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Evlengr
02-18-2008, 07:19 AM
I am exploring some options to replacing my X3. One of them is the 335xi.

Other than the obvious:

X3 storage area, panoramic roof, some clearance, and my favorite transmission.

335xi has awd, a different transmission, with cold weather package some decent trunk space, and much faster.

What advantages or disadvantage do you see with a swap on these vehicles?

kjboyd
02-18-2008, 08:00 AM
I had a 335 loaner at one point, and to be honest, found it entirely unusable in daily city commute traffic.-- my commute is only 3 miles and on city streets, and it was just geared wrong to make it worth that beautiful engine.

Ev: also: after how you've been treated, why would you want another BMW... besides the obvious reasons.

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 08:07 AM
By most objective measures the 335ix is a far better car. Handling and power it wins hands down over the X3.

There were early problems with over temp but I believe they were fixed by an adding a oil cooler. Nothing recent in the e90 forum. I'm not in the market for one, so I don't lurk over there much.

We looked at the 328ix wagon but went with an X3 for two reasons.
Cargo height: We have 2 giant breed dogs. We foster for a rescue group. Current foster is a 140lb Great Dane.
Payment: Lease deal on the X3 was too good to pass up.

MSRP is about the same though.

Be sure to take a 335xi out on a nice long test drive.


Personally I can't stand the way the sedan looks. I'm still not a big fan of iDrive. Fortunately it is an option.

It hard to be sure with the cladding, but I'm hopeful the 2009 will be better. Just getting the rear lights from the coupe would be an improvement.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/BMW-3-series/


Kevin,

Our commute is also 3 miles. Most days we leave the BMW at home. Miata is great for the short trips.

Evlengr
02-18-2008, 08:30 AM
At this point I am trying to have a plan "B" in place depending on how BWMNA wants to work with me.

Meaning if the best I can do is another BMW I wanted to have an alternate to the X3, since I have no trust or faith in BMW's ability to rectify the transmission issues. This would preclude me from getting another X3. I don't want to run into your issues KJ.

The 528xi has treated me so well (going on Day 5 loaner) that maybe the 335xi (closer price point with AWD) will suit me better.

I agree I really don't like the tail lights on the sedan and was hoping to see the coupes on it.

However, a recent dilemna has proposed itself. After doing a "Vehix" search on even 2007 CPO's the best price I have seen is in the 46k range and not anywhere near even MSRP.

So maybe this alternate idea is moot? You never know this may drag on so long another vehicle will pop up that I like, Lol.

Zoltar
02-18-2008, 09:28 AM
I have been lurking in the 3 series section for the past year and a half.
The 335 being new has not been without its problems.
There was a big problem with fuel pump failures where many were without their cars for months. There was also an overheating issue that was solved with an oil cooler. They would go into high temp limp mode. Things seen to have calmed down recently.

If you are looking for a hassle free experience, the 328i appears a better bet.
However, I believe the 328ix has the same transmission as the X3 and I have seen a few posts over there describing the same symptoms on the 328ix as the X3.

Why not go for a 528ix as its sounds like it is doing you well?

Maybe a 2006 CPO 528ix?

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 09:51 AM
However, a recent dilemna has proposed itself. After doing a "Vehix" search on even 2007 CPO's the best price I have seen is in the 46k range and not anywhere near even MSRP.

So maybe this alternate idea is moot? You never know this may drag on so long another vehicle will pop up that I like, Lol.

Forget Vehix.

Look over in Ask A Dealer. At the moment BMW NA has incentives on some cars in dealer stock. January was a slow month. There are some deals to be had on cars sitting on the lot. Those come and go, but you might get lucky.


Even without incentives, you should be able to get an 335ix sedan for about $1500 over invoice. Most of the cars sitting in dealer stock have too many options. If you stay low on options that puts you under $40,000.

US POE 335ix + metallic paint + sport package + training fee + MACO + destination charge + dealer profit < $41,000


On an invoice + deal, Munich pick up is about $3,000 less than US POE delivery.


Basic system:

Find a dealer that will work an invoice + $1xxx deal.
If there is a car on the lot, ask about incentives. If not order the car you want.

iamthewalrus
02-18-2008, 09:59 AM
For me, it was easy. I need the additional ground clearance for the National Forest Service roads here in the Pacific NW to get to all of my favorite trailheads. The 335 is really a great car in both sedan and coupe form. I'm going to do European delivery with a friend for his 335xci in a few weeks.

