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View Full Version : New E60 Pictures 03/29


Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 08:43 AM
http://homepage.mac.com/z8mania/.Pictures/E60%20leak/5-1.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/z8mania/.Pictures/E60%20leak/5-2.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/z8mania/.Pictures/E60%20leak/5-3.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/z8mania/.Pictures/E60%20leak/5-4.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/z8mania/.Pictures/E60%20leak/5-5.jpg

All pictures are from BMWM5.com

JPinTO
03-29-2003, 08:47 AM
Yep, It's a car! :dunno:

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by JPinTO
Yep, It's a car! :dunno:

I knew that you'd love it :D

LMC
03-29-2003, 08:53 AM
I find the B pillar inoffensive

WILLIA///M
03-29-2003, 08:56 AM
That's quite a stange looking new Altima. No wait, it's probably too big to be an Altima. Must be the new Maxima.

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Topaz330xi
That's quite a stange looking new Altima. No wait, it's probably too big to be an Altima. Must be the new Maxima.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not ;)

:D

MotorenWerke
03-29-2003, 11:12 AM
I like it. A lot.

I am somewhat disapponted about the the tail on the headlights, but the tail lights don't look bad to me

alee
03-29-2003, 11:25 AM
Is the redline really 5000 rpms?

alee
03-29-2003, 11:28 AM
You know what's missing? It doesn't have any side moldings, making it look VERY flat.

Mr. The Edge
03-29-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by alee
You know what's missing? It doesn't have any side moldings, making it look VERY flat.

yup, same problem as the 7


Maybe it'll at least look okay as a Touring model :bigpimp:

Nick325xiT 5spd
03-29-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by alee
Is the redline really 5000 rpms?

That would be a diesel.

PhilH
03-29-2003, 12:25 PM
I really like most shots of it. For some reason, the first picture does nothing for me.

The back of it is surprisingly good looking to me. I like the front view too...very aggressive. It's only from the side that I see too many weird shapes.

gr8330
03-29-2003, 12:32 PM
Thanks Alex very good pictures. If this is the final design :cry: I'm going to have to find a good used e39 or look at MB.

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 12:34 PM
Your Welcome. No the final picture is this :D

alee
03-29-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
Your Welcome. No the final picture is this :D
So Alex, what do YOU think about it? :D

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by alee
So Alex, what do YOU think about it? :D

Headlights are wierd. :eek:

But it is not as scary as the E65.

I still need to see it in person.

I saw a heavy masked one the other day. It was driving on the opposite direction, so no time to check the details or any pictures. I think it looked good.

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 12:59 PM
Help ! Somebody stop me !! :D :bigpimp:

alee
03-29-2003, 01:08 PM
:eeps:

alee
03-29-2003, 01:18 PM
:thumbup:

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 01:20 PM
Troublemaker ! :D

It's over, it's all over. I'm looking forward to see the new beast :thumbup:

V10, 500hp+ :bigpimp:

alee
03-29-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
Troublemaker ! :D

It's over, it's all over. I'm looking forward to see the new beast :thumbup:

V10, 500hp+ :bigpimp:
:mad: BMW just lost me as a repeat customer.

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by alee
:mad: BMW just lost me as a repeat customer.

:nono:

Wait till you test drive the E60 M5 :D


:p

alee
03-29-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
:nono:

Wait till you test drive the E60 M5 :D


:p
I refuse to drive an ugly car. :nono:

gr8330
03-29-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by alee
I refuse to drive an ugly car. :nono:


:thumbup:

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 01:32 PM
I don't think it's ugly. It is different.

You need to see it in person :dunno:

alee
03-29-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
It is different.
There's that phrase again. :tsk: :D

vexed
03-29-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by alee
I refuse to drive an ugly car. :nono:

We all know that you pride yourself on being on the cutting edge of style:yikes:
As far as far as the E60, I will have to see it in person.:confused:

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by alee
There's that phrase again. :tsk: :D

The design is dynamic and fresh. Compare the last generation E-Class with the current one, you'll see very slight changes, which is why I find the E-Class and any Mercedes (other than the SL) a mutant of the old one, but not a 'new' design.

http://www.t3online.cz/imagea/117_2.jpg

http://www.waw.co.kr/album/00_01/benz1/bz_e01.jpg

:rolleyes:

vexed
03-29-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
The design is dynamic and fresh. Compare the last generation E-Class with the current one, you'll see very slight changes, which is why I find the E-Class and any Mercedes (other than the SL) a mutant of the old one, but not a 'new' design.

