough.

I'm not sure if putting the newer style joint in and using the longer E30 M3 DSSR would work, but it sounds like it's worth a try at least. The only problem is I shipped the part back to UUC when it did not fit my current configuration, so I'll have to wait a bit to figure it out.

If you want to measure the length of your carrier, I can measure the broken one I took out of my car and I can try and determine if I just have the wrong carrier. Strangely, the one that broke is bent in a wide U-shape (not from the break, the piece was just shaped like this) whereas the stock one I installed is straight, and they both fit in the car properly.

That's what has me scratching my head, if they both FIT, why would the shifter not sit in the same place?


Either way, thanks for your input so far, it's been extremely helpful.

[jasonf860]

Strangely enough, I have the older style one, the one not shown in the diagram, but my selector rod (198mm) is still not long enough. Also, the bend in my shift joint is pointing like an arrow towards the front of the car, I believe that's the proper installation, but from the pivot ball down the lever is pointing to the front of the car. I always assumed it was supposed to go a little further back, so I guessed the problem was a selector rod that wasn't long enough.

I'm not sure if putting the newer style joint in and using the longer E30 M3 DSSR would work, but it sounds like it's worth a try at least. The only problem is I shipped the part back to UUC when it did not fit my current configuration, so I'll have to wait a bit to figure it out.

If you want to measure the length of your carrier, I can measure the broken one I took out of my car and I can try and determine if I just have the wrong carrier. Strangely, the one that broke is bent in a wide U-shape (not from the break, the piece was just shaped like this) whereas the stock one I installed is straight, and they both fit in the car properly.

That's what has me scratching my head, if they both FIT, why would the shifter not sit in the same place?


Either way, thanks for your input so far, it's been extremely helpful.

Shift lever is supposed to bend toward the back of the car. This might throw your shifter even further back, but it's worth a shot.

[Rob@UUC]

Did you ever get this sorted out?

Sounds to me like there were some non-standard parts swapped into your car.

Did you compare the original "repaired" carrier with the new one you got from the dealer? If they were not dimensionally identical, there's the problem.

When the correct carrier is installed, you should be able to look through the hole in the floor of the car where the shifter passes through, and the hole in the carrier should be centered.

OR... did you measure the selector rod that came out of your car? Measure from center of pin to center of the other pin. 189mm or 198mm is right for the 325, depending on production date. The DSSR from UUC should have the holes at the ends at the exact same distance apart... in fact, you should be able to slip the original rod into the DSSR from the side, the pins going into the holes.

I half-suspect that at some time, your car's transmission was replaced with the M3/328 gearbox. That would explain why the "right" carrier puts your shifter in the wrong place.

[E36 Phantom]

Yeah, I'd also assume the transmission is not the OEM unit, that was my first thought from reading this, especially if there are identification numbers scratched out on the tranny.

[B/\/\W]

However, there was a hiccup in the road, though I should have expected such a thing owning a German car.

I'd expect that of all American cars actually, not German cars. If you knew anything you would know that German manufactured cars were pretty much the only ones built to last in the 1990s. If you choose to have any car that is 14 years old expect for it to have some problems.........................

[E36 Phantom]

I'd expect that of all American cars actually, and German cars. If you knew anything you would know that Japanese manufactured cars were pretty much the only ones built to last in the 1990s. If you choose to have any car that is 14 years old expect for it to have some problems.........................

Fixed :D

Neither American nor European cars have ever been known for good reliability. German cars are better than American cars (most rocks are better than American cars...), but they aren't particularly reliable either. Japanese cars are the most durable, by far. They can take the most, are cheapest to repair, and will still go forever. The drawback is they lack the character of the designs of American cars, and the thrill of the drive of the German cars. They are more like appliances than the extension of the driver like good cars should be. :)

[B/\/\W]

Fixed :D

Neither American nor European cars have ever been known for good reliability. German cars are better than American cars (most rocks are better than American cars...), but they aren't particularly reliable either. Japanese cars are the most durable, by far. They can take the most, are cheapest to repair, and will still go forever. The drawback is they lack the character of the designs of American cars, and the thrill of the drive of the German cars. They are more like appliances than the extension of the driver like good cars should be. :)

Haha that's true actually. I would never drive a Japanese car though because I want pushing power, not power at redline, because I don't drive around at redline. Stupid short stroke cheap-ass Jap engines.

Haha just kidding.

[E36 Phantom]

Haha that's true actually. I would never drive a Japanese car though because I want pushing power, not power at redline, because I don't drive around at redline. Stupid short stroke cheap-ass Jap engines.

Haha just kidding.

99.9% of the time, you're right. The Tundra V-8 VVT-i engine is a nice, torquey engine, and the Supra 7M-GTE engine that I was in had a LONG ass stroke, too long. It gave nice torque, but a low redline. Fun car. One of the few Japanese cars actually worth a damn.

[B/\/\W]

99.9% of the time, you're right. The Tundra V-8 VVT-i engine is a nice, torquey engine, and the Supra 7M-GTE engine that I was in had a LONG ass stroke, too long. It gave nice torque, but a low redline. Fun car. One of the few Japanese cars actually worth a damn.

Haha, that's interesting. I'm off to bed now anyway, say goodnight to La Jolla for me :D

[jasonf860]

Did you ever get this sorted out?

Sounds to me like there were some non-standard parts swapped into your car.

Did you compare the original "repaired" carrier with the new one you got from the dealer? If they were not dimensionally identical, there's the problem.

When the correct carrier is installed, you should be able to look through the hole in the floor of the car where the shifter passes through, and the hole in the carrier should be centered.

OR... did you measure the selector rod that came out of your car? Measure from center of pin to center of the other pin. 189mm or 198mm is right for the 325, depending on production date. The DSSR from UUC should have the holes at the ends at the exact same distance apart... in fact, you should be able to slip the original rod into the DSSR from the side, the pins going into the holes.

I half-suspect that at some time, your car's transmission was replaced with the M3/328 gearbox. That would explain why the "right" carrier puts your shifter in the wrong place.
So, what carrier and selector do you need if you swap in the ZF tranny?

[capnvivi]

Alright, I need to revive this long-dead topic because I think I've finally found the issue. It seems you were right, I haven't checked the serial numbers yet, but I believe I do have a 328/M3 gearbox and I had incorrectly installed a 325 shift arm. I need to get under it and check some numbers, but this seems to make enough sense.

I checked some pictures and this entire problem could have been sorted out if I'd just been more thorough.

The first attachment is a picture of my broken shifter arm. I wasn't sure whether the break was a cut to adjust the length or if it had broken. Either way, it was reinforced and ultimately broke.

The second picture is of a "cranked" shift arm, used in the 328 and M3, and very much looking like the one that fell out of my car (picture borrowed from Understeer.com)

The third picture is what I installed (picture borrowed from Pelican Parts).

I'd love your input, as I was trying to determine the probability that my transmission/gearbox was the ZF, not the Getrag. Ultimately this would explain everything.

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it, it will be nice to have the center console back in my car.

[capnvivi]

bump

[capnvivi]

Problem solved.

I found out today that my car had a jury-rigged E30 transmission installed some time before I bought it.

I'm a little bit upset about this.

That will be the last time I buy a car without an inspection first.