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View Full Version : Almost Killed Tonight------ I want it Gone


Evlengr
01-13-2008, 02:28 PM
That's it. Tonight was the final straw. We were almost killed as a result of this tranny.

I will be calling an attorney in the morning and BMWNA.

I want this thing gone! And, so does my wife!

Tonight while coming home from simple Mall shopping with my wife and three year old daughter a driver started to drift into our lane(of which I was in the far left lane). Since there was traffic directly behind me and nothing in front I attempted to accelerate away from him. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. I ended up riding into the center meridian while staring straight at the end of a metal divider. Needless to say you dont hard brake with one set of tires on asphalt and another in dirt. After laying on the horn and running over several orange flex tubes he veered away. The car was not damaged, but my wife and daughter were in tears.:eek:

This is the third time I have come close to a massive or fatal accident as a result of this piece of crap trannsmission.:mad:

Anybody interested in this wonderful 2007 X3 please feel free to PM me.

"Vatkens" if your reading please let BMWNA know this means I will be exploring every legal oppurtunity and informing everyone available until this thing is gone. And I am not doing it at my expense.

hunterz4
01-13-2008, 02:42 PM
That is the worst yet. Can't take any chances as far as family safety is concerned that's for sure. Glad to here everyone is physically okay. I am sure that Mrs. E is still traumatized.

zznalg
01-13-2008, 03:44 PM
Get rid of it. Don't drive it again. I had an equally fatal flaw in my 2007 Audi A3 2.0T manual. The engine power would die unpredictably. I put in in the garage and bought (financed) another car. Life is too precious.

berbutler
01-13-2008, 06:21 PM
I have had the same thing happen to me a couple of times as well - the lack of response when you press the accelerator when you are in a dangerous situation or just passing another vehicle for that matter, which has scared the heck out of me once too often!

At this point, whenever I pass or need to accelerate quickly, I slam the gear shift into Sports Mode eliminating the response problem.

Granted, I should not have to do this, but owning this car had forced me to drive this way.

I am so condtioned from so many unfortunate situations, that dropping into Sports Mode is now quick and second nature to me.

I live with it - others may not..............

BB

That's it. Tonight was the final straw. We were almost killed as a result of this tranny.

I will be calling an attorney in the morning and BMWNA.

I want this thing gone! And, so does my wife!

Tonight while coming home from simple Mall shopping with my wife and three year old daughter a driver started to drift into our lane(of which I was in the far left lane). Since there was traffic directly behind me and nothing in front I attempted to accelerate away from him. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. I ended up riding into the center meridian while staring straight at the end of a metal divider. Needless to say you dont hard brake with one set of tires on asphalt and another in dirt. After laying on the horn and running over several orange flex tubes he veered away. The car was not damaged, but my wife and daughter were in tears.:eek:

This is the third time I have come close to a massive or fatal accident as a result of this piece of crap trannsmission.:mad:

Anybody interested in this wonderful 2007 X3 please feel free to PM me.

"Vatkens" if your reading please let BMWNA know this means I will be exploring every legal oppurtunity and informing everyone available until this thing is gone. And I am not doing it at my expense.

hunterz4
01-13-2008, 06:38 PM
I have had the same thing happen to me a couple of times as well - the lack of response when you press the accelerator when you are in a dangerous situation or just passing another vehicle for that matter, which has scared the heck out of me once too often!

At this point, whenever I pass or need to accelerate quickly, I slam the gear shift into Sports Mode eliminating the response problem.

Granted, I should not have to do this, but owning this car had forced me to drive this way.

I am so condtioned from so many unfortunate situations, that dropping into Sports Mode is now quick and second nature to me.

I live with it - others may not..............

BB

While I agree that necessity is the mother of invention or adaptation as the case may be, you should not have to do that to a car with a plus $40k msrp.

MMME30W
01-13-2008, 06:51 PM
:wow:

Man, that stinks. Good luck getting resolution, E.

bmwadam
01-13-2008, 06:52 PM
Thats what they get for using this 6spd GM tranny. (At least I think it is GM that built it, if not it is ZF) As much trouble as you have had though, EvLengr, I would just drive the friggin thing down to the dealer, park it in their drop off bay, and tell the SA that you will not take it back unless they A: buy the POS back, or B Give you a manual gearbox car. Although I would think they should do a buyback at this point. Either way you need to drop it off and demand a loaner....OR go pick up a cheap car somewhere you can pay cash for and drive it around as you commence the legal battle.

thebmw
01-13-2008, 08:48 PM
Thats what they get for using this 6spd GM tranny. (At least I think it is GM that built it, if not it is ZF) As much trouble as you have had though, EvLengr, I would just drive the friggin thing down to the dealer, park it in their drop off bay, and tell the SA that you will not take it back unless they A: buy the POS back, or B Give you a manual gearbox car. Although I would think they should do a buyback at this point. Either way you need to drop it off and demand a loaner....OR go pick up a cheap car somewhere you can pay cash for and drive it around as you commence the legal battle.

Guys (and gals), this has nothing to do with a "GM" tranny. GM makes a lot more cars than BMW yet they haven't had any tranny failure recalls recently (as far as my research has shown). This is a BMW engineering auto tranny issue (regardless of who subcontracted to make it). I've been complaining about BMW auto trannies for years and so I personally know that this issue is not new and BMW has not publicly responded. Their dealers, in my experience, deny any tranny problems. This solitary issue has prevented me from buying any more BMW auto trannies.

Sonoman707
01-13-2008, 09:08 PM
Needless to say you dont hard brake with one set of tires on asphalt and another in dirt.

Actually - the ABS / DSC system would handle it quite well.

Nick325xiT 5spd
01-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Sounds to me like 99% of the problem is that you're an incompetent driver.

kjboyd
01-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Oh my god. Nick, that was totally uncalled for. What an ass you are.

doubledeclutch
01-13-2008, 10:11 PM
Hey man, glad everyone is ok. The transmission may or may not be crap, but sounds like you made a driving mistake there too. You need to get out of that X3 now. I think we all saw it a long time ago that you and your car were not meant for eachother. Anyway, best luck finding something that you like.

obmd1
01-13-2008, 10:25 PM
So two people have mentioned a driver's mistake here.

Putting aside for a moment that the car should be able to provide whatever maneuver the driver gives input for, ill-advised or otherwise, what would you have had him do? Brake to avoid the side-swipe? He said he had people behind him. Surely the safer route of avoidance was to move forward of the sideways moving car to the right.

Am I missing something, or is there something to the sanctimony?

And if the tranny does not provide a kickdown when requested, there is certainly an issue. It should not be tolerated. I mean, all those Pinto drivers should just have avoided being rear-ended.

HT417
01-14-2008, 01:03 AM
Actually - the ABS / DSC system would handle it quite well.

+1 to that.

@Nick - you're just way out of line with that comment. None of us were in the car. :thumbdwn:.

@Evlengr - sorry to hear about that experience. ANY car should have been able to handle a little sudden kick-down acceleration and avoidance maneuver IMO. But a $40K+ premium mark, sports reputation car should have made you look like a genius while doing it. I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

From what I've experienced myself and read here, full throttle kick-down may not provide the quickest response. It seems by doing so that you force the computers to think too much and delay responding until they get it figured out. When a salesman was showing off a 535xi to me he floored it from about 20mph and it took forever to respond. Mine, 2008 X3, responds quicker to less aggressive inputs but I also use the SD trick to quickly get the revs up when I anticipate passing.

zznalg
01-14-2008, 06:43 AM
E's car failed to do what it is designed to do and must be able to do with certainty. Whatever secondary maneuver or response anyone would have done to compensate for the vehicle's failure is irrelevant. The X3 failed in a way that could have been fatal. Therefore, even if there was driver error -which I see no evidence of- the failure in this case is that of E's vehicle.

Evlengr
01-14-2008, 07:11 AM
Sounds to me like 99% of the problem is that you're an incompetent driver.


Just to clarify some things here.


Why would I trust a car to brake correctly if it can't even shift correctly.
I used to race cars and have the trophies to show for it.
I was lucky enough to have instructions from the PA state police and secret service driving instructors when I was younger.
and the problem was that the vehicle DID NOT accelerate as it should have. YOU NEVER brake with an unknown driver in close proximity behind you. So braking was not an option period!
You essentially want to minimize the point of impact if you can't avoid it. And getting another driver killed is not the way to do it.


Since I will not lower myself to your level that is that.:nono:

Thanks to the others for their intelligent comments. :)

Andrew*Debbie
01-14-2008, 07:13 AM
Thats what they get for using this 6spd GM tranny.


Unless GM provides the software to BMW as part of the contract, I think GM is off the hook here.

Other BMWs as well as other car brands use the same transmission and don't have similar problems.


This sounds more like DTC or DME than the transmission. We aren't talking about a jerky shift. The engine wasn't putting out power in response to a valid throttle request. If there was a hard problem with the vavletronic or other drive-by-wire hardware, the SES light should be on. I wonder if the DTC lamp was flashing...

Something like an intermittent signal from the steering angle sensor or accelerometer maybe. But that is just a guess. Faulty wheel speed sensors make the ABS warning light come on. At least they used to. I'm not sure about an '07.


In any case EE's dealer has had enough attempts to fix this problem. Time to get him into a new car.

viii_ball
01-14-2008, 08:14 AM
This sounds more like DTC or DME than the transmission.

I have noticed that if I turn the DTC OFF, the transmission operates like a normal vehicle. I do not get the jerky shifting. There is much better accelerator response. Even the roll to a stop sign, the down shifting is relatively smooth.

Nick325xiT 5spd
01-14-2008, 08:27 AM
Just to clarify some things here.


Why would I trust a car to brake correctly if it can't even shift correctly.
I used to race cars and have the trophies to show for it.
I was lucky enough to have instructions from the PA state police and secret service driving instructors when I was younger.
and the problem was that the vehicle DID NOT accelerate as it should have. YOU NEVER brake with an unknown driver in close proximity behind you. So braking was not an option period!
You essentially want to minimize the point of impact if you can't avoid it. And getting another driver killed is not the way to do it.


Since I will not lower myself to your level that is that.:nono:

Thanks to the others for their intelligent comments. :)
A vehicle with a good automatic will almost never generate delta v on command. You are driving a slow vehicle with a transmission that you already knew you was balky, yet you insisted on depending on said balky transmission for delta v immediately. Braking is not generally ideal, but it is a great deal more certain, and there are very few cars that can accelerate faster than they can slow down (and most of those are defective).

Moreover, if you couldn't safely maneuver out of the way, you're better off letting him hit you. With your racing experience you should know damned well that contact can be better than the alternative.

kjboyd
01-14-2008, 08:38 AM
I've tried that and it makes no difference.

I have noticed that if I turn the DTC OFF, the transmission operates like a normal vehicle. I do not get the jerky shifting. There is much better accelerator response. Even the roll to a stop sign, the down shifting is relatively smooth.

kjboyd
01-14-2008, 08:39 AM
What's your problem Nick? he had a child in the car for god sake!!!

