PDA

View Full Version : 2007-2010 X3 Automatic Transmission Problem Master Thread!


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

KrisL
02-11-2008, 08:41 PM
I'm making this a sticky and merging all new AT threads from the main page into this one (I can not move older threads into this one because it will insert the previous messages above/before this post).


Thanks to AzNMpower32 (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/member.php?u=33212) for this summary:

The problem: A portion of 2007-08 X3s built between 9/2006 and 11/2007 my have possible faulty transmission software programming. This affects X3s equipped with the 6-speed automatic gearbox. The gearbox may fail to respond to throttle inputs, fail to engage a lower gear, or downshift very roughly in normal Drive mode. The problem is not exhibited in manual mode. Cold temperatures may or may not make the shifting quality worse.

The BMW fix There is a software update, this is the latest release as of 10/07

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B24 08 07 dated May 2007.

SUBJECT
GM6 - Various Transmission and Driveability Complaints MODEL
E83 (X3) with 6L45R (GM6) automatic transmission produced from 8/2006 up to 10/2007

SITUATION
The customer may complain of transmission shift quality or driveability issues, as described in the situations below:

1. There is a delay in throttle response through the 1-2 upshift when accelerating from a stop.
2. There is a lack of power or hesitation when reapplying throttle, during either a 4-3 or 3-2 tip-in downshift. This may occur after slowing with a closed throttle.
3. Harsh downshifts when slowing on a roadway with a rising gradient (EGS is in a hill program).

CAUSES
EGS software calibration DME software calibration

CORRECTION
In the event of a customer complaint, reprogram the EGS using only Progman V27.02.00 or higher. The latest X3 EGS software may be identified as: 0489RZ0RS450 R0FN10 using the following diagnosis path:

Control-module functions / EGS transmission control Diagnosis requests / Status, data reference

It is important that the DME is also at the latest software level. Refer to SI B12 17 07 for more information concerning the DME software identification and improvements.

DO NOT perform the transmission adaptation under Service Functions, as prompted on the Progman screen. This test module is not functional and will be removed in a future DIS DVD release.

Always refer to SI B 24 11 07 for more information regarding GM6 transmission terminology, adaptation functionality, and adaptation procedures. Important notes:

* The transmission must be in the "Park" position, otherwise the programming may abort with the following error:

EGS ***8211;Diagnostic trouble 2089 (COAPI) - Programming mode changeover faulty

* Only use an approved BMW battery charger set to PS (Power Supply) mode and properly configured for the applicable battery AH rating.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Please refer to the latest KSD for all applicable labor operations and allowances. If the appropriate labor operation is not contained in KSD, then a work time labor operation should be used.

Defect Code 24 00 38 61 00

Please post all future complaints and/or attempted resolutions on this thread! Thank you.

Andrew*Debbie
02-12-2008, 06:11 AM
If you are having problems and your dealer hasn't been able to fix them, call BMW NA customer service.

1-800-831-1117

viii_ball
02-12-2008, 06:32 AM
If you are having problems and your dealer hasn't been able to fix them, call BMW NA customer service.

1-800-831-1117

This does absolutely no good. I called and was told "Your complaint has been registered but please return to your dealer for any additional attention to this issue."

Evlengr
02-12-2008, 07:28 AM
Thanks to AzNMpower32 (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/member.php?u=33212) for this summary:

The problem: A portion of 2007-08 X3s built between 9/2006 and 11/2007 my have possible faulty transmission software programming. This affects X3s equipped with the 6-speed automatic gearbox. The gearbox may fail to respond to throttle inputs, fail to engage a lower gear, or downshift very roughly in normal Drive mode. The problem is not exhibited in manual mode. Cold temperatures may or may not make the shifting quality worse.

The BMW fix There is a software update, this is the latest release as of 10/07[QUOTE]

AznM's information is appreciated but tells the story from a third person's perspective.

And, since she has never experienced this issue-- does not accurately portray what has/is really happened or happening with this MAJOR PROBLEM!



Here is a more telling portrayal of what is happening with a growing percentage of 07/08 AT's

The Problem Over sixty percent of users polled on this website at the beginning of 07 have a faulty transmission and the number is not diminishing but growing with the inclusion of the 08 line. The gearbox will fail to respond at random times usually in critical life threatening situations such as merging into traffic or avoiding other careless drivers. Can't seem to decide what gear to be in when making quick uphill turns. While downshifting in SD the driver may experience down shifts so rough it seems like you have been rear ended by another driver. Cold temperatures seem to always excerabate the shifting issue and the vehicle may red line or not shift at a normal rate. The vehicle seems to work perfectly while in manual mode, which means this is not a mechanical, but programming issue.

The BMW Fix


tell the customer it is their fault and they don't know how to drive a BMW.
tell the customer all AWD's drive this way.
tell the customer it is the gas they use.
tell the customer no problem found or could not replicate the issue.
tell the customer no one else is complaining about this issue, and try to discredit them.
have customer call BMWNA and stall them until Lemon Law runs out.
actually do an update that temporarily fixes the problem in hopes customer will go away.
Have BMWNA's "Sock Puppet" (Vatkens) tell the poster that this has been reported to BMWNA and stall them some more.
tell customer to call BMWNA of which they will tell you it is up to the dealer of which they will telll you it's BMWNA's fault!


The Real Fix


Ask dealer for a trade assist, since they are not fixing the problem.
Get a MT since none of them seem to have this issue.
File with the NHTSA under recall/complaints since this is a life threatening issue and cannot be ignored.
Keep a running Log of all transactions, conversations, and all records of service
Call a Lemon Law Attorney and give him/her all records since BMWNA is once again stalling!


BMWNA has had more than ample time to correct this issue. It is now surfacing in the 08 models which says that they have not devolped a tried and true fix. Remember to keep the pressure on as this is not a matter of inconvenience but a life threatening problem. If you let this go BWM will not fix it as their past behavior has shown.

If this does not tell you something then CAVEAT EMPTOR directly applies.

MJS
02-12-2008, 09:00 AM
Bravo on the Sticky. Long overdue.

For those that consider this issue life-threatening, please use Manual mode until a proven, permanent fix has been applied. Since, as stated, the transmission does not exhibit the problems in this mode.
Yes, I know, this is not a fix, but a workaround.
This mode can also be used to reassure previously tainted family members that you have better control and get them back into the vehicle for needed transportation.

Sans Nil
02-12-2008, 09:33 AM
So is there another presumably better software update(s) coming from BMW on this?

I had my 07 X3 in for the October update and that did get it about 85% resolved for me.
Sure would be nice to get it fully fixed, I'm still shocked at the difference when I drive my wife's 06 X3 that has none of the issues I have.

MMME30W
02-12-2008, 09:58 AM
"...sock puppet..." :rofl:

...at least you still have your sense of humor, E. :p

Good stickie by the way, thanks Kris. :thumbup:

Evlengr
02-12-2008, 12:18 PM
Changed my Icon to something more subtle. Lol

Glad to see you read through the whole thing WingSpan.

Where did that quote come from btw? The service slips I have are not as detailed as that.

Andrew*Debbie
02-12-2008, 12:34 PM
So is there another presumably better software update(s) coming from BMW on this?



Yes. A more recent update was buggy and had to be pulled after it left several customer cars inoperable. Presumably there is another update on the way.


Dealers do not always perform the software update correctly. Reading the service bulletin , I can see how it would be easy to do the update wrong. You may want to ask another dealer to verify the software version numbers for both the EGS and DME.


Several members posted with "transmission" problems that turned out to be problems with the DSC. One way to test this out is to try driving your car with the DSC turned off. If your problems go away, you may have a bad sensor or other DSC problem.

Evlengr
02-12-2008, 12:52 PM
No disrespect, but I don't see how the service bulletin couldn't be more clear. It tells you what to do, what not to do, and what to look out for.

Seems pretty straight forward.

The latest update was so screwy they had to send the DME back to New Jersey.

They should be doing this as a SOP since some of the dealers techs are having a hard time interpreting these directions ----especially with the volatility of this issue.

Andrew*Debbie
02-12-2008, 01:35 PM
No disrespect, but I don't see how the service bulletin couldn't be more clear. It tells you what to do, what not to do, and what to look out for.




Yes. But you do have to read and follow them.

If a tech just hooks the car up to the BMW Software Service Station and starts the download, it may not work. Just leaving the car in neutral would be enough.

We know from several posts here on Bimmerfest, some techs are not checking the version numbers before returning the car.



Sending the DME and EGS to New Jersey is a good idea. Unfortunately that means taking the customer car off the road for a few days. Are keys coded to work a specific DME? I'm not sure how the EWS works on the X3. If BMW NA sends the wrong DME back, the car may not start.



There are personality conflicts coming into play too. That's a polite way of saying 'pig-headed' service manager.

I've certainly run into my share of dealer service problems, just not on this issue. In our experience the quality of service varies widely between BMW dealers.

Evlengr
02-12-2008, 01:48 PM
A/D what I mean is that when you schedule a service update for the vehicle a hot spare with the latest updates should be overnighted to the dealer or sent ahead of time and be waiting for the vehicle to arrive.

This would minimize downtime to a simple swap out and eliminate the point of failure that seems to be recurring. No more he said she said--just BMWNA.

They then replace your old DME with the new one and send the out-dated one back for bench testing, newest update, burn in period, then recycled to the next out dated vehicle.

This raises the level of quality assuarance along the whole custody chain.

Andrew*Debbie
02-12-2008, 03:32 PM
A/D what I mean is that when you schedule a service update for the vehicle a hot spare with the latest updates should be overnighted to the dealer or sent ahead of time and be waiting for the vehicle to arrive.



If we worked for BMW AG, that's how it would be done.

There are some issues to be overcome. The EWS sends a coded message to the DME when you put the right key in the ignition. The system is designed so that the EWS module isn't easy to bypass. I don't know if the DME is coded to the keys or if only the EWS is.

Evlengr
02-12-2008, 04:52 PM
My response was based upon one poster stating they had to send the entire DME back to New Jersey to be reflashed or replaced. Since they made no mention of the EWS and that they were/are an SA I figured that would have been mentioned.

Snow-man
02-13-2008, 10:33 AM
I am not a BMW owner at this point, but interested as I would like something nicer than my current ride.

I am doing my homework on different higher end awd's and the X3 is on my list.
Depending on the weather I will be test driving an X3 this weekend.
It seems from the poll a large group of people have this problem.
Has this transmission problem ever been fully resolved?
The cold weather package really worth it? Does it do what it says in other words?

I would go for a stick but the Missus doesn't want to drive one anymore.
Anyone have any experience with Carbone BMW?

Andrew*Debbie
02-13-2008, 10:52 AM
It seems from the poll a large group of people have this problem.



bimmerfest is not a scientific sample. People may come here and post because they have a problem. Likely the problem is not as widespread as the polls here make it out to be. However this is a real problem.

J.D. Power and CR don't show anything near the rates reported here. I'm still waiting for the next Consumer Reports ratings. The last one shows a trouble rate between 1% and 2% but most of 2007s were less than 6 months old in that survey.

Some of the cars with transmission problems are seriously messed up. Most are fine. It is a roll of the dice. I recommend ordering an X3 with a manual transmission.


I am doing my homework on different higher end awd's and the X3 is on my list.

Good. Be sure to check other makes too. BMW isn't the only one with automatic transmission problems.




Has this transmission problem ever been fully resolved?


Not yet. The 10/2007 update fixed the problem for some people. BMW continues to work on the problem. I don't know when the next update might be released.

Different cars have different symptoms, so there is likely more than one issue.


The cold weather package really worth it? Does it do what it says in other words?

Do you mind asking in another thread? We are trying to keep this one transmission only.

AzNMpower32
02-13-2008, 11:15 AM
I am not a BMW owner at this point, but interested as I would like something nicer than my current ride.

I am doing my homework on different higher end awd's and the X3 is on my list.
Depending on the weather I will be test driving an X3 this weekend.
It seems from the poll a large group of people have this problem.
Has this transmission problem ever been fully resolved?
The cold weather package really worth it? Does it do what it says in other words?

I would go for a stick but the Missus doesn't want to drive one anymore.
Anyone have any experience with Carbone BMW?
First off, Bimmerfest, or any other forum, is not representative of the population as a whole. Problems tend to be exaggerated on forums, because of course, people come here for help and answers. It's not all gloom and doom.

To answer your question, the manual gearbox on the X3 is a terrific mechanism. There's little reason not to get it. The brakes hold the wheels for 2s while on an incline (start-off assistant) to prevent the vehicle rolling back while you engage the clutch. The shifting is smooth, typical BMW. Plus, by buying a manual, you are telling BMW NA that there indeed is a demand for manual transmissions in the US. BMW took away the 3-pedal X5. Don't let the next X3 follow in its footsteps.

Secondly, the latest X3s do not appear to have any unusual problems with the automatic. They come with the latest software from the factory. So, if you order an X3 now, you'll get the latest build, the latest software for everything, and a big fat smile on your face because it's a terrific vehicle. The fix that came out for the older builds also fixed most vehicles, although a small number of those here are very vocal about the fact it hasn't worked on theirs.

Based on your location, I would not recommend sport package. I would recommend cold weather AND the heated steering wheel. The latter sounds silly until you try it. And then you start wondering why other cars don't have it. I wish my mom's 325i had this. The heated rear seats on the Cold Weather will come in handy, since the rear of the X3 does not have vents (cut it some slack, its based on the old 3-series from 1999). Xenon headlamps are very highly recommended. xDrive is a terrific system (when equipped with proper tires) and offers terrific control in many situations.

kjboyd
02-13-2008, 01:04 PM
Hmm: let's see, mine was bought back. HunterZ was trade assist, HT in germany was bought back... sure that's only three, but those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.

------------------------------------------------
I am not immune to the idea that someone may have a dud car. And I have had quite a few Bimmers and all had to go back in for something or the other. But, the cars are wonderful and the dealer (if competent) has always listed and fixed the problems.


But evl and the like agitate because they are out of touch totally and like to dish out and then shocked when they get it back.

I ask this:

What facts have you about BMW trade assisting people's X3 and for what reason?
Give me some solid info on that and then I can answer the question.

As it stands I have no data on the facts. Due educate, start a thread even.
__________________
2007 X3 Premium, step, owned
2008 Mercedes B200 (autotronic) Not avail in US (too bad really), leased

Formerly
2005 X3 Premium, Manual (lease ended)
2004 BMW 320i, step(owned and sold it)
2003 Mini Cooper, 5 speed (lease ended)
2000 323i, 5 speed (lease ended)

HT417
02-13-2008, 01:23 PM
bimmerfest is not a scientific sample. People may come here and post because they have a problem. Likely the problem is not as widespread as the polls here make it out to be. However this is a real problem.

Amen.

And +1 to AzN's post above.

HT417
02-13-2008, 01:31 PM
...HT in germany was bought back...

For clarification, my BMW assist was for multiple major mechanical defects that were present at delivery and during the first month of ownership, but none of these defects included the automatic transmission which is fine - build date 12/07.

Don't let my case scare you off - I'm an extreme exception to BMW's history of building quality cars.

Snow-man
02-13-2008, 04:53 PM
Don't scare easily even by the likes of most things. Now just to find a dealer that has both manual and automatic to do a proper A/B comparison. Would like to thank EE as his comments brought me to this website. So there is good in all things. Will let you know what I find if the weather will hold out as projected.

Evlengr
02-13-2008, 05:50 PM
Curious to know while I wait for paperwork to sort it self out.

After the last released update that scrambled the DME, have they decided on trying to re-release it?

I still have to put up with the unpredictable transmission for a while longer.

And thanks snow-man. I would advise to take one home for a weekend. The typical 15 minute demo drive is not enough time to see if you will or won't enjoy the automatic transmission.

Never drove a manual but have heard nothing but good things about it.

Personally I wish I had gotten the MT, but it's out of my hands at this point.

STE92VE
02-14-2008, 06:27 AM
Will let you know what I find if the weather will hold out as projected.

IMHO, you may want to test drive the X3 in bad weather.

Snow-man
02-14-2008, 07:03 AM
Sounds good, but I still need to open it up and run through the curves a bit as well. So maybe a two weekend test. Oh bummer, Lol.

STE92VE
02-14-2008, 07:17 AM
Sounds good, but I still need to open it up and run through the curves a bit as well. So maybe a two weekend test. Oh bummer, Lol.

Shouldn't that be "Oh bimmer"?.......:rofl:

el-sea
02-14-2008, 09:36 AM
If you are having problems and your dealer hasn't been able to fix them, call BMW NA customer service.

1-800-831-1117

been there done that. now what. the new software program made it worse. now it red lines and never goes into gear. any help is appreceiated. making payments have no car.

Evlengr
02-14-2008, 09:57 AM
Welcome to the club--call the service manager and cut right to the chase ask for technical rep from BMWNA to check your car. Get repsonse in writing. Apparently a number of dealers have trouble reading instructions and the updates may not have been done right.

Ask for detailed report of what updates have been done.

Document all transactions from here on out. You may need it.

awhitney07x3
02-14-2008, 09:59 AM
Today we took our 2007 X3 in for the 5th time to get the transmission fixed. We had the software upgrade a few weeks ago and it didn't help much. It is still a very unpredicatable ride with hesitations followed by crazy full throttle accelerations usually at a road incline/decline. The only thing that may have been fixed is the complete failure to accelerate when trying to get on to the highway. The service manager said sorry, that's all we can do. :thumbdwn: To add insult to injury, our dealership no longer gives you a BMW loaner when your car is in the shop. They rented a Chevy Impala for us.

Evlengr, you are absolutely right about the BMW 'Fix'. I've heard the first 5 remarks on your list from the service department. The first 3 times we took the car in to get this problem resolved, they said they couldn't duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. By the 4th time, the 1 year/ 12,000 mile period was over -the Lemon Law period in GA. However, if BMW didn't do anything the first 3 times, does that mean they failed to comply with the part of the Lemon Law that says, a "reasonable number of attempts to repair a nonconformity have been undertaken"? We're consulting a lawyer about all of this.

My mother's Dodge caravan shifts better than our X3. Pitiful and very, very disappointing. I don't know if we will ever buy another BMW. Our first 4 were great but this fiasco has me thinking BMW doesn't make quality vehicles any longer.

Evlengr
02-14-2008, 11:06 AM
Every state law varies, but it is my understanding that LL begins when you have formally notified them there is a problem. So getting a service slip may be that course. Technically you have to contact corporate BMWNA, but that might be splitting hairs. A lawyer will defintely be of help.

Evlengr
02-14-2008, 05:20 PM
My X3 is back in the shop again and will keep going back til they get it fixed, give me a manual, or buy it back.

