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View Full Version : Lease coming to an end - Go with anoter x3?


Rob V
02-04-2008, 03:46 PM
My current 2005 X3 is on it's last 6 months of the lease and it's been a fantastic ride. It's without question the best vehicle I've ever owned/driven and I'm dreading having to give it up. The thing is I picked up the X3 when they had some pretty nice lease rates and it got me a manageable payment but that doesn't appear to be the case now. From the looks of it now I see ads stating "Lease Plans as low as $449/mo". As low as? That's what I pay now and I have some upgrades (3.0, Cold Weather, Xenon, etc). Are the rates that bad now? I really don't want to pay any more than I'm paying now and I'm considering a 328xi because I still want to keep the AWD. So here are some questions:

What can I expect to pay on a 36-39mo lease 15k miles w/$3k down and some minor upgrades?

Also, is the "xi" in the 3 Series the same as the X-Drive in the X3?

Another random question, I was told last week by the dealership that my tires are at their wear bars and need to be replaced. They wanted to charge me $800+. Do I NEED to change the tires before giving the car back? Or...do you even give the car back at all or sell it 3rd party?

Thanks for your help everyone. I was a fairly frequent poster when I first got the X3 and have been lurking ever since.

Mystic1
02-04-2008, 04:06 PM
I was just quoted a 36 month lease with 12K/yr for an X3 with premium and sport pkgs for just a tad over $600/month incl taxes with around $3000 up front. That is $75 more a month than 3 yrs ago for my 3.0i sport pkg, leather, sunroof, aero kit, heated seats. I ended up buying our '05 off lease.

If your tires are in need of replacing, you must replace them or they will charge you for them after turn-in.

archrenov8
02-04-2008, 04:30 PM
I was quoted around $665 for a 36 month lease with no cap cost reduction, and 8-5/8% sales taxes rolled in for a premium package, heated front seats, xenon, nav, heated steering, HD radio, premium audio, park distance, privacy glass, metallic paint, Servotronic.

Sounds like you should keep shopping.

And typically, you need to have tires with a certain amount of tread depth remaining- check your lease. You will probably do better to replace the tires yourself.

I would not recommend buying it at the lease end to flip it- this can be risky.

Andrew*Debbie
02-04-2008, 04:30 PM
What can I expect to pay on a 36-39mo lease 15k miles w/$3k down and some minor upgrades?



You should read up on leases in the ask a dealer forum before negotiating your next lease.

I have a few additions to what is in the sticky over there.

BMW subvents the 24 and 36 month X3 leases. 39 may be a far worse deal than 36. 39months at 15,000 is 48,750 miles. If you go over a bit, you could end up turning in a car with no warranty. You don't want to be off warranty at lease turn in.


Ask your dealer if there is an owner loyalty program running right now. If there is you can get a significant discount.

Every lease is different. Asking what people are paying may not mean much because the lease programs can change every month.

We have a 2007 X3 with park distance control as the only option. 24 month lease, 12,000 miles a year. Munich pick up.

Our drive off was under $1000. Payments are $370 month.


Also, is the "xi" in the 3 Series the same as the X-Drive in the X3?


The x-drive in the 3 series is similar but not identical. Magna builds the Automatic Transfer case for both cars.



Another random question,


You should have a lease end kit from BMW FS. Read it carefully.

You either need to have 5 good tires at turn in or you will be charged for them. As I recall the fee charged by BMW FS for tires is less than your dealer is asking.

You have the option of buying the car for the residual value instead of turning it in. After that you can do whatever you want with it. Most of the time the car won't be worth residual.


Here is an excel spread sheet you can use to figure what the payments should be.
It doesn't need the Macro to work. Just leave macros off

http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~afisch2/BMW/X3WorkSheet2008ForFest.xls

Eric in SD
02-04-2008, 05:43 PM
Rob V.,

I went through the same thing about a month ago. We have an '05 X3 and the lease is up in March. We also loved this little SAV and got a great deal on the lease. I compared buying the X3 off lease versus leasing a new X3. Bottom line is the current lease deal for repeat customers to lease again is so good, that we couldn't pass it up. We were able to order a vehicle of our choice for $500 over invoice, MF of .00225, 68% residual, and $825 acquisition fee (36 months, 10K miles per year). And the payments are a little less than what we have now. For returning customers BMWFS waives the disposition fee on the '05 ($350) and also will waive the deposit on the new '08. Plus BMWCCA (you did join, didn't you?) gives you a $500 rebate.