That said, the 335 is almost too much car unless you're taking it out on the track. I wish the 3 series came with the 265hp engine from the X3 3.0si and Z4 3.0si. The twin-turbo is a total beast, but it's kind of over the top. The 225hp in my 2006 X3 3.0i is plenty. I've *never* felt it was underpowered. I think it's more fun to actually use the engine's full potential than hit 65mpg in second gear and feel that the rest of the potential is wasted.

Just my $0.02.

-James
Seattle, WA

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 10:31 AM
I wish the 3 series came with the 265hp engine from the X3 3.0si and Z4 3.0si.

It does. 272HP 330i. BMW doesn't sell that version in the US. Instead we get the de-tuned 328i. :(

AzNMpower32
02-18-2008, 10:40 AM
You only get the secondary oil cooler on the twin-turbo motor if it is ordered with sport package. Given our summer humidity and temperatures, I would highly suggest sport package.

Ev, try looking at a Infiniti G35x. Given your troubles with BMW NA, I think it may be better to move on. The Infiniti has lots of toys, costs less, and drives very close to the 3. There's fewer things to break, and it is a terrific car.

iamthewalrus
02-18-2008, 10:54 AM
It does. 272HP 330i. BMW doesn't sell that version in the US. Instead we get the de-tuned 328i. :(

It's all just marketing. If they offered the 272hp 330i in the US, fewer would opt for the more expensive 335i.

Back in 2006 when I bought my 330Cic, I could have purchased a CPO M3 convertible for the same price. After driving my friend's M3 'vert extensively I decided it was just too much car. Sometimes more is just more...

Andrew*Debbie
02-18-2008, 11:12 AM
You only get the secondary oil cooler on the twin-turbo motor if it is ordered with sport package. Given our summer humidity and temperatures, I would highly suggest sport package.




Yeah. Doesn't make much sense getting a 335i without the sport package. I edited my earlier post.

The sport package isn't the same on a 335ix as it is on the 335i. I don't know the details. Something to look into before purchase.


I wouldn't want the 335i either. I don't need that kind of power. Top of the list for MX-5 replacement is a 128i 'vert or Z4 3.0i.

Evlengr
02-18-2008, 11:16 AM
You only get the secondary oil cooler on the twin-turbo motor if it is ordered with sport package. Given our summer humidity and temperatures, I would highly suggest sport package.

Ev, try looking at a Infiniti G35x. Given your troubles with BMW NA, I think it may be better to move on. The Infiniti has lots of toys, costs less, and drives very close to the 3. There's fewer things to break, and it is a terrific car.

One small problem. The sound system will not meet my requirements and changing it out would take major modifications and cost. Plus I don't like toys since I think most of them are just that toys. They look really cool and do nothing.

Thank you though--it would have been a nice alternate.

I am looking at the 335xi under the premise that my only option may not be a full buy back but Trade Assist. Always like to have a plan B in place.

And I want that kind of power. "Dammit Jim I'm an engineer, not a doctor."

Don't you watch Star Trek...engineers always need more power.


Had I done my research a little better I would have gone there in the first place. I always wanted an "M" class, but that is too expensive and not family functional.

kjboyd
02-18-2008, 11:39 AM
Ev.. what about and Audi S4 Quatro?

or S4 wagon?

Evlengr
02-18-2008, 11:48 AM
Ev.. what about and Audi S4 Quatro?

or S4 wagon?


Nother great suggestion.:thumbup: Will certainly check on that.

This post is to explore the possibility that I (and others that want a BMW but not another X3) only have another BMW to choose from. ;)

HT417
02-19-2008, 01:00 AM
That's really an apples to oranges comparison. I personally dont' like the 3's because the $/linear foot ratio is too high, don't like the instrument cluster, hate run flats, limited space for passengers and luggage, and I'm 6'2" and I'm tired of bumping my head getting in. If you really want a sports car, however, the reputation is well deserved and the handling is fantastic. The sport package on the 3--xi doesn't change any suspension components - you only get new rims, seats and steering wheel, I believe. The xi handling shouldn't be as good as the RWD because it's heavier and has steel suspension components vs. aluminum. Taking a sports car and "detuning" its handling with X-Drive just seemed like too much of a compromise to me. However, the 335xi lays down the power better and according to BMW is .1 second faster to 60 with the AT. As others have stated, there are different issues associated with the TT engine.

