What mileage is too high?

[-Matt-]

I am in the UK and searching for a good used e36 3 series. It must be manual transmission and a 6 cylinder engine. I would really like the SE spec to get the trip computer. Aircon and a CD player would also be nice. The car must also be reasonably presentable, so no rust or dents etc.

I have seen a few of these go on ebay for about £1000 but these have been quite high mileage ~150k. In a different thread I have already been advised that it would be better to save up to around £2000 and get a slightly newer model.

I am a bit impatient and I really want to get one now! With my budget of around £1000 there is a trade off between younger but very high mileage cars (ie 1998 but with 220k) or older lower mileage ones (ie 1992 with 90k).

I know BMW's have a reputation for running to very high mileage but at what point do the engines tend to give up?

What would your advice be in relation to choosing newer+high mileage vs older+lower mileage?

Does the same apply for diesel engines?

Any advice will be greatfully received.

Cheers
Matt

[Pirate_copy]

If an E36 has been looked after, i would not discount it if it was what i wanted unless it was over 170k miles

They will go onto 250k easy if serviced and not ragged to hell and back

We have people on here with well over 220k miles and still run sweet as a nut

Diesel are good for 300k no worries

[B/\/\W]

I don't think you'll get a 6 cylinder BMW worth having for £1k, you'll need to spend more. It would make all the difference if you did save up. 6 months down the line you may regret buying the car and you'll probably want a newer and nicer one.

I got my 318i with zero mechanical problems for £1200 with 134k on the clock at about 12 years old. At the time a 320i of similar age and mileage cost upwards of £1500, and anything better was completely out of my price range at the time.

[rwg]

I bought my car with 195k (U.S.) on the clock. I have put about 12k on it since and I was just thinking this morning how much I love the engine. I wish it were a bit faster, but it runs great. I expect this car to hit 350k or maybe even 400k before it dies (although I doubt I will keep it as my primary car that long).

Some of them don't stand the test of time. But the ones that do run forever. If the car is well maintained, the mileage is pretty much irrelevant. Just be aware that you may have some maintenance issues to take care of if you buy a high mileage car. Mine was mechanically taken care of, but I had to replace the all of the suspension pieces. (Who puts 195k on original shocks? THey had cosmoline on them . . .)

[ianiac]

297k US on mine..

[Mikey318i]

Agree with all the other posts and would like to add my own experiences.

I bought my 318i a few years ago at 124k and got about 25,000 miles out of it, ran it up and down the country and it never broke down or cut out once. Spent about 150 quid in maintenence. Only reason I sold was because I wanted something different.

My friend only just got rid of his 318i which again was just serviced when it needed it and he got rid of it at 176k still running fine.

Have just bought a 97 328i which drives pretty much like new (full dealer history). It has 150k on the clock but the engine was replaced at 50k (this was not because the engine died), so it's only done 101k. I am sure I will easily see the 200k mark.

Another guy I knew had an E30 with 220k on the clock.

Just get one with loads of service history and receipts if you can and it's worth saving and waiting for a slightly nicer one. A bargain basement model will end up costing more in the long run. Everyone says this but it's true! I'm really glad I extended my budget ever so slightly for the right one :)

P.S. I can totally relate to being impatient!

[-Matt-]

Thanks for your replies. I am really encouraged that so many of you are hitting very high mileages without problems.

@ B/\/\W:
I don't think you'll get a 6 cylinder BMW worth having for £1k, you'll need to spend more. It would make all the difference if you did save up. 6 months down the line you may regret buying the car and you'll probably want a newer and nicer one.

Part of the reason I am so impatient is that I am starting a new job and don't have a car at all at the moment. For now the most I can afford is about £1000 and I just want something that will be great fun to drive and reliable. If everything goes well with the new job I would certainly intend to buy a newer & nicer BMW within a year.

I don't want to have too many garage bills over the next few months.

Does this change your advice?

[samsonite]

If you will replace it within a year then you could get something cheaper, but the risk with a higher mileage or older car is that it may go wrong during the year and either cost a lot to fix or you'll have to buy another cheap one.

I was in a similar position to some extent as I had a limited budget (basically what I got from selling my Punto).

I went for the 318i as the smaller engined cars will tend to be newer, lower mileage and/or have more equipment for the same money.

[B/\/\W]

Thanks for your replies. I am really encouraged that so many of you are hitting very high mileages without problems.

@ B/\/\W:


Part of the reason I am so impatient is that I am starting a new job and don't have a car at all at the moment. For now the most I can afford is about £1000 and I just want something that will be great fun to drive and reliable. If everything goes well with the new job I would certainly intend to buy a newer & nicer BMW within a year.