For something that is such a small problem ---- more and more people seem to be stepping forward to voice the exact same complaints. On this web site alone there are 76 owners with the transmission problem. All of them are wrong? Hardly.
In the meantime as usual the loaner (528xi- now you know why I like my dealer and not BMWNA) drives smooth as silk. No jerking, hesistation, nothing. The 328i which has the same transmission has always behaved when a loaner as well.

Best advice in the meantime is keep every invoice, service slip, etc... and document everything.

Please report your transmission issues to the NHSTA, BBB, etc..

Sooner or later we will get this solved or BMWNA may be out $3,040,000 just by rough count on this website. Not to mention all lost future sales.

x3ml
02-15-2008, 08:51 AM
In the meantime as usual the loaner (528xi- now you know why I like my dealer and not BMWNA) drives smooth as silk. No jerking, hesistation, nothing. The 328i which has the same transmission has always behaved when a loaner as well.

Are you saying the 328i uses the same transmission as the 528xi, or you mean the X3. I doubt any other car uses the same AT as the 07/08 AT. Can anyone confirm this.

One request Evl, can you go find a Oct 07 build date (or later) X3 AT and tell us how it drives while you are at BMW? Just need your opinion.

Also thanks for putting together this, or did you copy from their training manual?:


The BMW Fix


tell the customer it is their fault and they don't know how to drive a BMW.
tell the customer all AWD's drive this way.
tell the customer it is the gas they use.
tell the customer no problem found or could not replicate the issue.
tell the customer no one else is complaining about this issue, and try to discredit them.
have customer call BMWNA and stall them until Lemon Law runs out.
actually do an update that temporarily fixes the problem in hopes customer will go away.
Have BMWNA's "Sock Puppet" (Vatkens) tell the poster that this has been reported to BMWNA and stall them some more.
tell customer to call BMWNA of which they will tell you it is up to the dealer of which they will telll you it's BMWNA's fault!



The sign that Vatkens' lack of respond here means after over a year, no real fix here.

kjboyd
02-15-2008, 09:21 AM
the trans in the X3 is a GM model... so yes, it's in MANY other brands.

Evlengr
02-15-2008, 10:25 AM
I can confirm that the 328 uses the same transmission as the X3 and have had no problems when given that as a loaner.

The list is the standard responses I was given and debunked immediately. It seems to me they may be the in the BMWNA customer service manual.

I have yet to get an X3 08. I may do a little recon and take my wife's car to another dealer so I can test drive one and ask the saleperson their take on the tranny if it either does or does not behave the way ours do.

I was going to do some long term test driving of other awd's this weekend, but I still have the 528 loaner.

Will post more info as it comes in......btw Land Rovers are not an option as they are being Lemon Lawed left and right for the 06 and 07 models, and folks are getting full buy backs so there's hope to solve our dilemna as well.

Andrew*Debbie
02-15-2008, 11:05 AM
I doubt any other car uses the same AT as the 07/08 AT.


The X3 and the 328xi use the identical GM GA6L45R transmission. It may also be used in the RWD 330i coupe sold in Europe. As far as I know, these are the only BMWs currently using that AT.


The 6L45 / 6L50 have a wikipedia entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission If you include all 4 variants 6L45 / 6L50 / 6L80 / 6L90, the transmission is used in 25 different GM models alone.




The 6 cylinder powered 5 series and the RWD e90 3 series use a ZF GA6HP19Z.

Terry J. Harris
02-15-2008, 11:17 AM
I've driven a 328xi loaner (this 5th occasion my X3 was in for the dealership tech to drive it over a period of time to see if he could replicate the hesitation, etc., I had described) and I felt it's transmission also was very erratic in response - including hesitation, rough shifting, intermittent occasions where it was revving/fighting to maintain around 1200 to 1500 rpms (rather than reaching normal idle) as it was coming to complete stops, and otherwise fairly unsatisfactory performance. So much so that I told my college daughter (who's mother wishes to buy her a new 328xi) that she has to buy a manual transmission for any BMW at this point. I think this GM GA6L45R auto transmission can present with some real gremlins, befuddling the BMW engineers.

Evlengr
02-15-2008, 12:09 PM
Terry, if you have had bad experineces with the 328 loaner it would show why there is such polarized respones on the X3.

Where some folks swear there are no problems and others like us swear there is.

5 out of the 6 328i loaners that I drove where very smooth.

The one was as bad as the standard X3 complaints.

Has the ZF GA6 been in use longer then the GM6?

Andrew*Debbie
02-15-2008, 12:54 PM
Has the ZF GA6 been in use longer then the GM6?


Yes. The ZF 6HP19 was on the e90 3 series from the start of production. I'm not sure if BMW used it before that. Audi use it too. I don't know who used it first.

The GM 6L45 and 6L50 were new for the 2007 model year.

I've been reading some posts in GM hot rod forums. A few people have tried to use the transmission so they could have a 6-speed in their custom cars. Small changes in the power train lead to all sorts of problems. Looks like the programming is very specific to the application.

AzNMpower32
02-15-2008, 01:18 PM
To be honest, I felt the '08 X3 loaner I had behaved similarly to my mom's '06 325i. Makes sense, given they use the same gearbox. The shorter gear ratios of the X3 make it rev faster (hence, it's really fast to accelerate) but otherwise I experience similar feel and behaviour.

It's odd that despite having an additional gear, the top gear revs on the highway are the same as my '04 X3. By adding another gear, they basically shortened the first few gears, and gotten rid of the "hole" between top gear and the 2nd-to-top gear that exists on the older 5-speed autos.

Andrew*Debbie
02-15-2008, 02:15 PM
To be honest, I felt the '08 X3 loaner I had behaved similarly to my mom's '06 325i. Makes sense, given they use the same gearbox.

'06 325i uses a ZF transmission.

Only the 328ix uses the same automatic transmission as the X3. (Not counting the European 330i )

Evlengr
02-15-2008, 02:26 PM
Ok lets take this from another angle. Why not use a transmission that is known to perform well under most conditions to an unknown. Cost?

Andrew*Debbie
02-15-2008, 02:44 PM
Ok lets take this from another angle. Why not use a transmission that is known to perform well under most conditions to an unknown. Cost?


I don't know if the ZF 6HP19 was / is used in any x-drive car. The previous x-drive cars were 5 speeds.


It is possible the ZF gearbox is in someway unsuitable.

Or maybe Magna already had a customer for an Automatic Transfer Case and associated hardware for the GM unit. Magna provides 4WD engineering and parts for a lot of car companies. New Venture Gear is part of Magna Powertrain...


This is total speculation on my part. No hard facts.

Evlengr
02-15-2008, 03:17 PM
Has Magna been the assembly/mfg of the X3 from the beginning?

If not when was it assigned to them?

Are they also the assembly/mfg for the X5? Or any other BMW vehicles?

Andrew*Debbie
02-15-2008, 03:38 PM
Has Magna been the assembly/mfg of the X3 from the beginning?

If not when was it assigned to them?

Are they also the assembly/mfg for the X5? Or any other BMW vehicles?


Magna Steyr have been involved with the X3 from the start. They assemble all X3s, build the transfer case, and also provided engineering assistance.


All X5s are built in Spartenburg county South Carolina.

At the moment the X3 is the only car Magna builds for BMW.

Z4 production will be moving to Magna when X3 production comes to South Carolina.

Magna is currently looking for customers to take up unused plant capacity.


It is unclear if BMW will be using Magna for more than the Z4.


Summary of all planned production changes. Some of this is rumor:

X3 -- Moving to SC
X6 -- Production has begun in SC. All X6s are built in SC
Z4 -- Moving from SC to Magna Styer in Graz, Austria
X1 -- Will be built in Leipzig. Plant already tooling up.
V7 / X7 whatever they call it -- Dingolfing
Unannounced unknown vehicle -- SC. Confirmed by BMW employee.

el-sea
02-15-2008, 04:39 PM
I'm back. Now they won't do anything else with the car nor give me a loaner. They are forcing me into going to an attorney. I don't understand why when they know all about this problem. Can anyone explain? I'm a true BMW driver (on number 5). I am so hurt!:cry:

AzNMpower32
02-15-2008, 04:41 PM
'06 325i uses a ZF transmission.

Only the 328ix uses the same automatic transmission as the X3. (Not counting the European 330i )
Really? The consensus, in the E90 section, is that only the 335i gets the high-performance ZF automatic gearbox.

Evlengr
02-15-2008, 05:15 PM
I'm back. Now they won't do anything else with the car nor give me a loaner. They are forcing me into going to an attorney. I don't understand why when they know all about this problem. Can anyone explain? I'm a true BMW driver (on number 5). I am so hurt!:cry:


You're saying that they wont take you car in for service? Please be more details. How many times has this been in for service, has it only been in for the tranny problem, The whole picture.

As much as I am not a fan of BMWNA they will call the dealer on your behalf.

Your vague comments can't help us help you. Be specific please.

With regards to the production location changes.

Makes me wonder why?

And how the vehicles will behave with different facilites.

kjboyd
02-15-2008, 05:16 PM
If they are refusing you warranty service... i think that is a whole new issue.

Evlengr
02-15-2008, 06:13 PM
I get the feeling we are all being "Played". No one is that naive, or at least I hope they aren't.

el-sea
02-16-2008, 12:16 AM
4 days from purchase november 06 I took the car back. This may be lengthy. The car jumped constantly. As a former race car driver at Riverside, I know cars. I know when something isn't right. Details:
1.excellerate out of curve or off of a red light or trying to get into the flow of traffic on the freeway on ramp...... Red line! then the tranismission Grabs and jerks enveryone in the car.
2.Excellerate from stop light, someone stops in front of you. Before you can decellerate and get your foot to the brake, the car finally responds and lurches forward, almost hitting the car infront of you.
3.Going up to the mountains (Big Bear) coming out of the curve, excelerate, the car reves up past the red line and stays there! It never caught, as if soneone put the car in neutral causing the 10 cars behind me to swerve to avoid hitting me.
I have been in 6 close calls
Love my car. Hate having a problem. Any questions and/or suggestions appreciated. Consulted an attorney reluctently today. Says have "very strong case". I really don't want a case. I want my BMW!

el-sea
02-16-2008, 12:38 AM
Today we took our 2007 X3 in for the 5th time to get the transmission fixed. We had the software upgrade a few weeks ago and it didn't help much. It is still a very unpredicatable ride with hesitations followed by crazy full throttle accelerations usually at a road incline/decline. The only thing that may have been fixed is the complete failure to accelerate when trying to get on to the highway. The service manager said sorry, that's all we can do. :thumbdwn: To add insult to injury, our dealership no longer gives you a BMW loaner when your car is in the shop. They rented a Chevy Impala for us.

Evlengr, you are absolutely right about the BMW 'Fix'. I've heard the first 5 remarks on your list from the service department. The first 3 times we took the car in to get this problem resolved, they said they couldn't duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. By the 4th time, the 1 year/ 12,000 mile period was over -the Lemon Law period in GA. However, if BMW didn't do anything the first 3 times, does that mean they failed to comply with the part of the Lemon Law that says, a "reasonable number of attempts to repair a nonconformity have been undertaken"? We're consulting a lawyer about all of this.

My mother's Dodge caravan shifts better than our X3. Pitiful and very, very disappointing. I don't know if we will ever buy another BMW. Our first 4 were great but this fiasco has me thinking BMW doesn't make quality vehicles any longer.

I am on the same page! Be glad your dealer offered you a loaner/rental car at all! Mine basically said with out saying "call an attorney" stating it was BMW NA and not the dealer who was responsible. I am considering calling someone to talk class action suit. Does anyone agree?

Evlengr
02-16-2008, 01:34 AM
El-sea,

one of the most aggravating things about this whole situation is the dealer blames BMWNA and BMWNA says it is the dealers repsonsibility.

Is this vehicle an 07? You mentioned 06 and they are different transmissions. in other words is the notorious 6 speed AT?

If they are refusing you warranty service----- report it to the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Fraud.

I know for a fact that the division in CA doesnt screw around.


On another note I absolutely agree that this is bordering on class action lawsuit. Unfortunately, it takes someone being injured to make something of this magnitude to move forward.

I am working with an attorney atm as well as the AG's office. I can say nothing more than that at this time.

IMO this is not a BMW so it needs to earn its stripes, the only way you are going to get a BMW is to follow the steps recommended.

Good Luck and get an attorney!

Andrew*Debbie
02-16-2008, 07:17 AM
Really? The consensus, in the E90 section, is that only the 335i gets the high-performance ZF automatic gearbox.

The 2006 325i got the ZF as well. The 328i gets the GM unit.

I looked up the parts



e46 Sedan
2005 330xi sedan 12/2004 GM A5S 390R - YX Part number 24 00 7 523 281

e83 X3
2006 X3 3.0i 7/2006 GM A5S 390R - YX Part number 24 00 7 523 281
2007 X3 3.0si 10/2006 GM GA6L45R - 4-WHEEL. Part Number 24 00 7 566 254

e90 Sedans:
2006 325i up to 08/2006 ZF GA6HP19Z. Part number 24 00 7 547 901
2007 328i 10/2006 GM GA6L45R. Part number 24 00 7 566 249
2007 328xi 10/2006 GM GA6L45R - 4-WHEEL. Part number 24 00 7 566 255
2007 335i 10/2006 ZF 6HP19. Part number 24 00 7 564 242


e60 Sedans:
2006 525i ZF 6HP19. Part number 24 00 7 547 901
2007 530i 10/2006 ZF 6HP19. Part number 24 00 7 547 899
2007 530xi 10/2006 ZF 6HP19 - 4-WHEEL. Part number 24 00 7 548 369
2007 550i 10/2006 ZF 6HP26 Part number 24 00 7 555 928

AzNMpower32
02-16-2008, 07:34 AM
That explains why the window sticker on the 325i (SA) notes a German-sourced transmission, whilst the 328i stickers all say France. I wonder if they drive any different. Ok, back on topic.

el-sea
02-16-2008, 09:51 AM
El-sea,

one of the most aggravating things about this whole situation is the dealer blames BMWNA and BMWNA says it is the dealers repsonsibility.

Is this vehicle an 07? You mentioned 06 and they are different transmissions. in other words is the notorious 6 speed AT?

If they are refusing you warranty service----- report it to the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Fraud.

I know for a fact that the division in CA doesnt screw around.


On another note I absolutely agree that this is bordering on class action lawsuit. Unfortunately, it takes someone being injured to make something of this magnitude to move forward.

I am working with an attorney atm as well as the AG's office. I can say nothing more than that at this time.

IMO this is not a BMW so it needs to earn its stripes, the only way you are going to get a BMW is to follow the steps recommended.

Good Luck and get an attorney!
Thank you for all of your help. I did everything BMW asked me to do. Once again they say there is nothing wrong with my car basically telling me I'm coocoo. After an entire year of this they forced me to get an attorney yesterday. Found a LA one who says he's seen many of these. And that I have a very strong case. BMW unlike Audi and GM has been settling out of court. Yes mine is an 07. She's a real beauty and handles so well for an suv. If only the transmission was a real bmw like the rest of her!
I will report to the AG because yes, they refused to fix the problem because they can't duplicate it. I told them to drive it up the mountain in freezing temps (that's when it went past redline and never went into gear at all!) They couldn't be bothered. All they had to do was look at this sticky thread to "know" there is a problem and I am not coocoo. What car do I buy when BMW pays me off? Will they fix this problem for 2009 x3's? Does anyone know.

Evlengr
02-16-2008, 11:10 AM
Please make sure to post to the NHTSA as they are the governmental organization that can push BMW to make a recall on this problem.

The more organizations this is reported to, the harder it will be for BMWNA to sweep this under the carpet.

This seems to be very uncommon I might add with most BMW's and specifically targeted to the GM6 transmission built in France.

There is a lot of finger pointing between dealerships and BMWNA. And no one will own up to the problem.

The good dealers are smart and get out of the problem as fast as possible.

Terry J. Harris
02-16-2008, 02:03 PM
For those of you who feel your Manual mode works quite well, can you try something for me? Start off in M1 by applying just enough gas pedal to reach around 1400 to 1600 rpms, and maintain those rpms in M1 for as long as the car will do so. Without applying any additional gas pedal, will your X3 then accelerate to around 3000 to 3500 rmps in M1? Mine does this after about 2 seconds at the 1400 rpm range. Just curious. Thanks!

awhitney07x3
02-16-2008, 02:45 PM
I am on the same page! Be glad your dealer offered you a loaner/rental car at all! Mine basically said with out saying "call an attorney" stating it was BMW NA and not the dealer who was responsible. I am considering calling someone to talk class action suit. Does anyone agree?

Perhaps it won't have to go as far as a class action lawsuit. I can only hope that BMWNA will do the right thing, eventually; but the way they have behaved so far is not favorable. I think the more negative publicity we instill, the better, as others have said. There must be other avenues to take. What are the car magazines and online reviews saying? Maybe we could take ads out in Car & Driver, Motor Trend, etc, asking for people with 07 X3 transmission problems to write certified letters to BMWNA. At least that would bring awareness of the problem to the auto world. Am I naiive to think that will do any good?

I understand why the dealers would want to put the blame on the manufacturer. BMWNA has given them lemons to sell. But the dealers' service depts have discredited both BMWNA and the dealers by insisting there was nothing wrong with the X3 and the owners were nuts to keep bringing in their vehicle for an imaginary problem. I guess we all have vivid imaginations and ESP since we are all having the same nightmare.

Andrew*Debbie
02-16-2008, 03:30 PM
What car do I buy when BMW pays me off?


An X3 with a manual transmission. Our is great.

Did you ever try taking your car to another dealer? I've seen several cases where the cars were not diagnosed or repaired correctly.


Will they fix this problem for 2009 x3's? Does anyone know.

Who knows :dunno: BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.

I think part of the problem is that there is more than one problem. If you read through the posts, not all cars have the same symptoms.

arcane
02-16-2008, 05:17 PM
That's why my SA has asked, after he and the BMWUSA regional service representative drove my X3 and confirmed that it has the X3AT disease. He said that BMW is devoting serious engineering effort to fixing this, and asked me to give them 4-5 weeks, which equates to mid-March. After that, I am told, if there is no fix, the dealer will refund (which is what I asked for).

I'm willing to hope for the best: if it doesn't work out my VP for blame is going to insist on a L*x*s RX (interesting model name, eh?).

Evlengr
02-16-2008, 05:39 PM
That's why my SA has asked, after he and the BMWUSA regional service representative drove my X3 and confirmed that it has the X3AT disease. He said that BMW is devoting serious engineering effort to fixing this, and asked me to give them 4-5 weeks, which equates to mid-March. After that, I am told, if there is no fix, the dealer will refund (which is what I asked for).

I'm willing to hope for the best: if it doesn't work out my VP for blame is going to insist on a L*x*s RX (interesting model name, eh?).