Nick325xiT 5spd
01-14-2008, 08:48 AM
What's your problem Nick? he had a child in the car for god sake!!!
Having a child in the car makes it a good idea to voluntarily drive off the road and head for the median?

MMME30W
01-14-2008, 08:54 AM
Having a child in the car makes it a good idea to voluntarily drive off the road and head for the median?

#1) You weren't there

#2) Stop digging. You are in a hole. Unless your next response is along the lines of "I'm sorry, that was a thoughtless comment" my impression of you will nosedive significantly.

ffej
01-14-2008, 09:15 AM
#1) You weren't there

#2) Stop digging. You are in a hole. Unless your next response is along the lines of "I'm sorry, that was a thoughtless comment" my impression of you will nosedive significantly.

You're right, he wasn't there. And while his delivery is a bit lacking, Nick brings up a thoroughly valid point right here. To me, it's paramount to the issue and should NOT be ignored.
You are driving a slow vehicle with a transmission that you already knew you was balky, yet you insisted on depending on said balky transmission for delta v immediately.

When I first read the post, I couldn't figure out why the life of me the OP, after having issues with the transmission already, decided that he could count on it in this particular case. After reading that other owners use sport mode to remedy the situation, I'm wondering why an experienced and thinking driver would not use that method as default, instead of 'just in case'. No one likes to be told that they did something wrong, especially in a situation where potential harm for family exists. But I have learned something that is almost completely undeniable. One mistake never leads to an accident. It's how that first mistake is reacted to that dictates the situation.

To the OP, I'm not trying to single you out. I'm very glad that the only damage done was severely frayed nerves - and fury with the car on your part. Thoughtfully explain to BMW that the problem is, eventually, going to get someone killed and it needs to be remedied immediately, if not sooner. If you have to, point out the costs of a negligent death lawsuit vs a recall. Good luck

Evlengr
01-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Having a child in the car makes it a good idea to voluntarily drive off the road and head for the median?
What he fails to realize that due to the other portion of my driving skills that are safety based --- I was able to hug my family and hopefully get rid of this thing in one piece.

Whereas using his driving technique would have been a different story. My wife and daughter were seated directly at point of impact.

That's like the old story of hit my hand and holding it up in front of your face. Only to pull it away and say ha ha missed.:confused:

Lawsuits don't bring back people.

obmd1
01-14-2008, 09:31 AM
I know that there are some self-proclaimed mavens amongst you, but to me it seems to be a matter of common sense.

allowing one's self to be hit= two car accident
braking= two car accident
median travel= one car accident

at worse.

An more on topic: this whole thing would be moot if BMW pulled the tranny from the market and issued a recall. Unfortunately, this won't happen until there is a legal feeding frenzy

sc 540i
01-14-2008, 09:58 AM
Sorry to hear about your unfortunate happening. I'm not going to comment on what you should or shouldn't have done, because the tranny should be working in perfect order is the bottom line. Sooo how much do you want for it :D.

Havelcek
01-14-2008, 10:00 AM
My 08 X3 is currently in the shop for the transmission problems and I have already stressed to my wife very carefully not to depend on the accelerator in an emergency situation. She has already had the car fail to respond while making a left turn once.

Given that you'll never know that something like this will happen until it happens, and you could go 6 months without being in a panic situation so you really don't know if its actually fixed, at this point I'd prefer to get rid of mine altogether as well.

My wife and I make a pretty hefty combined salary and BMW has missed out on a whole bunch of future expensive car purchases with this death trap. Fool me once, etc etc.

cintroncar
01-14-2008, 10:06 AM
My 08 X3 is currently in the shop for the transmission problems and I have already stressed to my wife very carefully not to depend on the accelerator in an emergency situation. She has already had the car fail to respond while making a left turn once.

My wife and I make a pretty hefty combined salary and BMW has missed out on a whole bunch of future expensive car purchases with this death trap. Fool me once, etc etc.

Havalcek,

When did your 08 X3 was built? I am sorry to read that your are having problem with your X3.

Andrew*Debbie
01-14-2008, 10:24 AM
She has already had the car fail to respond while making a left turn once.




That sure sounds like the steering angle sensor or some other DTC problem and not the transmission.

Havelcek
01-14-2008, 10:57 AM
That sure sounds like the steering angle sensor or some other DTC problem and not the transmission.

Yep I tried to explain that theory to the dealer but of course they don't want to hear about what you've read on the internet.

Havelcek
01-14-2008, 10:58 AM
Havalcek,

When did your 08 X3 was built? I am sorry to read that your are having problem with your X3.

I picked it up the day after Thanksgiving so I assume it was built in late October, early November.

Coffeeman
01-14-2008, 12:16 PM
I've been following this thread, as my wife's X3 was built at the same time. The only "weirdness" that I've experienced with the transmission, is the hesitation from a dead stop. This could also be caused by valvetronic. I wonder if the problems that you are having are not transmission related, as others have noted, but either engine/DSC/steering angle sensor, etc?

bmwadam
01-14-2008, 02:14 PM
You title a thread: "Almost got killed" and you get people chiming in from all over the boards.

At the end of the day EV needs to get out of this thing, one way or another. Thats it.

As for the tranny issue, well I wouldnt reccomend buying an 08, at least not until this bug is worked out. I have been driving BMW's for awhile now, Ive owned many of them. There were always two things that I would never do when buying a BMW: 1) Never buy an auto, and 2) Never buy one new. Now I know Ive posted about my philosophy on Bimmers before, but I want to say it again for those from other models that may be following this post.

I figure after 3 to 5 years any bugs will have worked themselves out of the car. Its funny but a 3 year old car, with b/w 30k and 50k can be more reliable than a brand new vehicle. Not only do you save good money, BUT the car is solidly broken in by this point and any initial design flaws generally should have been found and replaced.

For me my wife's BMW was the first I ever bought that had less than 100k on it. Hers had 28k when we bought it and it has been a fantastic car. As for the many models I have owned with more than 100k, Ive had no issues at all. I have never suffered a critical failure on any of my BMW's. But then again I do not buy them new, and even if I did I wouldn't be one of the firsts to buy a new model, or new engine/tranny setup. And I also disregard BMW's service intervals as facially unreliable.

I know many of you like to lease or buy new, and it works out for many people. But buying used has its benefits as well. Had EV bought an 04 or 05 X3 as a CPO he would not be having these issues, and he would be enjoying a very similar car. He even could have picked up an 03 or 04 X5 4.4 (a much better car in my opinion) for less than he paid for his faulty X3.

Evlengr
01-14-2008, 02:30 PM
You title a thread: "Almost got killed" and you get people chiming in from all over the boards.

At the end of the day EV needs to get out of this thing, one way or another. Thats it.

As for the tranny issue, well I wouldnt reccomend buying an 08, at least not until this bug is worked out. I have been driving BMW's for awhile now, Ive owned many of them. There were always two things that I would never do when buying a BMW: 1) Never buy an auto, and 2) Never buy one new. Now I know Ive posted about my philosophy on Bimmers before, but I want to say it again for those from other models that may be following this post.

I figure after 3 to 5 years any bugs will have worked themselves out of the car. Its funny but a 3 year old car, with b/w 30k and 50k can be more reliable than a brand new vehicle. Not only do you save good money, BUT the car is solidly broken in by this point and any initial design flaws generally should have been found and replaced.

For me my wife's BMW was the first I ever bought that had less than 100k on it. Hers had 28k when we bought it and it has been a fantastic car. As for the many models I have owned with more than 100k, Ive had no issues at all. I have never suffered a critical failure on any of my BMW's. But then again I do not buy them new, and even if I did I wouldn't be one of the firsts to buy a new model, or new engine/tranny setup. And I also disregard BMW's service intervals as facially unreliable.

I know many of you like to lease or buy new, and it works out for many people. But buying used has its benefits as well. Had EV bought an 04 or 05 X3 as a CPO he would not be having these issues, and he would be enjoying a very similar car. He even could have picked up an 03 or 04 X5 4.4 (a much better car in my opinion) for less than he paid for his faulty X3.

Had I known about this website I certainly would have bought a MT 06 CPO. For now it just needs to go.

My wife won't get in it. And I won't put my daughter in it. So it is pretty much useless. :(

HT417
01-14-2008, 02:46 PM
I'm completely satisfied with the functionality of my 2008 X3 AT w/Dec 07 build date - production scheduled for week 49. Although it didn't shift the smoothest when new, with ~850 miles on it now it smoothly glides through the gears at around 2100 rpms. I think this proves that even if it's not fixed on all of them that at least and the engineering and design are sound.

Where I think BMW is weak is testing and diagnosing. For example, a colleague's 6 month old 328i coupe was delivered with 3/10's of a mile on the clock. How can anyone know if the car has defects before delivery if it was merely driven to the truck and loaded? In essence, the customer is left to do the QC on his brand new $40K vehicle himself. They might not discover any serious defects until they show up when they find themselves in a dangerous situation as some members have experienced. At these prices I don't feel the customer should be playing test driver.:thumbdwn:

My hobby and additional duty at work is in the IT field. Over the years there's been many occasions where a bad batch of chips were sold to manufacturers where they were installed in harddrives, motherboards, etc. Could that not be the case here since everything is controlled by computers these days? You can load new programs and firmware on defective components all day and it makes no difference because they just don't work right anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense for BMW techs to be running actual component level diagnostics or is just checking for stored failure codes sufficient? :dunno:

kjboyd
01-14-2008, 02:48 PM
FYI HT: the odometers are usually set to a negative number say (-5miles) so that it comes as close to 0 as possible on delivery.

HT417
01-14-2008, 02:50 PM
FYI HT: the odometers are usually set to a negative number say (-5miles) so that it comes as close to 0 as possible on delivery.

Thanks, I didn't know. :yikes:

kjboyd
01-14-2008, 03:38 PM
so i've heard- about the odoms that is.

hunterz4
01-14-2008, 03:42 PM
I was surprised at the turn the tone of this thread has taken with some of the flame posts. I understand EV may have attracted 'fest wide attention with the title of the thread but the X3 forum is generally a laidback place. I have found this group of BMW enthusiast's comments to be generally supportive, informative and constructive. There are not the ego issues here that you sometimes see as you blog. IMO, EV's venting and complaining have been more out of frustration than anything else. As far as the number of posts re the transmission issue - well, it is a significant issue that has effected many of us. If it's not your thing don't read any of it. There is alot of other information available here.

berbutler
01-14-2008, 05:11 PM
I'm completely satisfied with the functionality of my 2008 X3 AT w/Dec 07 build date - production scheduled for week 49. Although it didn't shift the smoothest when new, with ~850 miles on it now it smoothly glides through the gears at around 2100 rpms. I think this proves that even if it's not fixed on all of them that at least and the engineering and design are sound.

.sufficient? :dunno:

I am sorry to inform you, but the fact your X3 operates satisfactorily for you PROVES NOTHING about the sound engineering or design of any part of this vehicle. You need statistical data to support that claim.