I don't want to have too many garage bills over the next few months.

Does this change your advice?

Yeah, go for a cheap and old model with reasonable mileage, but won't need work on it. Junk that in after a year for a 325 or 328.

You don't necessarily need to go for a 6 cylinder if you are intending on getting a nicer BMW in a year once you've got some money together.

[PhilipWOT]

I wouldn't buy an E36 with over 100K miles unless it has full maintenance records showing that it has had all work done at a dealership or a certified BMW service center. These cars can last forever with proper maintenance, but if you buy a car from someone who cut corners on maintaining it you'll just be buying a headache.

[-Matt-]

Your comments are appealing to my sensible side! Perhaps as an interim solution I would be better served by an early but low mileage 318. (It seems that I definitely can't afford a decent 325TDs).

I am even beginning to think that the "compact" body shape might be more practical with it's hatch back. Do the rear seats also fold forward on this body style? The only thing that is dissuading me is the lack of multilink suspension.

Perhaps then the "touring" version would be the optimum for me. I have always quite liked the practicality of an estate. The only problem there is that I think a 1.8L engine is going to feel really underpowered in such a large car.

I will try to re-state my original question more clearly:

Which is more important - mileage or age?

ie: If the mileage is the same are there any significant differences between the same model from 91 and from 99?

... Should I be just as happy buying a (cheaper) car from 91 provided the mileage is low, the condition good and the service history present?

[-Matt-]

Looking at the stats on this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series#E36

It seems that a post 95 318 ti or is compact is probably going to be quite a good option for me. These are certainly quite a bit cheaper than the 6 cylinder models and hopefully without too much of a performance penalty (only 8hp between this and a 320).

Of course this is from wikipedia so it could be completely wrong!

Any thoughts? Am I arriving at a sensible choice given my circumstances?

EDIT: Just checking the prices and these actually seem to be worth more than an equivalent 320! Looks like I'm going to be walking for a while yet!

[Mikey318i]

I couldn't tell the difference between y 318 and a 320 I tried - perhaps time has diminished what minimal bhp gain it had!

A nice model with service history should be possible for 1k if you're thorough, I would have imagined. where are you looking? ebay? autotrader?

[-Matt-]

Thanks for the glimmer of hope! Yeah I'm looking on both of those sites.

Is your 318 a "ti/si" or just an "i" it seems the standard "i" should be only be 115hp with the "ti/si" being 140hp and the 320 being 148-150hp. I would expect to notice a 35hp step but I guess there are a lot of other factors?

I am located on the south coast and maybe this is "grass is always greener..." syndrome but it seems that prices seem a little lower further north. I guess I wouldn't mind a lengthy train journey to go and collect a car but I would have to be absolutely certain it wasn't going to turn out being a rust bucket before I committed to the journey.

[efanton]

If an E36 has been looked after, i would not discount it if it was what i wanted unless it was over 170k miles

They will go onto 250k easy if serviced and not ragged to hell and back

We have people on here with well over 220k miles and still run sweet as a nut

Diesel are good for 300k no worries

Totally agree. it not the mileage its the owner.:thumbup:

If you cannot get an official service history when buying a car then you are totallly relying on the owner's word. An honest owner will tel you the problems he has had (minior or major). If someone tell you they have had a car for 75k with no major problems and no service history then simply walk away ( I would suspect they are not telling he truth).

Remember you are the one in power not the seller. Something is only worth what the buyer is prepared to pay for it.

[-Matt-]

I have just been reading up on the nikasil engine block issue. It seems that this gives me yet another good reason to opt for either a 4 cylinder engine or a very early 6 cylinder one.

[Mikey318i]

It didn't affect all 6 cylinder engines, and you can phone BMW and verify with them if the engine was changed under warranty (which is what I did). A woman at BMW actually told me 'if it isn't showing symptoms by now, chances it never will'... her exact words but not sure how true that is! It didn't affect the 325i.

However for what you're looking for, in that price range, 4 cylinder sounds best. Personally still reckon you should save a bit more and get a 325, for the fun factor. It's not just about the speed gains it's about the smoothness. Plenty of 318is have been ragged into the ground driven beyond their capabilties. :)

Either way it all comes back to service history...

[Davellis]

I've just bought a 91 318 with 149k on it, but BMW sh up to 126k then full history after that at a loacl garage. loads of receipts, much o the common failings replaced and I'm pretty happy with it. Until I come back to this thread with a horror story!