Arcane I reported this back in 05/07 and still dealing with it. Many people have been stalled just as long.
Personally I wouldnt do it. They have tried six times (4 is the limit for Lemon Law in my state), and keep saying we are committed to getting it right. They had the "Master Mechanic" from BMWNA tell me that it took him three times to get the SIB they currently have to stick. Preety bad when the head guy from BMWNA can't get it right. In the meantime I am paying full shot monthly payments for a vehicle that is 50% of what it should be.

To cover yourself please send a certified letter to BMWNA stating exactly what your SA said and what the dealer has promised to do. This will lock them down under Lemon Law regulations.

Evlengr
02-16-2008, 05:59 PM
An X3 with a manual transmission. Our is great.

Did you ever try taking your car to another dealer? I've seen several cases where the cars were not diagnosed or repaired correctly.




Who knows :dunno: BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.

I think part of the problem is that there is more than one problem. If you read through the posts, not all cars have the same symptoms.

A/D of all people on this website you have been the most neutral and polite. So I say this in the kindest way that I respectfully disagree. Just about everyone's symptoms are the same. They only change is due to what version of update they have in their DME and EGS they may be more or less severe.

Universally, there is a problem with shifting between 2-3 gear, stuttering when coming to rolling stop, and gear not fully engaging at a normal rpms.

I have offered several times for BMWNA to "Black Box" the vehicle since it is insane to ask a BMW rep to sit in my car for an extneded period of time. They have refused.

Not exactly a normal request but not exactly a normal situation. I don't think they are giving it the attention it deserves.

dashiell
02-16-2008, 07:08 PM
Arcane, what is the build date for your car?

arcane
02-16-2008, 07:25 PM
11/05/07. There are no viable SIB's to be installed, and they don't want to reinstall anything.

I have been in written contact with BMWUSA, and they say to work with the dealer. I'm willing to trust the dealer SA and the dealer management until mid March. The clock is ticking.

Snow-man
02-16-2008, 07:51 PM
Today I test drove the 08 BMW X3.

GOOD:


Handling
Ergonomics
Heated Seats
Heated Steering Wheel
Legroom and positioning of pedals
Cargo Area
Braking
Line of Vision


BAD:


Transmission - exactly as folks have posted. Can't find gears, racing rpms, SD drops gears like a Hammer


The sales man explained that due to the low mileage on the vehicle that its "Adaptive Transmission" would learn my style of driving and that would go away. I drove a new X5as well. It also had low mileage, but did not exhibit the transmission behavior. I asked the salesman if this also had an "Adaptive Transmission" of which he replied, "Yes".
I like everything about the X3, except the transmission. Normally I would have believed the salesman but I am unwilling to take a $42 thousand chance after all I have read. I explained in order for me to fully appreciate the vehicle I would need to drive a manual transmission. I did not mention or make him explain that this seems to be a very common problem among the new X3 BMW's.He is going to try to find one for me to test drive. For a new car to perform that way of any manufacturer, let along BMW is unfathomable. I will not be buying the AT 08 X3. Bummer Bimmer :thumbdwn:

AzNMpower32
02-16-2008, 08:25 PM
Today I test drove the 08 BMW X3.

GOOD:


Handling
Ergonomics
Heated Seats
Heated Steering Wheel
Legroom and positioning of pedals
Cargo Area
Braking
Line of Vision


BAD:


Transmission - exactly as folks have posted. Can't find gears, racing rpms, SD drops gears like a Hammer


The sales man explained that due to the low mileage on the vehicle that its "Adaptive Transmission" would learn my style of driving and that would go away. I drove a new X5as well. It also had low mileage, but did not exhibit the transmission behavior. I asked the salesman if this also had an "Adaptive Transmission" of which he replied, "Yes".
I like everything about the X3, except the transmission. Normally I would have believed the salesman but I am unwilling to take a $42 thousand chance after all I have read. I explained in order for me to fully appreciate the vehicle I would need to drive a manual transmission. I did not mention or make him explain that this seems to be a very common problem among the new X3 BMW's.He is going to try to find one for me to test drive. For a new car to perform that way of any manufacturer, let along BMW is unfathomable. I will not be buying the AT 08 X3. Bummer Bimmer :thumbdwn:
Find another X3 with the AT. What build date was your tester? Try another one if you can. I don't know about your dealer, but the dealer we bought our BMWs from lets people test drive most of the BMWs on the lot; They usually don't have specific "tester cars" except for new model releases, like when the 335i coupe first came out. (Then again, they let me test drive a brand new 335i coupe from a canceled order, with just 5 miles on the clock!)

To future posters that may be looking at test driving: Please note the build date on the vehicle information sticker, on the driver's door or driver's door frame

Snow-man
02-16-2008, 09:11 PM
Find another X3 with the AT. What build date was your tester? Try another one if you can. I don't know about your dealer, but the dealer we bought our BMWs from lets people test drive most of the BMWs on the lot; They usually don't have specific "tester cars" except for new model releases, like when the 335i coupe first came out. (Then again, they let me test drive a brand new 335i coupe from a canceled order, with just 5 miles on the clock!)

To future posters that may be looking at test driving: Please note the build date on the vehicle information sticker, on the driver's door or driver's door frame

AzMpower32, doesnt that seem a little silly to have to check the build date on the car your are test driving? Oh Im sorry the 40 thousand dollar plus car isnt right. Let me try another. I just picked out one that seemed to have the features I was looking for. It was not a tester vehicle. It was an 08 and should have had that worked out by now Right? Isnt that what people have been saying? I havent discounted the vehicle. Just the AT. Burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.:confused:

Terry J. Harris
02-16-2008, 09:47 PM
Snow-man, you very cogently make the simple point in all of this. While AzMpower32 and others may have X3AT's that truly respond to throttle input, there clearly are those X3's that don't. It's that simple - were not talking about a bad cup of coffee at the local coffee house, we're talking a $42K vehicle made by a company that has a history and reputation, deservedly, for making vehicles that perform, and perform particularly well. None of us with experience with BMW feel anything but pride and appreciation when we see or hear the slogan "ultimate driving experience" and have real experience with that from the bottom of the line on up. But "performance" in large part starts with predictable and expected response to driver input. The X3AT, both '07 and '08 from the owners posting on this BB, has some problems with living up to driver input. The vehicle otherwise is fantastic and other complaints seem trivial to the AT performance. But that fact changes nothing regarding the AT issue, and issue which appears to remain unresolved by BMW.

doubledeclutch
02-16-2008, 10:10 PM
Unfortunately, the fact that the X3 doesn't have any truly strong competitors may be the reason BMW has been so slow on adressing the issue. I just don't see the same slow response happening if Mercedes and Audi had their competitors on the market. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

Evlengr
02-16-2008, 10:26 PM
If the vehicles don't work then they are no longer competive it would seem, and judging by their sales. That may be the case. Do I wish that upon them. Yup..then maybe BWMNA will wise up and take care of things. Who knows at this point though.

Thinking about some other options if BMWNA will smarten up. What is the background on the 335i?

I have had a 528xi (a little gadgety if thats a word) this whole weekend and I love the car. However a 335 with the cold weather package seems to me a one for one in price to my X3.

Does the 335 have the dreaded GM6 tranny?

el-sea
02-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Please make sure to post to the NHTSA as they are the governmental organization that can push BMW to make a recall on this problem.

The more organizations this is reported to, the harder it will be for BMWNA to sweep this under the carpet.

This seems to be very uncommon I might add with most BMW's and specifically targeted to the GM6 transmission built in France.

There is a lot of finger pointing between dealerships and BMWNA. And no one will own up to the problem.

The good dealers are smart and get out of the problem as fast as possible.

I Reported to NHATSA This morning.

el-sea
02-16-2008, 11:26 PM
An X3 with a manual transmission. Our is great.

Did you ever try taking your car to another dealer? I've seen several cases where the cars were not diagnosed or repaired correctly.




Who knows :dunno: BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.

I think part of the problem is that there is more than one problem. If you read through the posts, not all cars have the same symptoms.

I have tried 3 different dealerships. The last was the most respectful and truly the most helpful. They even seemed concern until it came down to the last straw BMW NA...I went back and forth from dealership to BMW NA. They each said well the other says there's nothing wrong and nothing they can do. There is no problem if it doesn't happen when the tech drives it. BMWNA even sent a specialist out to the dealer. Didn't happen when he drove it so......My word and my children and grandchildren and friends word means nothing. Like someone here said "we are all hallucinating" or have ESP...(that one I have to Anni up to though). Is anyone else's surging forward after you take your foot off of the gas? One comment I am curious about a note from the tech in some paperwork .. "the tack hit 7000 in sport drive". Is it suppose to do that? I am not that knowledgeable.

el-sea
02-16-2008, 11:45 PM
11/05/07. There are no viable SIB's to be installed, and they don't want to reinstall anything.

I have been in written contact with BMWUSA, and they say to work with the dealer. I'm willing to trust the dealer SA and the dealer management until mid March. The clock is ticking.

I trusted for 15 months and 10 near accidents. 3 dealerships, BMWNA and now I have to put my trust in an attorney. bummed on my 5th bimmer

HT417
02-17-2008, 12:36 AM
Does the 335 have the dreaded GM6 tranny?

No, it has the newest ZF and my colleague swears by it. However, IF it's the same tranny as the 535xi gets, then you can still expect a big pregnant pause if you floor it in Drive at around 20mph. I experienced this myself as a passenger in a demo model with ~8000 miles on it. It would appear that any action that forces the engine control and tranny control to have to put their heads together will result in some kind of unwanted delay. For the quickest throttle response it seems Manual or Sport modes will always be best.

dashiell
02-17-2008, 02:01 AM
El-sea, I live on the Westside, I'm curious what dealers have you been to and what are your reviews of them? I personally go to SMBMW, and though the SA's are very pleasant, I have had many instances where my X5 was not properly fixed and I had to bring it back in for the same repair. Totally unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Many of the guy's in the shop seem to be incompetent, and unfortunately the SA's don't appear to check their work.

Andrew*Debbie
02-17-2008, 07:01 AM
.

Does the 335 have the dreaded GM6 tranny?


No. Both the coupe and sedan use a ZF transmission. I looked up a bunch of part numbers and posted a list of transmissions in this thread.

Here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3015223&postcount=52

Andrew*Debbie
02-17-2008, 07:22 AM
A/D of all people on this website you have been the most neutral and polite.


Thank you.


Just about everyone's symptoms are the same. ...


Is the "failure to respond to throttle input while making a left turn" problem fixed now?



I have offered several times for BMWNA to "Black Box" the vehicle since it is insane to ask a BMW rep to sit in my car for an extneded period of time. They have refused.


It is possible the current EGS and DME hardware doesn't have enough memory. One of the things I noted on the 128i/135i technical overview was a line about increased fault memory.

BMW could instrument your car the way they do with the engineering cars. I've seen spy photos of BMWs full of lap top computers.
We can hope they've already done that with another X3 and don't need yours. It is also likely the software team working on this isn't even in the US.

A few spy photos:


http://bp0.blogger.com/_WDZcui54SeE/RpsPuF__p9I/AAAAAAAAAE0/VO9IEAJalkM/s1600-h/v-series_spy_shot_250.jpg
http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/2010-bmw-x4-spy-shot-2.jpg

Computer clearly visible in this one:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/spy+shot/90/





Not exactly a normal request but not exactly a normal situation. I don't think they are giving it the attention it deserves.

You could be right. BMW has a huge amount of new car development underway.

X1, e90 facelift, new X3, new Z4, f01 7series, V7/X7 and the Mini SUV are confirmed.

X4, V5, Z9, and Isetta II are rumored.
A new "green" car to be marketed under a new brand name is also rumored.
One unannounced car is going into production at South Carolina.

AzNMpower32
02-17-2008, 08:55 AM
AzMpower32, doesnt that seem a little silly to have to check the build date on the car your are test driving? Oh Im sorry the 40 thousand dollar plus car isnt right. Let me try another. I just picked out one that seemed to have the features I was looking for. It was not a tester vehicle. It was an 08 and should have had that worked out by now Right? Isnt that what people have been saying? I havent discounted the vehicle. Just the AT. Burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.:confused:
The earlier '08s are likely to have issues as well. I had a '08 X3 as a loaner for one day with no unusual problems. Granted, its not as responsive as my '04, but it's about the same, if not better, than my parents' 325i, and I certainly don't think the 325i is dangerous. The loaner was a 11/08 build, which is after the software release came out.

Andrew*Debbie
02-17-2008, 09:08 AM
you can still expect a big pregnant pause if you floor it in Drive at around 20mph.

+1

I noticed that in a 335i coupe I auto crossed. The easiest way to get around it on the autocross course was to lock the car in 2nd.

I wouldn't call it a safety hazard. It was more along the lines of I'd prefer a manual.

Evlengr
02-17-2008, 10:03 AM
Thank you.



Is the "failure to respond to throttle input while making a left turn" problem fixed now?

Actually this is the one that always shows up. Sunday we have a ritual of going to a certain star bucks that has an uphill right turn to get to. That is where it always staggers and jerks---everytime since I bought it.




It is possible the current EGS and DME hardware doesn't have enough memory. One of the things I noted on the 128i/135i technical overview was a line about increased fault memory.

BMW could instrument your car the way they do with the engineering cars. I've seen spy photos of BMWs full of lap top computers.
We can hope they've already done that with another X3 and don't need yours. It is also likely the software team working on this isn't even in the US.

I wont guess about the memory capacity, but with todays memory being so cheap that shouldn't be an issue. And if they had been fully testing it as they should the last release wouldn't have toasted a customers DME as posted on another thread, right?

A few spy photos:


http://bp0.blogger.com/_WDZcui54SeE/RpsPuF__p9I/AAAAAAAAAE0/VO9IEAJalkM/s1600-h/v-series_spy_shot_250.jpg
http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/2010-bmw-x4-spy-shot-2.jpg

Computer clearly visible in this one:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/spy+shot/90/






You could be right. BMW has a huge amount of new car development underway.

X1, e90 facelift, new X3, new Z4, f01 7series, V7/X7 and the Mini SUV are confirmed.

X4, V5, Z9, and Isetta II are rumored.
A new "green" car to be marketed under a new brand name is also rumored.
One unannounced car is going into production at South Carolina.

Lastly if they are so focused on new development that they forget about current customers that is one of the major marketing mistakes. Forget about you core clients. They are your biggest supporters and most vocal when you don't keep your promises.

By not admitting their is a problem and working with customers openly they are losing a level of trust that will be hard to regain.


As it stand now I am just exploring options til I can get rid of my X3. It's nice to have a vehicle I can put my family in..the 528 is doing nicely and since the 335 doesnt have the crap (and that is the nicest words I can come up with) tranny it might be an nice alternative.

HT417
02-17-2008, 11:12 AM
Actually this is the one that always shows up. Sunday we have a ritual of going to a certain star bucks that has an uphill right turn to get to. That is where it always staggers and jerks---everytime since I bought it.

For those of you with the tranny problems this is one of the things I was wondering about. Is there a section of road near your dealership where you can consistently demonstrate the problem to the SA or mechanic? If you can/have, do they still insist it's normal?

STE92VE
02-17-2008, 11:18 AM
The earlier '08s are likely to have issues as well. I had a '08 X3 as a loaner for one day with no unusual problems. Granted, its not as responsive as my '04, but it's about the same, if not better, than my parents' 325i, and I certainly don't think the 325i is dangerous. The loaner was a 11/07 build, which is after the software release came out.

I fixed your post.....:D

HT417
02-17-2008, 11:37 AM
The earlier '08s are likely to have issues as well.

Possibly. I had a 12/07 and now I have a 09/07. The 12/07 was actually the most erratic up until at least 600 miles. The 09/07 has been much smoother from the beginning but with less than 300 miles so far I'm withholding final judgement. Although the 09/07 is by no means lazy, the 12/07 seemed more responsive and connected, like the feel you would get from a manual. I don't know if that's just a function of the different characteristics of the sport(09/07) vs. non-sport(12/07) chassis or if it reflects an applied software update. I'll try to remember to update once I find out if the two cars had different versions.

awhitney07x3
02-17-2008, 11:51 AM
I Reported to NHATSA This morning.

I did, too. Although, I'm out of town and didn't have my VIN with me. Hope that doesn't matter. Now on to BBB.

Andrew*Debbie
02-17-2008, 12:43 PM
I wont guess about the memory capacity, but with todays memory being so cheap that shouldn't be an issue.




The DME is a Siemens MSV 80. I'm looking for data.

Magoon
02-17-2008, 01:06 PM
As a long time lurker and someone who is considering an 07 X3, I find this saga very disturbing. I am off to test drive the vehicle during this coming week and even if I like it, may have to pass for fear of another problem child. :(:dunno:

doubledeclutch
02-17-2008, 02:48 PM
I am off to test drive the vehicle during this coming week and even if I like it, may have to pass for fear of another problem child. :(:dunno:

Interesting approach. So assuming you take the car for a long test drive, really go over it with a fine tooth comb, and like the vehicle and the way the transmission works, you may not buy it because OTHER PEOPLE have issues with their cars?

How bout you use the posts on this board to help you look for potential problems while you are taking the car on a test drive. That way you can MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION. But if you typically let other people make your car buying choices for you, then don't pay any attention to this post.:thumbup:

Magoon
02-17-2008, 03:44 PM
Interesting approach. So assuming you take the car for a long test drive, really go over it with a fine tooth comb, and like the vehicle and the way the transmission works, you may not buy it because OTHER PEOPLE have issues with their cars?

Possibly. I have been through the growing pains of one problem child and spotty dealer support and don't need another.

How bout you use the posts on this board to help you look for potential problems while you are taking the car on a test drive. That way you can MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION. But if you typically let other people make your car buying choices for you, then don't pay any attention to this post.:thumbup:

That's what I plan on doing.

AzNMpower32
02-17-2008, 04:13 PM
Interesting approach. So assuming you take the car for a long test drive, really go over it with a fine tooth comb, and like the vehicle and the way the transmission works, you may not buy it because OTHER PEOPLE have issues with their cars?

How bout you use the posts on this board to help you look for potential problems while you are taking the car on a test drive. That way you can MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION. But if you typically let other people make your car buying choices for you, then don't pay any attention to this post.:thumbup:
+1. The proportion of people on this board isn't representative of the population either. There are many voices here, and in the real world, that are unheard because well, they're happy with their vehicle and don't need to complain.

el-sea
02-17-2008, 05:20 PM
El-sea, I live on the Westside, I'm curious what dealers have you been to and what are your reviews of them? I personally go to SMBMW, and though the SA's are very pleasant, I have had many instances where my X5 was not properly fixed and I had to bring it back in for the same repair. Totally unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Many of the guy's in the shop seem to be incompetent, and unfortunately the SA's don't appear to check their work.