When I got my second chance, I reconsidered everything and in the end went back to the X3 but this time with Sport Package. For me it was still the best mix for day to day use and I can always rent a sports car when I need more thrill. Others might argue that you can always rent something larger when you need more space. I guess it depends on your priorities. The 2008 models add ambient and puddle lighting to the Premium Pack and the power folding mirrors are handy. I liked the 528xi interior, not so fond of the exterior, but just couldn't live with it's weak crash test results. See www.iihs.org (http://www.iihs.org). The X3 gets good results front, side and rear, and a Top Pick. In fact, the X3 tested didn't have the rear airbags and the passengers still weren't injured. The crash testing may be a controversial subject but the fact is given the same circumstances, the X3 faired better. Drifting from your question a little, the car that almost got bought was an X5 3.0si. My wife and I were drooling over the interior and the upgraded comfort. And, it would have been only $4k more. The test drive was the deal breaker, though, as we both thought it was too big for us here in Europe, slower, bouncier, louder, thurstier and stiffer sprung.

In the end I put my faith back in BMW and except for the Michelins, I have no regrets.

dashiell
02-19-2008, 01:52 AM
+1 on the X5 HT. I am coming out of an '05 X5 that I absolutely love. My '08 X3 is on a ship in the Atlantic and I have to say that in a way the X3 feels like a step down. That being said, the X3 is quicker, handles better, is a better size, gets better mileage and has a better stereo(premium). I think the X5 is nicer looking and is more luxurious but I would feel pretty shallow buying another for just those reasons.

iamthewalrus
02-19-2008, 09:46 AM
I wouldn't want the 335i either. I don't need that kind of power. Top of the list for MX-5 replacement is a 128i 'vert or Z4 3.0i.

I was thinking along the same lines. If I were in the market for a second car, the 128 coupe is very compelling. Manual, Sport Pkg, Xenons, upgraded stereo, and PDC puts it right at $33K which is a great price point for a 2-seater second car that's still really engaging to drive.
And with 230hp and ~200 ft-lbs of torque, this should be plenty quick. My old 330Cic which weighed considerably more is fast with the 3.0 225hp/220 ft-lbs of torque engine. Now, a 128 convertible with all of the extra weight a convertible entails may not be super quick, but it should still be a lot of fun.

AzNMpower32
02-19-2008, 11:35 AM
I wouldn't want the 335i either. I don't need that kind of power. Top of the list for MX-5 replacement is a 128i 'vert or Z4 3.0i.
If I had my way, I'd think about a Z4 2.5i or 2.5si, with 175hp and 215hp respectively. Hard to deny 28.5 miles to the gallon......city! MMMMmmmm cool-lookin roadster, inline-6 snarl, 4 cyl fuel consumption, BMW handling. Tasty :p. Oh right, it's another one of the 19876 models we don't get here. :thumbdwn:

Back on topic. Sorry for the random rant.

x3eer
02-19-2008, 11:49 AM
I can***8217;t believe he is still looking into another BMW. I thought his faulty X3 would be the last BMW ever in his life. Based on his experience and what he has posted in this forum, BMW is the worst car manufacturer ever who never takes care of their customer and who intentionally ignores the problems found in their product.

I just don***8217;t get it. X3.. hell no.. 3 sedan.. don***8217;t like the tail lights.. 5.. did well but too expensive.. Audi.. it***8217;s not BMW!.. G35.. sound system will not meet my requirements.. Did X3 meet your requirements? What***8217;s the point in asking for opinions?

I think it***8217;s Evlengr who should really move on..

Evlengr
02-19-2008, 11:51 AM
Ste92Ve,

Not to worry I have Mitch "ignored" so don't know what he says until quoted. And thank you for your civility it just goes to show that there are more BMW owners like you then Mitch and that I have lessons to learn on board etiquette.

To explain. My recent comments have been based upon my experience with my X3 and what responses I have received from BMWNA and other owners.

That said, the loaners I have driven always seem to work right. In that light if BMWNA is willing to trade out my vehicle but not buy it back I would need to choose another BMW?

