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View Full Version : 08 X3 6M Clutch Delay Valve


bobkap
01-29-2008, 05:31 AM
Having driven sticks for 50yrs, I'm somewhat embarrased to say my new X3's clutch is giving me fits. I'm targeting the CDV as the culprit but I wonder if any of you other 6M
owners are experiencing similiar fits.

Symptoms: Unpredictable Engagement, Difficult to synchronize gas and clutch starting out, Somewhat jerky shifting thru the gears, Concern about premature clutch wear due to slipping.

I'm about to spring for a ZECKHAUSEN modified "non-delay" replacement valve but first want to hear from other MT owners.

Best,
bobkap

HT417
01-29-2008, 05:50 AM
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure you'll get it figured out with practice.

Glad my automatic doesn't do that.

Running for cover now.....

Andrew*Debbie
01-29-2008, 06:02 AM
I wouldn't replace the CDV. It is there to protect the drivetrain.

CDV
BMWs have very long clutch pedal travel.
The engine has an unusual amount of low end torque.
The computer holds the brakes on when the clutch is down.

Edit -- If your 635csi is a stick, you should be used to the long clutch travel...

Our 2004 325i was our first BMW with a stick and the CDV. It took us about a month to get smooth starts and shifts.

Or there could be something wrong with your X3.

If it would be helpful, I can make a movie clip of how I drive our X3.

STE92VE
01-29-2008, 06:37 AM
Before I took delivery of my E92, I anticipated doing the CDV mod due to all the posts I had read regarding the poor driveability with the OEM CDV installed. I had even purchased a modified CDV. Perhaps because I had not owned a MT vehicle in a number of years, I had absolutely no issues with the clutch the way it came from the factory and subsequently sold that modified CDV.

I suggest you bring it to your dealer and let them analyze what your problem might be.

dspeed
01-29-2008, 06:48 AM
The long throw, late engagement and low-end torque take some getting used to. The 1 to 2 shift seems to be my nemesis for a smooth shift. I'm still in the adaptation process 10 days after re-delivery. In another 2 weeks, it will be over, I suspect.

bobkap
01-29-2008, 06:52 AM
Thanks for the input,
My 6 is a Euro Alpina, clutch travel is very short, almost abrupt and requires about 4-5X
the effort of my X3. Constantly alternating between them is surely part of the problem.
My wife drives the X beautifully which makes me look like a klutz. Other side is she can't depress the 6's clutch pedal unless she uses both feet. Suppose I'll suck it up and ask my wife for driving lessons and take you up on the movie clip offer.
Thanks,
bobkap

X3 Skier
01-29-2008, 07:02 AM
Went from a Ford Ranger to the X3 manual. Almost snapped the CA's head off on my first demo drive. His comment was, "You will get used to it" and I did.

Cheers

Andrew*Debbie
01-29-2008, 07:38 AM
My 6 is a Euro Alpina,

Nice car! Do you have photos posted anywhere?

I'll get on the movie clip. I may not get to it until this weekend. Need daylight.

Havelcek
01-29-2008, 08:25 AM
Nice car! Do you have photos posted anywhere?

I'll get on the movie clip. I may not get to it until this weekend. Need daylight.

You should work for BMW...you do a lot more to advance their customer service than they do.

bobkap
01-29-2008, 09:16 AM
No photos posted but it's an "80, polaris silver, black buffalo leather recaro interior, adjustable suspension with Getrag close ratio 5spd box & 3.07 posi rear. When I crank it on the highway, it's so loud, fast and ominous that it scares the bejesus out of everyone including me.
Ran against a friends "88 M6 and took him by 3 cars before shutting down at +140mph.
It sleeps in an alarmed and heated garage alongside my Tii and Tri-Power GTO with 2 very protective Rottweilers as bunk mates.
It's much more driving machine than I am driver; suicidal in the wrong hands!

bmwadam
01-29-2008, 12:59 PM
I personally dont like the CDV. Unless you have a kid driving your car, OR your new to driving a manual, you do not need it. Ive got about 150k on the clutch in my e36 and it is still enaging fine, it does not have a CDV, although I suspect I will need to change it in the next year or so.

I have never exp. it, BUT I have been told that if you put the modified valve in the place of the CDV, the clutch will last longer. My dad has a 2001 540 with about 130k with the CDV and it is shifting fine. So I am not sure how accurate this "premature" wear is.

That being said I did drive an e46 330 car with the CDV removed and it seemed to shift better.... There is a DIY on here somewhere on how to chenage it out. It depends on the type of car and gearbox but sometimes it is not a difficult process, although I have never done it so I cant speak from exp.

AzNMpower32
01-29-2008, 03:37 PM
There's really no need for the CDV. Go to the e46 forum and the first thing people do once warranty goes is take it away.

Mystic1
01-29-2008, 07:50 PM
I have always driven a MT since I started driving 22 yrs ago, and the X3's clutch has been the worst one to get used to. That 1-2 shift can be a PITA sometimes, others can be smooth as can be. It seems that you have to slip the clutch a bit to get a really good shift. I do not drive the car every day as it is my wife's car, but I drive it enough to be used to the clutch/trans. We have had it for 3 years now, and I still haven't mastered it. My wife was looking at other vehicles before we bought it off lease, and she mentioned that another car had a much better manual transmission because of the clutch. She has asked me if there is anything I can do to fix it on the X3 and I told her about the CDV and she jumped on me to get it done now. If it isn't any better afterwards, I will put it back in, but I have a strong feeling it will be a lot better.

markled
01-29-2008, 11:37 PM
If its the long throw that's making it difficult to gauge when the clutch is engaging, you might want to try screwing in a clutch stop; it gets rid of about an inch of clutch travel, and brings the clutch "floor" up to within an inch and a half of actual engagement point.

bobkap
01-30-2008, 05:22 AM
markled,
Sounds like a great idea, but what is it, where do I get it and how is it installed?
Please advise.
bobkap

M3Addict
01-30-2008, 06:41 AM
There's really no need for the CDV. Go to the e46 forum and the first thing people do once warranty goes is take it away.

