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tonygreggaz
01-29-2008, 05:56 PM
OK, so I am comming of a lease and getting ready for my next car. I love the X3, though with all the bells I want am pushing $49K, also some of the things I have been reading here makes me wonder if I should look at something else. Have anyone moved from an X3 to the RDX or MDX? Thougths, advice, and input will be appreciated! Thanks,

zznalg
01-29-2008, 09:12 PM
I posted this before on this board. I now own a 2007 manual X3 which I really like. Here's my earlier post about my ownership experience with the Acura RDX -which led to my happily owning a 2007 manual BMW X3:

The Acura RDX: Powertrain Blues
by zznalg:

Pros: Handling, Practicality, Reliability, Comfortable Seats, not too big
Cons: Extremely sluggish off the line, dangerously unreliable and unpredictable power delivery, no available manual, extremely harsh ride, road and wind noise.
The Bottom Line: Fatally flawed power delivery. With a manual transmission, engine tweaks, better sound insulation and a more compliant ride, the RDX could earn 5 stars. As is, avoid it.

The following is based upon 17,000 miles with the RDX after 7 months of ownership:

I'm extremely disappointed in the powertrain. Over all, the RDX is worthy of some degree of praise. The vehicle appears to be solid and built of one piece, good handling and nimble, comfortable and practical. It is reliable, comfortable etc. etc. I am not minimizing its attributes. However, the automatic transmission coupled with the turbo-4 and ..... I feel that I am usually playing the "wait for power" game. It is terribly slow off the line. Between the turbo's lag -yes it really exists- and the transmission's being in too high a gear 25-50% of the time, I find myself cussing this powertrain ---in an otherwise very good vehicle. I press the pedal 3/4 and... nothing. I am still in second gear at 5-10 MPH waiting for the power which doesn't appear. Where is first!!? Wait.... Throw it into S-Manual mode. Nice try. Paddle shifters sound like a good idea but are limited in practice. To shift from 5th to 2nd for example requires three depresses on the left shift paddle at slow intervals. If the paddle is popped three times in rapid succession, nothing happens! The system responds slowly. And, there is no way to know definitively what gear one is in without checking the dashboard readout. This, on top of the turbo's lag and the auto box's upshift happy tendency in either "D" or "S" modes, leads to a very frustrating driving experience for the seasoned manual transmission driver. Another observation of powertrain characteristics: During normal driving around town, when more power is called for by rapidly depressing the accelerator .5 inches to a full inch, there is a one to two second blip when the power actually diminishes before a downshift.

In my opinion, these "power-failures" are downright dangerous and could easily lead to an accident. Too often, power is simply NOT THERE when you need it.

This is such a shame because the RDX is otherwise a relatively fine and fairly high-powered vehicle. Count me as 'starting to look for my next vehicle". Too bad. With one of Honda/Acura's fine manuals, this would pretty much all be moot.

I met someone recently who test drove the RDX and ruled it out because of powertrain lag. He noted that in a situation such as maneuvering into a hole in tight traffic, acceleration response was unreliable and unpredictable. The only way to be assured of power is to nearly punch it -resulting in a very strong jolt of power. However when one needs to floor it so very often just to rouse a response from the powertrain, this jolt quickly gets tiresome.

On top of powertrain issues, the RDX has a very rough hard ride which gets uncomfortable over a few miles ***8211;even on the highway. Moreover, road and wind noise are pronounced at hwy speeds of 75 mph and above. On the plus side, after 17,000 miles, the only reliability/quality problem I experienced were a couple of intermittent rattles that mostly diminished over time. Fuel economy averaged 20 mpg at 80 percent highway driving at about 80 MPH.

Refinement of the RDX is abysmal in terms of driveability. It may impress on a test drive with strong bursts of power upon downshift, tight handling and flashy interior styling. Living with the RDX brings into extreme focus its ridiculously unreliable power delivery, brutal inability to handle average to slightly below average road bumps, road/wind noise, and an unfortunate mini-van-esque rear end.
Avoid at all costs. It is not worth the "value".

I have traded in my RDX for an X3 and have not looked back.

Evlengr
01-29-2008, 10:04 PM
There are also a lot of positive posts for the RDX on other "zine" sites. In fact many talk of trading in their X3's.

As one of the more vocal people berating BMWNA atm I can say I would love to have BMWNA buy back my current 07 of which I would get a MT, or just trade me a manual.

Currently my 07 X3 is waiting for a review by one of BMWNA's master mechanics. If we dont see eye to eye I will end up shopping for a new SUV since I cant keep the X3 (Lemon Laws).

It's shift lag has come close to getting me killed twice and my family once too many times.

My wife won't ride in it or drive it anymore. It is way to unpredictable on its response.

Funny zznalg gives an almost a perfect description of what my X3 does and has done when entering a traffic circle or evading a preoccupied driver that almost side-swiped my wife and daughter.

I quote his line about the RDX, "In my opinion, these "power-failures" are downright dangerous and could easily lead to an accident. Too often, power is simply NOT THERE when you need it."

This is the AT 07 X3 I drive and is currently in the shop.


Bottom line is the tranny in the 07 and 08 is crap, but the rest of the vehicle is so good it is worth a MT.

If it has to go and I can't get a MT X3 I will get an RDX or a RAV at this point.

Martlet66
01-29-2008, 10:29 PM
I drove an RDX for two days while deciding whether to get one or an X3.

I found the turbo lag to be downright silly. Press down on the throttle, the car sluggishly moves, then as the engine revs climb, it's like a switch is thrown and the car leaps ahead. The throttle response is very twitchy, either all on or all off, except at low revs where the turbo hasn't kicked in. Then it's just a slug. Aside from that, it was a decent car, although I found the interior to have a little too much "boy racer" Japanese styling for my taste. I really considered it, especially for the price, but the drivetrain just killed it for me.

If they put a 6 cylinder in the RDX, I would be all over it.

doubledeclutch
01-30-2008, 12:31 AM
There just isn't the same sense of refinment and quality with the RDX. The turbo 4 cyl doesn't help. Not a bad car, just not something you'll fall in love with. The X3 on the other hand, is amazing.

bobkap
01-30-2008, 05:08 AM
Just came off an '04 MDX lease @56K mi. Loved it for features, utility, reliability, comfort and mpg highway, believe it or not, 28-29 @65-75. We wanted smaller for our next so RDX was top of the list, that is, until the demo drive: after 5min on the road, took it back and told the sales manager that after my great MDX experience, I couldn't believe those great Honda engineers could have their collective heads so far up their asses that they opted for a turbo 4 over one of their fabulous V6's.........say a 3.5L version. I predicted that in a year or 2, the RDX would be powered by a V6. Second place on our list was the 08 X3Si; after 2min into the demo, said to my wife, "this is it". We gladly sacrificed some of the bells, whistles and cumfy features of the RDX for owning a super driving machine...6M trans. Soccer moms, airheads and such will probably love the RDX but a real driver wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. As a long time BMW guy I'm happy to live with the marque's many quirks and foibles in order to drive a true machine rather than an ordinary car.
bobkap

STE92VE
01-30-2008, 07:16 AM
Don't know if you saw this yet:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/13076/2007-acura-rdx-v-2007-bmw-x3-v-2008-land-rover-lr2.html

Evlengr
01-30-2008, 07:16 AM
I am not saying the RDX is that much better than the X3. I am simply saying the AT 07 that I drive (and many other customers are having the same problem) has "Shift Lag" which is as dangerous if not more unpredicatable that the RDX's turbo lag.

A lot of people are now reporting the same issue with the 08. If you can get a MT I have heard nothing but good reports on them. So much so that I asked BMWNA to replace mine with a MT.

Quirks and Foibles are one thing--getting you killed due to hesitation is another.

If the salesperson is confident in the X3 --keep it over the weekend and drive around...not a quick hop while watching for the police.

Andrew*Debbie
01-30-2008, 07:46 AM
OI love the X3, though with all the bells I want am pushing $49K


:yikes:

Have you considered European Delivery? You can get an ED X3 for less than $1500 over ED invoice.

For example a 2008 X3 with

Metalic Paint
522 Xenons
ZAP Sports activity package
ZCW Cold weather
ZPP Premium package

USA MSRP is $45,150

ED Invoice + $1500 is $42,590



If you are comfortable driving a stick shift, I strongly recommend ordering your X3 with a manual. We love ours. Most of the AT X3s are ok to. But when they aren't, well you read about it here.

If you are thinking about getting the factory NAV, be sure to give it a good long look before ordering. It uses the hardware from the old e46 platform.

batavia_x3
01-30-2008, 08:47 AM
RDX? Japan - Honda accord or Civic based one

common folks - compare apple with apple
I know lot of folks are confused as me. I was debating between X3 and RX350/RX330.
here is the conclusion:
any japan vehicle rdx/mdx/rx330/crv/ or whatever will be smoother than x3 and has more gadgets in the driving panel.

If you need fun driving experience go with x3, if you think you are sporty person go with X3

AzNMpower32
01-30-2008, 09:40 AM
Well, for starters, the RDX is built in Ohio, just like most Hondas/Acura save the excellent TSX and I guess the lame-duck RL (which isn't a terrible car, just poorly conceived).

I wasn't impressed with the interior of the RDX at all when I saw it at the car show. The plastics showed a lot of scratches, and um what's with the button-fest dashboard?

zznalg
01-30-2008, 10:07 AM
... and um what's with the button-fest dashboard?

Acura thinks it's fashionable/techie. It is in fact very annoying. But of course, the Germans have been doing the same thing. I hope the next TSX avoids this trend.

Kzang
01-30-2008, 10:16 AM
Why even ask this on the BMW forum when 99.9% of the reply is going to say RDX = Sux, X3 = Awesome.....


For the record the X3 is the ugliest BMW I have ever seen... but thats just my opinion.

Bring this topic to the Acura forums and you will get a very different response.

:rolleyes:

AzNMpower32
01-30-2008, 10:41 AM
Acura thinks it's fashionable/techie. It is in fact very annoying. But of course, the Germans have been doing the same thing. I hope the next TSX avoids this trend.
The X3's dash does have a fair amount of buttons. In fact, it only has buttons (except for the volume and sat nav knob). But at least the centre stack is kept low and the buttons aren't massive or take up tons of space. They're all kept in one place, nothing's hidden and nothing sticks out too much.

Compare the two. I know they're terrible shots (thus is the hustle and bustle of past auto shows), but you get the idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/AzN1MpOrT2nR/NYIAS/rdx_dash.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/AzN1MpOrT2nR/AS06/Autoshow06165.jpg

And don't get me started on the Acura sat nav/Bluetooth system. If it's anything like the one in the MDX (non touchscreen), I'd rather not use the Bluetooth at all and use a paper map. :mad:

snb3
01-30-2008, 04:41 PM
Why even ask this on the BMW forum when 99.9% of the reply is going to say RDX = Sux, X3 = Awesome.....


For the record the X3 is the ugliest BMW I have ever seen... but thats just my opinion.

Bring this topic to the Acura forums and you will get a very different response.

:rolleyes:


are you always this useless? Your post adds nothing.

example: for the record, you're the most useless poster in the 'fest I've ever seen....but thats just my opinion.

x3eer
01-30-2008, 05:55 PM
Why even ask this on the BMW forum when 99.9% of the reply is going to say RDX = Sux, X3 = Awesome.....


For the record the X3 is the ugliest BMW I have ever seen... but thats just my opinion.

Bring this topic to the Acura forums and you will get a very different response.

:rolleyes:

did you expect the replies saying X3 = sux, RDX = awesome in BMW forum?

your reply is just useless to this thread.. but that's just my.. and snb3's opinion. :rolleyes:

batavia_x3
01-30-2008, 06:03 PM
ohh god, some body is getting killed on bitching X3 here ... LOL

what I am hearing from dealers and all other bimmer lovers is:
"X3 is one of the greatest product that bimmer ever relased" it is still imported to any country, unlike X5 is assembled here at GM garage???

that you can call sux or whatever. but not on the x3 ..

x3eer
01-30-2008, 06:08 PM
:yikes:

Have you considered European Delivery? You can get an ED X3 for less than $1500 over ED invoice.

For example a 2008 X3 with

Metalic Paint
522 Xenons
ZAP Sports activity package
ZCW Cold weather
ZPP Premium package

USA MSRP is $45,150

ED Invoice + $1500 is $42,590


Agreed.

I did ED for a 2008 X3 with metalic/xenons/sports activity package/parking distance control/heated seats for under 40k, which also includes tax/doc/extended maintenance plan as well.

ED experience was superb and X3 runs and shifts pretty well..

Evlengr
01-30-2008, 06:42 PM
that you can call sux or whatever. but not on the x3 ..

Well I can call SUX---its sitting in the shop for two days now ---- again--- with thee BMWNA mechanic checking it out.

Can't comment if the RDX is better or worse. I can tell you that the shift lag is imo more dangerous than turbo lag since you have a hit or miss of 95/5% . The turbo lag seems to be consistent 100%, Lol.

Just give me a dam MT a lets get this done.

bmwadam
01-30-2008, 07:09 PM
The RDX is boring. The Infiniti EX35 on the other hand, its a good looking ride. I would say that Infiniti is the closest to beating BMW in these market segments at present. That is not to say that they have converted me, but who knows? I also like a dipstick and a temp gauge in my car. BMW dosnt think I need that anymore. Infinti still has them....

AzNMpower32
01-30-2008, 08:11 PM
The RDX is boring. The Infiniti EX35 on the other hand, its a good looking ride. I would say that Infiniti is the closest to beating BMW in these market segments at present. That is not to say that they have converted me, but who knows? I also like a dipstick and a temp gauge in my car. BMW dosnt think I need that anymore. Infinti still has them....
The X3 still has a temp gauge! (Annoyingly however, the warning chime when you start the car is louder in the facelifted models........).

I also like how it still has a wheel to infinitely adjust the gauge cluster brightness to get it just right. In the E90 (and Civic we used to have), it's just a step-by-step kinda thing that I don't like so much. And the "cold airflow" dial on top of the vents actually works fairly precisely. The one in the E90 just goes left and right, and as far as I can tell, makes absolutely no difference in the cool air coming in.

x3eer
01-30-2008, 08:52 PM
Well I can call SUX---its sitting in the shop for two days now ---- again--- with thee BMWNA mechanic checking it out.

Can't comment if the RDX is better or worse. I can tell you that the shift lag is imo more dangerous than turbo lag since you have a hit or miss of 95/5% . The turbo lag seems to be consistent 100%, Lol.

Just give me a dam MT a lets get this done.

gosh.. are you trying to steal every single thread with your extremely horrible life taking AT problem?

we all know you have some issues but you don't have to repeat on every single thread.

something is definetely wrong with you and of course your problematic X3.

Sonoman707
01-30-2008, 09:26 PM
There are also a lot of positive posts for the RDX on other "zine" sites. In fact many talk of trading in their X3's.

As one of the more vocal people berating BMWNA atm I can say I would love to have BMWNA buy back my current 07 of which I would get a MT, or just trade me a manual.

Currently my 07 X3 is waiting for a review by one of BMWNA's master mechanics. If we dont see eye to eye I will end up shopping for a new SUV since I cant keep the X3 (Lemon Laws).

It's shift lag has come close to getting me killed twice and my family once too many times.

My wife won't ride in it or drive it anymore. It is way to unpredictable on its response.


This is the AT 07 X3 I drive and is currently in the shop.


Bottom line is the tranny in the 07 and 08 is crap, but the rest of the vehicle is so good it is worth a MT.

If it has to go and I can't get a MT X3 I will get an RDX or a RAV at this point.


Just curious...

Are you encountering difficulties with BMWNA in working out a buy back or a trade for the MT because of your severe modifcations to the car with custom stereo equipment, etc. ...?



As I stated before, I am an engineer for radio stations. Part of my job is to make sure our stations sound a certain way. A stock radio does not allow me to do this. I use my car's system to analyze the processing of our stations on my 1 1/2 hour commute. My current system has VU meters and multiple adjustments to the tonal quality that let me make better evaluations. Plus good sound systems are not just for "Kids". I didn't say loud I said with quality.

BTW comparing a Bose system to my current system is like comparing a Honda Civic to an M3.

So if someone can tell me how much clearance there is under the back seat (no heater) that would be great.

And for those interested The front and rear doors accept 5 1/4 component type speakers (BMW corporate gave me the metric measurements which I converted).


Ahh again you leap before you look. The alarm is on the inside of the car. It emits a 130db 1kHz frequency. They are directional to the front section, so as not to cause undue noise outside or to the back of the car. So the only person that is truly affected is the one inside the car trying to steal something or the car. He/she leaves the car and no problem. I also ahve an APRS system that will allow tracking similar to a GPS (ten times better than LoJack) I will not go into further detail since a lock is only as good as its key.

Look at new stereo installation in a couple of weeks. I will post full pics. Also I believe I have found a place to hide away amps and external components like the XM transceiver. direcctly behing the back seat and before the lift panel there appears to be a huge amount of dead space. More to come. And yes not having XM is driving me nuts too.

Evlengr
01-30-2008, 10:06 PM
Um no --- I see you can cut and paste ooooh. Brilliant.

It has no bearing on the issue provided it can be put back to it's original state.

And since I designed the system to be removed and the vehicle to be be put back to its original design --- it won't be part of the decision making process other than by me.

BTW there are many posters that I can "Cut and Paste" that orignally were cynically like you and now have the "Shift Lag" issue.

So if you don't great--enjoy the vehicle, but new buyers should be made aware that they may not be getting "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

So you keep adding to the thread since the more hits they get the more people will look.

Sonoman707
01-30-2008, 10:32 PM
Um no --- and go back into the hole whence you came Sono...

And as I designed the system to be removed and the vehicle to be be put back into its original state --- it won't be part of the decision making process other than by me.


Did you read that sticky in the upper left corner of the windshield?

I'm not from a hole... but your non-stop complaining on this board is beyond belief.

"We" can't replace your vehicle. Obviously - by now - you should realize you aren't "strong-arming BMWNA" though this source either. Even more obviously BY NOW - you should realize we all know that you believe your X3 was designed to get you and your family KILLED.

If I had an extra $42K - I'd buy your X3 with the agreement you'd never post here again.

Sorry.

batavia_x3
01-31-2008, 06:17 AM
ohhhh man,

that was very harsh in a bold letter.
what the F in the world. I am not coming to the ****ty forum any more, junks....

Evlengr
01-31-2008, 06:25 AM
Ever read the law? Magnuson -Moss Warranty Act null and voids that comment whether BMWNA likes it or not.

And If I had the extra 42k I'd buy your vehicle so I could save the rest of the drivers on the road the headache of having to deal with short-sighted selfish posters like you. All you think about is yourself. And if you drive any way like you comment--- your are surely one of the drivers most folks can't stand. And are the real reason BMW's get a bad rap.

But as I have said before, " You can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent".

murmur11
01-31-2008, 06:56 AM
So if you don't great--enjoy the vehicle, but new buyers should be made aware that they may not be getting "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

So you keep adding to the thread since the more hits they get the more people will look.

This is very selfish.

If you really want to give a warning to potential buyers or prevent them from buying a faulty X3 based on you experience, that's fine. You can always use a couple of AT problem threads that are still open in this forum. But if that's not enough, you***8217;d be better off opening your own website called ***8216;x3ATsuks.com***8217; or something. If that***8217;s too much of work for you, then create a personal blog somewhere at least. They are mostly free and easy to create. If it gets popular, BMW NA will take a serious look and an active interest in your web/blog for sure.

One more thing you may have forgotten, when people start looking into their next ride, they do their own research and they are mostly smarter than you think.

Enough is enough.

Evlengr
01-31-2008, 07:14 AM
Fair enough--I'll stick to the tranny threads. And Good Idea on the blog site..

Andrew*Debbie
01-31-2008, 07:30 AM
unlike X5 is assembled here at GM garage???




The X5 is built at a BMW plant in South Carolina. Quality and workmanship at that factory are top notch. The Z4 and the X6 are also built there. The American built Z4 is the most reliable BMW sold in the US.

X3 production will be moving to Spartanburg County with the next model.


GM? What does GM have to do with the plant?

http://www.bmwusfactory.com/
http://www.bmwusfactory.com/media_center/releases/release.asp?intReleaseNum=246&strYear=2007

bmwadam
01-31-2008, 08:43 AM
The X3 still has a temp gauge! (Annoyingly however, the warning chime when you start the car is louder in the facelifted models........).

I also like how it still has a wheel to infinitely adjust the gauge cluster brightness to get it just right. In the E90 (and Civic we used to have), it's just a step-by-step kinda thing that I don't like so much. And the "cold airflow" dial on top of the vents actually works fairly precisely. The one in the E90 just goes left and right, and as far as I can tell, makes absolutely no difference in the cool air coming in.

I know the current X3 still has a temp gauge (sorry my post was confusing), my wife has an 04 3.0. BUT I fear that the 2nd gen will go the way of the e90's. The temp gauge tells you ALOT about how your car is running! If they really wanted to take something out, they can kill the MPG gauge. But for godssake LEAVE THE TEMP GUAGE!

BruceOmega
01-31-2008, 08:49 AM
The RDX is boring. The Infiniti EX35 on the other hand, its a good looking ride. I would say that Infiniti is the closest to beating BMW in these market segments at present. That is not to say that they have converted me, but who knows? I also like a dipstick and a temp gauge in my car. BMW dosnt think I need that anymore. Infinti still has them....

FWIW,

We looked at and sat in the EX-35 at the DC Auto Show last weekend. We were curious to see how it compared to my wife's X3.

I think the EX-35 looks good, both inside and out. It's not as tall as the X3. Seating in the front is fine, except it's a bit narrow like I find the G35 to be. But the rear seat is really cramped and the rear storage area is very small. Overheard other show-goers comment on the lack of room. I came away thinking of the EX-35 as more of a 2 + 2 AWD wagon than an SAV.

Bruce

bmwadam
01-31-2008, 02:14 PM
There is that other Infinti as well...the FX I think? I have not seen one of those in person yet, but the pictures look good. My point is I think it is way ahead of the Acura or even the Rav4. I love my wife's X3, and we are planning on keeping it for awhile.

But I do think that either the EX or FX is something to consider for those that want out of an X3. I cant really see anything else that comes close to beating it right now in that particular class....

zznalg
01-31-2008, 03:34 PM
There is that other Infinti as well...the FX I think? I have not seen one of those in person yet, but the pictures look good. My point is I think it is way ahead of the Acura or even the Rav4. I love my wife's X3, and we are planning on keeping it for awhile.

But I do think that either the EX or FX is something to consider for those that want out of an X3. I cant really see anything else that comes close to beating it right now in that particular class....

Except that no manuals are offered in the Infinity SUVs.

UncleJ
02-01-2008, 09:26 AM
FYI, the Porsche Cayenne base V6 comes with a six speed manual and is not all that much more than a well equipped FX, or X3. The new Cayenne V6 has been upgraded to 290 hp and is no longer the slug it used to be. No slouch in the handling department either. Worth a look if you are in that market anyway IHMO.

Evlengr
02-09-2008, 12:47 PM
Just back from driving several different vehicles to replace my 07 X3.

What Turbo Lag is all I have to say concerning the RDX.

If my X3 shifted nearly as smooth as the RDX and transitioned in speed that well I wouldn't be on this board with tranny problems but asking about dinan chips.

As far as the overly techy panel. If you don't get one with a tech package there are no more controls and far easier to manage than the x3.

This is defintely a viable alternative to those who are searching to replace the X3.

It's only short coming at this point would be the moon roof with respect to the X3's panaramic one.

The RAV4 although a nice entry sport-type suv is just that -------- entry level. If I were starting out with a tighter budget I would go there.

STE92VE
02-09-2008, 01:09 PM
We drove a few vehicles yesterday as well. We looked at the RDX and would need to make an appointment to do a test drive. Still not sold on long term reliability with turbos, but will test drive one in the near future anyway.

Test drove the new Infiniti EX35...looks bigger on the TV. Infiniti does make powerful engines and puts great Bose sound systems in their vehicles (had an I30 once). Other than that, I found the A pillar blocked a good portion of your forward visibility, the front seating presented a claustrophobic environment the way it wraps around you. If technology & gimmicks turn you on, this car is for you. Buttons to raise and lower the rear seats, back-up camera, Infiniti's version of CA...etc.

Test drove a Land Rover LR2. I knew nothing about the vehicle before I went into the dealership. On first blush, I liked the whole package. Even though it has 230hp, pulls very strong. Ride quality is good, eats up the dips and rough road surfaces. Pricing is competitive but it's too trucky for my wife, and this next vehicle is for her and I'm not looking for any arguments (you married guys know what I mean).

As you can see, there are many alternatives out there and picking the right one for you might not be easy. Best bet is to test drive everything that you're considering and be happy with whatever you decide.

dashiell
02-09-2008, 01:12 PM
Evl, I wanted to like the RDX and I know a lot of people do. I had an Integra back in the day and it wasn't in the shop EVER! So if you are looking for reliability you can't beat Acura... but after test driving it 3 times, I have to say that it does have a bit of lag at times and if you accelerate hard through a corner the torque steer is a bit unsettling. I guess coming from a rear biased SUV(X5) it's handling seemed a bit squirrelly. My .02. BTW, when people talk about the price difference, it only applies if you are buying, they
(X3, RDX) lease out almost exactly the same.

dashiell
02-09-2008, 01:16 PM
Steve,+1. I Drove the LR2, if you are going off-roading, you will not beat this thing but in the city, very "trucky". Also, if you don't like spending a lot of quality time with your SA, do not buy a Range rover.

dashiell
02-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Correction, Land Rover(Ford).

Evlengr
02-09-2008, 01:28 PM
Guys, I dont want to make the same mistake I made with this vehicle. I have arranged to take the vehicle for the weekend next week.

I always buy my vehicles but never hold them longer than 4 years so I feel comfortable given what I have heard about Acura's service history concerning the turbo.

Land Rover seems to have a checkered service past that is worse than what I have seen with BMW.

The more I look into BMW's service history with all their vehicles the less comfortable I feel about replacing my X3 with another one.

Plus at only 32k this is vehicle is very competitive to the X3. Base is 30,505 and MSRP 33,900.

I added roof rack and some other options.

As you put it with the Acura. I want to love the BMW but they make it really hard to get into that spirit when you you deal with problems on a monthly basis.

Mitch3672
02-09-2008, 02:05 PM
Guys, I dont want to make the same mistake I made with this vehicle. I have arranged to take the vehicle for the weekend next week.

I always buy my vehicles but never hold them longer than 4 years so I feel comfortable given what I have heard about Acura's service history concerning the turbo.

Land Rover seems to have a checkered service past that is worse than what I have seen with BMW.

The more I look into BMW's service history with all their vehicles the less comfortable I feel about replacing my X3 with another one.

Plus at only 32k this is vehicle is very competitive to the X3. Base is 30,505 and MSRP 33,900.

I added roof rack and some other options.

As you put it with the Acura. I want to love the BMW but they make it really hard to get into that spirit when you you deal with problems on a monthly basis.

I hear you. If anyone can really cross-shop a Japanese car to a German car than really go with the Honda all things be unequal.:dunno:

I do not say this out or disrespect in any way. It's just that if Bimmers or German cars do not talk to you than what is the point of spending the money on them because they are indeed expensive, more finnicky than economy cars the Japanese wrap up in high content paper.

Zoltar
02-09-2008, 02:16 PM
Evl, let us know how your weekend with the RDX goes. It will be interesting.
I'm sure you will let us know your true feelings. :)
Be careful of the turbo lag, I have read many complaints about unpredictable power delivery. Sounds like what you are trying to get away from.
ZZNALG dumped an RDX for an X3 over this issue.
As far as Acura goes, my wife is on her second one in 12 years with ZERO issues. The darn things are indestructible. At least in her case.
I have never been a Japanese car fan, but seeing her experience with Acura has definitely earned my respect.
However, this is Acura's first turbo, so there isn't much history there.
It is too bad they don't put the 6 from the TL in the RDX as that would be something.

AzNMpower32
02-09-2008, 02:56 PM
The RDX isn't even that Japanese. It's built in Ohio.

Evlengr
02-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Mitch none taken and Zoltar good point on the six. Yes I am very leary of turbos as they tend to overheat and torque metals out of tolerance.

The funny thing is German cars have been a main staple of our family and extended family. I was born in Zurich and lived in Austria part of my life. However the car of choice was/is Mercedes. They are built like tanks and drive like them to IMO I have had several VW's in my family( a GTI and 2 Jetta's) and loved the road feel they exhibit so I thought BMW would be a nice morph of the three qualities I like:. German engineering, innovation, and work ethic equals great car. Nope!

The BMW has managed to capture one out of three. Road feel. Not good for $40K+

So what's left? Enter the Japanese. To take another BMW I would need an "Escape Clause" As I don't want to go through what KJBoyd just dealt with: two bad BMW's in a row.

I admire his patience on that. Me, I am at the end of mine. I am letting others sort this mess out at this point..wink wink nudge nudge say no more, Lol.

Well BMW wont be Germanic soon either and wasn't when I bought it (Austrian). I think BMW has lost it's way with this one and needs to get back on track.

STE92VE
02-09-2008, 03:09 PM
It is too bad they don't put the 6 from the TL in the RDX as that would be something.
+1.... If they did that, I'm sure MDX sales would take a hit.
The RDX isn't even that Japanese. It's built in Ohio.
..and an American made transmission too. I'm not knocking Acura. I've been a Honda/Acura customer for over 20 years. They are not perfect. My wife's TL (built in OHIO) had a recall on the tranny and it's just not holding up as well as the older models. Everyone has their preferences when they make a decision on a car purchase. Mine happens to be handling and very few can compete with BMW.

AzNMpower32
02-09-2008, 03:21 PM
My wife's TL (built in Japan) had a recall on the tranny and it's just not holding up as well as the older models. Everyone has their preferences when they make a decision on a car purchase. Mine happens to be handling and very few can compete with BMW.
Rubbish, I highly doubt the TL is made in Japan because it isn't even sold there. It's always been based off the Accord, which is also an American model. Japan gets their own Accord, which is our TSX.

Yea, lots of folks were affected by the transmission recall in the TLs. I have 3 friends that went thru the same experience with their '00-'03 TLs.

Zoltar
02-09-2008, 03:29 PM
The RDX isn't even that Japanese. It's built in Ohio.

I'm sure it is a Japanese design though.

The X3 isn't made in Germany, but it is a German design.

My wife currently has an RSX which was made in Japan.

STE92VE
02-09-2008, 03:35 PM
Rubbish, I highly doubt the TL is made in Japan because it isn't even sold there. It's always been based off the Accord, which is also an American model. Japan gets their own Accord, which is our TSX.

Yea, lots of folks were affected by the transmission recall in the TLs. I have 3 friends that went thru the same experience with their '00-'03 TLs.

My apologies, you are correct....just pulled out the monroney sticker.:doh:

Now I'm really po'd:
US parts content 75%
Japan 15%
Final assembly: OHIO
Engine: USA
Transmission: Japan

STE92VE
02-09-2008, 03:37 PM
My wife currently has an RSX which was made in Japan.

My son's as well...I must have been confused...:D

AzNMpower32
02-09-2008, 04:13 PM
The RSX and TSX are made in Japan (well, the RSX isn't sold anymore here) because it was a world car that was sold in many places as the Honda Integra and Accord, respectively. The TL was never sold in Europe, and only recently started to be imported to Asia. Something as big as the TL wouldn't really work in the tiny alleys of Italy, and the handling/chassis definitely isn't European.

Evlengr
02-09-2008, 05:46 PM
AzM I admire your in depth knowledge of BMW as well as your loyalty. Loyalty in my case must be earned.

BMW is in a deficit with me at this point. And like any deficit, it takes more to get out of debt than to get in to it.

That being said, I don't care where the car is built. The design and soul of each car is in its origin.

In my opinion BMW has lost sight of what made them great with this vehicle and it will take more than a leap of faith at $40k to get it back.

After doing a search on the NHTSA site for complaint issues and others on the 07 RDX and the 07 X3 the RDX has 3--- the X3 12.

There seems to be a consistent ratio of complaints that I have seen on this and other BMW sites. Which is 1 in 4 X3 owners have a major fault with the 07/08 X3.

BTW there were no complaints concerning the turbo and all 12 complaints on the x3 were transmission related.

Im not saying I am going to buy am Acura only that I did not experience the "Turbo Lag" that it is famous for, and there are no complaints regarding its mechanics on any of the major sites.

I always have a plan "B" when I tackle a problem and if the X3 doesn't work I need a replacement. Next weekend the Murano 2009 prior to the RDX long term test.

dashiell
02-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Evl, You have yet to give any in depth criticism of the latest transmission "fix". I assume you got some relief or you would be tearing the BMW uber mechanic apart(deservedly so), but not complete satisfaction or you wouldn't be car shopping.

Evlengr
02-09-2008, 08:55 PM
Dash, the latest car fix isnt. So all I would be doing is bringing up the same story. I figured people would be bored hearing the same old same.

The only improvement is that it works 95% of the time when the temperature is over 32 degrees and doesnt work well 95% under 32 degrees.

Be it as it may I can't drive a car wondering whether it will work or not when I step on the gas. So I am taking steps to work that out.

When I was in college I had real junker that I bought for $600. It worked like crap 100% of the time, so there was no hidden surprises. I knew exactly what it's limitations and abilities were. This thing is a crap shoot. You never know what to expect.

Rather than PnM I figure for those that are running into the same issues I would share my research for alternatives to the X3.

Evlengr
02-10-2008, 06:48 AM
Ok Mitch I'll explain. I was willing to adapt my driving style when I knew the car was incapable of performing. At $40k plus I should not have to wonder if the car will or won't accelerate when needed. Now if you have a way of helping me lose the X3 please contact BMWNA.

There are a lot of people out there having problems with their X3's.

BMWNA is doing very little if anything to help them other than tell them that is the way the
vehicle is---baloney.

It has now been a year since I have owned this vehicle and it has never perfomed correctly.

It now has water leaking in the passenger area and the stiching coming apart on the front passenger side which no one sits in anymore.

My comments are based directly on how this thing behaves.

Any of those vehicles if they work are competitors since mine never has worked right (and they might) and its seems a much larger majority has the same problem but may be afraid to speak their mind since they made a large financial mistake or will be brow beaten by the likes of you.

Look at it this way. If there are alternatives then you can go back to your happy land and stick your fingers in your ears and we can go to vehicles that won't stall out in intersections, or hesistate when merging into moving traffic.

In the meantime if you don't like what I write. Don't read it. I will be adding you to the ignore list. You can add me.

UncleJ
02-10-2008, 10:34 AM
Evl, after the RDX test you might want to stop by the Porsche store and look at the base V6 Cayenne. A ton of stuff comes standard, and yes you can option it up to "S" territory but you don't have to to get a great ride. They list at $43K and can be had for less. Not too far from X3 prices if you get many options. The old V6 was a slug but the new 290 hp V6 is vastly improved and IMHO equals or betters the X3 performance, and you have a Porsche not an Acura or Nissan (if that sort of thing is important, and in my experience around the beltway it all too often is). OTH A friend with a brand new RDX tells me they have improved the response and the turbo lag is no longer much of an issue. I have to take his word for it as he has driven both the early and new RDXs and I have not. Good luck and I have enjoyed your posts.

Mitch3672
02-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Evl, after the RDX test you might want to stop by the Porsche store and look at the base V6 Cayenne. A ton of stuff comes standard, and yes you can option it up to "S" territory but you don't have to to get a great ride. They list at $43K and can be had for less. Not too far from X3 prices if you get many options. The old V6 was a slug but the new 290 hp V6 is vastly improved and IMHO equals or betters the X3 performance, and you have a Porsche not an Acura or Nissan (if that sort of thing is important, and in my experience around the beltway it all too often is). OTH A friend with a brand new RDX tells me they have improved the response and the turbo lag is no longer much of an issue. I have to take his word for it as he has driven both the early and new RDXs and I have not. Good luck and I have enjoyed your posts.

I have frequently mentioned the 07 and beyond Cayenne V6 as a great choice, but when optioned it is a step-up in price by a good chunk. Also, even though we are talking premium cars, the Cayenne V6 also will suck more fuel than an X3. So, the price and fuel economy are both a level up to consider. But not too far.

My current favorite is actually the new Cayenne GTS just released. The front grill is nicer too.