Since the X3 and I seem incompatible it seems only logical that a look for another type of BMW within my budget and that closely meets both sides compromise.

The 335xi has awd, a different transmission, cold weather package, and it seems the original "fun" factor I was looking for.

To those with the great suggestions thank you.

To the other one--who cares. And I thought I was grouchy.

BruceOmega
02-19-2008, 12:53 PM
FWIW,

We used to have both an '06 X3 and an '06 330Xi. They are two different vehicles. The sedan is a 4 door sports car. It sits fairly low, and is agile and fun to drive. Eventually, however, I could not tolerate the harshness which I attributed to the RFTs, even after swtiching from Bridgestones to Continentals. I have seen comments from others, though, that the ride harshness has been tamed down on new 335Xis.

The X3 is roomier inside, you sit higher, which my wife loves, has much easier ingress and egress, and the rear seat has much more usable room. I found the rear seat of the sedan too tight and too hard to get in and out of when a taller adult was sitting in the front. Our X3 does not have the harshness / hard hits that the 330Xi sedan had, although I would say overall it has a firmer ride.

I traded in the 330Xi for a 535Xi (my wife still has and loves the X3). The 3 series and 5 series sedans are different cars with different personalities. The 5 is smoother, roomier, bigger trunk, sits higher, is easier to get in and out of, reasonably sized, pretty darn good handling, and fantastic on a trip.

Bruce

Mitch3672
02-19-2008, 01:02 PM
FWIW,

We used to have both an '06 X3 and an '06 330Xi. They are two different vehicles. The sedan is a 4 door sports car. It sits fairly low, and is agile and fun to drive. Eventually, however, I could not tolerate the harshness which I attributed to the RFTs, even after swtiching from Bridgestones to Continentals. I have seen comments from others, though, that the ride harshness has been tamed down on new 335Xis.

The X3 is roomier inside, you sit higher, which my wife loves, has much easier ingress and egress, and the rear seat has much more usable room. I found the rear seat of the sedan too tight and too hard to get in and out of when a taller adult was sitting in the front. Our X3 does not have the harshness / hard hits that the 330Xi sedan had, although I would say overall it has a firmer ride.

I traded in the 330Xi for a 535Xi (my wife still has and loves the X3). The 3 series and 5 series sedans are different cars with different personalities. The 5 is smoother, roomier, bigger trunk, sits higher, is easier to get in and out of, reasonably sized, pretty darn good handling, and fantastic on a trip.

Bruce

I agree, the 535xi really is a beautiful and elegant machine. I used to like the older 5 for it's pure South Bavarian (Munich) sensibilites, but embraced the new as much more modern. I find the visual strength is superior to the 3 especially from the back (the 3s weak point) and also has a more expensive ambiance going down the road because it packs a little more heft. You pay very modest handling penalty over the 3. I much prefer it over the 3 but of course, you pay for the privilege. Too bad the new M3 sedan retains the same taillights because it looks really bad ass otherwise.

Evlengr
02-19-2008, 01:03 PM
From the looks of it, it sounds like I would want a CPO 528 or 535xi (since I don't think they would trade me a brand new one).

Back to the (drawing) research board.

BTW I have had the 528xi for several days now. And I love it.

It turns out that the water leak (that's why it's in the shop now) that I am experiencing is not the fault of anyone but me.
I let a top line installer put new speakers in the doors and while doing it they tore the "Vapor Barrier".

I will now go eat my humble pie!

This issue is seperate from the others, but it is only fair to note that BMW is not responsible for this and in the end run were the one's to fix it.

bmwadam
02-19-2008, 03:55 PM
Well Evl I wouldnt mind a 335xi myself. Although I would prefer a 550 touring if it existed..... I am not a fan of turbos, I prefer NA motors.

But honestly when my wife bought her X3 I tried to persuade here to pick up the 328xi touring that happenned to have a 6MT. But of course she hated it, she calls it a station wagon and dosnt want to look like a soccer mom. I am not a fan of her sentiment. Its not like I tried to put her in a Volvo V70 or something similarly atrocious..... I have said all along that the 328xi is a better overall package that the X3 (unless of course you have very large dogs, OR work for the national park service, OR do whatever else that requires the ground clearance etc)

On a side note I am not a fan of the e90 tail either....I really wish they would change this! Otherwise it is a good looking car....