My 07 X3 operated satisfactorily for me for the first few thousand miles and I thought I was immune to all the problems people on this board were having with respect to auto transmission in the X3.

Unfortunately the X3 transmission problems started after 5000 miles and it seems to be getting worse, not better.

This only proves the transmission on my X3 is not operating properly according to my standards, nothing else.

I would love to have you chime in about your transmission when you have a few thousand more miles on your X3.

Cheers,

BB

Sonoman707
01-14-2008, 07:33 PM
Valid concern... the originial post itself is a bit melodramatic IMO.

Evlengr
01-14-2008, 08:57 PM
Valid concern... the originial post itself is a bit melodramatic IMO.
May you suffer the same melodrama!

Totally uncalled for....:slap:

There was more to the story, I posted the pertinent details.

bobotski
01-14-2008, 09:16 PM
May you suffer the same melodrama!


I seriously hope you don't wish anyone harm just because they don't share your view.

Sonoman707
01-14-2008, 09:49 PM
May you suffer the same melodrama!

Totally uncalled for....:slap:

There was more to the story, I posted the pertinent details.


Sorry... I've been reserved up to this point - however:

1) I personally wouldn't attempt to "over take" a vehicle changing into my lane. Your worry about the car "behind" you is unfounded. They are seeing the same thing you are.. probably more so.

2) You know this problem exists with your vehicle... and you know that having the transmission in Sport Mode eliminates the issue. For Christ's sake man - drive in Sport Mode until you work it out with BMW, get a RAV 4 or whatever makes you happy and secure.

3) Melodrama... yup - you bet. Your three year old had no clue as to what was happening - yet she was in tears... as was your wife...? C'mon now. Either you have a very sensitive family - or you are being overly melodramatic.

Give credit to that fabulous braking system that stopped you before you hit the metal divider in the center median that you steered toward while accelerating.

HT417
01-14-2008, 10:16 PM
I am sorry to inform you, but the fact your X3 operates satisfactorily for you PROVES NOTHING about the sound engineering or design of any part of this vehicle. You need statistical data to support that claim.

My 07 X3 operated satisfactorily for me for the first few thousand miles and I thought I was immune to all the problems people on this board were having with respect to auto transmission in the X3.

Unfortunately the X3 transmission problems started after 5000 miles and it seems to be getting worse, not better.



Maybe I've forgotten when everyone starting having the tranny problems - I thought it was early on in ownership. In which case my statement would be misleading if it implied a life of car/ownership fix.

However, even your statement validates that it at least worked correctly for a while - hence if design is the right word, then the design is good. Bad design, I believe, would never function as intended.

It seems like the point you're trying to make is in regards to the long term reliability being deficient. Maybe the word design should include long term reliability?:dunno: And you're right, I can't comment on that yet and didn't mean to imply I had that base covered. Perhaps the late hour here.

But, I still stand by my point that BMW should probably look deeper at why good trannys start going bad and quit seemingly assuming that a software patch is going to make everything right. Maybe failing hardware is the problem.

BB, I don't remember all of your posts and where you are with BMW, but I hope you get it resolved. I'm going back to the dealership in 30 minutes to get another motor mount replaced with only 850 miles on it. The first one was bad at delivery.

My apologies to anyone I confused. I'm not a designer or engineer as is probably obvious. I just was trying to get my point across as best as I could.

Cheers back at ya.

berbutler
01-15-2008, 12:20 AM
But, I still stand by my point that BMW should probably look deeper at why good trannys start going bad and quit seemingly assuming that a software patch is going to make everything right. Maybe failing hardware is the problem.

BB, I don't remember all of your posts and where you are with BMW, but I hope you get it resolved. I'm going back to the dealership in 30 minutes to get another motor mount replaced with only 850 miles on it. The first one was bad at delivery.

My apologies to anyone I confused. I'm not a designer or engineer as is probably obvious. I just was trying to get my point across as best as I could.

Cheers back at ya.

No apologies necessary................

Even with the sloppy functioning of the X3 transmission, I enjoy this car too much to let it bother me that much - as I said earlier, I have adjusted my driving habits to accomodate this issue.

I have not had any of software updates yet, but I will take it into the dealer when I have some time and post my impressions here.

I would be real curious as to how your tranny is functioning after you turn 5000 miles - please post and let us know - inquiring minds want to know!

Cheers,

BB

HT417
01-15-2008, 12:54 AM
I would be real curious as to how your tranny is functioning after you turn 5000 miles - please post and let us know - inquiring minds want to know!
BB

Yeah, I like the heck out of mine, too. After all the research, choosing options/colors, test drives and the wait for delivery I think I made the right decisions. It's at the shop again as I write this and this visit will determine whether I keep it or not. So far, BMW has tried hard to cure all early problems.

I'll be glad to provide an update when I get that many miles on it. I did do a comparison drive in a 2008 demo on Friday that my salesman claimed was lightyears smoother that the previous one. It had almost 2400 miles on it and was smooth but I thought mine was better.

Anyway, you're scaring me with the thought it might get worse. I thought if you had the problem it was in the beginning. :beerchug:

Evlengr
01-15-2008, 05:32 AM
a very sensitive family - or you are being overly melodramatic.

Give credit to that fabulous braking system that stopped you before you hit the metal divider in the center median that you steered toward while accelerating.

It seems to me you hear but you don't listen.

I did not use the brakes. I accelerated (or attempted to).

The car did not respond.

I pulled over to the far left. Hitting the orange tube like dividers.

I then pulled back into the lane after blaring the horn.


The driver behind me cannot be expected to anticipate my moves and may have a piece of junk that can't brake. Either way The car did not function correctly. The car was close enough where I got a description of the driver which I turned over to the police (since he did not stop).

And I do not wish this on anyone Bobotski. He was trying to diminish the scale of what happened. And I was being sarcastic in my reply.

No matter what your perception of my events none of it changes the fact that the X3 has a hit or miss ratio with this transmission that in my case was life threatening.

BMWNA needs to step up to the plate before someone gets hurt.

Andrew*Debbie
01-15-2008, 06:37 AM
Where I think BMW is weak is testing and diagnosing. For example, a colleague's 6 month old 328i coupe was delivered with 3/10's of a mile on the clock. How can anyone know if the car has defects before delivery if it was merely driven to the truck and loaded?




Every N52 engine is cold tested before it leaves the factory in Munich. The engine is hooked up to an automated test stand and spun by an electric motor. The system checks all engine mounted sensors and actuators. BMW claims this is as effective as a hot test but greener as no fuel is burned.


Every 3 series car is put on a a rolling road dynamometer and tested at speed. Ditto for the Z4 and presumably the X5 as it is built at the same factory. Additionally they pull a few from the line and take them out to the test track. I assume they reset the odometer to zero after the testing.

I'm not sure about the X3 as it is built at a contract factory. However Magna Styer has a very good reputation.

Our X3 had 4 miles on the odometer when we picked it up in Munich.



Wouldn't it make more sense for BMW techs to be running actual component level diagnostics or is just checking for stored failure codes sufficient? :dunno:

The techs at a dealer are field service. They are not at a point in the system to be doing component level diagnostics. Chip level testing take a lot of training and time. T


BMW does occasionally have the DMEs sent back to New Jersey. I'm wondering if they have a field engineer there, or if everything has to go back to Munich.

Recent events show that BMWs test and firmware distribution system is broken.

thebmw
01-15-2008, 04:16 PM
I am sorry to inform you, but the fact your X3 operates satisfactorily for you PROVES NOTHING about the sound engineering or design of any part of this vehicle. You need statistical data to support that claim.

My 07 X3 operated satisfactorily for me for the first few thousand miles and I thought I was immune to all the problems people on this board were having with respect to auto transmission in the X3.

Unfortunately the X3 transmission problems started after 5000 miles and it seems to be getting worse, not better.

This only proves the transmission on my X3 is not operating properly according to my standards, nothing else.

I would love to have you chime in about your transmission when you have a few thousand more miles on your X3.

Cheers,

BB

Huh?? Why do people think that tranny problems is okay. A subjective problem is a real problem! I've never had auto tranny problems with ANY OTHER MAKE...ONLY BMW. And BMW was the most premium brand of them all! The real answer is don't buy BMW trannies. There are other cars out there. And the X3 is not all that! Actually, it's mediocre and many years behind in design and technology (EX35 for example).

trueX5
01-15-2008, 04:35 PM
your right, the tranny is a piece of ****. I hope it breaks, a few days ago I heard a clicking sound coming from it....I hope it dies. The X3's shifts could not be less seamless. All I can focus on while I'm driving is how, and when, the trans will shift. When I'm in the X5, all I do is just drive, the transmission is TRANSPARENT.

Terry J. Harris
01-15-2008, 04:45 PM
True - What blows me away (besides the non-responsiveness of my AT) is that the reports I received prior to deciding to go with new '07 were that its AT was incredibly smooth - an improvement on prior year models. Now, looking back, it's like I have gone through the looking glass when I am driving my X3; it's the most rational explanation I can come up with for how my AT performs, or doesn't perform.

kringer2
01-15-2008, 08:10 PM
Huh?? Why do people think that tranny problems is okay. A subjective problem is a real problem! I've never had auto tranny problems with ANY OTHER MAKE...ONLY BMW. And BMW was the most premium brand of them all! The real answer is don't buy BMW trannies. There are other cars out there. And the X3 is not all that! Actually, it's mediocre and many years behind in design and technology (EX35 for example).


I have had problems with other makes - a Cayenne. It took Porsche about a year to resolve it with two or three reprograms of the tranny and/or throttle response. It was annoying, though they did get it worked out, however if I really wanted to jump off the line I had to put in manual mode and force a 1st gear start otherwise the delay was too long for me.

I guess I should consider myself lucky as my 07 auto has been smooth and trouble free for 9500 miles. I agree BMW needs to step up and do something about the problems many people are having. By ignoring it and/or not resolving it loyal customers will ignor BMW when the time comes to replace their vehicles. I really do not understand why BMW can not figure out why the tranny doesn't work for many people. More likely than not there is an issue with the programming of the damned thing, not a mechanical problem.

zznalg
01-15-2008, 08:17 PM
You know what...? I truly sympathize with those who experienced good test drives but whose trannies have gone bad after a few thousand miles (such things have happened to me). But, I have to say, I test drove a 2007 X3 AT and it was obvious: the thing sucked. The transmission was rough, shifted poorly, failed to provide power when I demanded it and in all respects performed as bad an my '07 Acura RDX (which I got rid of because of power delivery problems). Because of this I had ruled out the X3 initially. On a lark, I tested a manual X3 and the rest is (positive so far) history. But.. somebody else must have noticed the erratic auto transmission performance on their AT X3 test drive (?).

HT417
01-16-2008, 02:09 AM
But.. somebody else must have noticed the erratic auto transmission performance on their AT X3 test drive (?).

Nope, nada.