Asseal in Monrovia, Irvine BMW and Crevier in Santa Ana. Crevier was the best and most hepful. But ruled by BMWNA The attorny I hired is in Claremont.

el-sea
02-17-2008, 05:27 PM
For those of you with the tranny problems this is one of the things I was wondering about. Is there a section of road near your dealership where you can consistently demonstrate the problem to the SA or mechanic? If you can/have, do they still insist it's normal?

My problems seem a bit more severe than just uphill right or left. Mine lunges forward after taking my foot off of the trodle and before I can get to the brake. Not to mention the up hill right in cold temps when it went completely into nuetral on its own, the constant red line and grab a gear and jerk everyone in the car. And no ... no hills near the dealerships here. But I might just try finding a hill and seeing if it happens constantly then find a 4the dealr to take it to!

Evlengr
02-17-2008, 05:55 PM
El-sea, your attorney should have told you not to discuss it with any BMWNA agent of any sort at this time. I was told in order for the attorney to do their job correctly it helps avoid the "He said--She said" syndrome. In other words no one can claim that one party or another said something they didn't. (As we are somewhat anonymous on this board)

The people that have the constant optimism with the X3 are the ones that don't have the problem. And using their logic their is a multitude of people that don't know about web sites like this or are afraid to step forward with this problem. So you don't hear about them either.


Now to play devil's advocate I can understand why they feels this way.

When a BMW runs right it's awesome. When it doesn't its dangerous.

I have had a 528xi loaner for the better part of four days now. Even my wife who has not been in my X3 since the last episode commented on how nice it shifted and how smooth the acceleration is. This has made me consider the 335xi as a replacement for the X3 because it has AWD and a different transmission (kinda' throws the, "All AWD's drive this way out the window response" I got from the dealer). It seems to be in the same price point as the X3 so it seems for me to be a logical replacement.

So next time the dealer says all AWD's drive this was, ask them to take a cruise in one of the AWD Xi models that have the different transmission. Then have them try to explain their way out of it again.

I dont know what the common denominator is at this point, but maybe like the old detroit joke, this is a Monday car. We will probably never know since BMWNA is very guarded about the smallest thing, let along this crappy tranny.

Don't buy the hype. If you have one of the bad transmissions it's not going to get better. BMWNA has been given over a year to correct this. Their latest SIB release damaged the DME beyond use.

Just ask for a Trade Assist, and if they say no, just send a letter to BMWNA informing them you will seek Lemon Law actions. This was they have no choice to but deal with it.
If you choose another X3 that is up to you, but at least this way it up to you!:thumbup:

MJS
02-17-2008, 06:43 PM
Their latest SIB release damaged the DME beyond use.


One person's account/issue. And we don't know the details of it.

Evlengr
02-17-2008, 07:40 PM
One person's account/issue. And we don't know the details of it.

I was told by the Master Mechanic from BMWNA that they wouldn't run it to due to "flaws".


Actually well established the last SIB doesn't work, but here is another posters word for it.



Who knows :dunno: BMW continues to release updates. The most recent one made things worse and was pulled. Presumably, they will fix it and release it again.



I was ready to give up on BMW until this weekend. I have a 528xi as a loaner.

Here's a more positive spin than my normal posts:

What are the advantages v. disadvantages of the 335Xi vs the X3 (other than the obvious height/clearance, panoramic roof, and hatchback)?

MJS
02-17-2008, 07:48 PM
:rofl:
Good luck.

Evlengr
02-17-2008, 08:47 PM
:rofl:
Good luck.

yeah MJS I have the SIB sheet from the Master Mechanic BMWNA sent out to check my car. I spoke to him personally and asked him about the last update, and if they would be releasing a newer one in the near future. His comment was there were "Flaws" in the last update.

How much more factual do you want?

Since BMWNA won't even admit there is a problem I would say that is the most official word around.

More importantly--- Any feedback on X3 vs 335xi?

awhitney07x3
02-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Possibly. I have been through the growing pains of one problem child and spotty dealer support and don't need another.



That's what I plan on doing.
good decision! my x3 ran fine for the first few hunderd miles, so a test drive and a fine tooth comb won't necessarily tell you the truth about the transmission. Getting educated about an issue is a great way to make your own decision. I wouldn't take a (another) $40k risk right now either considering the evidence.

Andrew*Debbie
02-17-2008, 09:11 PM
One person's account/issue. And we don't know the details of it.


More than one report on this forum. And BMW pulled the update.

kjboyd
02-17-2008, 09:47 PM
can those of you who do NOT have transmission issue PLEASE tell those of us that do/did WHY you are SO hostile and angry that we talk about it, and to a degree, blame US for the problem?? Be thankful your X3 doesn't have the problem and be sympathetic to those of us who do/did.

why is that so hard for you?

kjboyd
02-17-2008, 09:54 PM
dupe post removed.

kjboyd
02-17-2008, 10:00 PM
can those of you who do NOT have transmission issue PLEASE tell those of us that do/did WHY you are SO hostile and angry that we talk about it, and to a degree, blame US for the problem?? Be thankful your X3 doesn't have the problem and be sympathetic to those of us who do/did.

why is that so hard for you?

Evlengr
02-17-2008, 10:06 PM
Agreed KJ and others. We have moved the discussions to the AT thread as many have requested (makes sense).

So if you don't have AT issues great, but don't put down those of us that do, and are trying to figure out ways to deal with it.

Move ON

So any success stories with fixing this problem 100%? If so please tell us how.

If not tell us what you are doing to try to solve it (other than work arounds).

HT417
02-18-2008, 12:00 AM
More importantly--- Any feedback on X3 vs 335xi?

Evl - you probably want to start a new thread for this. :thumbup:

HT417
02-18-2008, 12:19 AM
But I might just try finding a hill and seeing if it happens constantly then find a 4the dealr to take it to!

In my experience, most SA's/mechanics sincerely try to help you but they're only human. My approach is to always help them help me by narrowing down the specific parameters/symptoms of the problem as much as possible and to make sure they're consistent and repeatable during a test drive/demonstration. If you can easily prove your complaint then it's easier for them to help. Once the SA/mechanic agrees with you that something's not right, then it becomes their obligation to fix it even if a fix isn't immediately available. I'll also point out for those of you who weren't aware, BMWNA must authorize all part replacements in advance unless it's obvious that it's bad, i.e. leaking, physically broken. In the case of less obvious defects, the burden to prove a problem sits more heavily on the customers' shoulders.

el-sea, it would seem that you should have little trouble convincing the SA of the throttle problem at least.

MJS
02-18-2008, 05:26 AM
can those of you who do NOT have transmission issue PLEASE tell those of us that do/did WHY you are SO hostile and angry that we talk about it, and to a degree, blame US for the problem?? Be thankful your X3 doesn't have the problem and be sympathetic to those of us who do/did.

why is that so hard for you?

I have transmission issues with my X3. I was not hostile, nor angry. Didn't blame anyone.

I was merely straightening the facts. We've heard ONE report of the new update frying a DME and it needing to be sent back to NJ. ONE. For all we know it could have been the mechanic's fault hooking up the gear or not following the instructions. Seriously, no one knows the reason that ONE DME fried, except BMWNA. Stating that the latest SIB release is damaging all DMEs beyond repair is a bending of the truth. People should not get the idea that their car will be damaged if they take it in for software updates.
Didn't know about his personal talks with the regional master mechanic. I'm surprised they told Evl anything with all his threats of lemoning it.

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 06:00 AM
We've heard ONE report of the new update frying a DME and it needing to be sent back to NJ. ONE.



There has been more than one case of the most recent update bricking the DME. They are easy enough to find.



Besides EE's DME, there is this one. Poster works at a BMW dealer.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2920150&postcount=102

MJS
02-18-2008, 06:37 AM
There has been more than one case of the most recent update bricking the DME. They are easy enough to find.



Besides EE's DME, there is this one. Poster works at a BMW dealer.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2920150&postcount=102

That is the only one that has been reported on this board. EE's did not have this issue.

Evlengr
02-18-2008, 07:49 AM
That is the only one that has been reported on this board. EE's did not have this issue.

I know it didn't because of this board. You keep trying to discard the fact that a master mechanic for BMWNA stated that this was not rolled out due to problems.
In just about every account with dealing with the transmission issues BMW has not been forth coming until pressed with other evidence of the problem. The first couple of months I go the, "You're the only one with this problem" answer.

Nor have they issued any statement that they have a fix of any sort up coming.

And also if you recall the person that did report the problem with their vehicle is an employee of BMW.

IMO they don't care, or they think they are immune to accountabilty. If they did they would have been up front and worked with anyone that has the problem. In just about every case reported here, the owner has had to prod, cajole, beg, or threaten to get some kind of forward momentum on resolving this.

Show us a little good faith and admit there is a problem. Most of the people here have been extremely patient with BMWNA----- that will only go so far.



If you wait for it to get fixed on its own BMWNA has no real motivation to correct this as they seemed to be focused on new ventures instead of taking care of current customers.

Have you written BMWNA? That seems to be the best start.

Or what measures have you taken to move this forward with your vehicle.

MJS
02-18-2008, 08:01 AM
I know it didn't because of this board. You keep to discarding the fact that a major player for BMWNA stated that this was not rolled out due to problems.
In just about every account with dealing with the transmission issues BMW has not been forth coming until pressed with other evidence of the problem.
Nor have they issued any statement that they have a fix of any sort up coming.

And also if you recall the person that did report the problem with their vehicle is an employee of BMW.

IMO they don't care, or they think they are immune to accountabilty. If they did they would have been up front and worked with anyone that has the problem. In just about every case reported here, the owner has had to prod, cajole, beg, or threaten to get some kind of forward momentum on resolving this.

Show us a little good faith and admit there is a problem. Most of the people here have been extremely patient with BMWNA that will only go so far.

No, I'm not discarding facts. I just want the facts straight. Simple as that. Stick to the issue being debated. Only one person claimed that the newest update fried their DME.

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 09:31 AM
That is the only one that has been reported on this board. EE's did not have this issue.


My bad.

Still the most recent update bricked DMEs and BMW rolled back to the previous update.

el-sea
02-18-2008, 10:02 AM
In my experience, most SA's/mechanics sincerely try to help you but they're only human. My approach is to always help them help me by narrowing down the specific parameters/symptoms of the problem as much as possible and to make sure they're consistent and repeatable during a test drive/demonstration. If you can easily prove your complaint then it's easier for them to help. Once the SA/mechanic agrees with you that something's not right, then it becomes their obligation to fix it even if a fix isn't immediately available. I'll also point out for those of you who weren't aware, BMWNA must authorize all part replacements in advance unless it's obvious that it's bad, i.e. leaking, physically broken. In the case of less obvious defects, the burden to prove a problem sits more heavily on the customers' shoulders.

el-sea, it would seem that you should have little trouble convincing the SA of the throttle problem at least.

Unfortunately this is not the case with the lunging forward after removing foot from throttle. It has happened only 3 times in 1 year. The cutting out completely and never going into gear was coming out of a tight curve in freezing temp. I live in Sunny California and was in the mountains hours away. Hard to duplicate here.

Evlengr
02-18-2008, 11:45 AM
No, I'm not discarding facts. I just want the facts straight. Simple as that. Stick to the issue being debated. Only one person claimed that the newest update fried their DME.


Ok----

The facts:


the latest SIB that is being pushed out to vehicles partially works.
BMWNA continues to keep its clients and dealers in the dark with new updates.
the latest update didn't work and was pulled back.
:rolleyes:

Better?

MJS
02-18-2008, 12:10 PM
Ok----

The facts:


the latest SIB that is being pushed out to vehicles partially works.
BMWNA continues to keep its clients and dealers in the dark with new updates.
the latest update didn't work and was pulled back.
:rolleyes:

Better?

Much better. Now was that so hard? :tsk: :dunno: :thumbup:

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 02:03 PM
The DME is a Siemens MSV 80. I'm looking for data.

I have had little luck finding details.


This is the best I've found so far. Worth a read. Sounds like Siemens engineers may provide the software to BMW. Or maybe they work together. There is a Z4 hooked up to a development system in one of the photos. The photo on the first page is a BMW, with the steering wheel Photoshoped to remove the logo. Hardly conclusive, but it is the best I could find.

http://www.vdo.com/NR/rdonlyres/F9D2FE9D-C7DA-410C-88D1-16FB86AA2162/0/engineering_services_en.pdf


The Siemens EMS 2 ECU is 512kB to 4MB flash, 32Kb to 144kB RAM and 8k to 48k SPRAM.


http://www.vdo.com/NR/rdonlyres/25DF4EB1-171A-4CDD-A7FC-6B14BA988E0E/0/brochure_gasoline_systems_en.pdf


SPRAM -- Static Parameter RAM? That's my guess. If that is where they stuff the fault codes, then even 48K isn't much for a data recorder. Not all of it is going to be available either. I'd guess that is where the DME adaptive parameters are stored too.

I have no idea if the BMW MSV 80 DME is built on EMS 2 platform though. There are several standard sizes. I'm sure they could do a full custom too. If that is the case, then the EMS 2 specs are meaningless.



Continental bought SiemensVDO last year....

STE92VE
02-18-2008, 02:18 PM
If you wait for it to get fixed on its own BMWNA has no real motivation to correct this as they seemed to be focused on new ventures instead of taking care of current customers.


Wow, that is a very harsh statement and I understand your frustration. But, don't you think it would better serve the forum to stay with the facts rather than make inflammatory comments like this?

HT417
02-18-2008, 02:40 PM
Unfortunately this is not the case with the lunging forward after removing foot from throttle. It has happened only 3 times in 1 year. The cutting out completely and never going into gear was coming out of a tight curve in freezing temp. I live in Sunny California and was in the mountains hours away. Hard to duplicate here.

That's going to be a tough one. Maybe the next dealer can get it sorted out. Good luck. :thumbup:

Evlengr
02-18-2008, 03:30 PM
Wow, that is a very harsh statement and I understand your frustration. But, don't you think it would better serve the forum to stay with the facts rather than make inflammatory comments like this?

Ok,

Facts:


The GM6 transmission problem has not been fixed properly.
BMWNA has had over a year to fix it.
BMWNA will not openly acknowledge there is a problem.
BMWNA continues to keep its clients and dealers in the dark related to SIB updates or resolution.


What other conclusion can be drawn at this point?:confused:

Evlengr
02-19-2008, 07:54 AM
Recently I reported that along with the transmission issues in my vehicle it was now leaking water in the passenger area.

To be fair since I have slammed BMW on the transmission I have to be fair and say it was indirectly my fault on the water issue.

It turns out that the installer "Tweeter" that is supposed to be top of the line tore and cut the "Vapor Barrier" in the doors to install the speakers. This allowed water in heavy rain to leak into my vehicle.

The dealer that has always done right by me (Passport) had never seen this before and took several days tracking it down.

Again, in my highly agitated state with the transmission I was ready to blame BMW for the water problem and it is they that fixed it.


Size 11 now being removed from mouth!

MJS
02-19-2008, 08:54 AM
Evl,

Nice job on the candor of the water issue. Especially on a public forum.
Your stock just went up a bit in my book. :)

UncleJ
02-19-2008, 12:41 PM
+1!

dashiell
02-19-2008, 04:44 PM
+2 I always think highly of one who is willing to admit culpability. Not nearly enough of this in todays litigious society. Kudos.

Zoltar
02-19-2008, 07:07 PM
Recently I reported that along with the transmission issues in my vehicle it was now leaking water in the passenger area.

To be fair since I have slammed BMW on the transmission I have to be fair and say it was indirectly my fault on the water issue.

It turns out that the installer "Tweeter" that is supposed to be top of the line tore and cut the "Vapor Barrier" in the doors to install the speakers. This allowed water in heavy rain to leak into my vehicle.

The dealer that has always done right by me (Passport) had never seen this before and took several days tracking it down.

Again, in my highly agitated state with the transmission I was ready to blame BMW for the water problem and it is they that fixed it.


Size 11 now being removed from mouth!

Lets be fair now.
You had a specialist scheduled to look at your X3. He determined that you actually did not have the latest software. When you got it back, some asked what you now thought. You said it was too early and you didn't want to comment. A few days later you found the water and it went back. So all of your comments have actually been regarding the old software. Just sayin.:)

Evlengr
02-19-2008, 07:30 PM
Zoltar, Somewhat true.

My X3 is still not working correctly with the transmision.

However, I did throw in the "Oh Geez Factor" that the thing was now leaking "Can't they do anything right?"

This was brought on by my "I know what I'm Doing" arrogance with installing the speakers in the doors, even though a lot of people flinched and warned me there might be repercussions. So when it's my fault its my fault.

The past few days with this one 528xi has given me a better picture of why people defend and love thier BMW's so vigorously.

They are cool --I just haven't had one that is!

Zoltar
02-19-2008, 07:44 PM
You should make them an offer on your loaner 528ix.
Stick with a winner I say.
The 528 is a great vehicle; in another whole class from the X3.
You and the X are just never going to be right again.

Evlengr
02-19-2008, 07:51 PM
You should make them an offer on your loaner 528ix.
Stick with a winner I say.
The 528 is a great vehicle; in another whole class from the X3.
You and the X are just never going to be right again.

Have you been talking to my wife?:rofl:

Zoltar
02-19-2008, 08:00 PM
Have you been talking to my wife?:rofl:

:wow::wow::wow::wow::wow::D

el-sea
02-20-2008, 07:41 AM
El-sea, your attorney should have told you not to discuss it with any BMWNA agent of any sort at this time. I was told in order for the attorney to do their job correctly it helps avoid the "He said--She said" syndrome. In other words no one can claim that one party or another said something they didn't. (As we are somewhat anonymous on this board)
The people that have the constant optimism with the X3 are the ones that don't have the problem. And using their logic their is a multitude of people that don't know about web sites like this or are afraid to step forward with this problem. So you don't hear about them either.


Now to play devil's advocate I can understand why they feels this way.

When a BMW runs right it's awesome. When it doesn't its dangerous.

I have had a 528xi loaner for the better part of four days now. Even my wife who has not been in my X3 since the last episode commented on how nice it shifted and how smooth the acceleration is. This has made me consider the 335xi as a replacement for the X3 because it has AWD and a different transmission (kinda' throws the, "All AWD's drive this way out the window response" I got from the dealer). It seems to be in the same price point as the X3 so it seems for me to be a logical replacement.

So next time the dealer says all AWD's drive this was, ask them to take a cruise in one of the AWD Xi models that have the different transmission. Then have them try to explain their way out of it again.