:rolleyes:

Alex, I agree with you on that but Mercedes tends to be "revolutionary" every other redesign, the current E is evolutionary from the prior model which was a major depatutre from its precedessor. But at the risk of getting flamed I like the new E, it looks good although from the back it is very generic.:p

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by vexed
Alex, I agree with you on that but Mercedes tends to be "revolutionary" every other redesign, the current E is evolutionary from the prior model which was a major depatutre from its precedessor. But at the risk of getting flamed I like the new E, it looks good although from the back it is very generic.:p

That is what I'm saying. I like the way the E-Class looks, but it's not thrilling, not exciting.

It is like just 'nother Mercedes.

E39 was an evolution of E34. But now a new design must come. That will happen with the E60.

EDIT : The current car has accomplished its mission. The sales figures are almost 30-40% down in Europe. They have already lost a huge market share to Audi and Mercedes.

alee
03-29-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
The design is dynamic and fresh. Compare the last generation E-Class with the current one, you'll see very slight changes, which is why I find the E-Class and any Mercedes (other than the SL) a mutant of the old one, but not a 'new' design.
It is hard to quantify what is fresh and what is dynamic. Sure there are evolutionary designs and revolutionary designs, but GOOD designs are the ones that become instant classics.

The Aztek is "different" too...
http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/asstek.jpg

Sure there's nothing else like it, can be seen as a 'fresh' design, but it is also definitely not bound to be an instant classic.

The 360 Modena is also "different"...
http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/360.jpg

It was a fresh new design to replace the 355. I don't need to tell you how it looks. IMHO, it's an example of a design that can be different without losing its brand. You know it's a Ferrari and a majority would agree it's simply beautiful.

The E65/E66 7 series, Z4 and E60 5 series betray many of the styling cues that made a BMW look like a BMW. This is defying tradition, and raping a brand of a look that has helped define and distinguish the brand from all other brands. There is always room for variations and change, this change needs to be something that is easily accepted by others. It shouldn't be different just for the sake of being different.

It is making BMW quirky, unusual and a car you point at because it looks unlike anything else on the road, but you can't tell whether it's ugly, good looking or just another car. That to me is bad design.

vexed
03-29-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
That is what I'm saying. I like the way the E-Class looks, but it's not thrilling, not exciting.

It is like just 'nother Mercedes.

E39 was an evolution of E34. But now a new design must come. That will happen with the E60.

Now the question is this change for the better:dunno: I am sure the E60 looks better in the flesh, but those eyebrows are a bit odd.

alee
03-29-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
That is what I'm saying. I like the way the E-Class looks, but it's not thrilling, not exciting.

It is like just 'nother Mercedes.
I can't say that the E60 is particularly thrilling in design. Different yes, thrilling no.

The MB SL500 is thrilling.

Old...
http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/500sl-old.jpg


New...
http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/sl500-new.jpg

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 02:08 PM
Sure, BMW could give the job to Pininfarina, but you are comparing a company which sold 7000 cars, with a company which sold 1 million units last year.

BMW's target market is totaly different than Ferrari, where Ferrari must design a car which aerodynamically must held up at speeds beyond 200mph. In that case you don't have too much alternatives.

BTW, Enzo is also a Pininfarina design :rolleyes: It looks 'different' as well, but it's far away from being beautiful. Compare it with 288GTO and you know what I'm talking about.

As for 'betraying', what is typical BMW other than the kidney and the Hofmeister knick ? :dunno:

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by alee
I can't say that the E60 is particularly thrilling in design. Different yes, thrilling no.

The MB SL500 is thrilling.

read my post above, I said 'other than the new SL'.

I like the new SL design very much. And yes, it's thrilling and exciting.

alee
03-29-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
read my post above, I said 'other than the new SL'.

I like the new SL design very much. And yes, it's thrilling and exciting.
I saw that... but it's a pretty damn good example that would be a shame to exclude. BMW is capable of making wonderful designs just like this.

Alex Baumann
03-29-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by alee
I saw that... but it's a pretty damn good example that would be a shame to exclude. BMW is capable of making wonderful designs just like this.