Before I signed on the dotted line I drove a 2008 528i, 2008 328i(same trannys as the X3, no?), 2 different 2007 X3 sport models, 1 2008 X3 non-sport(twice - once with the wife, once without. The salesman commented to me over the past two weeks that he thought it shifted terrible and sent it back to the headquarters for use as demo there. Maybe it got worse since I drove it two months prior?) and last Friday night an even newer 2008 X3 non-sport. They varied from 45 to at least 2400 miles on the odometer. I did not drive them especially hard and no full throttle kick-downs. I did do a 1/2 to 3/4 throttle kick-down on the 528i and noted a slight delay while it chose gears but nothing I haven't experienced in other brands of cars over the years, when they decided to drop more than one gear, and nothing I'd consider life-threatening, dangerous or out the ordinary. I found no issues and my wife voluntarily commented on how smooth the X3 rode. Coming from a smooth shifting 5 speed Volvo there is a difference in shift points both up and down but, I attribute that(maybe wrongly) to the sporting nature of the car. As a side note, before ordering I also was given a test drive in a 535xi and when the salesman floored it in Drive at about 20mph there was a huge pregnant pause until it decided what gear to use. My personal opinion based on my experience with these BMW's is to not rely completely on the drivetrain to make all of the decisions when you need to get your steam up in a hurry.

I'm just hoping mine continues to operate to my satisfaction.

Evlengr
01-16-2008, 05:38 AM
You know what...? I truly sympathize with those who experienced good test drives but whose trannies have gone bad after a few thousand miles (such things have happened to me). But, I have to say, I test drove a 2007 X3 AT and it was obvious: the thing sucked. The transmission was rough, shifted poorly, failed to provide power when I demanded it and in all respects performed as bad an my '07 Acura RDX (which I got rid of because of power delivery problems). Because of this I had ruled out the X3 initially. On a lark, I tested a manual X3 and the rest is (positive so far) history. But.. somebody else must have noticed the erratic auto transmission performance on their AT X3 test drive (?).

If you recall when this all started happening a lot of the people said oh it will all go away AFTER the adaptive driving has learned your style. Nope it got worse.

Interestingly enough the vehicles I had that were loaners (that had not time to adapt to anyone's style) were the smoothest shifting.

More than likely I would have bought into "it's your fault" syndrome if not for that. Every time I had a loaner they were smooth as silk (both a 328i and X3). Sometimes simple is better. Can they turn this adaptive control off?

Havelcek
01-16-2008, 05:58 AM
your right, the tranny is a piece of ****. I hope it breaks, a few days ago I heard a clicking sound coming from it....I hope it dies. The X3's shifts could not be less seamless. All I can focus on while I'm driving is how, and when, the trans will shift. When I'm in the X5, all I do is just drive, the transmission is TRANSPARENT.

You're spot on right there. When I am driving the X3 at anything other than highway speeds my focus is entirely on what the transmission is doing and how do I need to be on or off the accelerator in order to anticipate any upcoming change in traffic or red lights or whatever. The car does not do what you want it to do under any circumstances and at best its annoying and worse its dangerous. I can't wait to get rid of it.

Andrew*Debbie
01-16-2008, 07:35 AM
The real answer is don't buy BMW trannies.


BMW doesn't make transmissions. They buy automatics from GM and ZF. They buy manuals from Getrag and ZF. They buy transfer cases from Magna, the same company that builds the X3.

All four of these companies have a long history of making dependable quality drivetrain components. I'll admit there is a valid argument surrounding GM's so called lifetime transmission fluid but that is off topic.


As far as I know, the problems discussed in this thread are limited to the X3. Other BMWs, even those using the same GM 6 speed auto coupled to a similar Magna auto transfer case don't have similar problems. At least not in significant numbers.


And I'll say this one more time. Our 2007 X3 (July 2007 build date) continues to be a great car.



================================================== ==

Who writes the software for the DME and the EGS? Is this done by software engineers at BMW AG in Munich or is it contracted out? Who is responsible for testing the patches before they are sent out to dealers. Have engineeers noticed that some but not all of the problems are linked to the DTC? Is accurate information being provided to the dealer service departments? What is BMW NA doing to insure that Service Advisers and Technicians are staying current with this issue? What are BMW AG and BMW NA doing to correct what went wrong here?

I've been reading the job openings at BMW AG for hints...

Evlengr
01-16-2008, 08:18 AM
I don't believe this is a hardware issue, but a firmware and software issue. Again the 328i loaner that I drove worked so flawlessly I would not have known what gear I was in if not for glancing at the tach.

I mention the 328 because I have been told it is the same tranny as the X3.

It is diffiuclt to believe that given a working model that they dont just "Black Box" a troublesome X3 and do a comparative analysis to a trouble free one.

They seem to be hell bent on making more work and aggravation for themselves.

dug01
01-16-2008, 08:23 AM
. Can they turn this adaptive control off?

I owned 2 Passats and an Audi (I miss my Allroad more and more every day:cry:) before the X3--all had 5 sp adaptive transmissions--all could be reset by the owner by pushing the accelerator to the floor and turning the key to position 2 (the click before starter engagement) and hold for a period of time--I think 15 seconds. The trans would reset to factory default. Does anyone know of a similar resetting procedure in the X3 that the owner can access??:dunno:

Motown328
01-16-2008, 08:33 AM
Evlengr, what was the driver who sweved into your lane doing? Not paying attention> Intoxicated? What was the deal with that?

Do you think it would have been better to cross-swipe that car instead of risking a frontal impact with the dividers?

BTW...I used to be set on an X3, but all of this and other reports have turned me away. No X3 here.

firstbmwX3
01-16-2008, 10:11 AM
You know, I have to wonder based on all the comments that perhaps in addition to the faulty transmission, the input from the DTC and other "control" systems may just f-up emergency handling. If it detects avoidance maneuvers or sudden changes in vehicle position, perhaps the acceleration is over controlled much as if you have wheel spin. I know that sounds crazy and contrary. It seems that whenever I turn, slow down or accelerate the transmission has problems. I hate sport shift...way too jerky. If I accelerate in straight line, it's pretty good (most of the time). I think I will try driving for a while with the DTC off and see what happens. I guess it's time for a trip to the dealer for a discussion...

I have a 528xi 6 speed manual...guess that will be my safe driving car.

Havelcek
01-16-2008, 10:26 AM
Well the dealership has had my new X3 now for 3 days and counting and they are still researching these issues with the engineers in Germany so either:

a) They are trying to be extremely thorough

or

b) They still have no idea how to fix these problems

Boile
01-16-2008, 10:57 AM
From what I'm gathering here, there's not a specific defect with your particular transmission. Just that you're not satisfied with the way it performs. Correct?
If you can reproduce it, why wouldn't BMW fix it under warranty?
Good luck getting BMW or any maker to give you your money back. Maybe you can start a class action if you find many people with your complaint.
Just sell the car and buy another one. And do a test drive before you buy.

Evlengr
01-16-2008, 11:13 AM
Sorry the car is too new and will end up upside down in my financing. I am not eating the cost at my expense.

And you may want to look at the threads more closely. There is a problem with the Tranny. BMWNA has made several attempts to fix it with out full success.

Here is simple engineering. It worked before, it doesnt work now, what has changed?

Look at one that works right and one that doesn't. I have offered multiple times for them to "Black Box" mine.

Havelcek
01-16-2008, 11:45 AM
From what I'm gathering here, there's not a specific defect with your particular transmission. Just that you're not satisfied with the way it performs. Correct?
If you can reproduce it, why wouldn't BMW fix it under warranty?
Good luck getting BMW or any maker to give you your money back. Maybe you can start a class action if you find many people with your complaint.
Just sell the car and buy another one. And do a test drive before you buy.

Fortunately BMW has acknowledged that there is an issue by creating a series of software patches to attempt to address said issue. My sales advisor actually admitted to me that he had the patch applied to address the rough transmission on his X3.

HT417
01-16-2008, 02:05 PM
A*D - thanks for the info. Good to know.

Every 3 series car is put on a a rolling road dynamometer and tested at speed. Ditto for the Z4 and presumably the X5 as it is built at the same factory. Additionally they pull a few from the line and take them out to the test track.

Perhaps if they'd done this to mine they might have caught the bad motor mount and bad second transmission(this one is connected to the transfer case and feeds the power forward) before delivery.

Apparently there are some holes in the long term test plan too if they're being surprised at all of the trannies that are acting up after a few thousand miles.

Boile
01-16-2008, 02:38 PM
Sorry the car is too new and will end up upside down in my financing. I am not eating the cost at my expense.

And you may want to look at the threads more closely. There is a problem with the Tranny. BMWNA has made several attempts to fix it with out full success.

Here is simple engineering. It worked before, it doesnt work now, what has changed?

Look at one that works right and one that doesn't. I have offered multiple times for them to "Black Box" mine.

Accepting your car for experimentation would amount to admitting a problem exists.
Issuing software updates or even hardware redesigns is common practice in the industry. Improvements are welcomed, not necessarily implying a defect.
If BMW knows about the issue, then your class action suit is that much easier.
But asking them to buy your car back is ludicrous and a waste of time.

Havelcek
01-16-2008, 02:44 PM
Accepting your car for experimentation would amount to admitting a problem exists.
Issuing software updates or even hardware redesigns is common practice in the industry. Improvements are welcomed, not necessarily implying a defect.
If BMW knows about the issue, then your class action suit is that much easier.
But asking them to buy your car back is ludicrous and a waste of time.

Not true, in New Jersey that is one of the options of the lemon law.

http://www.state.nj.us/oag/ca/ocp/lemguide.htm#lemguide.htm8

Tlon
01-16-2008, 03:23 PM
But asking them to buy your car back is ludicrous and a waste of time.

Actually, I've had BMW buy back a car before because of a number of serious problems. They have a process for this. It's not a waste of time, unless he's damaged the car or modified it.

That said, I'm still not convinced his problems are transmission related. I thought mine were at first too, but having no power does not equate well to a transmission problem unless the auto upshifted dramatically. And just because BMW has applied software patches, it doesn't mean it was meant to fix the transmission; it could be any number of things controlled by the computer(s) in the car.

trueX5
01-16-2008, 03:32 PM
Doesn't the X5 have the same transmission? I repeat, it is TRANSPARENT on that car. Wonderful. X3 is hell.

guernsey
01-16-2008, 04:05 PM
That's it. Tonight was the final straw. We were almost killed as a result of this tranny.

I will be calling an attorney in the morning and BMWNA.

I want this thing gone! And, so does my wife!

Tonight while coming home from simple Mall shopping with my wife and three year old daughter a driver started to drift into our lane(of which I was in the far left lane). Since there was traffic directly behind me and nothing in front I attempted to accelerate away from him. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. I ended up riding into the center meridian while staring straight at the end of a metal divider. Needless to say you dont hard brake with one set of tires on asphalt and another in dirt. After laying on the horn and running over several orange flex tubes he veered away. The car was not damaged, but my wife and daughter were in tears.:eek:

This is the third time I have come close to a massive or fatal accident as a result of this piece of crap trannsmission.:mad:

Anybody interested in this wonderful 2007 X3 please feel free to PM me.