I dont know what the common denominator is at this point, but maybe like the old detroit joke, this is a Monday car. We will probably never know since BMWNA is very guarded about the smallest thing, let along this crappy tranny.

Don't buy the hype. If you have one of the bad transmissions it's not going to get better. BMWNA has been given over a year to correct this. Their latest SIB release damaged the DME beyond use.

Just ask for a Trade Assist, and if they say no, just send a letter to BMWNA informing them you will seek Lemon Law actions. This was they have no choice to but deal with it.
If you choose another X3 that is up to you, but at least this way it up to you!:thumbup:

As of the day I hired the attorney and picked up my car from the 3rd dealer I haven't talked with BMW anyone. Are you saying that I was talking to BMWNA on this web site? Are you also saying that BMW never installed the Oct. software on your X#? Mine was installed and it made it worse. How do I know if it was as you guys are sayin "bricked"?

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 07:58 AM
El-Sea,

I think your safe since this site is not run or owned by BMW.

However, try to keep your identity anonymous by not divulging key information as BMWNA does have a service they call "Vatkens" that scans BMW websites.

It is a service designed to help, but in light of the money at risk with all these faulty cars its only human nature to use whatever information is at their disposal to gain the upper hand.


As far as the SIB updates. Who knows at this point. I have yet to get a straight answer since BMWNA is not communicating to its clients, and that is the majority of the problem.

If anything BMWNA has brought this on themselves by their lack of proper communication.

The key to my suggestions are to let you make the choice that is best for you with legal advice, not what is best for BMWNA.

A good lawyer will help weed out all the BS and get to the heart of the matter.

Good Luck.

Andrew*Debbie
02-20-2008, 08:17 AM
How do I know if it was as you guys are sayin "bricked"?

Bricked is an engineering term for a failed firmware update.

A bricked DME is useless. Same as if someone replaced your DME with a brick. Your car wouldn't even start.

viii_ball
02-20-2008, 09:48 AM
However, try to keep your identity anonymous by not divulging key information as BMWNA does have a service they call "Vatkens" that scans BMW websites.

When I called BMWNA, they actually gave me a human's name for Vatkens. He had already logged a case based on posting my experience here.

viii_ball
02-20-2008, 09:58 AM
In my experience, most SA's/mechanics sincerely try to help you but they're only human. My approach is to always help them help me by narrowing down the specific parameters/symptoms of the problem as much as possible and to make sure they're consistent and repeatable during a test drive/demonstration. If you can easily prove your complaint then it's easier for them to help. Once the SA/mechanic agrees with you that somethings not right, then it becomes their obligation to fix it even if a fix isn't immediately available.

I took the Service Manager and his shop foreman for a test drive and was able to consistently repeat all 5 issues I experience with the AT in my 2008 X3. After the test drive I constructed an email outling the problem with the explanation as given to me by the mechanic, asking for confirmation of what I understood. Here is the email I sent and two weeks later have not received a confirmation, just an acknowledgment of my email.

As others have posted, BMW is not "agreeing" that there is a problem, as you can tell from the "justifications" given below. And this is leading to a lot of our frustration.

***************************
Dear SM:

Thank you for your time last night. Could you share with your shop foreman (sorry his name escapes me) the information below and have him verify that what I experience with the transmission of the X3 is explained as he did last night.

Lack of immediate throttle response - this is an electronically controlled transmission (as opposed to a cable) and the brain needs a second or so to think and send an instruction to the transmission for a response

Lack of acceleration or feel of not getting out of the way during corner or turn (binding feeling) - this is the stability control taking over and not allowing the car to accelerate so that the driver does not experience under or over steer

Feeling every gear change as the car up shifts - BMW engineers their cars so that the drivers "feel" the car. They could program this out but its a conscious choice to give a feel to the vehicle

Hard shifting and binding feel when in traffic - BMW has a 1-2 1-2 transmission lock that if it senses consecutive shifts from 1st gear to 2nd, back to 1st and into 2nd it will lock into 2nd gear as a way to "save fuel" during stop and go traffic.

Binding and noticeable down shifting when rolling to a stop - this is a characteristic of the AWD. You feel things because the front transmission mechanisms are still turning.

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 10:22 AM
When I called BMWNA, they actually gave me a human's name for Vatkens. He had already logged a case based on posting my experience here.

8 Ball "Vatkens" = customer service. Not to dredge this up again, but Vatkens is code for their customer service folks.

They are BMW employee(s) but not employee.

I got a female when I asked for "Vatkens". :)

Glad you could replicate the issues.

Are those the explanations the shop foreman gave you?

The answer to the "Throttle Response" scares me as an acceptable response since accident avoidance is based on split second timing, and there is no hi end vehicle on the market Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, etc... that would say our cars are great because they react slowly or after the fact.

If anything based on current CPU technology--they should react faster, not slower.


The AWD response is not acceptable either since none of the other BMW AWD's do this. Ask him to replicate that in a 5 series AWD (different tranny).

Feeling gear shifts. Again ask them to replicate that in another AWD that doesn't have the GM6 tranny. Won't happen..smooth as butter upshifting.

Binding during down shift. Funny all the AWD's I had prior to the BMW and the other non GM6 AWD's don't do this either.


I won't pretend to know the other parts well enough to comment.

AzNMpower32
02-20-2008, 10:50 AM
Like I've said before, those explanations are bs. I wonder how severe it must be......seriously it can't be "normal". :dunno:

doubledeclutch
02-20-2008, 11:12 AM
The Porsche Cayenne had a hesitation problem. It pissed allot of owners off, and allot didn't care, but it turns out it was just how the car was designed. On the facelifted version, you can escape the problem completely only if you are in sport mode.

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 12:03 PM
The Porsche Cayenne had a hesitation problem. It pissed allot of owners off, and allot didn't care, but it turns out it was just how the car was designed. On the facelifted version, you can escape the problem completely only if you are in sport mode.


DD the problem is that the explanations are sweeping generalizations to the BMW line. Not this one vehicle, I have heard on more than several occasions from my shop foreman to many others across the nation (via Bimmefest posts) that BMW's are designed to "Feel" the upshift.

Yet when I drive any of the loaners that don't have the GM6 trannsmission this "Feel' does not occur.

And it's not just me with my one year experience of BMW but multiple well respected posters that see the same flaw in the explanations.

Hence the cry of Achhhhooooo (BS)

HT417
02-20-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't think I can say it much better than EE did below but I'll add a couple of my own comments FWIW.

As others have posted, BMW is not "agreeing" that there is a problem, as you can tell from the "justifications" given below. And this is leading to a lot of our frustration.

I definitely see your frustration and I can see why he doesn't want to "confirm" the BS below. I'm extremely fortunate not to have to deal with that and wish everybody luck with getting it resolved. I don't mean to make you guys have to rehash it all again, I just can't keep all the details of everybody's case straight in my head and just thought I'd throw out something that might help.

#3 - I kind of agree with. I bought the BMW for a sporty ride as long as doesn't spill drinks shifting in Drive. My current one shifts so smooth I imagine myself in a Buick.

#5 - is absolutely the biggest crock I've ever heard. If that's the case why are downshifts in Manual nearly imperceptable?

***************************
Lack of immediate throttle response - this is an electronically controlled transmission (as opposed to a cable) and the brain needs a second or so to think and send an instruction to the transmission for a response

Lack of acceleration or feel of not getting out of the way during corner or turn (binding feeling) - this is the stability control taking over and not allowing the car to accelerate so that the driver does not experience under or over steer

Feeling every gear change as the car up shifts - BMW engineers their cars so that the drivers "feel" the car. They could program this out but its a conscious choice to give a feel to the vehicle

Hard shifting and binding feel when in traffic - BMW has a 1-2 1-2 transmission lock that if it senses consecutive shifts from 1st gear to 2nd, back to 1st and into 2nd it will lock into 2nd gear as a way to "save fuel" during stop and go traffic.

Binding and noticeable down shifting when rolling to a stop - this is a characteristic of the AWD. You feel things because the front transmission mechanisms are still turning.

matti
02-20-2008, 01:40 PM
I think I have a solution. As soon as the buyout on my lease is reasonably close to market value, I'm ditching this thing. I'll try my luck with another mfg. There's lots of them out there.:)

x3ml
02-20-2008, 02:07 PM
I think I have a solution. As soon as the buyout on my lease is reasonably close to market value, I'm ditching this thing. I'll try my luck with another mfg. There's lots of them out there.:)

Hey matti, that is NOT a "solution", but you have paid good money to learn a lesson. For me, I paid a premium car price and for over a year, the SD is unusable, the ride in D is bad 50% of the time. Anyway I looked at it, I paid good money for a bad return, and no one can compensate me the years' bad experience. (and counting)

One thing I notice though nobody seems to have mentioned, under similar situation, one day it seems shifting better than the other for no apparent reason.

HT417
02-20-2008, 02:40 PM
One thing I notice though nobody seems to have mentioned, under similar situation, one day it seems shifting better than the other for no apparent reason.

I agree and I meant to mention that in another post. It always seems to shift slightly different, even in Manual mode.

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 02:55 PM
Mine is at its best in warm weather, and its worst in cold.

Terry J. Harris
02-20-2008, 04:07 PM
I'm with you ML. While the "lease" approach was more affordable up front (and my first ever lease of a vehicle), I fully expected to buy my X3 at the lease end, and keep the X3 for many, many years. I drove my first BMW for 16+ years. I have been driving my second BMW for 5 years and have no plans at this point to rid myself of it. But for my erratic transmission performance with this X3, I have little to no doubt I would have kept it. The notion of leasing with no practical reason/option for buying the vehicle I've come to know over the term of the lease is disappointing, at best.

I think others of us have been discussing the erratic or intermittent nature of this performance problem. Just today again, after almost 2 weeks without it happening, I experienced one of those very brief bursts of unintended acceleration in D mode - very brief, but noticeable nonetheless. The car otherwise has driven fine today. Go figure. Again, another reminder out of nowhere that I shouldn't trust the thing.

viii_ball
02-20-2008, 04:23 PM
after almost 2 weeks without it happening, I experienced one of those very brief bursts of unintended acceleration in D mode - very brief, but noticeable nonetheless.

I am pretty sure I am jinxing myself here but moments of unintended acceleration is one feature that my AT has yet to exhibit. I guess you paid more for your X3 as I am sure its "supposed to do that".

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 04:25 PM
The unpredictable behavior is what makes it so dangerous. Just when you think, "Hey its finally adapted to my driving" it does something unexpected.

It's supposed to be a vehicle designed to get you out of trouble not into it.

Maybe they should make them all MT's, or maybe just maybe use a transmission that they know works.

el-sea
02-20-2008, 05:47 PM
I agree and I meant to mention that in another post. It always seems to shift slightly different, even in Manual mode.
Check the outside temp next time. Mine is very sensitive to freezing temps and really acts up. I didn't even realize it untill I saw it on this thread.

el-sea
02-20-2008, 05:49 PM
Mine is at its best in warm weather, and its worst in cold.

oops. just saw your response. ditto with mine.

el-sea
02-20-2008, 05:53 PM
I am pretty sure I am jinxing myself here but moments of unintended acceleration is one feature that my AT has yet to exhibit. I guess you paid more for your X3 as I am sure its "supposed to do that".
Unfortunately I am happy to see that I am not the only one with this problem. I have almost rear ended someone 3 different times. This is a danger in LA traffic. Heck any traffic! BMW needs to address the danger of this even if it doesn't replicate itself with a SA in the drivers seat.:thumbdwn:

Andrew*Debbie
02-21-2008, 06:26 AM
I think I have a solution. As soon as the buyout on my lease is reasonably close to market value,

Bad idea. Two reasons:

Do you have a conscience? From what I've read here, this is a safety issue, not a minor inconvenience.

Don't sell your leased X3 to get away from the transmission problem. It will cost you money.

BMWs are rarely worth the lease residual. For 2007 and 2008 the X3 has a heavily subvented lease. It will never be worth residual.

Current residual on a 2 year /24,000mile lease is 76% of MSRP. You can buy an X3 for maybe $1,500 over invoice. A two year old X3 without CPO coverage is not worth 77-80+% of what you paid for it new.

Better idea:

It will be far more cost effective to get a trade assist from BMW. If BMW NA won't do that, look into your state's Lemon Law.

matti
02-21-2008, 01:59 PM
Bad idea. Two reasons:

Do you have a conscience? From what I've read here, this is a safety issue, not a minor inconvenience.

Don't sell your leased X3 to get away from the transmission problem. It will cost you money.

BMWs are rarely worth the lease residual. For 2007 and 2008 the X3 has a heavily subvented lease. It will never be worth residual.

Current residual on a 2 year /24,000mile lease is 76% of MSRP. You can buy an X3 for maybe $1,500 over invoice. A two year old X3 without CPO coverage is not worth 77-80+% of what you paid for it new.

Better idea:

It will be far more cost effective to get a trade assist from BMW. If BMW NA won't do that, look into your state's Lemon Law.

Thats a total BS comment. Why don't you ask BMW if they have a conscience? They designed the damn thing. The 1st software upgrade fixed the left hand stalling problem anyway.

Why the hell would I take a trade assist? That implies I want another BMW. Let me guess, they offer me a $2000 trade assist and just build it into the price anyway. We all know how these things work.

This Canada so things are different. The residual on a 39 mo lease is about 52%. I can break even in the next 6 mos. (I think).

Andrew*Debbie
02-21-2008, 03:24 PM
Thats a total BS comment. Why don't you ask BMW if they have a conscience?


Whoa.

If you are planning to disclose what is up with the car, you have my apology.


Are you going to do to an unsuspecting person exactly what BMW did to you? That is not something I could do with a clear conscience. Maybe that's why I don't sell cars for a living.



Why the hell would I take a trade assist? That implies I want another BMW. Let me guess, they offer me a $2000 trade assist and just build it into the price anyway.
We all know how these things work.


A typical trade assist gets you into a new car with your current lease term and payment. At least it does in the US.
For example if you had 20 months to go at $450/month, you will get a new BMW with 20 month lease at $450 a month.



This Canada so things are different. The residual on a 39 mo lease is about 52%. I can break even in the next 6 mos. (I think).


Sorry, I didn't realize you were not in the US. Does Canada have a Lemon Law?

matti
02-21-2008, 05:48 PM
Whoa.

If you are planning to disclose what is up with the car, you have my apology.


Are you going to do to an unsuspecting person exactly what BMW did to you? That is not something I could do with a clear conscience. Maybe that's why I don't sell cars for a living.


Unless you are offering to buy the vehicle I don't think you have an opinion here. Do you think BMW is going to crush the vehicle if they took it back? It will end up at auction and on another lot the next week. I guess it's buyer beware. The next owner can test drive it and see what they think. It's just annoying to drive now. BMW thinks I'm just "picky" after all. Let's just say I will be rigorously test driving the next vehicle which will NOT be a BMW.

Evlengr
02-21-2008, 06:23 PM
Unless you are offering to buy the vehicle I don't think you have an opinion here. Do you think BMW is going to crush the vehicle if they took it back? It will end up at auction and on another lot the next week. I guess it's buyer beware. The next owner can test drive it and see what they think. It's just annoying to drive now. BMW thinks I'm just "picky" after all. Let's just say I will be rigorously test driving the next vehicle which will NOT be a BMW.


Matti as everyone knows I am no fan of BMWNA atm, but beating up on A/D is not the answer. He may have simply misunderstood your predicament because of your location.

On the other hand if you give it back to BMW they have a history on the car's service background and have the obligation to disclose it to a future buyer under "Due Diligence".

If they don't they are even more despicable than I can even credit to them under this situation.

Direct your energy towards BMWNA. Or in your case BMWCA. Report it to the Canadian equivalent of the Better Business Bureau, NHTSA, etc... talk to an attorney. I'm sure they already have on their part.

Personally I think BMWNA should publicly apologize and also buy the vehicles back at the fair market value of when the problem was first reported.:slap:

That will not happen or they would have done a recall by now.

In my opinion I find it extremely hard to believe that BMW did not know that this could happen and that it can('t) be fixed or every vehicle would(n't) work. Meaning this all boils down to money. In doing some simple math with just the people that are unhappy on this website you are talking roughly 3 million US dollars. Not to count all the folks that will come forward the minute this would hit the news.

I had a boss that used to say do you want justice or do you want it solved?:banghead:

Let's get it solved then worry about justice.

matti
02-21-2008, 07:28 PM
Perhaps I felt like I got rubbed the wrong way. My apologies to AD. Life is short and I don't have time to chase BMW and really don't need the frustration. Since BMW refuses to comment we do not know if there will be a fix forthcoming. I'm not chasing my tail for another 2 years. It's time to move on. If others wish to fight the battle then go ahead. Some people will make crusades out of these things. There is a guy in the office talking to a lawyer because the wheel keeps braking on his $500 baby stroller! I've got better things to do like focus on my new (to me) Porsche.

As I've said before, the tranny/throttle is about 95% now but it's still not pleasant vehicle to drive in the city and I can't accept it. I can't accept that for $700/mo.

Evlengr
02-21-2008, 11:10 PM
Matti, I'm glad that you can keep a different attitude than me.

Me I think exposing a life threatening and very costly lie is a responsibilty we have as owners.

I now have my X3 back from the water leak problem that was my fault due to poor choice of an stereo installer, but that is another story.

The difference between the 528xi (the loaner I had) with the ZP something something trannsmission is unmistakably better than the X3.

The 328xi were jsut as good, and the best part is the Service Manager swears the trannsmission on the 328xi is different from the X3 so of course it drives different. Lol

This vehicle ( the 528xi) had 127 miles on it so had no time to "Adapt" to anyone's driving style, yet it glided through shifts up and down in normal "D" mode like there were no gear changes.

I have taken up a "Crusade" for the obvious reasons I have stated before, but I have taken it up also because I detest liars.

And to tell people its their fault for the past year and not to admit there is a problem doesn't get any bigger as a lie.

Look up X3 trannsmission problems and you will see this problem is more wide spread than this site.

kjboyd
02-21-2008, 11:34 PM
some dealers really are just stupid. I was once told by a honda dealer (this was LONG LONG ago when i was looking to replace the 71 2002 and still really really young) that the Civic I was looking at had 4 wheel disc brakes... when you could clearly see drums through the wheel covers, which i was told also were alloys.

I was also told that the sunroof in my 06 X3, though a slightly different issue, was SUPPOSED to make noise and rattles as it was "designed that way" by the engineers.

