A strange engine question

[SGT Ski]

I'm looking for help on a odd quest. I'm wondering if anyone did a rebuild of their motor and by chance took pics of the back of the motor where the bell housing mounts up.

I'm specifically looking for pics of the diesel and the bigger sixes from the mid to late 80's.

My 740 died a horrible death in a 6 car pile up. :mad::cry::cry::cry::cry: I walked away without a scratch, she took a licking so I could keep on ticking.:thumbup:

So I have started driving my old Range Rover Classic as my daily driver well her motor is tired and thirsty. In my searches I found rumors that the rover and bimmer engines use the same bell housings and will mate directly up since they both use a zf trans. So I'm hoping to transplant a diesel bmw engine into her or if I can't locate one a big six. Hence the quest for obscure photos. To see if I can get the info without buying a motor to find out.

thanks in advance:thumbup:

[SGT Ski]

Any info you might have to offer or pics of the tranny that goes behind one of these two beasts would be great!

[shamulater]

It's been a couple dozen years since I've played this game (have several diesel transplants under my belt but was more involved with Chevy small blocks). It does appear that both use the same trannie...the ZF 4HP22 automatic...no idea how wide spread this trannie was used in BMW's case. With that, I'd assume the bolt pattern is the same. However, that may be the easy part. Generally when I was involved with engine transplants, I'd begin by cross referencing certain key componets. The input shaft of the trannie, clutch or T-convertor, flex plate, etc. While the trannie may well be the same, the input shaft could easily be different. It's easy enough to bolt up the trannie and engine but getting the guts inbetween to work can be problematic. I generally found my best sources with the aftermarket suppliers since they tend to keep part numbers to a minimum and used excellant cross referencing (no idea if thats still the case these days). Unfortunately my experience extends only to the early Land Rovers (Jeeps and Landcruisers also) and then only using the manual transmission. ..at least as far as the Land Rover was concerned. I'll do a bit of digging (since I know what to look for) and see what I can turn up. Who knows, may even find someone who's already completed this conversion. Here's a quick look which may help as far as a picture is concerned.
http://www.bimmer.info/~rickm/trannyrepairs.htm

[shamulater]

Can't find anything as yet that relates to this engine swap. These 2 sources may be of help.
http://www.stanton4x4.com/index.html

http://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/engine/diesel/isuzuclassic.html

I'd probably contact Stanton since they will have more than likely investigated the likelyhood of using the BMW engine (in my limited experience, I've tried and failed at several different possible swaps...they would have also).

The Isuzu swap looks interesting but unless you have access to a fairly complete machine shop, it may be over your head (what this guy accomplished is not difficult but it cannot be faked with less than the right equipment).

[SGT Ski]

If the inputs are a tad different but the outputs are the same in theory I could swap the tranny that came with the engine into the rover as well. Going on the assumption that the case lengths are the same.

I appreciate the help so far and any other ideas/thoughts you come up with. I'll start trying the cross referencing approach when I get home from work and I'll check out the first link than as well it's a blocked site here at work lol

Thanks so far shamulater.

[shamulater]

More than likely there's some differences in output configuration. The chances are that the tail shaft housing on the 2 wheel drive vehicle is not present with the Rover. Most 4 wheel drives had the transfer case bolt directly to the trannie minus the tail shaft housing. Being that they're the same trannie should generally mean that once the tail shaft housing is gone, they're still identical. I've had issues with early chevy turbo trans where I did have to replace that inner output shaft to mate to a transfer case even though both trannies were for the most part identical (except one being for 2 wheel and the other for 4). One other area to double check (while I'm thinking about) is front differential clearance between banjo housing and new motor oil pan. I have no idea what the Range Rover uses as far as front drive. If it's independant then there's probably no clearance issues. About the only other helpful hint that comes to mind is your possibly new transfer case location. I've seen literally dozens of engine swaps done where the owner didn't want to deal with having the driveshafts modified. They ended up placing the engine too far back or too far forward in their efforts to save existing driveshaft lengths. Get your motor in the most ideal location possible and deal with the driveshafts as needed.

[SGT Ski]

It has a solid axel up front but there is tons of clearance in there that I don't think that will be an issue as long as it's a rear sump pan.

On the tranny it would seem that I could swap out enough parts to make one or the other work just fine. The big question would be the ratio's if using the main body of the bmw tranny. There might be some differences there with a 5700 pound truck lol.

I found a 86 535 with 100k with the tranny for $200 Horsepower and torque in stock form are almost the same as the 3.9 v8 that is in it currently. I'll have to do a little searching to see if this motor has any known week spots.

Of course one of my rover buddies thinks I should buy a old 750il that's by his work that has a good running v12 in it but the body is rotted completely out.

[shamulater]

Now your talking...V12 in the Rover...yeah!!!

[SGT Ski]

I think it would be a great swap but this is my Daily Driver and the gas would be killer not to mention stuffing that beast in the engine bay. The 3.9 v8 in it now only gets 9-10 around town and 14-15 on the highway. But hell if the price is cheap enough hmmmmmmm lol. Unfortunately pulling that one off is probably more than I can do on my own and being a cheap bastard I do all my own work.

I'm trying to start the cross referencing you mentioned is there a good site for the BMW parts fiche so I can look at the diagrams etc...

[SGT Ski]

found one realoem.com it would appear they use different bell housings but they are removable so I could change them out. I would have to use the bmw torque converter I'm guessing haven't been able to determine that one yet

[shamulater]

found one realoem.com it would appear they use different bell housings but they are removable so I could change them out. I would have to use the bmw torque converter I'm guessing haven't been able to determine that one yet If we start at the motor and work back, the flex plate would no doubt have to be BMW since it requires that the starter engage with the plate. Now as to which torque convertor would work...some simple measurements would tell the story on that one. My first check would be the depth of the bolt on bellhousing...see if there's any differences there (if there is, it's mostly likely due to differences in length of input shaft or larger convertor). I'd be inclined to try and stay with the Rover convertor since it's no doubt set up for more low end torque as opposed to the BMW one. Adapting the Rover convertor to a BMW flex plate is a relatively simple matter (or at least it use to be when I was involved with this stuff). A company I use to work with in making 1 off adapters could easy make a flex plate that will engage the BMW starter and bolt up to the Rover convertor.
http://www.wilcap.com/
Now owned by some new people but I understand they still do custom work. They use to modify my driveshafts too (any good machine shop can do this). Hot Rod City days back in Torrance. I'm trying to locate the son of the former owner and get some input from him. He was extremely knowledgable about converting gas to diesel powered (as was his dad, Tony...check the history page of that link). Anyway it sounds like your on the right track. A little more research..maybe a few phone calls to get exact measurements. I'll keep digging and we'll turn up something.:thumbup:

[shamulater]

No luck on tracking down the son of Wilcap Tony. Also no luck on finding anything directly related to the swap in question. Probably best source (or at least the one I'd take at this time) is to talk your way into both a BMW and Ranger Rover dealership service area and do a comparison. I would think any large dealership would have few trannies laying around.

[SGT Ski]

that's not a half bad idea and the wife has been trying to decide between a x3 and the lr2. So maybe I can get the vulture to grease the wheels on getting me back there for a peak. I'm really trying to talk her into the LR2 since it seems like people are having so many troubles with the x3. That and the LR2 still is somewhat offroadable lol