"Vatkens" if your reading please let BMWNA know this means I will be exploring every legal oppurtunity and informing everyone available until this thing is gone. And I am not doing it at my expense.

so i guess your brakes don't work either?

trueX5
01-16-2008, 04:13 PM
so i guess your brakes don't work either?

we've already gone over this. Read the previous posts.

Evlengr
01-16-2008, 05:12 PM
Accepting your car for experimentation would amount to admitting a problem exists.
Issuing software updates or even hardware redesigns is common practice in the industry. Improvements are welcomed, not necessarily implying a defect.
If BMW knows about the issue, then your class action suit is that much easier.
But asking them to buy your car back is ludicrous and a waste of time.

Actually I am being nice since under MD Lemon Laws my vehicle already qualifies for a buy back option-----at this point it has been in for four tries.

And in answer to other questions:
the updates were/are directly issued to fix the "shift lag" issues,
There was not an option of braking since there was a car directly behind me and if I did have a controlled brake--they might not. I don't trust other drivers to know what they are doing and the idiot that almost hit me is case in point.

Tlon
01-16-2008, 05:33 PM
the updates were/are directly issued to fix the "shift lag" issues,


I'm curious. How do you know this? From everything I've read on this board as people have scoured for software update numbers, dates of delivery, etc., all folks have is hearsay on what the updates actually do. Do you actually have a list of the changes that were made in each software update? Or are you assuming because you describe a problem and your dealer says a new software update might be a solution, of which they clearly have little knowledge as to what it does, that these are necessarily addressing what you believe to be the root cause of the problem? I'm not saying there have not been software updates to the transmission software, but there may also have been other updates included as well, maybe even the primary updates meant to address things like hesitation and poor power.

I hope you get your car fixed, but for the record, having had the care for about 8k miles, I actually think the 6psd auto is a huge leap forward from the 5spd, problems notwithstanding, which may in fact be very serious in some cars. It is smarter, does a better job figuring out what gear it should be in, and sport mode is actually that, a sporty, aggressive mode, unlike the 5spd, where it only holds the gear longer.

kjboyd
01-16-2008, 05:45 PM
TIon the 5sp in my 06 was FAR superior at doing everything you are claiming above.

And yes, we have proof, some of us subscribed to the BMW service bulletin board and have actually SEEN the SIB/TSB notices that state exactly what EV is saying they do.

Boile
01-16-2008, 07:21 PM
Actually, I've had BMW buy back a car before because of a number of serious problems. They have a process for this. It's not a waste of time, unless he's damaged the car or modified it.

That said, I'm still not convinced his problems are transmission related. I thought mine were at first too, but having no power does not equate well to a transmission problem unless the auto upshifted dramatically. And just because BMW has applied software patches, it doesn't mean it was meant to fix the transmission; it could be any number of things controlled by the computer(s) in the car.

Exactly.
If having not enough power to get you out of a situation qualifies a car a a lemon, then all the Prius are lemons. :rolleyes:
The onus is on you (the OP) to prove that there is a defect.
Just file the class action, if you think you have the evidence. You'll come out a lot better.

kjboyd
01-16-2008, 07:23 PM
Boile: unless you've been there done that, you don't know what you are talking about.

zznalg
01-16-2008, 08:13 PM
so i guess your brakes don't work either?

guernsey; Don't waste our time. Are you even paying attention?

sc 540i
01-16-2008, 08:13 PM
If you qualify for lemon law as you said, why wouldn't go for it?

kjboyd
01-16-2008, 09:02 PM
because it can be a long drawn out, taxing process. IF you can settle it nicely, why be litigious?

HT417
01-16-2008, 09:14 PM
I thought mine were at first too,

What did the problem turn out to be?

HT417
01-17-2008, 04:52 AM
What did the problem turn out to be?

Tlon - disregard - I had time to find some of your posts. If I got the gist of everything, you fixed your problem with fuel additive?

Tlon
01-17-2008, 07:00 AM
Tlon - disregard - I had time to find some of your posts. If I got the gist of everything, you fixed your problem with fuel additive?

The problem I was having with hesitations and what felt like shifting lag, really seems to come down to something like the ethanol content in the gas around here. The fuel additives work for me -- I am not claiming this will work for everyone or that this is the same problem everyone else is having, btw, though I imagine some are in fact having this exact problem -- and my car drives great. If I don't put the additive in, it hesitates and drives like crap. Doesn't matter what gas: SHell, Chevron, BP, Exxon, Mobile. I've tried them all. And going down to 89 octane does help either. 93+ octane and STP gas treatment works perfectly for me and I love driving my car now.

The transmission is far better than the 5spd I had in my 04 330i, which was hardly transparent or nearly as intelligent as the 6spd in my 07. I used to have the drive the 330i in SP and M mode all the time because the transmission never knew what gear it should be in during any sort of more basic aggressive driving (passing, going up a hill, getting on an onramp, etc.). I never shift to M mode in my X3, but I do shift to SP mode when I want more power and transmission is always dead on the mark with the right gear. Anyway, I'm not saying others are not having transmission problems, but it's not necessarily that the 6spd is a bad transmission; it is more likely that there is something wrong with their car.

Tlon
01-17-2008, 07:02 AM
because it can be a long drawn out, taxing process. IF you can settle it nicely, why be litigious?

And you really shouldn't need to do this. BMW has a buy back process. I found being nice helped a lot. I never threaten them with a lawyer or the lemon laws. I was consistently nice about what was a serious of defects in the car -- and by the way, none that were life threatening like the OP is claiming -- and the dealer stepped up to the plate and bought the car back. This is why I'm in my third BMW.

Tlon
01-17-2008, 07:05 AM
TIon the 5sp in my 06 was FAR superior at doing everything you are claiming above.

And I should qualify my statement. I only had experience with a 5spd in a 04 330i, and it does not even come close to the transparency and intelligence of the 6spd in my 07 X3. It was choppy -- to the point of making me car sick often enough -- and had severe shift lag, especially when I would kick down the accelerator pedal. That said, the 07 is also better than most other autos trans I've driven. It's not as transparent as the one in our Volvo, but it is a damn sight more accurate.

Havelcek
01-17-2008, 08:13 AM
And you really shouldn't need to do this. BMW has a buy back process. I found being nice helped a lot. I never threaten them with a lawyer or the lemon laws. I was consistently nice about what was a serious of defects in the car -- and by the way, none that were life threatening like the OP is claiming -- and the dealer stepped up to the plate and bought the car back. This is why I'm in my third BMW.

Yep in my experiences it rarely pays off to get upset at the person on the telephone as they are usually just a worker bee. Just follow the process, get your ducks in a row, and play it out. Its not like this is a problem that they are unaware of.

gmlav8r
01-17-2008, 08:24 AM
Actually - the ABS / DSC system would handle it quite well. Ditto

dug01
01-17-2008, 08:33 AM
The problem I was having with hesitations and what felt like shifting lag, really seems to come down to something like the ethanol content in the gas around here. The fuel additives work for me -- I am not claiming this will work for everyone or that this is the same problem everyone else is having, btw, though I imagine some are in fact having this exact problem -- and my car drives great. If I don't put the additive in, it hesitates and drives like crap. Doesn't matter what gas: SHell, Chevron, BP, Exxon, Mobile. I've tried them all. And going down to 89 octane does help either. 93+ octane and STP gas treatment works perfectly for me and I love driving my car now.

.

I would rather have a vehicle that ran good on the fuel recommended by the manufacturer without adding "additives"..It just adds to the cost of operation and is
just something else to add to the maintainance of the vehicle. Gas with ethanol has been here for years--BMW's or any vehicle should run just fine with the recommended fuel. I think you should take your vehicle to the dealer and tell them what you have to do to make it run properly and insist that they fix it...take it in with the fuel that causes it to run "Crappy" and take the service advisor for a ride--get a loaner and go home. If you went to a restaurant and got a steak and had to add your own seasonings to make it taste good---would you go back??--My guess is that you would--but most wouldn't..good luck.:tsk:

Evlengr
01-17-2008, 08:39 AM
Never mad at the CS or SA that I have dealt with so far. In fact they have been extremely polite in all facets , but nothing got done.

Only when I started making a ruckus did things move forward. Up until that point any of the information I got was not from BMWNA but from this and other websites.

Had there not been a sharing of information BMWNA would have happily denied this as being a problem like they did on almost every occasion.

My beef is with the decision makers that are hiding behind them.

They have been aware of this issue for well over a year now and continue to release updates that sort of work. Since I am not the only one discussing this it helps validate this.

And yes I am sure that the abs/dsc would handle it. The question is: "Does the person directly behind me have that same ability", or "Are they on the phone or pre-occupied in some other manner". You don't know! The person that almost hit me was drving a Ford Fiesta type vehicle and I didnt ask the person behind me if they were a capable driver that had proper braking.

Read the original post.

Tlon
01-17-2008, 08:57 AM
I would rather have a vehicle that ran good on the fuel recommended by the manufacturer without adding "additives"..It just adds to the cost of operation and is
just something else to add to the maintainance of the vehicle. Gas with ethanol has been here for years--BMW's or any vehicle should run just fine with the recommended fuel. I think you should take your vehicle to the dealer and tell them what you have to do to make it run properly and insist that they fix it...take it in with the fuel that causes it to run "Crappy" and take the service advisor for a ride--get a loaner and go home. If you went to a restaurant and got a steak and had to add your own seasonings to make it taste good---would you go back??--My guess is that you would--but most wouldn't..good luck.:tsk:

I've brought it to the dealer a number of times and they have no fix, so I'm left with a few options. I can be a pissy jerk and just complain about my car all the time or I can do what I can to make the experience at least enjoyable while I am in a lease. Given that there is no other car on the market that I like as much as the car I'm driving right now, working as it does right now, I choose to make it work.

And, your metaphor is faulty in a number of ways. I'd spend the rest of the morning trying to fix it for you, but simply, if I had no choice but to go to the same restaurant every day (I'm in a lease) and the only way I could get something I would like was to add my own spices (the car works well and no other fix has been forthcoming), then yes, I'd add my own. My guess is you'd just sit there and eat what you didn't like and complain about it all the time. :tsk:

Boile
01-17-2008, 09:47 AM
Boile: unless you've been there done that, you don't know what you are talking about.

You're confused.
I'm not disputing that there may be an issue with the X3 transmission.
I'm saying that you won't get BMW to admit that there's one.
If you have evidence of a defect, which you will need anyways if you plan to get them to buy your car back, just file a class action law suit.

Evlengr
01-17-2008, 10:37 AM
You're confused.
I'm not disputing that there may be an issue with the X3 transmission.
I'm saying that you won't get BMW to admit that there's one.
If you have evidence of a defect, which you will need anyways if you plan to get them to buy your car back, just file a class action law suit.