Unfortunately, BMW couldn't manage to succeed in that area. The 8 Series sold like trash. :tsk:

Dr. Phil
03-29-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by vexed
We all know that you pride yourself on being on the cutting edge of style:yikes:
As far as far as the E60, I will have to see it in person.:confused:
The hair was a dead give away wasn't it :dunno:

:rofl: :neener: :str8pimpi

Kaz
03-29-2003, 03:39 PM
Not only do the hood and trunk cut lines look out of place, they are SO BIG. Looks like you can slide a magazine into them. In a day when everybody brags about how close their tolerances are, this looks sloppy. And those on the rear quarterpanel remind me of a Saturn ION.

As for the E-class, yes, the redesign looks a lot like the W210 but just SO much better. I've always disliked the way the 210 looks. The 211, OTOH, is perfect. It's the details that count, and the E60 seems to lack them.

gr8330
03-29-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
I don't think it's ugly. It is different.

You need to see it in person :dunno:

Ok I'll give you "different" and I will go see it in person, but it doesn't look to promising. :eek: Maybe this isnít a picture of the production model and they are doing something about the headlights and the odd angles around the hood and doors, maybe :dunno: can I add, make a slight change to the trunk also.
I know they canít please everyone and I can vote with my check book, but they have done so well in the past. Ok I'm through ranting.

Spom3
03-29-2003, 08:45 PM
i would prefer the rear more kind of like this way

JakeC
03-30-2003, 01:24 AM
Comparision pictures:
e39 (I know, touring, but this is the best front shot I could find)
http://www.bmwnation.com/images/gallery/5/e39/e39_5_touring_03_s.jpg

e60:
http://homepage.mac.com/z8mania/.Pictures/E60%20leak/5-3.jpg


I would take the e60, thank you! :thumbup:

bmw540i
03-30-2003, 01:30 AM
Everybody will get used to it and after we see it with aftermarket body kits, wheels etc. everyone will want one.

anyboyd know the specifications of the new v8

ZBB 325Ci
03-30-2003, 05:56 AM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann


As for 'betraying', what is typical BMW other than the kidney and the Hofmeister knick ? :dunno:


I haven't chimed in yet, but the e60 is like Bangle's other recent work -- some parts of it are well done, but the devil is in the details, and the details are what is bad on the e65/66, Z4, and now the e60. On the e60, the only thing he's left from traditional BMW styling is the Hofmeister kink. Here's 4 huge design flaws where I see the e60 betraying traditional BMW design:

- Kidney Grille: why is it so lazy looking? why can't they design one that is taller than it is wide (or at least relatively square)? why can't the top & bottom lines and the right & left lines be parrallel with rounded corners. This is one design trait that should never be close to being criticized as being too Pontiac-like. I can accept change and mild tweaks to it, but its starting to stray too far from a true kidney-shape.
- Replacing the traditional body-long shoulder line that is slightly narrower below the shoulder than above it. It was shortened on the X5, e46 facelifts and e65. Now its gone. Its become a me-too crease line on the body. Hide the grille and Hoffmeister kink on older designs and you'd know it was a BMW. Hide them on the e60 and it looks like a Peugot.
- Loss of the driver-oriented cockpit. This was a unique interior design cue. I'm not complaining that the e60 looks bad (its quite nice looking, except for the 2nd hump for the nav screen, which I'm sure could have been better integrated). But flattening it out instead of angling the center toward the driver is killing a great tradition.
- Headlight / Turn signal placement. The eyebrows have to go (and the latest rumors on an e65 facelift appear to have them on the way out). At least the the headlight positioning on the e60 align with the grille (unlike the e65 where the lights are low and grille high). But the round headlights flanked by amber turn signals have been used for 30+ years.

I know Bangle wants to design "unique" BMWs, but unique doesn't have to be ugly and can be different. Here's a couple thoughts:
- This has been evolving over the past 20 years, but why not bring back the shark-nose? It was a very unique trait to BMW. Now the front just slopes back more and more. The CS1 concept even used the shark-nose and looked modern at the same time
- DON'T COPY Japanese headlight designs that pull the headlights half way back to the windshield. just shows lack of your own creativity.
- Maybe bring back what they did on the the e34, where the narrow grille ID'd an inline 6 and the wider grille ID'd a V8 -- but they were still essentially the same traditional grille.
- Either use the panel gaps as part of the design, or design them to "hide" but don't have a design where the panel gaps break-up the design. As others have said, other manufacturers strive to have smallest panel gaps... these appear to be huge.