[Mikey318i]

Nothing's guaranteed but yours sounds like it's been very well looked after and as long as you give it the same care you'll be reet.

I intend to be a lot more careful with me 328 than I was with me 318 (purely as my 318 was a complete bargain/workhorse), but have always wondered at what mileage people generally stop using main dealer for servicing and switch to local garage / specialist.

134k was the last time mine went to a main BMW dealer and the subsequent Inspection II was carried out and stamped by an 'Independant BMW Specialist' at 145k.

So far so good with mine and I hope it is as reliable and pleasurable as my 318 was. I'm taking great steps to learn all the things that can go wrong so I can hopefully nip them in the bud early. Did the same with the 318 and it was good info to know. To be honest the only crap thing about my 318 was the door cards and window clips.... but that's every e36's issue.

[320what?]

if it's less than 110k - 120k i'd say it's good, but condition is much more important. You can kill a good engine after 50k by putting **** oil and using crappy fuels. or keep it going for 200k with little fuss by always servicing it.

i'd say chances are that ones that are well serviced will cost a lot (just ask pirate for how much he'd be willing to let his go for, just as example). so you will end up with compromise, either pay more for good, or pay less for one that needs work. So get one that is more or less ok, and above 180k I'd say it's too much, unless it's a 1993 or something.

[mootothemax]

Hiya,

I bought my '92 325i (saloon) in May for £900. It had 150k on the clock at the time, but had a stamped service history until the previous owner - very good mechanic - took it on a few years before. It's been looked after properly (well... until it came across me and my shoddy just-passed driving habits, poor thing), and hardly drinks a drop of oil.

It has a couple of problems: I need to replace the driver's side window regulator so that I can actually use the damned thing without the glass falling out. The power steering reserve also has a slow leak in it, and I've had to top it up twice since May. I've also had to replace the brake discs, but meh, don't count :)

That said, for a 16-year-old, £900, London-abused car, I'm amazed that the above are my only issues. It's a pleasure to drive, hurrah!

[rwg]

Wow - some backwards thinking in some of these posts.

If it's a late model car and has a ton of miles on it, most of those miles HAVE To be highway miles. Think about it. Highway miles put next to no wear on a car compared to city driving miles.

In spite of what BMW would like you to believe, they are not the only people that can service BMWs properly. An attentive DIYer can take better care of a car on his own then someone that goes only to the dealer, but only goes in for regular service intervals when the computer claims you need them. If you are interested in a car and it looks good, the thing to do is take it to a mechanic you trust and have them inspect it and tell you if there are any problems or outstanding maintenance issues.

You have to plan on putting some money into maintenance if you keep the car for any length of time. The cooling system will need work every 50-70k miles until you replace all of the parts with the aftermarket more robust versions, for example. But if you are prepared for the routine maintenance, the cars will go forever.

[-Matt-]

Hi rwg,

You make a very good point about motorway miles. I agree that a recent high miler will have accumulated the miles much quicker than an older model. It therefore seems likely that the miles will be motorway ones.

Besides checking the service history etc are there any practical tests that I could make in order to asses the condition of the engine? (For example listening out for particular sounds etc)?

[jason_recliner]

Well, Bang-Clunk-Fart is not neccessarily good.

Have someone turn the key from DEAD COLD while you watch for blue smoke out the exhaust. This indicates wear around pistons and valve seals.

[rwg]

Matt, if it were me, I would spend the $100 for a good independent BMW mechanic to do an inspection. They should do a compression test - the best way to tell if the engine is in good shape and has even compression across all the cylinders. They will also check for common maintenance items and let you know what looks new, what looks old, what needs to be done right away and what you might be looking at in the next 12 months.

The blue smoke test is certainly a good test to make you at least inspect more thoroughly. If you can get the car on a lift, you can check to see if there are any oil leaks - a dry car will be dirty, but completely dry. A car with an oil leak will typically have oil all over the place. You can check the water pump and thermostat areas for a white residue - a good indication of a coolant leak. You can look inside the spark plug areas to see if there is oil around the plugs, but you have to remove a few parts to be able to tell. that leak indicates a gasket that needs help, but it's a common area to find leaks and lots of people just let it go.

If you can hear any type of clicking or knocking sound from a BMW in-line 6, the engine is probably in trouble. But that's pretty extreme. An engine with failed compression on one cylinder is an expensive engine to repair, but if you don't check for it and aren't familiar with the power the car should make, you probably wouldn't notice it.

Anyway, I am sure I have forgotten a few things, but those were my starting points before I took cars I was interested in to the mechnic.