I have an independent ASE certified mechanic that specializes in BMW reviewing it. And if need be an accredited transmission specialist.

Neither needs to know how BMW's tranny/DME works only that it is not delivering properly when asked to perform.

Boile
01-17-2008, 11:31 AM
I have an independent ASE certified mechanic that specializes in BMW reviewing it. And if need be an accredited transmission specialist.

Neither needs to know how BMW's tranny/DME works only that it is not delivering properly when asked to perform.

Good for you.
All I'm saying is that once you get credible evidence you'd do a lot better pursuing a class action.
Presenting that evidence to BMW is a waste of time.

kjboyd
01-17-2008, 12:10 PM
Why does it seem like the posters on the east coast are being total assholes about this and the posters on the west coast are being sympathetic? just and observation.

CoupeCrazy
01-17-2008, 12:20 PM
Why does it seem like the posters on the east coast are being total assholes about this and the posters on the west coast are being sympathetic? just and observation.

Funny, I was just wondering why the west coast people seem to be such whiny little bitches...

Sounds ridiculous to say such a thing, doesn't it?

kjboyd
01-17-2008, 12:40 PM
like i said...

keithsimp
01-17-2008, 02:28 PM
Why does it seem like the posters on the east coast are being total assholes about this and the posters on the west coast are being sympathetic? just and observation.
Well I'm from the Rockies and I sympathize with the folks having the tranny issues, but I just don't agree with the way some posters are going about getting their issues resolved, regardless of which coast they are from. So I must be in the middle somewhere. :tsk:

CoupeCrazy
01-17-2008, 06:04 PM
like i said...

You totally missed the point...but I can't expect much in the reading comprehension department from a person who thinks geography is mysteriously linked to a standpoint on the "X3 tranny issue".

It's laughable really... :rofl:

kjboyd
01-17-2008, 06:55 PM
no, i got your point. and it proved mine.

doubledeclutch
01-17-2008, 09:16 PM
Why does it seem like the posters on the east coast are being total assholes about this and the posters on the west coast are being sympathetic? just and observation.

:loco:

HGX3.0
01-18-2008, 07:56 AM
Whoo - slow down, take a few deep breaths. This thread has gotten out of hand. It should be an informative site, not a east-west coast bash.

I have frustrations about the X3 AT and I understand how members feel about the entire situation. I also know that some people don't have these issues so can't really make judgment calls and trying to explain it to them is not going to work the situation out.

BMW NA if you troll these posts - please make yourself aware of the growing number of frustrated, irritated people who want viable solutions. Inform your buyers on what the problems are - what is being done to fix it - and give us a timeline on when!!!

MJS
01-18-2008, 09:42 AM
BMW NA if you troll these posts - please make yourself aware of the growing number of frustrated, irritated people who want viable solutions. Inform your buyers on what the problems are - what is being done to fix it - and give us a timeline on when!!!

Ya Vatkens, let's hear it..... :dunno:

hunterz4
01-18-2008, 10:31 AM
The deterioration of this thread is unprecedented from what I have seen in the last 6 months. You all think you are on the 6er thread?

Evlengr
01-18-2008, 11:50 AM
I think everyone is a little frustrated with this situation. Some like me from BMWNA's lack of communication and truthfulness. Others because their opinions are being questioned based on things other than the real problem.

Bottom line though is that there is better communication on this site then most car-zine types.

I have been researching other vehicles for obvious reasons and the lack of input is just as aggravating.

Be thankful we at least all respond.

BmW745On19's
01-18-2008, 11:59 AM
I think everyone is a little frustrated with this situation. Some like me from BMWNA's lack of communication and truthfulness. Others because their opinions are being questioned based on things other than the real problem.

Bottom line though is that there is better communication on this site then most car-zine types.

I have been researching other vehicles for obvious reasons and the lack of input is just as aggravating.

Be thankful we at least all respond.
Get an X5 4.4i with the sport pack.

Similar to this. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-BMW-X5-4-4-Sport-Nav-PDC-Carfax-Certified_W0QQitemZ180203686078QQihZ008QQcategoryZ 15282QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) or this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-BMW-X5-4-4i-Sport-with-Navi-and-Cold-Weather-Pkg_W0QQitemZ110213781790QQihZ001QQcategoryZ15282Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

diana
01-18-2008, 01:10 PM
I think everyone is a little frustrated with this situation. Some like me from BMWNA's lack of communication and truthfulness. Others because their opinions are being questioned based on things other than the real problem.

Bottom line though is that there is better communication on this site then most car-zine types.

I have been researching other vehicles for obvious reasons and the lack of input is just as aggravating.

Be thankful we at least all respond.

Evlengr,

Just a word of encouragement here. Don't give up on this. I have written on this forum about the significant hesitation my husband and I experienced when we test drove a 2007 X3 this past August. We had the thing hesitate with us making a left hand turn, and we drove it back to the dealership and parked it. No interest after that!

I can easily see why your wife and child broke into tears. Your wife's tears probably were the result of the combination of building frustration with the vehicle and the fear of being hit, and a child is very likely to get upset seeing a parent upset. I don't think it's fair of anyone to point a finger your way and call you guys melodramic. Since we don't cry easily, nothing hurts my husband worse than to see me or my daughter cry--you probably feel the same way about your girls.

Don't give up until you get the safe vehicle you thought you were paying for!

Evlengr
01-18-2008, 01:41 PM
In response....

An X5 burn me once shame on you......burn me twice ...you get the idea..Now if they want to give me one..that will work, Lol.

Diana,

Thanks you hit it right on the head. The only thing that makes me really upset is seeing my family upset or hurt. Up until then it was all grousing about it.

One way or another this thing is going since my wife is pretty steadfast on how dangerous it is (it's a one seater at this point).

I would like it fixed or get it replaced so I dont have to go through the whole litigious garbage as well as removing and redesigning the whole custom sound system.

I probably should be doing what other in my position are doing and that is not tipping their hand while they gather information..but that's never been me.

dug01
01-18-2008, 01:44 PM
If I don't put the additive in, it hesitates and drives like crap. Doesn't matter what gas: SHell, Chevron, BP, Exxon, Mobile. I've tried them all. And going down to 89 octane does help either. 93+ octane and STP gas treatment works perfectly for me and I love driving my car now.

.

ATTENTION EVERYONE--all we have to do is add SPP fool additive at every fill-up and use 93 octane--lets all do this and then we can stop these silly transmission/hesitation/jerky/lag posts--waddia think??? We can let BMW off the hook and fix this ourselves. :rolleyes:

Evlengr
01-18-2008, 01:54 PM
Darn it trips to the small airport for 104 Octane --silly me, what was I thinking, Lol

UncleJ
01-18-2008, 02:11 PM
Evle, much earlier I wrote that I didn't have a dog in this hunt, and I still don't. I have been reading these threads tho' and really feel BMW is dropping the ball on you folks with this problem. It is the lack of communication that really concerns me. Anyone can make a engineering error in design but the mark of a real quality outfit is to stand up and take responsibility. BMW did this (sort of) a few years ago with the engine block problem and I give them a lot of credit for doing that. Honda/Acura stood behind their auto transmission failures, and Toyota (I believe) handled their sludge problem well. Some BMW suit has got to figure out that this is a real problem that requires a real solution and not stonewalling in the hope it will go away. Good luck to you all in your quest for resolution!

Havelcek
01-18-2008, 02:14 PM
By the way someone asked me this earlier and I didn't know the answer at the time but my build date was October 27, 2007 and I have the xmission problem.

Evlengr
01-18-2008, 02:30 PM
Evle, much earlier I wrote that I didn't have a dog in this hunt, and I still don't. I have been reading these threads tho' and really feel BMW is dropping the ball on you folks with this problem. It is the lack of communication that really concerns me. Anyone can make a engineering error in design but the mark of a real quality outfit is to stand up and take responsibility. BMW did this (sort of) a few years ago with the engine block problem and I give them a lot of credit for doing that. Honda/Acura stood behind their auto transmission failures, and Toyota (I believe) handled their sludge problem well. Some BMW suit has got to figure out that this is a real problem that requires a real solution and not stonewalling in the hope it will go away. Good luck to you all in your quest for resolution!

Thanks Uncle J. My whole point all along is the lack of communication and denials. Just to reiterate: Had they come to me and said, "Hey we are sorry we want to work this out. Please be patient and we promise to get back to you in a timely manner. 10 months is not timely. There was no response until I created the "There is no Vatkens" thread.

Boile
01-18-2008, 04:01 PM
I recall that thread... so, is there a Vatkens or not? :dunno::confused:

Evlengr
01-18-2008, 10:53 PM
Actually Vatkens is exactly what I said. Not a person but a group of people that scan bmw web sites for BMWNA.

The jury is still out if they are a third party or work directly for BMWNA.

Although, the information does get to BMWNA and I guess that is all that matters in the end.

Tlon
01-19-2008, 07:45 AM
ATTENTION EVERYONE--all we have to do is add SPP fool additive at every fill-up and use 93 octane--lets all do this and then we can stop these silly transmission/hesitation/jerky/lag posts--waddia think??? We can let BMW off the hook and fix this ourselves. :rolleyes:

Never said it was the solution for all the problems, just worked on mine. There's no helping some idiots. So, I'll stop trying. Go back to your little cave and fester.

dug01
01-19-2008, 05:33 PM
Never said it was the solution for all the problems, just worked on mine. There's no helping some idiots. So, I'll stop trying. Go back to your little cave and fester.

Hey how about it guys--anyone else try the gas additive route---did it help??? or is Tlon the only one????:dunno:

x3ronnie
01-19-2008, 06:04 PM
I've brought it to the dealer a number of times and they have no fix, so I'm left with a few options. I can be a pissy jerk and just complain about my car all the time or I can do what I can to make the experience at least enjoyable while I am in a lease. Given that there is no other car on the market that I like as much as the car I'm driving right now, working as it does right now, I choose to make it work.
:tsk:

I Couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbup:

x3ronnie
01-19-2008, 06:09 PM
Never said it was the solution for all the problems, just worked on mine. There's no helping some idiots. So, I'll stop trying. Go back to your little cave and fester.

This is just uncalled for, and very uncharacteristic of this board. Name calling...what next?:thumbdwn:

vase330
01-19-2008, 06:36 PM
Thanks Uncle J. My whole point all along is the lack of communication and denials. Just to reiterate: Had they come to me and said, "Hey we are sorry we want to work this out. Please be patient and we promise to get back to you in a timely manner. 10 months is not timely. There was no response until I created the "There is no Vatkens" thread.

So I am on my 5th BMW and had nasty electrical issues and total frustration for 5 months until someone at BMW really got on the case and had all electronic components replaced in my car. Sad you get ignored until you threaten to get lawyers involved. I was lucky, I video taped it all, and if there was a dispute, I would produce the evidence. Thankfully it didn't go that far. They finally stepped up as I was getting ready to launch a legal case. Must have been a rather expensive job, but that what warranty is for.