A ton of people in the Z forum remove it immediately after purchase. Run a search in that forum for a detailed DIY

markled
01-30-2008, 07:11 AM
markled,
Sounds like a great idea, but what is it, where do I get it and how is it installed?
Please advise.
bobkap

bobkap, it's basically a stopper that's screwed onto the floor under the clutch pedal arm to limit its movement.

here's a link that explains what it does.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/clutch_stop/index.htm

Or you can make your own and see if it works first, before getting something more durable.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206363

In the x3, you don't have a whole lot of free play to adjust, as the engine-start sensor limits how much clutch travel you can shorten with the stop. It only removes an inch of travel at most, but in my case it did make a difference. If you do end up with one from uuc, you'll need to shorten the bolt around 3/4 of an inch by cutting it.

The DIY version fit perfectly in mine, length and all, however screwing a 3/8 bolt into a metric hole didnt sit well with me. Others have suggested using an m10 size bolt, if you are able to find one.

X3 Skier
01-30-2008, 07:13 AM
markled,
Sounds like a great idea, but what is it, where do I get it and how is it installed?
Please advise.
bobkap

Try Bavarian Autosport http://www.bavauto.com/.

Cheers

bobkap
01-30-2008, 12:44 PM
markled,
Great help, thanks so much!
I'll try the M10 DIY version first since M stuff is readily available here at my plant.
Thanks again
bobkap

Andrew*Debbie
02-02-2008, 06:13 PM
I've made some videos. Sorry, they aren't edited. The YouTube remixer isn't working and I'm too lazy to transfer the videos to Debbie's iMac to edit.


This first video is on the streets around my house. Low speed driving. Lots of stops and starts. Some of the shifts are a little bumpy as I hadn't driven the X3 for several days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1VuM_jpnSM

Andrew*Debbie
02-02-2008, 06:22 PM
Driving out of my house and turning on to the main road. I'm shifting better now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8rvNq3CfN2I


How I 'heal and toe' the X3. The brake and the clutch are close enough and my feet are wide enough, that I do it this way:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=134519&stc=1&d=1202001841

Andrew*Debbie
02-02-2008, 06:30 PM
More driving in Atlanta city traffic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UF_5khREc2w

Heading south on Cheshire Bridge Road towards Buford Highway.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=79rGytqCSvk

Andrew*Debbie
02-02-2008, 06:41 PM
About 41 seconds in, someone ran a red light as I was turning left on to Buford Highway.


The Prius went the other way, so I was able to do a couple smooth full throttle upshifts.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s5nV6stnKUA



I'm self taught and always looking to improve my driving. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

IMR
02-03-2008, 11:20 AM
Removing the CDV is highly recommended and makes a big difference. I haven't done it to our X3 because my spouse drives the X3 exclusively, and she figured out the secret of smooth shifting. Of course, now if she tries to drive either of our other manual transmission cars she trips all over herself. I removed the CDV in my M Coupe and there was a huge, positive improvement in shift-ability.

The CDV "protection of the drivetrain" story is bunk, except during a clutch dump at high RPM. In fact, given the repeated shocks to the drivetrain from the "CDV jerk", I suspect the CDV is actually hindering reliability and long life for the gears, u-joints, and differentials.

If I drove our X3 more than once per month I know I'd get off my butt and make that CDV history.

STE92VE
02-04-2008, 07:41 AM
Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for the videos. :thumbup: It's always interesting to see how other people drive MT to compare it to your own style.

As to suggestions:

1- best not to have the music playing on a demonstration video....:D

2- clean up this debris under your accelerator.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=134519&stc=1&d=1202001841

Skottoman
02-05-2008, 01:47 PM
Man, we don't have our X3 yet, but I sure hope the steering wheel tilts down more than that!
Looks like you're driving a VW Vanagon!
Cheers,
Skottoman

Andrew*Debbie
02-05-2008, 02:06 PM
Man, we don't have our X3 yet, but I sure hope the steering wheel tilts down more than that!
Looks like you're driving a VW Vanagon!
Cheers,
Skottoman

LOL. Compared to a Lotus, an X3 is a Vanagon.

The angle I shot the video at exaggerates the driving position.

I had a hard time finding somewhere to mount the camera. I wanted a clear view of the tach and what my feet were doing. In the end I mounted the camera looking down from outside the sunroof.


Yes the wheel tilts down a lot more, but that would ruin the sight line to the gauges. I could put the seat lower too, but it just wouldn't be right.

Our other car is a Miata, and well, the X3 is way up in the air.

Vid of me driving the MX-5. It was a lot easier to get a decent camera angle.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2907791323637246766&hl=en

Skottoman
02-05-2008, 02:40 PM
Haha... thanks, i was just givin' you crap. I'm sure I'll have to adjust to that steering wheel angle. Thanks for posting these though!
Cheers,
Skottoman

AzNMpower32
02-05-2008, 02:49 PM
It's all perspective. Coming from a Lotus or a mx-5, the X3 feels big and cumbersome. But have you driven an American SUV lately?

I swap between an mx-5, 325i sport, and the X3 (primary for me). The MX-5 feels almost too small, and the top of the windshield slightly obscures my view even though I'm only 175cm (5' 8"). The 3 feels good but the side mirrors are too small. The X3 feels slightly taller in comparison but not bad. In all cars, I have the seat height mostly all the way down and the steering wheel angle a bit down so that the top of the steering wheel lines up with the top rim of the gauges.