Why can't they just fess up and either a: admit they don't have the answer instead of making one up, or b: admit there is a problem.

kjboyd
02-21-2008, 11:37 PM
delete

STE92VE
02-23-2008, 07:37 AM
Interesting point of information....It seems not all 2007 X3 models were built with the 6AT. The ones that go to Australia have the 5AT..:dunno:
http://www.bmw.com.au/scripts/main.asp?PageID=11975
Vehicle 2007 BMW X3 si
Price $83,000 (Price excludes statutory charges)
Kilometres 1,578
Body 4 door Wagon
Colour Monaco Blue Metallic
Trim Sand Beige Lethernevada
Transmission 5 speed Automatic
Engine 6 cylinder Unleaded Multi-point injected 3.0L (2979cc)

LMC
02-23-2008, 11:03 AM
Interesting point of information....It seems not all 2007 X3 models were built with the 6AT. The ones that go to Australia have the 5AT...


Or a poorly-informed car salesman... let's see....which to believe? :rofl:

jmcbmw
02-24-2008, 05:05 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to approach the AT hesitation issue on first visit? I've been noticing the problem since about 3K miles (just hit 10K) and am finally taking it in because the battery light flashes every morning as well. I want them to re-program the software without telling me I'm imagining something. I'll be taking the car to New Century in Alhambra CA. What is the correct service bulletin number? Is it true that the Jan 08 update was pulled? My issue isn't as severe as some of the other postings and does not happen when in SD mode. It's still bothersome and the lag can be potentially dangerous. Thanks all!

Evlengr
02-25-2008, 07:14 AM
Does anyone have advice on how to approach the AT hesitation issue on first visit? I've been noticing the problem since about 3K miles (just hit 10K) and am finally taking it in because the battery light flashes every morning as well. I want them to re-program the software without telling me I'm imagining something. I'll be taking the car to New Century in Alhambra CA. What is the correct service bulletin number? Is it true that the Jan 08 update was pulled? My issue isn't as severe as some of the other postings and does not happen when in SD mode. It's still bothersome and the lag can be potentially dangerous. Thanks all!

Here ya go:


The most recent SIB update is (version 27.2.1)
The last SIB update did not work and was pulled back. In one reported case it did more damage than good.
Have the SA take you out in a NON GM6 transmission BMW such as a X5 or 5 series sedan AT, then have him/her take a spin in your X3. There's a big difference.
Whatever they tell you: It's not your driving style, and the transmission "adaptive" feature is not the culprit. They have many "Canned" excuses (seems all dealers say the same thing which makes it equally more suspicious that BMWNA knows they have a problem.)
Cold weather seems to bring out the worst in the GM6 transmission.
If you feel this is a serious problem as many do...report it to the NHSTA under recall and complaints. The more that are filed the sooner BMWNA will have to own up and fix this right. They ahve had over a year to correct this mistake and it is not surfacing in the 08 models.


Please post your experience with your dealer, SA, and BMW. All of us would love to put this to rest sooner than later.

pilotman
02-25-2008, 07:41 AM
Here ya go:


The most recent SIB update is (version 27.2.1)
The last SIB update did not work and was pulled back. In one reported case it did more damage than good.
Have the SA take you out in a NON GM6 transmission BMW such as a X5 or 5 series sedan AT, then have him/her take a spin in your X3. There's a big difference.
Whatever they tell you: It's not your driving style, and the transmission "adaptive" feature is not the culprit. They have many "Canned" excuses (seems all dealers say the same thing which makes it equally more suspicious that BMWNA knows they have a problem.)
Cold weather seems to bring out the worst in the GM6 transmission.
If you feel this is a serious problem as many do...report it to the NHSTA under recall and complaints. The more that are filed the sooner BMWNA will have to own up and fix this right. They ahve had over a year to correct this mistake and it is not surfacing in the 08 models.


Please post your experience with your dealer, SA, and BMW. All of us would love to put this to rest sooner than later.


Did you get rid of your X3 yet? I am really surprised you are even considering another BMW based upon your experience.

Evlengr
02-25-2008, 08:12 AM
Did you get rid of your X3 yet? I am really surprised you are even considering another BMW based upon your experience.

If they buy it back I won't.

If they trade it out I don't have a choice do I? Since the only real issue is the AT tranny it seems an MT will circumvent this once and for all.

It's like they handed a sheet to all the dealers with little check boxes telling them what to say in the event this comes up. I feel bad for the dealers since they are on the front lines.

In the interim I don't want other owners getting the same BS answers I got. And the GM6 AT seems to be the common denominator in this whole mess.


IMO they (BMWNA) have been stalling and figure people will eventually give up. I won't!

viii_ball
02-25-2008, 10:32 AM
If you feel this is a serious problem as many do...report it to the NHSTA under recall and complaints.

I went to the NHSTA web site to post the complaint but for 2008 they do not have all the BMW models loaded so I am unable to register via the web site.

Evlengr
02-25-2008, 03:28 PM
I went to the NHSTA web site to post the complaint but for 2008 they do not have all the BMW models loaded so I am unable to register via the web site.

I would suggest filing under 2007, since the build date was probably 2007.

viii_ball
02-26-2008, 05:42 AM
I would suggest filing under 2007, since the build date was probably 2007.

My build date is 9/07.

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 06:59 AM
I have contacted the NHSTA and asked them to update their system to allow for complaints to be filed against the 2008 models.

I will post what they recommend if you care to wait. In the meantime post with the BBB.

scholzh
02-26-2008, 08:55 PM
My 07 X3 is in the shop for the third time getting its latest software update for the transmission problem. This time they also found a leaking seal or gasket. They've had it for 3 days now.

I love the car other than these transmission problems. Question is, has the problem truly been fixed in the newest 08 models? If I order one, will it be ok? I've spent the evening test driving other SUVs and can't find one that compares.

AzNMpower32
02-26-2008, 09:02 PM
My 07 X3 is in the shop for the third time getting its latest software update for the transmission problem. This time they also found a leaking seal or gasket. They've had it for 3 days now.

I love the car other than these transmission problems. Question is, has the problem truly been fixed in the newest 08 models? If I order one, will it be ok? I've spent the evening test driving other SUVs and can't find one that compares.
The newest X3s do not appear to have issues. Some '08s are affected. The cutoff date is 11/07 production. I drove a 11/07 build X3 as a loaner and it had no unusual symptoms. Others with later build dates seem to have no complaints as well.

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 09:55 PM
Azn I really hate to contradict you but driving one of the newer X3's for a day is not a fair review of the transmission problem.

After driving a 5 series for a week I can tell you there is a HUGE difference in shifting. Some would even say that is not a fair comparison or enough time.

Some people have had their vehicles several thousand miles before this surfaced.

In fact a good number of the people that are currently unhappy with their X3's were originally nay-sayers to the problem.

Plus I recall when you drove the 08 it was relatively warmer weather and the problem really shows itself at 32 degrees and below.

There seems to be the same ratio of bad 08's as 07's. The big difference is that there has been a huge drop in X3 sales so the numbers can't be tabulated yet.

There was a poll specifically referring to the 07/08 transition before this thread was consolidated that showed the number of complaintants is growing not diminishing.

I like many of the features and functions of the X3 as well, but the transmission issue has not been fixed. There are not any other real competitors with consideration to handling, but if you are to order an AT go in with both eyes open. The transmission issue has not been fixed or they would apply it to all the outstanding vehicles that have voiced their dissatisfaction.

jmcbmw
02-27-2008, 01:57 AM
Thanks to those who gave me advice. I went in today and described my transmisions hesitation/surging issue. I did mention SIB 27.2.1 as recommended). When the car was ready the SA told me that they could not duplicate the problem but did the software update anyway. I was happy that they did not give me any hassle and did it anyway as I did not have a chance to go on a test drive. Picked up the car and I drove off and IMMEDIATELY noticed how much smoother the transmission was for acceleration and deceleration. Everything. I just couldn't believe it all the way home. It's like a different car and I feel like it drives the way a Bimmer should now! Feels almost like a 328xi now which was the intention to begin with.

Interestingly, my service document states the following:

PERFORM SIB 24 08 07. PROGRAM EGS. D.C. 23 00 38 61 00 UPON COMPLETION. PERFORM GT1 TEST, CHECK DME SOFTWARE. FOUND SOFTWARE LEVEL 7567609, IT IS BELOW 7585570. PROGRAM DME. D.C. 10 42 03 71 00. PERFORM GT1 TEST AND SET STEERING ANGLE SENSOR.

Not sure what this all means exactly but it appears that they did not do SIB 27.2.1. Is this the SIB that was pulled? If not, maybe it's a new fix.

All I know is that it drives great now. If anything whatsoever changes, I will post it.

Thanks.:)

Evlengr
02-27-2008, 07:20 AM
It can be confusing but the SIB is correct the 27.2.1 is a version of that SIB. Take liberal use of all portions of shifting: SD, D, and M modes. Your vehilce is now back in learning mode.

Your dealer has given the most detailed description of services I have seen to date. The DME and EGS are the critical components in correcting the shifting problem.

Since you are in CA you won't be subjected to colder weather, but if you go to the mountains at all pay special attention to its behavior in cold weather as this seems to be the remaining weak link in the tranny.

Glad to see it has changed for you.

x3ml
02-27-2008, 08:15 AM
Azn I really hate to contradict you but driving one of the newer X3's for a day is not a fair review of the transmission problem.


Evl, I totally agree with you. I can't believe how I would have bought my x3 after 2 test drive of the demos (in Nov 06). As I have said, one day I drive it, all seems better but another day the worst came back. Its like going to a casino, no kidding. Also, problems with cold weather doesn't mean it will get better after the car has warmed up, it stays bad for the whole trip (up to an hour). Its worst in slow city driving or bumper to bumper traffic. And, it gives you unpredictable jolts every once a while. Can someone defines what's a defect? No one, I mean no one can make such uncomfortable shifting car and say that its designed to be like that. Its unpredictable, inconsistent, its a waste of such an otherwise perfect car for me.

I remember when they test drive the car with me, they tried to drive it as gentle as it can be, because when you drives it aggressively, it really brings out the worst of it.

I can almost sense that Vatkins is on the sideline ready to settle with you Evl, even if they do, please don't leave us behind! Please!!

Evlengr
02-27-2008, 08:52 AM
Evl, I totally agree with you. I can't believe how I would have bought my x3 after 2 test drive of the demos (in Nov 06). As I have said, one day I drive it, all seems better but another day the worst came back. Its like going to a casino, no kidding. Also, problems with cold weather doesn't mean it will get better after the car has warmed up, it stays bad for the whole trip (up to an hour). Its worst in slow city driving or bumper to bumper traffic. And, it gives you unpredictable jolts every once a while. Can someone defines what's a defect? No one, I mean no one can make such uncomfortable shifting car and say that its designed to be like that. Its unpredictable, inconsistent, its a waste of such an otherwise perfect car for me.

I remember when they test drive the car with me, they tried to drive it as gentle as it can be, because when you drives it aggressively, it really brings out the worst of it.

I can almost sense that Vatkins is on the sideline ready to settle with you Evl, even if they do, please don't leave us behind! Please!!

I think "Vatkens" is in the corner relaying this information as we speak.

Actually to be blunt I asked right up front for a Trade Assist and was told that there is nothing wrong with my vehicle and that I would need to contact BMW customer service.

I really can't see how they can say it with a straight face after driving other BMW's for extended periods of time.

I am letting other people deal with them now since I gave them an oppurtunity to play nice not three strikes but several innings (six times in the shop with incremental changes means there is a problem).

This is not one person that will go away until they solve it for all folks.:thumbup:

AzNMpower32
02-27-2008, 09:46 AM
Well, given that it hasn't been that long since the 11/07 builds starting rolling out, I'm not surprised to see that about half the '08s report this issue because think about it, it's only been 3 months since November builds started rolling out. The '08 model year started in mid August, so it's been an equivalent 3 months between 8/07 and 11/07. Thus, there are probably slightly more pre-fix '08s floating around on the roads than post-fix X3s.

Time will tell whether the new ones have the issue. If the 4/08 build X3s still have a problem, then we can say nothing was rectified for '08.

You've really got to understand that BMW is working on it with diligence. It's not easy to pair new software to a car that uses older electronics. Clearly BMW hasn't gotten it quite right, but it's kind of like if BMW put iDrive on the X3 and the stuff didn't work out. BMW had to try a lot of times to fix the creaking driver's door frame before anything worked, well, sort of. Plus, they've got a zillion other issues on the other models.

x3ml
02-27-2008, 09:56 AM
Actually to be blunt I asked right up front for a Trade Assist and was told that there is nothing wrong with my vehicle and that I would need to contact BMW customer service.

I really can't see how they can say it with a straight face after driving other BMW's for extended periods of time.

There is nothing wrong with the car, if your are a Martian who has just landed his UFO, or you travelled from the 1930's via a time machine.

BMWx307
02-27-2008, 09:58 AM
My 2007 x3 built at 08/06 with auto trans. I had same problems what you guy have, and did upgrade software, but problems were still there and was geting worse. After waited two weeks got new DME from Germany, replaced DME and adjusted torque. have 800 KM on it now, all problem gone, trans shift smooth and no heist problem any more even in conner turn. gas milleage in city is about 12.5L/100 (in canada). hope it realy fixed this time.

x3ml
02-27-2008, 10:16 AM
My 2007 x3 built at 08/06 with auto trans. I had same problems what you guy have, and did upgrade software, but problems were still there and was geting worse. After waited two weeks got new DME from Germany, replaced DME and adjusted torque. have 800 KM on it now, all problem gone, trans shift smooth and no heist problem any more even in conner turn. gas milleage in city is about 12.5L/100 (in canada). hope it realy fixed this time.

Am I hearing right?!? All problems gone! Everything's perfect? So new DME unit is the solution. Looks like the old DME just doesn't have enough memory or something. Wow!! Wow!! So can you feel the shifts, no more back and forth motions like riding a horse?!?

jmcbmw
02-27-2008, 12:22 PM
I will keep closely evaluating the updated software as it's still apparently in learning mode. FYI, my build date was 9/06.

Evlengr
02-29-2008, 06:47 AM
While I wait for the powers that be to sort out the paperwork over this mess they call a transmission, has anyone heard of another attempt at a newer SIB?

After trying to release one that ( was suspposed to be the "final" fix) by one admission fried an owners DME controller and now we have heard nothing more.

I now know of over a half dozen people that have had their vehicles bought back (not trade assist, big difference) and another half dozen that have been offered trade assist because of this problem (due to legal reasons I can't discuss my personal ventures in this). Are they just buying them back at this juncture instead of fixing them?

Or, have they just given up, and kissed off the remainder of (70+ on this website alone) people that have voiced discontent?

awhitney07x3
02-29-2008, 08:50 AM
I will keep closely evaluating the updated software as it's still apparently in learning mode. FYI, my build date was 9/06.
I have a 9/06 also and had the software patch installed. The shifting was nice for about a week. Now it is even worse than before. The service manager drove my car home to check it out and agreed that there was a shifting problem. When she consulted BMWNA, they told her in no uncertain terms that there was NO PROBLEM and they would do NOTHING for us. I think she is almost as frustrated as we are.

LMC
02-29-2008, 11:04 AM
My theory is that what is really wrong with the X3 AT is the U.S. legal system.

Just a theory...

:angel: ;)

awhitney07x3
02-29-2008, 11:12 AM
Folks:
I called BMWNA today to officially complain about the dangerous transmission in my 2007 (09/06 build) X3. After I stated the issues, I was able to get the customer relations rep's name and extension, but he refused to give me a case number and stated that case numbers are only for internal use. They also would not send me an acknowledgment (I asked for an email) that I had called.

I will send a certified letter to BMWNA next with that information included. I filed a complaint with the BBB today also.

Maybe we should record our calls to them for "training purposes". Isn't that what they say in the greeting?

Evlengr, thanks for your advice.

Evlengr
02-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Happy to help.

Seems like "Vatkens" is listening, and reporting back to mothership BMWNA.

More people than not are getting the cold shoulder treatment by BMWNA. As my parents would say, "Looks like they are circling the wagons".

Remember, document everything you communicate to the dealer or BMWNA.

The value owed to you ---- should you get a trade assist or buy back is when you first officially reported the problem. That extra 1500 miles of waiting for the "adpative transmission" to work could be an extra $1500 of depreciation.

So the longer you wait to report it,(hence the stalling techniques being used) the less it's worth.

Snow-man
02-29-2008, 05:51 PM
Hello All. I wanted to thank all of you and your resident activist type. After taking some more test drives and speaking to a co-worker that has an X3 with the faulty automatic transmission I decided against spending $42,000 on a vehicle that is more unpredictable than my Vista based laptop. To those of you that may be getting rid of your albatross I can recommend a replacement that also has full service and a loaner program with very low financing. The RDX. There is no turbo lag, and after an additional $2,000 customizing the suspension it now handles better, is less troublesome, and still $8,000 cheaper than the X3. Thanks again for the excellent advice and with the exception of that one character your polite feedback. I only wish the Acura website people were as informative as all of you. Best of luck on getting things right.:thumbup:auf wiedersehen:)

Coffeeman
03-01-2008, 10:48 AM
I've been watching this thread from the beginning. My wife drives an '08 X3 with auto. She has never really complained about shifting, and I rarely drive the X3.

For the past two weeks, I have driven her X3 daily, and I have found the transmission to exhibit most, if not all of the weird shifting that has been reported here. The vehicle is not a pleasure to drive.

The dealer claims that it has the "latest" software, and that it must "adapt". The X3 has about 6k miles on it, so I believe that it should be done "adapting".

I am disappointed that BMWUSA seems to have adopted a policy of ignoring this defect in the X3. So much so that I have decided not to lease an X5 for myself, and instead have decided to take a break from BMW.

STE92VE
03-01-2008, 03:21 PM
I've been watching this thread from the beginning. My wife drives an '08 X3 with auto. She has never really complained about shifting, and I rarely drive the X3.



Would you mind sharing the production date of your X3?

Coffeeman
03-01-2008, 03:43 PM
Would you mind sharing the production date of your X3?

Production date is 09/2007

awhitney07x3
03-03-2008, 10:22 AM
I took the Service Manager and his shop foreman for a test drive and was able to consistently repeat all 5 issues I experience with the AT in my 2008 X3. After the test drive I constructed an email outling the problem with the explanation as given to me by the mechanic, asking for confirmation of what I understood. Here is the email I sent and two weeks later have not received a confirmation, just an acknowledgment of my email.

As others have posted, BMW is not "agreeing" that there is a problem, as you can tell from the "justifications" given below. And this is leading to a lot of our frustration.

***************************
Dear SM:

Thank you for your time last night. Could you share with your shop foreman (sorry his name escapes me) the information below and have him verify that what I experience with the transmission of the X3 is explained as he did last night.