My 330 had tranny failure twice. Was on third AT whne I sold it with 127K on the odo. Tranny was the only issue the car had though. That AT was the worst I have ever expirienced, and yes it was GM. Don't know who is to blame, but it was a GM tranny in the E46. I swore off BMW after my tranny issues, but a drive in the 335 AT brought me back to the fold. The ZF AT is the best I have ever driven.:thumbup:

HT417
01-19-2008, 11:31 PM
This is just uncalled for, and very uncharacteristic of this board. Name calling...what next?:thumbdwn:

x3ronnie - maybe you missed this post from dug01 a little earlier that started it all:

"ATTENTION EVERYONE--all we have to do is add SPP fool additive at every fill-up and use 93 octane--lets all do this and then we can stop these silly transmission/hesitation/jerky/lag posts--waddia think??? We can let BMW off the hook and fix this ourselves. :rolleyes:"

batavia_x3
01-20-2008, 08:58 AM
don't bother about whose mistake is that...
just plan to get rid of that car and get another one

Evlengr
01-20-2008, 11:55 AM
I am--just want to see what their "uber" BMWNA mechanic says at this point. Personally I would have reflashed the DME with the latest update 9 months ago. Run a full diagnostic on it and then sent it to the dealer if I was in BMWNA's place. This way I would have been guranteed not to deal with "he said she said" when it came communication between customer => dealer => corporate.

Boile
01-20-2008, 03:13 PM
so what does your independent transmission guy has to say?

Evlengr
01-20-2008, 08:11 PM
Cancelled all weekend. Little girl has the FLU. Family first..stuff last.

Tlon
01-21-2008, 11:09 AM
Hey how about it guys--anyone else try the gas additive route---did it help??? or is Tlon the only one????:dunno:

Of course, Dug01, you seem to have a slight memory lapse, since you've participated in at least one thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227163&highlight=octane

in which at least one other person claimed to have success with this very thing. The idea that something that you've made up your mind on long ago may in fact be helpful in some circumstances must really burn you. Since I'm not claiming that this works for everyone or getting a kickback from STP, I can't imagine what you think I have at stake in this argument, except possibly to help some folks in cases where this might work, maybe for example, those cases where the hesitation is due to ethanol content in the gas. Then again, I know how difficult it must be to even consider that your long held beliefs in your superior knowledge of automotive scams and engine lore, gleaned no doubt from many nights sitting as a youngster in your footy pajamas, around the grease pit listening to the ancient sages of mechanical knowhow espouse the dogma of the inline 6, might actually be wrong. And, honesty, I have no desire to alter any illusions you might have about how the world functions. If your myopia has served your well all these years, I wish you luck and success in the world. Me, personally, I have better things to do than to fight with BMW about how poorly they've tuned their engines to account for the ethanol content in the gas over here. Did they screw this one up? Yes. Should it be fixed? Absolutely. Is it one of three things that I really hate about this car. Definitely. Am I going to waste the next three years of my life, time, and money trying to get them to recognize the problem and fix it, when a relatively simple and inexpensive fix does the job for me? Definitely not.

keithsimp
01-21-2008, 11:53 AM
Of course, Dug01, you seem to have a slight memory lapse, since you've participated in at least one thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227163&highlight=octane

in which at least one other person claimed to have success with this very thing. The idea that something that you've made up your mind on long ago may in fact be helpful in some circumstances must really burn you. Since I'm not claiming that this works for everyone or getting a kickback from STP, I can't imagine what you think I have at stake in this argument, except possibly to help some folks in cases where this might work, maybe for example, those cases where the hesitation is due to ethanol content in the gas. Then again, I know how difficult it must be to even consider that your long held beliefs in your superior knowledge of automotive scams and engine lore, gleaned no doubt from many nights sitting as a youngster in your footy pajamas, around the grease pit listening to the ancient sages of mechanical knowhow espouse the dogma of the inline 6, might actually be wrong. And, honesty, I have no desire to alter any illusions you might have about how the world functions. If your myopia has served your well all these years, I wish you luck and success in the world. Me, personally, I have better things to do than to fight with BMW about how poorly they've tuned their engines to account for the ethanol content in the gas over here. Did they screw this one up? Yes. Should it be fixed? Absolutely. Is it one of three things that I really hate about this car. Definitely. Am I going to waste the next three years of my life, time, and money trying to get them to recognize the problem and fix it, when a relatively simple and inexpensive fix does the job for me? Definitely not.

Great post Tlon. :thumbup:

Keith S.

dug01
01-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Did they screw this one up? Yes. Should it be fixed? Absolutely. Is it one of three things that I really hate about this car. Definitely. Am I going to waste the next three years of my life, time, and money trying to get them to recognize the problem and fix it, when a relatively simple and inexpensive fix does the job for me? Definitely not.

well at least there are some of us that want it fixed right--just think where we would be if everyone accepted things that did not work properly....So lets hope a few of us persist, get it made right, and then you can benefit from our efforts..:)

bobotski
01-21-2008, 05:21 PM
What's wrong with waiting for BMW to fix it, but in the meantime doing something to make the ride better?

Evlengr
01-21-2008, 06:47 PM
Call me silly, but I just can just see BMWNA turning it around and saying you damaged the vehicle by using additives and using that to circumvent responsibility.

Like I have said before this is not an inconvenience issue. The major things that are critical to a ride would be:

Drivetrain

Brakes

Steering

One of these doesnt function right it is life threatening.

Well guess two outta three aint bad.....Wrong!

A radio breaking is incovenient.

dug01
01-22-2008, 08:12 AM
What's wrong with waiting for BMW to fix it, but in the meantime doing something to make the ride better?

The key work here is WAITING--as we make payments and watch our vehicle depreciate. I want the driving pleasure NOW--every day I drive this vehicle with the balky trans is a day that I like it less...other than the trans and some electronic gremlins its a great vehicle, But for $46k I expect more. As I mentioned in other posts in my travels I have rented vehicles and all have had better performing transmissions--and they were probably not as well maintained as mine and were driven by all kinds of drivers but none had the hesitation, and shifting problems like my X3. My first scheduled maint is coming up and I will ask for the latest programming at that time...we will see what happens.

bmwadam
01-22-2008, 08:27 AM
So I am on my 5th BMW and had nasty electrical issues and total frustration for 5 months until someone at BMW really got on the case and had all electronic components replaced in my car. Sad you get ignored until you threaten to get lawyers involved. I was lucky, I video taped it all, and if there was a dispute, I would produce the evidence. Thankfully it didn't go that far. They finally stepped up as I was getting ready to launch a legal case. Must have been a rather expensive job, but that what warranty is for.

My 330 had tranny failure twice. Was on third AT whne I sold it with 127K on the odo. Tranny was the only issue the car had though. That AT was the worst I have ever expirienced, and yes it was GM. Don't know who is to blame, but it was a GM tranny in the E46. I swore off BMW after my tranny issues, but a drive in the 335 AT brought me back to the fold. The ZF AT is the best I have ever driven.:thumbup:

Some of the e46 trannys had a reverse gear issue. GM put a plastic part that was prone to break. You have to be VERY careful when putting it into reverse, it is always best to wait a few seconds and let it fully engage, before hitting the gas. But it does not excuse using a plastic part! Also I tend to think many of these e46 failures are lifetime fluid related. In my own exp, autos that have been serviced tend to outlast the ones that havnt. Despite these issues the GM trannys in the e46 did not exhibit the severity of the e83 tranny problems that we are seeing now. The e46 tranny lets you know when it is starting to fail, whereas it seems this new 6spd setup just decides on its own to not work just when you need it too....

Tlon
01-23-2008, 06:34 AM
The key work here is WAITING--as we make payments and watch our vehicle depreciate. I want the driving pleasure NOW--every day I drive this vehicle with the balky trans is a day that I like it less...other than the trans and some electronic gremlins its a great vehicle, But for $46k I expect more. My first scheduled maint is coming up and I will ask for the latest programming at that time...we will see what happens.

Hey, thanks for making my point. I'm not waiting. I actually enjoy driving my car now with a simple fix.

My first scheduled maint is coming up and I will ask for the latest programming at that time...we will see what happens.

And, you'll have to tell me how going for your scheduled maintenance and asking for the latest programming is fighting for a fix to the problem. Please. You're not doing any more than anyone else, well, maybe except complaining and insulting people who do try to help.

ycrazyy
01-23-2008, 06:17 PM
And, you'll have to tell me how going for your scheduled maintenance and asking for the latest programming is fighting for a fix to the problem. Please. You're not doing any more than anyone else, well, maybe except complaining and insulting people who do try to help.
The answer is none of the fixes ever work and BMW knows it. I brought my 07 build X3 in last week for its yearly maintenance. They had it back in November because the radiator decided to blow and they did the tranny reprogramming then as well since I had them fix whatever issues I was having. It worked well for about a week, and then it was back to its old self. When I brought it in last week I told the SA that I was having the tranny issues again... he responded, and I quote this as close as possible, "Yeah, we know there's a problem and we just haven't been able to fix it. We have them in the 2008's as well and have gotten a lot of complaints. Aside from pulling all of the trannys and replacing them, which probably wouldn't fix the issue anyway, there's nothing we can really do." This was the first time I had ever heard a BMW person saying anything like this. When they are this aware, and people are put in dangerous situations (I knock on wood that I have not encountered what I would consider a life threatening one, but certainly a scary one) it is amazing that they do not make an active effort to resolve the issue. It is sad to see a company like this, which I love, treat their customers, rather people, like this...

kjboyd
01-23-2008, 06:32 PM
I've been driving BMWs for almost 20 years, and it's the worst one I have ever had.. .so much so that it is being bought back and I'm going to Honda at least for a while.

Zoltar
01-23-2008, 07:28 PM
The strange thing is that the last update pretty much fixed mine. I get a little jerky shifting when its cold, otherwise its ok. I never get any hesitation anymore. I wonder if this mystery will ever be solved.

hunterz4
01-23-2008, 07:50 PM
I've been driving BMWs for almost 20 years, and it's the worst one I have ever had.. .so much so that it is being bought back and I'm going to Honda at least for a while.

Congrats, again. Pilot?

kjboyd
01-23-2008, 09:04 PM
Truthfully, I'm looking at a Civic EX-L. I just need to "simplify" my life for a while and 22MPG rather than 12 would be wonderful. I know, I know, let the flames begin.

Evlengr
01-23-2008, 09:45 PM
Nope just how you got rid of it........ I have my review happening next week. I bought it in February and it seems to me they are trying to drag it out until Lemon Laws wont apply.

WoW a whole year of being BS'd.

matti
01-25-2008, 06:24 PM
Evlengr is correct in this claim as I and others have experienced a total lack of throttle response. After 2 software updates mine is much better but not 100%. I think the bulk of the problem still lies in the inconsistent and slow throttle response although the tranny is still odd and frustrating to drive with in city traffic.