Alex Baumann
03-30-2003, 08:57 AM
@ZBB

You have very important points there.

But,

Hide them on the e60 and it looks like a Peugot

Hide them on any car and you have another car. But the grill and the Hofmeister knick is still there.

Your proposals are very minor changes which could be apllied to a facelift but not a model change, IMO. (at least not a model change led by Bangle and Co. ;) )

I'm reading Helmut Panke's report for 2002. No matter we like it or hate it, but the E65/E66 sold 12% more cars than its predecessor in the same time of period. So, it is a success in that matter. He is standing to Bangle's and his team's design and saying again that a new model is a decision of the complete top level management rather than Bangle's own.

As I wrote before, the sales of the E39 have decreased 20% in the last year. With a few minor cosmetic tricks, you have no chance to compete against the E-Class and Audi. Alone engines will not save the 5 Series, the face is old.

But like I said, BMW is coming to the final match, which will be played in 2005 with the E90. E46 contributes to 61% of the total sales of the AG. Screw the new one, you are out of the game.

JPinTO
03-30-2003, 02:33 PM
BMW marketing again has got it nailed on the head... do NOT show any new BMW design in a light color... EVER!

This grey is being heavily used in Z4 marketing. It's the new Titanium silver. Fresh now... barferifically overused in a few years.

The design is less radical than the E65... we'll all get used to it.

I like this angle& color:
http://www.bmw545.com/0329real1.jpg

Jspeed
03-30-2003, 03:05 PM
Just wanted to see how it would look like w/o the pointy element which I despise.

SONET
03-30-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by JPinTO
[B]BMW marketing again has got it nailed on the head... do NOT show any new BMW design in a light color... EVER!
Silver shows the lines of a car better than any other [standard] color, where as dark colors hide lines. I guess the marketing department realizes they need to hide something. :dunno:

--SONET

bmw325
03-30-2003, 11:03 PM
BMW's recent designs got me thinking that I'd better resign myself to ugliness when I buy my next car-- since that seems to be the "wave of the future". But, I recently saw the new Mercedes E class parked in my neighborhood. I stopped and stared at it-- it was so nice and refreshing to see a new car design that I could really enjoy (I remember feeling the same way when I first saw the e46). Too bad it has wierd brakes and no stick in the US (and costs a lot more than I can afford). I think Mercedes has done a good job of modernizing their cars, while keeping them looking good. Audi too. These latest BMW designs just seem to just have lots gimmicks applied to a bland shape. The Pontiac comparison is, unfortunately, a good one. For some reason, I'm most sad about the interiors. THey're so ugly, dysfunctional and cheap looking on the e60 and e65. Really, a shame.

Chris posted a pic of his interior on another thread. Look at how perfect, beautiful, teutonic and functional this interior is:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=302640

And how Buick-like the e60's is.

Spom3
03-31-2003, 12:31 AM
and the front like this...

adelaide
03-31-2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
@ZBB

You have very important points there.

But,



Hide them on any car and you have another car. But the grill and the Hofmeister knick is still there.

Your proposals are very minor changes which could be apllied to a facelift but not a model change, IMO. (at least not a model change led by Bangle and Co. ;) )

I'm reading Helmut Panke's report for 2002. No matter we like it or hate it, but the E65/E66 sold 12% more cars than its predecessor in the same time of period. So, it is a success in that matter. He is standing to Bangle's and his team's design and saying again that a new model is a decision of the complete top level management rather than Bangle's own.

As I wrote before, the sales of the E39 have decreased 20% in the last year. With a few minor cosmetic tricks, you have no chance to compete against the E-Class and Audi. Alone engines will not save the 5 Series, the face is old.

But like I said, BMW is coming to the final match, which will be played in 2005 with the E90. E46 contributes to 61% of the total sales of the AG. Screw the new one, you are out of the game.

The above is what matters more than the armchair designers here....the fact that despite all the online critics, the HARD NUMBERS show that the Bangle designs are doing well.

People hate change. I find it somewhat silly that people comment so strongly without seeing the car. In many parts of the world, the new 7 kicks all others in terms of looking modern. In asia, where a crapload of these are sold, everyone is buying 7's as they have much more presence then the S class.

These guys who make the call design cars and guide a huge corporation for a living. I'm sure they have an idea on what they are doing....