Lack of immediate throttle response - this is an electronically controlled transmission (as opposed to a cable) and the brain needs a second or so to think and send an instruction to the transmission for a response

Lack of acceleration or feel of not getting out of the way during corner or turn (binding feeling) - this is the stability control taking over and not allowing the car to accelerate so that the driver does not experience under or over steer

Feeling every gear change as the car up shifts - BMW engineers their cars so that the drivers "feel" the car. They could program this out but its a conscious choice to give a feel to the vehicle

Hard shifting and binding feel when in traffic - BMW has a 1-2 1-2 transmission lock that if it senses consecutive shifts from 1st gear to 2nd, back to 1st and into 2nd it will lock into 2nd gear as a way to "save fuel" during stop and go traffic.

Binding and noticeable down shifting when rolling to a stop - this is a characteristic of the AWD. You feel things because the front transmission mechanisms are still turning.

We took our 09/06 2007 X3 in for the 6th time today, and an engineer from BMWNA drove it. Like others before us (above), we were told "that is the way this X3 is supposed to drive". What?!! So, given that there is no problem according to BMW, we are stuck with a dangerous vehicle. The dealer will not offer us a trade assist. And if they say there is no mechanical problem, how can we enforce the Lemon Law? What's it going to take to get BMWNA to do the right thing-- a law suit or a fatality? And how do we know the latter has not happened already?

Evlengr
03-03-2008, 11:29 AM
We took our 09/06 2007 X3 in for the 6th time today, and an engineer from BMWNA drove it. Like others before us (above), we were told "that is the way this X3 is supposed to drive". What?!! So, given that there is no problem according to BMW, we are stuck with a dangerous vehicle. The dealer will not offer us a trade assist. And if they say there is no mechanical problem, how can we enforce the Lemon Law? What's it going to take to get BMWNA to do the right thing-- a law suit or a fatality? And how do we know the latter has not happened already?

If you haven't already. Send a certified return receipt requested to BMWNA corporate explaining your situation, and what you want in return. This way it will be on record that they have been notified and refused or accepted your request.

You don't---call a Lemon Lawyer. They can subpoena any relevant records if they take on your case.

If you haven't already. Send a certified return receipt requested to BMWNA corporate explaining your situation, and what you want in return. This way it will be on record that they have been notified and refused or accepted your request.

It seems to me from the stance that BMWNA is taking that they might as well admit there is a problem since they will not openly address it. In my opinion the are sending out the "Experts" to make sure they have testimony for the lawsuits they know are pending.

At this rate this will end up snow-balling into a "Class-Action" lawsuit if they don't cut their losses soon.

They are starting to think short term rather than the long term ramifications of lost sales. And in today's market and floundering car sales that is "Penny-wise and Pound-foolish".

My original purchase was to be an M class, but due to the reality of family life I got a more "practical" BMW.

This means that ten years down the road when I can get an M class, I'll end up getting a Porsche.

STE92VE
03-03-2008, 11:38 AM
[B]
At this rate this will end up snow-balling into a "Class-Action" lawsuit if they don't cut their losses soon.



Unfortunately, if this issue gets to that point, the only ones who will truly benefit from a Class- Action suit are the lawyers....:thumbdwn:

Evlengr
03-03-2008, 11:55 AM
Unfortunately, if this issue gets to that point, the only ones who will truly benefit from a Class- Action suit are the lawyers....:thumbdwn:

I absolutely agree.

Why not do what is ethically correct and business smart and make it right.

You can't put a price tag on good will and word of mouth.

kjboyd
03-03-2008, 01:13 PM
This is crazy: the "Agent" that took back my car clearly said to me: the paperwork states the reason for the buyback is "transmission issues"... correct? I confirmed. Sadly, I did NOT receive a copy of that particular document.

Why are they denying it now? Especially with all the SIBs floating around out there that clearly show it's a problem. I'm curious, has any one checked the TSB BMW site recently to see if ANY of the SIBs are still listed? www.bmwtis.com.

x3ml
03-03-2008, 02:54 PM
This is crazy: the "Agent" that took back my car clearly said to me: the paperwork states the reason for the buyback is "transmission issues"... correct? I confirmed. Sadly, I did NOT receive a copy of that particular document.

Why are they denying it now? Especially with all the SIBs floating around out there that clearly show it's a problem. I'm curious, has any one checked the TSB BMW site recently to see if ANY of the SIBs are still listed? www.bmwtis.com.

Thanks KJ for dropping by, like your Volvo? Now look, BMW is not really denying there is a problem, but on the other hand, because of legal reasons, they cannot admit there is a problem. For a simple reason, they don't have a fix yet. They want to pretend that this is only a non-safety issue, they want us to accept that shifting is just a bit rough. So it is uncomfortable because it is this or that. Only when they have to do a recall then they will have to say there is a problem.

Just today, I was going a bit fast because of over the freezing temperature. Put on SD in a curve. Then a big jolt came all the sudden as it bents to a slight up slope, my neck hurts, heart pounding, scare the xxxx out of me. Lesson learned, don't risk if you going on a curve, and leave a big margin if you have to start across moving traffic.

kjboyd
03-03-2008, 04:34 PM
yes, BMW IS denying there is a problem. "They all do that", or "it was designed that way" is a denial.
for almost 2 years now SIBs have been coming out "with a software solution." Now, the customers are being told that is IS supposed to be that way. Why try to find a fix for two years and then say, oh, no, sorry, it IS supposed to do that?

and the Volvo is great. I should have done that in the first place after the 1st X3 was taken back.

awhitney07x3
03-03-2008, 06:34 PM
My 2007 x3 built at 08/06 with auto trans. I had same problems what you guy have, and did upgrade software, but problems were still there and was geting worse. After waited two weeks got new DME from Germany, replaced DME and adjusted torque. have 800 KM on it now, all problem gone, trans shift smooth and no heist problem any more even in conner turn. gas milleage in city is about 12.5L/100 (in canada). hope it realy fixed this time.

Dare I ask...Is your X3 still fine?! I hope so.
Is there a particular model number for the new DME?

bitac
03-04-2008, 07:02 PM
My lease will exprie at the end of this month. The end of lease inspection was done two weeks ago. Everything but one tire happened to be fine. I was planing to sign a new lease for X3 2008. Guess what? Today my hubby crashed the car (bmw x3, 2005) - the black ice scenario. The car will require a serious body repair, no obvious mechanical damage. Our insurance co (military) will do an estimation in a few days. My question is: what is the most efficient mode of my actions? Should I repair the car and then return it to the dealer? Or should I return it as is and have the dealer repair it? Am I allowed to do the latter?
Thanks in advance
bitac:thumbdwn:

AzNMpower32
03-04-2008, 07:09 PM
My lease will exprie at the end of this month. The end of lease inspection was done two weeks ago. Everything but one tire happened to be fine. I was planing to sign a new lease for X3 2008. Guess what? Today my hubby crashed the car (bmw x3, 2005) - the black ice scenario. The car will require a serious body repair, no obvious mechanical damage. Our insurance co (military) will do an estimation in a few days. My question is: what is the most efficient mode of my actions? Should I repair the car and then return it to the dealer? Or should I return it as is and have the dealer repair it? Am I allowed to do the latter?
Thanks in advance
bitac:thumbdwn:
This is a tad off-topic, but I think you should repair the vehicle. I'm no expert on leases however. If it is truly serious, try to get the vehicle totalled.

I will say this: if you liked your '05 and given the damage is not too serious, I would consider keeping it. While the new X3s are more mature and faster, the transmission isn't as good as the old 5-speed automatic, even when it does work properly. Of course, if you're going for the 3-pedal, that statement won't apply.

bitac
03-04-2008, 07:13 PM
thanks, never used this site before - that's why off-topic. Thanks anyway

bimmertx
03-04-2008, 08:07 PM
I agree with the earlier post on taking a break from BMW and not going back. We have owned over twelve BMW''s over the past 20 years and the 2007 X3 is the worst BMW out of the lot. They clearly haven't figures our their all wheel drive implementation with the auto transmission. I buy BMW's to enjoy driving and this thing extremely disappoints me. Sports mode is very jerky and I have taken it in twice for the updates, but still it is poor. Regular Drive doen't have enough power and the engine is always at too low of RPM's. $40k for a vehicle you can't stand to drive is not good.

BMW should take these vehicles back and make customers whole. If not, I am done with them. All potential buyers of auto X3's need to re-think buying this vehicle, I would avoid it.

Terry J. Harris
03-04-2008, 11:05 PM
tx sums it up well for many of us.

Today, my '07 X3 did its herky-jerky movement through the lower gears the few times I drove it, pulling/accelerating dis-proportionally at the top end of 1st and 2nd - the complete antithesis of smooth, predictable throttle response. Yet all weekend the car drove almost perfectly. Also today, somewhere between 20 and 30 mph on a flat stretch turning into a slight incline the X3 once again began accelerating on its own - it's as if I pushed down a little more on the gas pedal (which I didn't) and the car accelerates accordingly, up a slight hill no less. Car is smarter than me???? What makes for a weird driving experience, I've now begun this last month to constantly think about and monitor throttle response - it's anything but something I take for granted in this car. And that sucks . . . .

I've considered discontinuing my viewing of this thread, as it only makes me sick in that it reminds me of my car's problem. To that end, I've also stopped driving my X3 unless absolutely necessary due to weather - today it snowed here, as predicted. It's back to my Z3 whenever I can drive it. Hopefully with the season change arriving soon I will be able to park the X3, as it just makes me angry to drive it these days.

Evlengr
03-05-2008, 07:04 AM
tx sums it up well for many of us.

Today, my '07 X3 did its herky-jerky movement through the lower gears the few times I drove it, pulling/accelerating dis-proportionally at the top end of 1st and 2nd - the complete antithesis of smooth, predictable throttle response. Yet all weekend the car drove almost perfectly. Also today, somewhere between 20 and 30 mph on a flat stretch turning into a slight incline the X3 once again began accelerating on its own - it's as if I pushed down a little more on the gas pedal (which I didn't) and the car accelerates accordingly, up a slight hill no less. Car is smarter than me???? What makes for a weird driving experience, I've now begun this last month to constantly think about and monitor throttle response - it's anything but something I take for granted in this car. And that sucks . . . .

I've considered discontinuing my viewing of this thread, as it only makes me sick in that it reminds me of my car's problem. To that end, I've also stopped driving my X3 unless absolutely necessary due to weather - today it snowed here, as predicted. It's back to my Z3 whenever I can drive it. Hopefully with the season change arriving soon I will be able to park the X3, as it just makes me angry to drive it these days.

Terry (and others like this),

I don't think ignoring the problem will make it go away. Yes it makes me furious to read these posts, but it also validates what we all know. This vehicle is not a BMW. Buying a BMW is supposed to be an experience that you relish not regret.
I was looking forward to the "Fall" winding through the Blue Ridge Mountains, now I worry if the car is going to take off and rear end the driver in front of me or stall while merging onto the Beltway.

I make a good income, but I don't make enough to put a $40k+ vehicle on the back burner. If you are having a problem with the transmission send a certified return receipt letter to BMWNA and contact the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Protection of your respective State (or New Jersey), NHTSA, BBB, etc...
BMWNA is trying to bury this. If enough owners put the pressure on they can't ignore it for ever (letters and documents can be subpoened to prove it's not an isolated incident).

"Vatkens" if your listening (tell your bosses) I won't give up until this is properly addressed.

Coffeeman
03-05-2008, 08:48 AM
I agree with the earlier post on taking a break from BMW and not going back. We have owned over twelve BMW''s over the past 20 years and the 2007 X3 is the worst BMW out of the lot. They clearly haven't figures our their all wheel drive implementation with the auto transmission. I buy BMW's to enjoy driving and this thing extremely disappoints me. Sports mode is very jerky and I have taken it in twice for the updates, but still it is poor. Regular Drive doen't have enough power and the engine is always at too low of RPM's. $40k for a vehicle you can't stand to drive is not good.

BMW should take these vehicles back and make customers whole. If not, I am done with them. All potential buyers of auto X3's need to re-think buying this vehicle, I would avoid it.

If enough potential BMW buyers "take a break", then maybe the powers that be in Montvale will begin to take notice. It is pretty well known that the sales and marketing departments drive most corporations, and I believe that BMW is no different with respect to this. If ignoring the X3's transmission problems convinces enough buyers to look elsewhere, this should eventually get BMWUSA's attention.

STE92VE
03-05-2008, 09:39 AM
If enough potential BMW buyers "take a break", then maybe the powers that be in Montvale will begin to take notice.

I don't think Montvale is the solution. Can I suggest making a call to Dr. Norbert Reithofer, CEO of BMW. This is what someone did when they had issues with the fuel pumps on the first 335i....
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53742&highlight=norbert+reithofer

Don't know why I didn't think of this before....hope it helps.

matti
03-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Here ya go:
Cold weather seems to bring out the worst in the GM6 transmission.

Very true. It shifts hard when it is cold (less than 32F)

Evlengr
03-09-2008, 12:37 AM
Gotta' Love a 4 wheel utility vehicle that doesn't work properly in the winter months.

HT417
03-09-2008, 07:00 AM
Very true. It shifts hard when it is cold (less than 32F)

While I think I remember the shifts being held longer on my 12/07, my 09/07 shifts the same all of the time regardless of temperature, even down in the low 20's. If mine's an aberration, it's one that I'm not complaining about.

My only annoyance so far at 800+ miles, is its tendency to hold any gear longer if you're climbing even the slightest incline. Mix in a little additional throttle and it'll go 4K and beyond before even thinking about shifting. But since it's consistent and predictable, I just consider this part of it's sporting nature and when it bothers me I just move the lever left and pull. The 12/07 did this too.

hoopics
03-09-2008, 08:09 PM
I know someone in the market for an X3, so when I visited the dealer yesterday looking at an e93 for myself, I asked the sales guy "I'm leery of the X3, because of the tranmission problems. Any truth in them?"

He said:

1. Yes, a batch of X3's in the 07 / 08 model year were produced with transmission problems.

2. Those problems have been fixed through a software patch, and the models on their lot now, which were built after the problem was fixed, should all be fine.

3. People on the Internet talk too much.

Take all that for what you will. Do any of you have any confidence that a new build X3 will in fact be problem free?

Evlengr
03-10-2008, 12:34 AM
I know someone in the market for an X3, so when I visited the dealer yesterday looking at an e93 for myself, I asked the sales guy "I'm leery of the X3, because of the tranmission problems. Any truth in them?"

He said:

1. Yes, a batch of X3's in the 07 / 08 model year were produced with transmission problems.

2. Those problems have been fixed through a software patch, and the models on their lot now, which were built after the problem was fixed, should all be fine.

3. People on the Internet talk too much.

Take all that for what you will. Do any of you have any confidence that a new build X3 will in fact be problem free?

Not unless it's an MT. (and now there seems to be people reporting "Stalling Out" problems with them).

When BMWNA owns up to the problem--openly
Fixes or makes good on the current users
And 08 owners stop reporting problems


Then I'll believe them. Until then they have done nothing but Lie, Deny, and stick to their story that there is "No Problem Found".

The latest "Software Fix" is only a partial fix. And major problems still occur, especially under cold weather conditions. Great for an AWD vehicle that people buy to handle inclement weather.

If there was "No Problem Found" than all these people that are trading out, getting them bought back, suing, or just not buying must be liars.

To have confidence in the vehicle there must be confidence in the mfg and their support structure.

Coffeeman
03-10-2008, 06:46 AM
To have confidence in the vehicle there must be confidence in the mfg and their support structure. [/b]

Agreed !

matti
03-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Why would anyone buy another BMW and risk having another problem they won't even admit to let alone solve. There are too many other good vehicles out there. I should of bought the Sante Fe. Sure it doesn't handle like the BMW but it was 60% of the cost.

viii_ball
03-11-2008, 06:59 AM
Email sent this morning concerning another issue we had with the transmission on the X3

Dear BMWNA and Service Manager:

We experienced another issue with the drive train on our 2008 X3 last night that I wanted to add to the list of already reported issues.

My wife and I were driving the X3 around 5:30 PM EST on 3/10/2008. We drove through an intersection with a stop light at speed, made a left hand turn at the intersection and as I pressed on the accelerator the car violently bucked 3 times, felt like it was going to stall, and finally engaged and proceeded down the road. This bucking we experienced was similar to a new driver having difficulties learning/driving a stick shift when not in the proper gear. Since our car is an automatic and was in D mode there was something within the controls of the transmission that caused this reaction. Again, we went through the intersection at speed and had not started from a stopped position. Additionally, I looked at the gas gauge to see if we were possibly running out of fuel but we had approximately 1/4 tank of gas so I do not believe this was an issue related to fuel.

Please add this issue to the other five already reported on our 2008 X3.

awhitney07x3
03-11-2008, 07:41 AM
Why would anyone buy another BMW and risk having another problem they won't even admit to let alone solve. There are too many other good vehicles out there. I should of bought the Sante Fe. Sure it doesn't handle like the BMW but it was 60% of the cost.

The Lemon Law states that there is a useage fee the consumer has to pay for a repurchase or a replacement vehicle. "Whether you bought or leased the vehicle, a replacement would be identical or reasonably equivalent to your
present vehicle. You would be responsible for paying the manufacturer a deduction (offset) for use, based on a
formula that includes the miles you put on the vehicle up until the time you made the request to the
manufacturer. [(Miles purchase price) 100,000]
A refund to you for a vehicle you leased would include:
 Your down payment or any initial balloon payment;
 The amount allowed for any trade-in; and
 Incidental costs associated with the repair of the vehicle, such as towing, alternate transportation or
repair charges.
A refund for a vehicle you bought would include:
The purchase price (the amount you agreed to pay before taxes were added and any trade-in value or
down payment subtracted);
Collateral charges (including but not limited to sales tax and other government charges, dealer charges,
dealer-installed items, extended warranty, and all interest you paid on any loan from a lending
institution); and
Incidental costs associated with repairing the vehicle, such as towing, alternate transportation or repair
charges;
Minus a deduction or offset for the miles you put on the vehicle, up until the time of your request that
the manufacturer buy back the vehicle. [(Miles purchase price) 100,000]."

Evlengr
03-11-2008, 02:09 PM
AWhitney ..please do not let this dissuade you.

The price is based upon when you first formally notify the dealer/mfg. So if you reported this problem at 600 miles and now have 12,000 you get the fair market value at 600 miles.

A good lemon lawyer is a must as BMWNA will try to make you assume more costs then you should.

Considering BMWNA's new militant stance of "No Problem Found" it seems that for many of us there is no other recourse.

Once again, I have to emphasize had BWMNA come forward and offered to work with X3 owners instead of lying (and that is what they did) I for one would have been much more tolerant.

Havelcek
03-12-2008, 12:55 PM
I've basically stopped reading this forum because I'm so disgusted with the transmission on my X3. My wife and I are dual-income-no-kids and we'll never buy another BMW...nice job guys.

kjboyd
03-12-2008, 12:58 PM
Havelcek... huh? are you thanking us for driving you away? That's what it sounds like.

Havelcek
03-12-2008, 02:58 PM
Havelcek... huh? are you thanking us for driving you away? That's what it sounds like.

Woops sorry about that, no I meant that to any BMW employees who happen to be reading and ignoring these threads. I have greatly benefited from the collective wisdom of the posters on these forums but continuing to read about the transmission problem just makes me angry.

dashiell
03-12-2008, 06:06 PM
"Havelcek steals it ! Havelcek stole the thread ! It's all over... It's all over !"

Evlengr
03-13-2008, 07:30 AM
I prefer to take liars and bully's head on. BMWNA has been both IMO.

No Problem Found - Liar

It's Your Faullt (driving, gas, etc....) Bullying

Sorry I don't sugar coat my remarks, but when you are talking this much money and the magnitude of the issue they don't deserve it.

dug01
03-13-2008, 09:59 AM
Why would anyone buy another BMW and risk having another problem they won't even admit to let alone solve. There are too many other good vehicles out there. I should of bought the Sante Fe. Sure it doesn't handle like the BMW but it was 60% of the cost.
I agree--for $15k less its a bargain and I can give up some handling and stuff to save some bucks--I wonder about the resale of the newer X3's will go down because of the trans and ecu problems.

Terry J. Harris
03-13-2008, 08:46 PM
Just today, towards the last quarter of a 300 mile round trip down I-80, I had gotten off in Laramie WY to get gas, started down the road that leads back to the interstate, was doing a constant 45 mph or so, and experienced that unpredictable unintended acceleration - you know, driving along and out of the blue the car starts to take off. Also, I stopped to pee at the rest stop at the Lincoln Monument (highest point on I-80) and on the downhill entrance ramp re-entering the interstate the X3 held a gear all the way to red-line/7K rpms as I entered the interstate. Tell me an automatic transmission in a $46K BMW is designed to red-line. I even drove off the next two exit ramps just to see if I could replicate this upon again re-entering the interstate. Of course, I couldn't and instead the X3 acted much like one would expect, running right up through the gears as I reached 70+ mph and entered back onto I-80.

Coffeeman
03-14-2008, 07:52 AM
Just today, towards the last quarter of a 300 mile round trip down I-80, I had gotten off in Laramie WY to get gas, started down the road that leads back to the interstate, was doing a constant 45 mph or so, and experienced that unpredictable unintended acceleration - you know, driving along and out of the blue the car starts to take off. Also, I stopped to pee at the rest stop at the Lincoln Monument (highest point on I-80) and on the downhill entrance ramp re-entering the interstate the X3 held a gear all the way to red-line/7K rpms as I entered the interstate. Tell me an automatic transmission in a $46K BMW is designed to red-line. I even drove off the next two exit ramps just to see if I could replicate this upon again re-entering the interstate. Of course, I couldn't and instead the X3 acted much like one would expect, running right up through the gears as I reached 70+ mph and entered back onto I-80.

I've experienced similar behavior...It is almost as if the transmission is haunted. The other night, I was on a back road with steep hill, flat road, steep hill, etc. The X3 stayed near red-line the entire time. I finally flipped it to sport mode, whereupon it began to act more "normally".

There is something seriously wrong with these vehicles.

Brandon01
03-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Have there been any DME/EGS software updates recently? I haven't heard of any since the aborted one in January. If anyone has had any experience with one since then, please post your observations.

kjboyd
03-14-2008, 02:28 PM
there wouldn't be... as they are now saying there is NO PROBLEM

Evlengr
03-17-2008, 12:37 PM
Here's one for the folks that have the troubled tranny. With the temperatures warming up, have you noticed the X3 behaving better?

With the exception of the SD I am seeing less jerky transistions from 2-3 and vica versa during consistent warmer temps.

bimmer_fam
03-17-2008, 01:07 PM
Here's one for the folks that have the troubled tranny. With the temperatures warming up, have you noticed the X3 behaving better?

With the exception of the SD I am seeing less jerky transistions from 2-3 and vica versa during consistent warmer temps.

It's pretty warm were we live, but we do go up to the mountains, so X3 has seen some low temps, snow, etc. Have not noticed any difference in the behavior cold vs. warm, etc.

My wife took her X3 for service a couple of weeks ago. The same song by BMW: "It's your driving", "nothing wrong with transmission", "drive in SD mode". Wife expressed her surprise that you "needed a special style of driving" to buy X3. Told them that she would take that under consideration next time we look to buy a car.

However, noticed that trany works considerably better after the service. Don't know if this is temporary (or any updated software was loaded, etc.), as I heard it's acting better after reset. Will see...

On a good note, X3 performed very well in light snow and on ice with OEM Pirelli Scorprios M+S.

Rob V
03-18-2008, 12:58 PM
So according to this thread the problems with the AT are for vehicles built between 9/2006 and 11/2007. Is there anyone here who had their cars built AFTER this date that have experienced the problem as well? If someone has experienced that and reported it in this thread I apologize for not readong all nine pages of it but browsing though I didn't find anyone who had specified that. I gues I fall into that camp of thinking that forums do make problems seem worse than they are because, as the saying goes, when you have a complain you tell 7 people, when you're satisfied you tell no one. So naturally you hear more complaints than you do positives. If I were to get an 08' X3 it would have to be ordered so I would think/hope that the problems are not present in the current builds. That's why I ask the question. If someone can tell me that a recently ordered X3 built after the specified dates has the same AT problems then I might scratch the idea all together.

kjboyd
03-18-2008, 03:54 PM
yes, 08s built after 11/07 are having the problems as well.

Evlengr
03-18-2008, 04:03 PM
Rob V. people are actually reporting problems with the 08 AT X3's as well. Hence the reason I am gunning for an 08 MT replacement, a discounted cpo AT 06, or my money back. There was an informal poll done here that showed an alarming increase in complaints with the AT not a decrease.

In fact many of the folks that discarded my comments as being an exception are now part of the group trading out, trading up, or refunding their X3's.

When they get rid of the GM6 transmission I would consider one, but not until. I have driven 10 different BMW's while mine has been in the shop and will drive an X5 tomorrow. Any with the GM6 tranny act up. The one's with out drive like glass.

One poster had a problematic 06 X3 got rid of it for an 07 X3 and now drives a Volvo.

Another is trading back to an AT 06' 5 speed CPO from an 08' AT X3.

kjboyd
03-18-2008, 04:37 PM
Hey, no reason to point it out Ev!!! =) It's hard enough telling people I drive one now! huhuh.
seriously, while it's no BMW (that's pre-2003 build date) it's a hell of a lot better than the X3s I had.

700kq
03-19-2008, 05:22 AM
I agree--for $15k less its a bargain and I can give up some handling and stuff to save some bucks--I wonder about the resale of the newer X3's will go down because of the trans and ecu problems.

I have been reading the forums for over 2 months for info on the X3. 2 weeks ago I visted a CPO Dealer and they had an internet price of $38,970 on a 07 X3 Sport Premium Xenon no heated seats. I check internet the morning before going to visit dealership and the price dropped to $36,970. My trade was still in a lease and had a problem with lease Company when they wanted almost $2000 more for the dealer to pay off. Told CA I would payoff lease and get back with him. This past Monday I check the dealers website to see if it was still listed and it was but the price was $32,970. I had been working with another dealer on a 07 X3 with the colors I wanted, but I could not get a set price from them, I called the CA I had worked with before but he was off on Tuesday. Talked to another CA and asked about the price drop and he told me "It has been on the lot for 41 days and we need to move it out." Still waiting on my title but might try to trade today if I can get a good OTD price.

Evlengr
03-19-2008, 07:59 AM
Yeah I wanted to trade mine in at one point, but more than one dealer said they would not sell and would have to be auctioned. I would have been hugely upside down on my deal.

And that is with a 2.9% finance rate on the new vehicle as opposed to my original 5.49% on the X3.

Now you know why I want BMW to make good on this vehicle.

The value on these are plummeting faster than gas prices are going up.

x3ml
03-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Yeah I wanted to trade mine in at one point, but more than one dealer said they would not sell and would have to be auctioned.

When you take in an almost new 2007 X3 and the dealers says they would not sell, this can mean only one thing: we a a whole bunch of losers, if you happens to own a 07 or 08 X3 with AT.

bimmer_fam
03-20-2008, 01:33 PM
When you take in an almost new 2007 X3 and the dealers says they would not sell, this can mean only one thing: we a a whole bunch of losers, if you happens to own a 07 or 08 X3 with AT.

It depends if you really can't live with the problem... I have not had any cars that were 100% to my "very high" expectations :D
We figured that we can live with sometimes problematic behavior of the tranny until the warranty expires, etc.
Unless BMW improves the situation with AT in future X3 models, we will probably pass on X3 next time we are shopping for a car.

I don't feel that bad about purchasing X3 though. It's a great automobile after all IMHO!

Evlengr
03-20-2008, 03:19 PM
Today I am driving another x3 (build date 07/07) while mine is in the shop. I had asked for an X5, but none were available.

It shifts worse than mine. Why would they give this out as a loaner, unless they really think it's ok to drive like this. Or they are that bull headed.

Concerning the value, there was one poster stating an X3 07 with only 500 miles had been priced down to 32k. And my comment was based on going to several dealers in hopes of breaking even just to get rid of this vehicle if I could not get a trade assist, which won't be happening with BMWNA's new stance of "No Problem Found"!

My previous vehicles didnt cost $40k so I too did not have a 100% expectation, however I would like to drive one that isn't like playing Russian Roulette every time I merge into traffic. And at $40k I think that is a reasonable expectation.

bimmer_fam
03-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Today I am driving another x3 (build date 07/07) while mine is in the shop. I had asked for an X5, but none were available.

It shifts worse than mine. Why would they give this out as a loaner, unless they really think it's ok to drive like this. Or they are that bull headed.

Concerning the value, there was one poster stating an X3 07 with only 500 miles had been priced down to 32k. And my comment was going to several dealers in hopes of breaking even just to get rid of this vehicle if I could not get a trade assist, which won't be happening with BMWNA's new stance of "No Problem Found"!

My previous vehicles didnt cost $40k so I too did not have a 100% expectation, however I would like to drive one that isn't like playing Russian Roulette every time I merge into traffic.

Sure thing, I share your level of frustration, but a few of my previous cars where in $40K range, and NONE of them were what I had hoped for in the end.

Take a look at threads on 3er forum about failed fuel pumps on 335s or RunFlat tires, etc. Driving around and simply waiting when your $40K 335 will lose most of it's power and drop in the limp mode is not fun...
Perhaps, we are not experiencing the tranny issue to the same degree (my wife drives X3 most of the time, but I do get my fair share on the 4 - 5 hour trips to the mountains, etc.), but I don't feel like loosing thousands of dollars trying to dump my X3 right away.

My $.02.

EDIT: BTW I don't think it's easy for any business to admit they are wrong, especially when it's a "ultimate driving machine" manufacturer, so I would not expect them to do much on the tranny issues other than saying "no problem found".

Evlengr
03-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Again, don't expect 100% all the time. $40k should buy you some simple assurances!

I just don't like guessing, "Will it accelerate or won't it when I merge with traffic...will it stall or go, when I enter the traffic circle?"

Wondering if you are going to be broad-sided every time you take a drive is not what I expect from a BMW.

I would like to think it's just my X3 that is a Lemon and I got a Monday car, but everytime I read more about the X3 or drive another 07 or 08 X3 I get the same driving response that I don't get in a 528xi or 7 series, or 06 X3.

davelv
03-20-2008, 10:10 PM
My 2007 X3 is my first and last BMW. Their software update did not totally fix the transmission shifting and I doubt that anything ever will.

To be realistic, BMW can't afford to recall all X3s produced in 07 and 08. But I don't have to buy another problem either.

Too bad actually since I am otherwise impressed with the build and quality of the car.

viii_ball
03-21-2008, 01:31 PM
I anyone has been successful with a trade assist on the X3 with the problem AT could you please private message me.

bimmer_fam
03-21-2008, 10:14 PM
Again, don't expect 100% all the time. $40k should buy you some simple assurances!

I just don't like guessing, "Will it accelerate or won't it when I merge with traffic...will it stall or go, when I enter the traffic circle?"

Wondering if you are going to be broad-sided every time you take a drive is not what I expect from a BMW.

I would like to think it's just my X3 that is a Lemon and I got a Monday car, but everytime I read more about the X3 or drive another 07 or 08 X3 I get the same driving response that I don't get in a 528xi or 7 series, or 06 X3.

Your problem sounds a lot more severe that what we are experiencing. Just today we drove for about 4 hours to the mountains. While X3 hesitated here and there, it was not nearly as bad as what you've described. It has improved significantly since before the regular maintenance, which was performed a few weeks ago.

I would press BMW to fix your specific issue. Have you tried escalating the issue with BMW NA if your local dealer is not helpful? I've had problems with my 325i a few years ago, and that issue was only apparent at or over 80 mph, I asked service manager of one of the local dealerships to drive with me, and that was a break through, as before they could not "recreate" the problem.

As far as expectations of the cars in the $40K segment, you can get a totally dependable Toyota Corolla for under $18K, while earlier versions of the new shaped Mercedes S class had many, many issues, and that thing starts at $85K...

Good luck! :bigpimp:

MJS
03-23-2008, 08:34 PM
This transmission sucks. That is all. Carry on....

Wheels within wheels in a spiral array
A pattern so grand and complex
Time after time we lose sight of the way
Our causes can't see their effects

Evlengr
03-24-2008, 07:31 AM
Your problem sounds a lot more severe that what we are experiencing. Just today we drove for about 4 hours to the mountains. While X3 hesitated here and there, it was not nearly as bad as what you've described. It has improved significantly since before the regular maintenance, which was performed a few weeks ago.

I would press BMW to fix your specific issue. Have you tried escalating the issue with BMW NA if your local dealer is not helpful? I've had problems with my 325i a few years ago, and that issue was only apparent at or over 80 mph, I asked service manager of one of the local dealerships to drive with me, and that was a break through, as before they could not "recreate" the problem.

As far as expectations of the cars in the $40K segment, you can get a totally dependable Toyota Corolla for under $18K, while earlier versions of the new shaped Mercedes S class had many, many issues, and that thing starts at $85K...

Good luck! :bigpimp:

My parents had problems with one of their Mercedes years ago. The transmission on a 560 SEL similar to what I am dealing with now. Herky Jerky shifting. A month later they had a brand new Mercedes. Sorry to say I expected the same class of service from BMWNA.

BMWNA has denied a problem with this car from the git go, yet I have hundreds of comments of different drivers experiencing this issue. I asked up front to replace it (both the dealer and BMWNA) and got a polite no).

I have driven it with a SA in the car and when it snapped gears they looked me straight in the eye and said that is the way the vehicle is supposed to perform.

Since then I have driven over 10 different BMW's and several different models. The only one that consistently drives like this, are the one's with the GM6 transmission. All the other models drive perfectly. Last week I drove a loaner X3 that was WORSE than my car. I was dumbfounded that they would even let this vehicle off the lot.

I am escalating it through different channels at this point.

Evlengr
03-24-2008, 11:19 AM
Just a note to all. After returning from an ASE BMW Certified mechanic he was able to replicate the "Herky Jerky" shifting of the GM6 X3 AT transmission.

I quote, "It was if it was just not there, when I went to accelerate. My Yukon shifts smoother than this."


I will be sharing these findings with several agencies including the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Protection, when he compiles the report, and they are made available to me.

So when they try to tell you its you or all AWD's shift this way, it's bunk!

Stay Tuned

HT417
03-24-2008, 12:01 PM
That's great. Sounds like you're making some progress. :thumbup:

Isn't your DME where they found errors before? Is it looking like dealership error or defective part?

davelv
03-25-2008, 10:41 PM
All of you are idiots.

There is only 15 complaints on the X3 at the government website of which several are repeats.

Until every single X3 owner with a problem complains, BMW will totally ignore the issue.

Again, X3 owners are idiots to post on this website and not on the government website at:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

Useless useless whiney Idiots........................

kjboyd
03-25-2008, 11:40 PM
let the flogging begin

HT417
03-26-2008, 01:53 AM
let the flogging begin

I was tempted to : popcorn: but I really don't think this is going to start a firestorm. IMO, the point is valid but with bad delivery.

2008 X3, build date 12/07, no AT issues, 2289 miles. Bought back for other problems.

2008 X3, build date 09/07 (pre-software patches), no AT issues, 1600+ miles. Daily driver.

STE92VE
03-26-2008, 06:23 AM
2008 X3, build date 12/07, no AT issues, 2289 miles.

2008 X3, build date 09/07 (pre-software patches), no AT issues, 1600+ miles. Daily driver.

I love the sound of that....keep 'em coming......:D

Evlengr
03-26-2008, 07:45 AM
All of you are idiots.

There is only 15 complaints on the X3 at the government website of which several are repeats.

Until every single X3 owner with a problem complains, BMW will totally ignore the issue.

Again, X3 owners are idiots to post on this website and not on the government website at:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

Useless useless whiney Idiots........................

Right idea....Wrong Approach.

I recommend filing with the Attorney Generals Office for Consumer Protection (by law they must investigate), as well as other agency's like the BBB.

Last thing BMWNA wants on the books are unresolved issues that other potential buyers can look up. Money talks!

If need be (when all else fails) file a lemon law suit. It costs you nothing!

bimmer_fam
03-26-2008, 10:15 AM
I was tempted to : popcorn: but I really don't think this is going to start a firestorm. IMO, the point is valid but with bad delivery.

2008 X3, build date 12/07, no AT issues, 2289 miles. Bought back for other problems.

2008 X3, build date 09/07 (pre-software patches), no AT issues, 1600+ miles. Daily driver.

+1

I think davelv was looking in the mirror while posting such a sound advice... I mean, he is the one driving Tbird :rolleyes:

HT417
03-26-2008, 10:33 AM
+1

I think davelv was looking in the mirror while posting such a sound advice... I mean, he is the one driving Tbird :rolleyes:

His approach had me thinking of Amsoil but I don't know why. :dunno:.

Sans Nil
03-26-2008, 01:58 PM
I'm not sure you can complain to the NHTSA about poor quality which is the problem with my 2007 X3. If I had problems with the power completely failing that was truly a safety concern of course I could. But with a bad rough-changing herky-jerky transmission, and the lack of the manufacturer making it 100% right all I can do is vote with my wallet in a couple years when I get a new car again. Which you can better believe I will. And I do let people know about the transmission when ask about my ride which is often.

davelv
03-26-2008, 08:25 PM
Everyone: The X3 transmission is dangerous as noted by many many posters.

This is certainly something that the NHTSA can force BMW to recall.