Evlengr
01-25-2008, 06:36 PM
Tuesday the mechanic from BMWNA is checking my X3. I will also be getting a review the same week from a private BMW mechanic. I suggest you do the same since they have lied to me since day one concerning this problem. The first line is "No one else complains about this. The next, "This is the way the car drives." The next, "We drove it and can find nothing wrong."

Don't let BMWNA go on this. They are counting on wearing you down.... so you give up.

viii_ball
01-26-2008, 05:25 AM
Here is an email from the Service Manager at my dealer on the topic of my transmission issues:

"The BMW field service Engineer came in on Thursday afternoon looked at your case and asked if we had programmed the DME( which id the computer brain of the car). We had not. What was reprogrammed was the EGS( the computer brain for the transmission). So, I said all of this to say we will try to program the DME in your car. I can tell you this if the condition continues then this is a normal characteristic to the car.

In our conversation on the phone, I mentioned that my family owns an X3 and the shifting for us is similar to your X3. When the car is cold not after the vehicle has been warmed up.

Please let us know a day you would like to schedule an appointment."

This will be the third time it has been in the shop with a complaint on this issue since November.

Here is the email I sent back to him:

Thank you for the response. Since this is my wifes car I assume any day next week will be fine with her as long as she can get the loaner. While I very much appreciate the effort XXX BMW is putting forth to try and fix this issue I can not accept "if the condition continues then this is a normal characteristic to the car". Its not "normal", it is potentially dangerous. I have done quite a bit of research and there is a small subset of 2007 and 2008 X3's that experience this issue so it is not a "normal" way the X3 should drive. I happen to own one that has a problem. It would appear to me that BMW corporate needs to take ownership of this issue and find a fix.

I am going to use a terrible analogy but I think it makes my point. If you went to buy roses for your wife (girlfriend, significant other) and they smelled like dog poop, and the guy behind the counter said "thats just a normal characteristic" would your wife still be happy with them? And as I have said, its more than being unhappy with the way the transmission jerks and lurches making for a frustrating drive in traffic. Its a large concern over lack of throttle response potentially putting occupants of the vehicle in a dangerous situation.

I will call you later this morning to arrange a service time.

Andrew*Debbie
01-26-2008, 05:50 AM
Here is an email from the Service Manager at my dealer on the topic of my transmission issues:

"The BMW field service Engineer came in on Thursday afternoon looked at your case and asked if we had programmed the DME( which id the computer brain of the car). We had not. What was reprogrammed was the EGS( the computer brain for the transmission). So, I said all of this to say we will try to program the DME in your car. I can tell you this if the condition continues then this is a normal characteristic to the car.



Did they even read the TSB? The patch is for both.

Yet another example of bad service from this dealer.

You need to find another dealer ASAP. The one you have been working with is entirely incompetent.

viii_ball
01-26-2008, 06:20 AM
Did they even read the TSB?

Does anyone know of any way to get a hold of the service bulletins that attempt to address this issue? Also does anyone know the exact TSB # so i can ask my dealer for a copy?

kjboyd
01-26-2008, 07:42 AM
SI B 24 08 07 for the trans
SI B 12 17 07 for the DME

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B24 08 07 dated May 2007.
designates changes to this revision
SUBJECT
GM6 - Various Transmission and Driveability Complaints

SUBJECT
N52K - DME Software Improvements
MODEL
E83 (X3) with the N52K engine produced from 8/2006 up to 10/2007
SITUATION
The customer may complain of any of the following situations:
1. Poor throttle response or lack of power when accelerating at lower speeds.
2. The engine may crank too long before starting or may occasionally require a second attempt.
3. Loss of power at idle, or when slowing to a stop, in vehicles equipped with an automatic
transmission
All of these situations would not cause a fault code to be set in the DME.
CAUSE
DME software calibration

bmwadam
01-26-2008, 03:11 PM
I have a friend with an 04 M54B25 with a auto. This car is slow!!! BUT it has about 92k miles on it. I sriously think he has the ultimate X3 in mileage. He is a traveling salesman. He was thinking about buying a new one, but the tranny issues scared him off. He has decided to keep the very slow 2.5 and see just how far he can take it. So far he hasnt had any major problems, other than a window regulator and some door trim issues.

BMW had an auto that seemed to work pretty good. Too bad...

Evlengr
01-26-2008, 10:50 PM
Maybe BMWNA will get the hint with all the lost sales of X3's.

Someone will want a better explanation than the economy at corporate.

And they will find it cheaper to fix them then to ignore them.

HT417
01-27-2008, 12:58 AM
Evl,

I sent you a PM.

justinxyz
01-27-2008, 05:54 AM
I'm considering taking over the lease of a work associates 2006 BMW X3. It has 2 years left at $350/mon and about 800 miles/mon (which is ok since it would be my second car) It's fully loaded with the winter package sun roof , leather ect. and comes equipped with the 3.0 engine/auto transmission.

Pros/Cons??????

Thanks:dunno:

Evlengr
01-28-2008, 06:19 AM
24 hours and counting til drop off with BMWNA mechanic review.

Interestingly enough my new supervisor is an avid BMW driver and has several. He informed me he has none of the issues I have gone through with the X3.

I drove his new X5 08 and the shifting is transparent.

UncleJ
01-28-2008, 08:50 AM
Tne new X5's have a ZF sourced 6 speed auto.

Irish Paul
01-28-2008, 11:05 AM
So how is your lawsuit going?
Your first post mentioned that you were definitely going to sue.

Evlengr
01-28-2008, 11:42 AM
Actually it stated I would be calling an attorney, of which I did.

At his suggestion I am giving BMWNA one more chance to "fix" the problem.

Their "uber" mechanic will be looking at my vehicle this week.

After that I have an independent mechanic slated to review the vehicle if BMW and my viewpoint differs.

TMQ
04-11-2008, 05:17 PM
Sorry to bring back an old thread, and thought I would share my experience. Driving a Lexus SUV on the highway in the middle lane, a semi on the right lane decided to come over. Seeing the mountain of steel rushing over, there was no time to react but mad steer to the left in a hurry. Luckily no one was on the left. then of course I almost hit the concrete on the left and had to correct it by steering to the right. After a couple of corrections, the car finally stabilizes without going belly up.

My wife and her friend thought that was the moment to say bye bye to everything. Since I have thought more about car safety, stability, acceleration, braking and handling ability.

matti
04-12-2008, 07:32 AM
24 hours and counting til drop off with BMWNA mechanic review...

I'm dropping mine off Monday for the same.

chrisusnret
04-12-2008, 04:47 PM
Wow, glad to hear all passengers are well Evlengr......never mind if there was damage to the car (although you say there wasn't), the fact that no one was hurt is primary!

As for the X3 and its tranny problems, this has got to be the sword into the dragon! A nearly fatal accident in a vehicle with as screwed up a tranny as the X3 should be a wake-up call to BMWNA and the lawyers waiting to start the class-action lawsuit.

Good luck in your pursuit, keep us informed!

Evlengr
04-12-2008, 05:17 PM
Thansk Chris..this happened back in January and is why I have taken such a militant approach to having BMWNA own up to their mistake.

As far as class action suits..I am told they take forever, and the sooner I am out of this X3 the better.

It should be noted that I have asked for an MT as a trade off, because imo it is the GM6 AT that is the problem. And BMWNA's lack of disclosure.
I ask that those who see this refer to the sticky thread with the AT tranny at the top of the page. Many people are happy wtih their X3's and only the 07, early 08 seem to have this problem.

Thanks Again, and will keep you posted and the pressure on BMWNA til they make good.

Cheers,

Yay-Z
04-12-2008, 08:54 PM
Sounds to me like 99% of the problem is that you're an incompetent driver.
thats harsh

Yay-Z
04-12-2008, 08:58 PM
A vehicle with a good automatic will almost never generate delta v on command. You are driving a slow vehicle with a transmission that you already knew you was balky, yet you insisted on depending on said balky transmission for delta v immediately. Braking is not generally ideal, but it is a great deal more certain, and there are very few cars that can accelerate faster than they can slow down (and most of those are defective).

Moreover, if you couldn't safely maneuver out of the way, you're better off letting him hit you. With your racing experience you should know damned well that contact can be better than the alternative.
Wow it gets worse

Zeke77
04-12-2008, 09:05 PM
OK, so there has been SO much discussion on the tranny (sticky, etc...) and yet it is still not clear to me if this is a design defect, a manufacturing error that has impacted a certain production run, or simply sensitivity to different driving styles.

We've now got 7k miles on our 2008 X3, and we've not noticed the tranny issues or safety concerns. That said, there is clearly something going on given all of the complaints. Did we just get lucky on our production run? Was it simply fixed in the '08s? Do we just drive it like grandma going to church? (you don't have to actually answer that last one...)

I drive my 650 (MT) fairly hard, but the X3 is our daily driver. I feel just as safe in either car.

Evlengr
04-13-2008, 05:39 AM
I would keep this thread to the sticky at the top. To finish the questions:


As far as the 08 being better. It seems that X3's being built in 07 have a higher probability of this happening. If they fixed it in the 08 we will never know since BMWNA has taken a hard line stance of "No Problem Found" so to admit that it was corrected in the 08's would
admit that it was wrong before. "Either you're lying now, or you were lying before" kind of thing.


Not sure why some of these past comments were resurrected but, I was originally told I drove to slow as the reason for this happening. Until I proved that I had raced before. And one of the many reasons I don't race anymore is because of severe back injury's twice, which may result in permanent paralysis if hit hard enough again. Hence, not wanting to take a rear hit.

More importantly, no matter how well your toddler is strapped in, you have an innate characteristic to avoid injuries at almost any cost. Taking a hit with just you in the car is easy. Try it, with your family.

However, let's keep this to the sticky above for easy reference.

IMR
04-14-2008, 12:29 PM
FYI HT: the odometers are usually set to a negative number say (-5miles) so that it comes as close to 0 as possible on delivery.

This is not correct for any car I'm aware of. I suspect it is illegal in some countries (like the US). Do you have evidence BMW does this?

Billd104
04-14-2008, 01:09 PM
Just my 2 worth... I drove a 2008 328i as a loaner while my 2007 530xiT was in the shop. I experienced the acceleration lag that you speak of. Very unsettling when you are asking for power and nothing happens. I'm not used to that with my 530. Press gas, get power. Should be pretty simple one would think. :yikes:

3seriesbmw
05-10-2008, 02:26 PM
If you'da had a good american made vehicle you'd have no problems. I run everything from John Deere tractors to Kenworth W900 semi's, no problems. For vehicles GM 3/4 tons and my wife's yukon. No problems out of any of these.

Rebound X3
05-10-2008, 02:31 PM
You're a genius, nothing else to say about it.

3seriesbmw
05-10-2008, 08:11 PM
that was my brother but were you being sarcastic or serious?

Rebound X3
05-11-2008, 04:03 PM
If you have to ask...

3seriesbmw
05-11-2008, 05:13 PM
Just making sure for a second I thought you were the crazy one.:eek: