Which year of E36?

[Cactus Bimmer]

So the wife and I are both after our first BMW, and everyone we've talked with, pointed us in the direction of the E36. Then they laugh at OBDII.

I recall seeing an article sayng that OBDI ran thru the 95 model year. Any thought on that and others regarding our first Bimmer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...Dave

[E36 Phantom]

Well, it sounds like you still aren't sure quite what you want. Are you looking for a small, light car you can toss around? Something bulletproof? Coupe or sedan? What kind of budget? Why do people say go for the E36?
Be sure you have decided exactly the kind of car you're looking for before you settle on a particular chassis. Keep in mind that these cars are in the 10+ year old range, and WILL need maintenance. Bimmers are NOT reliable. They are fun to drive, and if you can pay to play, they'll last forever. The engine and manual transmission are about the only things that will run forever on these cars, and that's only if they are properly cared for (regular oil changes, fluid changes, etc). Pretty much everything else (numerous poorly made suspension components, the entire cooling system, and pretty much every other peripheral system on the car) will have to be replaced at some time or another. And, parts and labor on BMW's are not cheap, as I'm sure you may have guessed.

Now, assuming the E36 is indeed the car for you, here are some of the things to know:
-Auto transmission is made by GM. It is decent in terms of shifting quality. But, it is built in America by an American company - expect it to last about 1/4 as long as it should....auto tranny's are usually the first MAJOR things to go on E36's. Manuals will last absolutely forever.
-Cooling system: If you are getting a car with 90k or less, you will be replacing the water pump, thermostat, radiator, fan clutch, and hoses in a few thousand miles. That's just life. They all fail at about 100k, give or take a few thousand. Personally, you'll be best off looking for a car with all the service records thats just a bit over 100k, maybe 115k or more. If its had the cooling system done, good for you. Trouble free for a while.
-OBDI v OBDII: Why would they say stay away from OBDII? Makes no sense.... In fact, the OBDII cars will have a much nicer feel to them, because they have a small but noticeable amount more torque. Also, they'll be newer. Your sources are correct, OBDI ran through the 1995 MY. 1996 brought the 328i and OBDII. The benefit to OBDI is you can check and reset your fault codes with no tools. OBDII you must buy a cheap code reader or go to Autozone and have them do it. Really, I don't see how OBDI/II would be a dealbreaker.

So, that's enough to get you started. Check out the "Funny but true" sticky in the forum, it will give you a good idea of the things you can look forward to. These are fun cars, but there is definitely a price of admission ;)

Good luck with your car search, and welcome to the 'Fest!

[Greeno-Deano]

+1:thumbup:

To Phantom's post, If you look after it a BMW will keep going forever but they do need to be looked after.. Nothing major, you just need to keep ontop of the fluid levels and change them regurally. I would say they are a great car to learn how to do this stuff yourself. I regurally serviced my 316 Compact (oil,coolant, etc) and you can save ALLOT of money that way too. With a bit of tweaking you can end up with a car that handles better then any of those under steering squeal-mobiles out there (front wheel drive cars ;) ) and as far as the E36 is concerned really doesn't look that dated compared to allot of cars from the 90s. As can be seen here:

http://www.guaranteed-car-finance.co.uk/uploads/SIERRA%20PX.jpg
http://www.guaranteed-car-finance.co.uk/uploads/MONDEO%202.0%20PX.jpg

Only problem I have found is that owning a BMW can turn you into a BMW driver.. EG: wondering why everybody is driving around so slowly;).

[johnf]

I recall seeing an article sayng that OBDI ran thru the 95 model year. Any thought on that and others regarding our first Bimmer would be greatly appreciated.

Try to get an E36 built in Fall 1993 or later. It took BMW that long to find and cure the model's engineering mistakes, a.k.a. Kinderkrankheiten or childhood diseases.

[B/\/\W]

You have an '07 Mustang, but want to buy an old E36? What's wrong with you!

[PatrickG328]

You have an '07 Mustang, but want to buy an old E36? What's wrong with you!

The car just previous to my bimmer was a Mustang. I can't blame him.

Lets see:

Solid, ancient rear axel.
Jarring, clunky and faded feel
Undersized brakes
Starsky and Hutch steering and road feel through the wheel
Resale value :(
Cheap..80's Fiesta type plastic.
23mpg on the highway
Feeling of doom @ upper end of speed range
No leather, no heated seats, no sunroof, sluggish corporate engine
Nose heavy and unbalanced.

My driving doesn't consist of a series of 1/4 mile sprints..there's actually some twisties thrown in there.

Now...a '67 Shelby GT-500..there's a Mustang I could live with...after I win the lottery:D

[nue36r]

well put!

[B/\/\W]

The car just previous to my bimmer was a Mustang. I can't blame him.

Lets see:

Solid, ancient rear axel.
Jarring, clunky and faded feel
Undersized brakes
Starsky and Hutch steering and road feel through the wheel
Resale value :(
Cheap..80's Fiesta type plastic.
23mpg on the highway
Feeling of doom @ upper end of speed range
No leather, no heated seats, no sunroof, sluggish corporate engine
Nose heavy and unbalanced.

My driving doesn't consist of a series of 1/4 mile sprints..there's actually some twisties thrown in there.

Now...a '67 Shelby GT-500..there's a Mustang I could live with...after I win the lottery:D

No, the point I was making is, a '07 Mustang must be expensive, so why would you go and buy a cheap and oudated bimmer when there are faster, more comfortable, safer and better handling BMWs around now?

I understand that part about most American cars being total trash

Feeling of doom at upper end of speed range! That's hilarious :D

[Cactus Bimmer]

Thanks for the responses. To answer some of the comments:

-I'm not looking to replace the Mustang. Wife has an 04 Accord and she's loving it. We're looking at adding a 3rd vehicle to the mix for weekend blasting around.

-As for why the E36? It constantly gets great write ups from performance enthusiast owners and from Motorsports Magazines, it won't drain the bank account to get one, and there are a ton of aftermarket parts, mods and upgrades out there for them. Every car I've owned in the past 15 years have been tweaked in one way or another with a CAI, cat-back, brakes and suspension upgrades. Did I mention that I have the mechanical know how to do these mods on my own?

-Since we live in Phoenix, (read; little to no rain), we're leaning towards a convertible.

-Yeah, I know a 12 year old car will have its issues, I know that going in. The goal is to avoid buying the one where the engine blows two months after buying it.

-I want to find an E36 that I can add a CAI, Cat-back, brakes and Bilstein's to, and address the commonly known weak points (coolong system).

So, now that you know this; flame away.

[PJBIMMER]

Look for a 328i, they take very well to mods.

[whosyadadie01]

328i or a m3 ... my 328i has served me well (altough im still fixing everything)

[bmwadam]

328 covert would be fun... Whats up with dogging on the 328i reliability? It has been one of the most reliable bimmers I have owned!!! Ive owned it for a year now, over 15k miles put on it, and I have had NOTHING major go wrong with it.

As for suspension, heck if its driven right it can last over 120k! Thats long enough in my book. My car is still running on the original suspension and it is tight as they come at 150k! It really depends on how it was driven. Try to find a 10 + year old Jap or American car that drives like mine...You will be hard pressed. Every 10 year old Honda I have driven drives like rubbish. Of course the engine is still grinding away, but the suspension feels terrible.

Of course bimmers normally do not take well to the abuse that a normal 10 yr old accord or camry driver is dishing out...

[B/\/\W]

Thanks for the responses. To answer some of the comments:

-I'm not looking to replace the Mustang. Wife has an 04 Accord and she's loving it. We're looking at adding a 3rd vehicle to the mix for weekend blasting around.

-As for why the E36? It constantly gets great write ups from performance enthusiast owners and from Motorsports Magazines, it won't drain the bank account to get one, and there are a ton of aftermarket parts, mods and upgrades out there for them. Every car I've owned in the past 15 years have been tweaked in one way or another with a CAI, cat-back, brakes and suspension upgrades. Did I mention that I have the mechanical know how to do these mods on my own?

-Since we live in Phoenix, (read; little to no rain), we're leaning towards a convertible.

-Yeah, I know a 12 year old car will have its issues, I know that going in. The goal is to avoid buying the one where the engine blows two months after buying it.

-I want to find an E36 that I can add a CAI, Cat-back, brakes and Bilstein's to, and address the commonly known weak points (coolong system).

So, now that you know this; flame away.

Sounds great in that respect then, you've got it all figured out. Like the others said, you would probably want a 328 convertible. The only problem is that the cylinders are nikasil coated, so if someone used cheap high sulphur fuel it could have degraded that. I think the whole range of M52 engines were nikasil though, generally they seem okay from what people say, or don't say!

[johnf]

Sounds great in that respect then, you've got it all figured out. Like the others said, you would probably want a 328 convertible. The only problem is that the cylinders are nikasil coated, so if someone used cheap high sulphur fuel it could have degraded that. I think the whole range of M52 engines were nikasil though, generally they seem okay from what people say, or don't say!I thought the U.S. didn't get Nikasil-coated M52s for this very reason. U.S. crude oil can have a lot of sulfur, and for a long time the American refiners didn't try to remove it.

[PatrickG328]

They didn't. The US spec M52's had standard iron blocks. No corrosion problems.

[B/\/\W]

Ahh! Just shows how unrefined American petrol was at one time if they had cast iron engine blocks. I wonder if the increase in weight was significant with the iron block.

[CJH]

-Auto transmission is made by GM. It is decent in terms of shifting quality. But, it is built in America by an American company - expect it to last about 1/4 as long as it should....auto tranny's are usually the first MAJOR things to go on E36's. Manuals will last absolutely forever.


Wrong, built by European subsidary of GM:
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/4L30E.pdf

FWIW: Former 328is auto still going strong with new owner @ 250K. German built ZF trans in Range Rover, 180K no problems, ZF in my Audi crapped out at 60K. All well cared for.

Manuals can last a very long time if cared for. Not beaten, hard shifted, fluid changed. More communication when they're wearing out, noises, difficult shifting etc. Autos typically fail a bit more abruptly. More rewarding in a sports car no doubt.

[E36 Phantom]

Wrong, built by European subsidary of GM:
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/4L30E.pdf

FWIW: Former 328is auto still going strong with new owner @ 250K. German built ZF trans in Range Rover, 180K no problems, ZF in my Audi crapped out at 60K. All well cared for.

Manuals can last a very long time if cared for. Not beaten, hard shifted, fluid changed. More communication when they're wearing out, noises, difficult shifting etc. Autos typically fail a bit more abruptly. More rewarding in a sports car no doubt.

:rolleyes:

Its a GM Hydramatic. The same crap American GM cars get. I could be wrong on manufacture location, but it is definitely a GM transmission, designed by GM.

[CJH]

Not quite, it is a GM powertrain product, but never used in US vehicles. Honda, Isuzu, BMW, & Opel used it in a variety of cars, SUVs & light to medium duty trucks.

While I'm no fan of GM products, never owned one of their cars/trucks, never will, they do know how to make automatic transmssions. Found under quite a few premium cars: Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Volvo, Jaguar, BMW, Acura, Humvee and of course the Chevrolet Chevette.

Global sourcing is a tangled web. Getrag, maker of many BMW manuals also makes GM's manuals & GM makes some of Getrag's transverse boxes.

Honda/Acura historically the most reliable cars made, got a kick in the teeth with a series of recalls & class action lawsuits over their V6 trans. Can't make blanket statements these days.

[E36 Phantom]

Thanks for the responses. To answer some of the comments:

-I'm not looking to replace the Mustang. Wife has an 04 Accord and she's loving it. We're looking at adding a 3rd vehicle to the mix for weekend blasting around.

-As for why the E36? It constantly gets great write ups from performance enthusiast owners and from Motorsports Magazines, it won't drain the bank account to get one, and there are a ton of aftermarket parts, mods and upgrades out there for them. Every car I've owned in the past 15 years have been tweaked in one way or another with a CAI, cat-back, brakes and suspension upgrades. Did I mention that I have the mechanical know how to do these mods on my own?

-Since we live in Phoenix, (read; little to no rain), we're leaning towards a convertible.

-Yeah, I know a 12 year old car will have its issues, I know that going in. The goal is to avoid buying the one where the engine blows two months after buying it.

-I want to find an E36 that I can add a CAI, Cat-back, brakes and Bilstein's to, and address the commonly known weak points (coolong system).

So, now that you know this; flame away.
Excellent, sounds like you know what you want and found the right car for it. A caveat about convertibles: that will be the most expensive way to, both in terms of purchase price and repairs. Convertibles regularly go for double the price of an E36 of the same year, engine, and mileage. Also, I have seen ONE convertible (I was looking for one for a long time too) that didn't have a BIG problem with the top that wasn't significantly over KBB. And, being in such a hot dry climate, the rubber seals may be on their last legs (BMW fails at making rubber seals).

Definitely go for one of the 6 cylinders. 4 cylinders are quite a bit underpowered, and have much less aftermarket support for the engine.

Anyway, sounds like you have done your research and know what you want. Check the Sticky in this forum that says "Things about our cars: Funny but true" {or something similar} and you will learn many of the faults of these cars. They are common, ie, pretty much all E36's will have them happen at one point or another.

CJH, A rose by any other name is still a rose. It is manufactured to spec, but is still a GM transmission. Some people have good luck with them, a lot don't. Just my 2 cents.