We put a set of Pirelli PZero Nero's on last summer for around $500. I would suggest you do the same.

I have sold a car off lease but it is a pain and I don't recommend it unless you have more time than money..

Hope this helps,

Mitch3672
02-04-2008, 09:57 PM
Man, you are an awesome photographer. Everyone should take a moment and look at this guys work.

Rob V
02-05-2008, 01:53 PM
Man, you are an awesome photographer. Everyone should take a moment and look at this guys work.

Why thank you, Mitch! :thumbup: I really apprecaite it.

So it looks like that I can't get around the tires being worn out. No big deal I can get a new set. I just sucks to buy tires 5 months before giving the car up. It also looks like there isn't much I can do to get the payments where I want them but I'll see what the dealer tells me. He did tell me at one point that BMW doesn't have any type of Layalty Program because those are for car manufacturers who need to persuade people into staying with them and BMW doesn't need to do that. Whatever! He made no mention of a BMWFS Loyalty program. Interesting...

Anyway, what is BMWCCA? I've never heard of that and is it too late to join? Have I screwed up by not joining already?

Mitch3672
02-05-2008, 02:14 PM
There should be a loyalty discount at least a half point for the interest rate, plus given you are coming back for another there should be a deal on the table.

I am on my 2nd X3. I decided to purchase this time around as I plan on keeping it for 5-7 years. I was offered all kinds of discounts and low interest rate deals if I leased but ended up getting a great deal for purchasing cash outright which is the best way to pay the least. Also part of the reason I got a deal is because (like yourself) I have been a loyal customer (almost 10 years) and they do not want to lose my business to another dealer. (BMW or otherwise).

I would shop your lease return. ie: Go see if you can work the return at another dealer that will work you a deal on a new one.

Or, if your vehicle has been great, why not buy it out and keep it for another few years?

Andrew*Debbie
02-05-2008, 02:17 PM
I just sucks to buy tires 5 months before giving the car up.



Yes. On the other hand you aren't going to make it 5 more months if you are already on the wear bars. We try and time our leases so we don't have to buy tires near the end of the lease. We didn't quite make it on the 325i. I had to buy two tires a month before the lease was up.




He did tell me at one point that BMW doesn't have any type of Layalty Program because those are for car manufacturers who need to persuade people into staying with them and BMW doesn't need to do that.


Time to find a new dealer. Ask what the current X3 OLP in the Ask a Dealer forum.
When you get closer to ordering, Try sending a Private Message to one the forum sponsor dealers.



Anyway, what is BMWCCA? I've never heard of that and is it too late to join? Have I screwed up by not joining already?


BMW Car Club of America. It is never to late to join, but you did screw up. You are too late to get the $500 rebate on your next BMW.

A.

Rob V
02-05-2008, 02:48 PM
...but you did screw up. You are too late to get the $500 rebate on your next BMW.

A.

Ouch! That hurt! :(

Johnny Lee
02-05-2008, 02:53 PM
Hi,
I'm in a similar situation, my lease with the fully loaded x3 3.0 05 is up in march and 18 inches tires are all worn out. I went on ebay search for the same tires only cause me 90 dollars for each tire including shipping (they were have 85-90% threads). I went to a good tires fix shop did the balance and anything but the sensor was on then I went to life quality bmw for oil change ask them to do rotation and balance the air pressure just in case. Follow what I did to save a lot of $$$$$. And don't keep the car! I believe that BMWF already sent you a "turn in kit" right? If you choose to return the car and get a new one would a void the deposition fee so do that. Right now there is a loyolty rate for the x3 you should check that out (I went to the dealership in dece 07 quote a fully loaded x3 around MRSP 48,000 with nothing down with just taxes and bank fees for 535 a month.

Anyway
good luck
Johnny Lee

Eric in SD
02-05-2008, 04:39 PM
Current OLP (Owners Loyalty Program) on X3 is:


Waive the disposition fee ($350) on the vehicle you are turning in
Discount the MF by 0.00065
Waive the deposit on the new vehicle


It pays to do your homework before talking to a sales person or they may take advantage of you without you even knowing it. The "ask a dealer" forum on this board is very helpful. There is a great lease calculator in that forum that is a big help.

And I recommend you join the BMWCCA. For $40 per year you get a great magazine subscription (Roundel), discounts at most dealers, DE and autocross events through your local chapter and rebates on new vehicle purchases after only one year of membership.

bmwadam
02-05-2008, 04:51 PM
I reccomend that you keep your car. Try and work out a deal when it comes off lease. I think thye have some really great rates right now. The reason I say this is because of all of these auto tranny problems on the 08. You would be running a risk of developing this problem, AND if you love your car so much, why get rid of it? You could put new tires on, get it CPO'ed, and drive it another 2 to 3 years, then sell it. By that time the tranny issues should be resolved (Surely!) and you will be on the second gen X3.

NetSpySD
02-05-2008, 04:57 PM
I reccomend that you keep your car. Try and work out a deal when it comes off lease. I think thye have some really great rates right now. The reason I say this is because of all of these auto tranny problems on the 08. You would be running a risk of developing this problem, AND if you love your car so much, why get rid of it? You could put new tires on, get it CPO'ed, and drive it another 2 to 3 years, then sell it. By that time the tranny issues should be resolved (Surely!) and you will be on the second gen X3.

+1, unless you order a manual tranny, I would keep what you have or pick another brand.

I would tend to pick another brand since the X3 electronics are so old. However, it is a nice truck.

viii_ball
02-05-2008, 05:54 PM
Man, you are an awesome photographer. Everyone should take a moment and look at this guys work.

AWESOME Man. You have a true gift. My daughter was a graphic art major in college and really wanted to be a photographer.

viii_ball
02-05-2008, 05:57 PM
I reccomend that you keep your car. ...The reason I say this is because of all of these auto tranny problems on the 08. .

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1
Why risk it.

Andrew*Debbie
02-05-2008, 07:34 PM
Almost forgot. Do some research before you buy new tires.

BMW requires comparable tires to what your X3 came with. If you put on cheap S or T rated tires, you will be charged.

Dealers like to see Michelin, Continental or Pirelli. They might try and charge you for a discount brand H or V rated tires. If you go with one of the OE tires, you will be safe.

Rob V
02-05-2008, 08:52 PM
Man, those transmition problems really are bad huh? I'm wondering if that problem flows into the 3 Series. I had a 328xi loaner last week and the transmition was terrible. Jumping all over the place and having long unexpected pauses. It was crazy.

So far, the idea of buying out the car and keeping it for another few years is appealing to me because I like it so much with the exception of the fact that I only have 1 year of warranty left. That's the main reason why I lease, to have the car always under warranty.

Mystic1
02-05-2008, 09:17 PM
For $1500 BMW will certify the car and give you an additional 2 yrs/50K on the warranty if having a longer warranty is an issue. And if you're wondering, to certify the car it must have good tires. lol.

Rob V
02-05-2008, 10:23 PM
Wow. No kidding on that warranty extension? Is it the same as the warranty it initially comes with that covers the brakes and oil changes?

Mystic1
02-05-2008, 10:45 PM
Certification covers warranty items only. If you want covered maintenance, it's another $1500.

Something to keep in mind is that Certifying needs to be done at purchase, and the maintenance agreement can be done anytime before the original warranty expires. So you have about a year before you have to make that decision.

Andrewinla
02-05-2008, 11:43 PM
There must be a major difference in how each dealer takes back a car. I turned in a 05 325i to a local dealer and the guy took 10 minutes to look around (looked under hood, trunk for spare and jack, and looked at interior). He had me sign the release and said thanks! That was it. I washed and waxed it but my curbside rims were scraped, rear tire had a small chunk of rubber missing, had a few dings that I thought for sure would cost me, and my wife had scraped the lower side sill on a high driveway.

I guess I got lucky.

dashiell
02-06-2008, 03:27 AM
Andrewinla, What dealer?

Andrew*Debbie
02-06-2008, 06:58 AM
Man, those transmition problems really are bad huh?



That is a huge debate here. The safest thing to do is order an X3 with a manual. We did that and our 2007 is trouble free.


Quick summary:

There is a real problem. Not all cars are affected. A recent software update fixed the problem for some people. Poor dealer service is making the problem worse for some 'fest members.


In the case of both EE and vii_ball, the service department didn't correctly apply the software patch. vii_ball is working with a pig headed service adviser that is telling him "they all work like that"




I'm wondering if that problem flows into the 3 Series. I had a 328xi loaner last week and the transmition was terrible. Jumping all over the place and having long unexpected pauses. It was crazy.



Sounds like you got one. This is the first time I've seen someone report the problem in a 328xi. There is a TSB (service bulletin) for the 328xi for exact same issues as the X3. The fix is about the same.



So far, the idea of buying out the car and keeping it for another few years is appealing to me because I like it so much with the exception of the fact that I only have 1 year of warranty left. That's the main reason why I lease, to have the car always under warranty.


Your car is likely worth far less than the lease residual. We've owned two BMWs well past 100,000 miles. I've got a ton of advice if you plan to keep the car.

Andrew*Debbie
02-06-2008, 07:16 AM
Wow. No kidding on that warranty extension? Is it the same as the warranty it initially comes with that covers the brakes and oil changes?

No and no.

The original warranty is bumper to bumper. The CPO warranty only covers major items. CPO extends the roadside assistance to 6/100.


Some of things that are not covered:

Wear and Tear
All wear and tear items as defined in The Certified Pre-Owned BMW Protection Plan Consumer Information Statement (including all suspension parts and components).

Body and Interior
Paint; glass; headlamps; bulbs (except instrumentation); mirrors; lenses; body and chassis; body seals and gaskets; interior and exterior trim, moldings, and fasteners; upholstery, headliner, carpeting, floor and trunk mats; convertible top (all components except electronics); air or water leaks; wind or body noises; wheels; damage due to rust, corrosion, or contamination, except as covered by the BMW New Vehicle Rust and Corrosion Perforation Warranty.

Accessories
Radio/cassette player, telephone, navigation system, CD changer, or any components of those systems; non-original equipment parts, components or accessories.






You have to turn your car in and buy your car back from the dealer to get CPO. Dealers are not supposed to sell the CPO warranty as separate item. CPO cars are supposed to be inspected and reconditioned by the dealer. Dealer cost to CPO a car can vary greatly.

If you buy your car for residual, you can still get a warranty extension with similar coverage. In this case, the program is called Original Owners Protection Plan.

In both cases, you should negotiate the price. Current MSRP for Original Owners Protection Plan is $3,798.00. I'd be surprised if you can get it for $1,500.00


CPO cost is harder to know since the price will be part of what you pay for the car when you buy it back from the dealer.



You can purchase a maintenance extension as well. This is called the BMW Maintenance Plan. MSRP for an X3 is $1795.00 You can buy this from any BMW dealer in the US. Shop around for a discount!

Mystic1
02-06-2008, 12:39 PM
Well I know I paid $1500 for the CPO. The dealer took my X3 off lease 3 months early and paid the remaining payments (I checked...NOT rolled in), and I bought the car back for residual + $1500 for CPO, plus tax and title fees. In all, we paid $27,200 for the CPO X3 3.0i that originally had an MSRP of $45,000. Could I have found a better deal, most likely, but I knew the entire history of this car from mile #9, and my payments are the same as the lease payment was.

Andrew*Debbie
02-06-2008, 01:43 PM
Well I know I paid $1500 for the CPO. The dealer took my X3 off lease 3 months early and paid the remaining payments (I checked...NOT rolled in), and I bought the car back for residual + $1500 for CPO, plus tax and title fees. In all, we paid $27,200 for the CPO X3 3.0i that originally had an MSRP of $45,000. Could I have found a better deal, most likely, but I knew the entire history of this car from mile #9, and my payments are the same as the lease payment was.


Ahh now this makes sense.

Dealers can buy the cars from BMW FS for MMR. MMR is an estimate of the current wholesale auction price.

Your dealer made the last 3 payments and then bought the car from BMW FS for MMR. CPO'd it and sold it back to you at residual + $1500.


You paid a lot less than you would have if you'd bought the car for residual and then purchased and the original owner warranty and extended maintenance.

Sounds like this was a win for both you and your dealer.

Rob V
02-07-2008, 08:57 AM
You guys are incredible. Thanks for all the info. As nice as my sales rep was I can't say he was the most helpful or eager sales rep available. The problem is that he's still working there and if I go back I'd kind of feel obligated to go back to him and I'm not sure how much help he'd be. The good news is that it looks like there are plenty of options for me regardless of what route I take. Keeping the car for another few years seems like a good option right now but I don't know if I want to buy it back at the residual as sggested above because it will take that much longer to get "right-side-up" on the loan so that I can sell it down the road. Ugh...decisions, decidions!

In regards to the tires, someone suggested to pick up tires off eBay and have them installed locally but can anyone just install them? Aren't there sensros (and stuff) that need to be accounted for? I would hate to take it to the local GoodYear or something and have them screw something up that voids the warranty.

Evlengr
02-07-2008, 09:43 AM
How about tirerack.com?

Usually competitively priced.

Andrew*Debbie
02-07-2008, 09:57 AM
In regards to the tires, someone suggested to pick up tires off eBay and have them installed locally but can anyone just install them?

The only TPMS issue I'm aware of is you need to be careful with the valve stem. I'm not sure what year BMW started using active sensors. Our '07 has the sensors. You can tell because the valve cap looks different.


Many tire dealers will not mount customer provided tires.

I'd ask for recommendations for a local tire store. Another option is to follow EE's suggesion: tirerack.com and one of their installers.


Denver is only an hour away. Boulder isn't much farther. As I recall it is a nice drive in June. If your local dealer isn't helpful, it may be worth the drive.

Rob V
02-07-2008, 10:41 AM
Yep, Denver isn't that far away but when I initially got the car they couldn't meet the price offered by the local place. They were nicer to work with and were more helpful but they refused to honor the good lease rates at that time. That's the only reason I purchased locally. The were the only ones that honored (or even acknowledged) the lease rates at that time. You can bet I will be contact them this time around again though just in case.

Mystic1
02-07-2008, 10:42 AM
Well, if you go the buyout route, you can go to any dealer as Andrew*Debbie suggested. But your originating dealer MAY deal more for a repeat customer. Was your salesman new at the time of initial purchase? If so, he may have gotten a little more helpful/knowledgeable over time.

Rob V
02-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Well, if you go the buyout route, you can go to any dealer as Andrew*Debbie suggested. But your originating dealer MAY deal more for a repeat customer. Was your salesman new at the time of initial purchase? If so, he may have gotten a little more helpful/knowledgeable over time.

I don't believe he was new at all. And he actually left the dealership for much of the time I've had the X3 and recently came back so I don't know how much more knowledge he may have gotten. In any case, I'm going to try all routes. See what he offers me, see what Denver/Boulder offers me and what BMWFS can offer me.

I can't thank you guys enough for all this info. :thumbup: I'm really glad this forum is here.


So maybe I should start another thread but since we're rolling on this one I'll ask...What tires seem to be best on the X3? I didn't mind the Pireli Scorpions at all even the Colorado snow. I'm a bit disappointed that they need replacing at just 33k but I guess I'm a slightly "spirited" driver. I'm not really aggressive by any means but I like to take a good corner from time to time.

archrenov8
02-07-2008, 01:06 PM
I have been concerned about the Scorpions. I had Scorpion P Zeros as OEM on my Touareg, but that beast weighs 5,200 pounds, and it ate them up totally at 37k. I put on Nokian WR and they are incredible on the Treg. At 66k, they are still going strong, and it handles so much better in the turns.