Andrew*Debbie
02-19-2008, 04:15 PM
Well Evl I wouldnt mind a 335xi myself. Although I would prefer a 550 touring if it existed..... I am not a fan of turbos, I prefer NA motors.


Actually there is a 550iT. BMW also builds an M5 Touring.

5L V10 500HP. 0-100km/h in 4.8S


http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136032&stc=1&d=1203466368


Neither version is officially imported to the US. You could buy one in Germany and have it Federalized. Pricey.


On a side note I am not a fan of the e90 tail either....I really wish they would change this! Otherwise it is a good looking car....

Rumors say the '09 sedan face lift tail looks a lot like the coupe.

tim330i
02-20-2008, 06:55 AM
Please knock off the personal attacks. Bimmerfest is a fun and friendly community to everyone. The moderators team will be the only one who chooses if someone cannot be on the site. Not owning a BMW does not, in any way, stop a member from participating.

Tim

STE92VE
02-20-2008, 07:04 AM
Please knock off the personal attacks. Bimmerfest is a fun and friendly community to everyone. The moderators team will be the only one who chooses if someone cannot be on the site. Not owning a BMW does not, in any way, stop a member from participating.

Tim

:thumbup:

x3eer
02-20-2008, 07:05 AM
Thanks Tim,

OK.. let***8217;s move on.. back to main issue.

i don***8217;t know if someone else already brought it up, but how about 328xi wagon? i was actually debating for months between 328xi and X3. i thought it was one of the best looking wagon on the road. it has a great handling and agility from the sedan (well.. very close to), x-drive, all the gadgets currently available from BMW and decently sized cargo space, etc.

if you haven't considered, give a shot.

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 07:11 AM
Please knock off the personal attacks. Bimmerfest is a fun and friendly community to everyone. The moderators team will be the only one who chooses if someone cannot be on the site. Not owning a BMW does not, in any way, stop a member from participating.

Tim

+2:thumbup:

Thanks X3eer. Every option is open at this point. A/D suggested something similar.

STE92VE
02-20-2008, 07:13 AM
i don't know if someone else already brought it up, but how about 328xi wagon? i was actually debating for months between 328xi and X3. i thought it was one of the best looking wagon on the road. it has a great handling and agility from the sedan (well.. very close to), x-drive, all the gadgets currently available from BMW and decently sized cargo space, etc.

if you haven't considered, give a shot.

I agree it's one of the best looking wagons on the road and suggested it to my wife, but she has a negative skew on station wagons. I call it a Sport Wagon.:D (and Europe denotes it as Touring), but it will be her vehicle so I didn't push the issue.

Be aware that the E91 has an issue with noise from the panoramic roof. Other than that, a viable alternative if it suits your fancy.

MJS
02-20-2008, 07:17 AM
Thanks Tim,

OK.. let's move on.. back to main issue.

i don't know if someone else already brought it up, but how about 328xi wagon? i was actually debating for months between 328xi and X3. i thought it was one of the best looking wagon on the road. it has a great handling and agility from the sedan (well.. very close to), x-drive, all the gadgets currently available from BMW and decently sized cargo space, etc.

if you haven't considered, give a shot.

I think that was ruled out due to having the same transmission as the X3. I think.

Although if I was getting the 328Xi, I'd get it with a manual. For some reason, to me, getting the X3 with a manual just didn't feel right. Maybe it was the seating position, not sure. Maybe I would like it eventually.

Anyhoo, I'd get the 528Xi if I were Evl. He's had it for a while, giving him plenty of time to check it out. Much more than a 30 minute test drive. Not sure how they price out. Maybe get a stripped down model to keep the price down.

Tim330i, there's a name I haven't seen in a few years. Maybe I'm just on different boards.

Evlengr
02-20-2008, 07:48 AM
Wow thanks MJS. Yes would like to steer clear of the GM6 if possible. You folks will like this.

Wife suggested I stop playing with stereo system adaptations and get a CPO 5 series or Lease one since I now have a 4 mile commute instead of the 30+ I have had for the last 7 years.

bmwadam
02-20-2008, 07:52 AM
CPO 5er Evl. I'd be all over it......

bmwadam
02-20-2008, 07:55 AM
Thanks AndrewDebbie for the pics of my ultimate "dream" daily driver....

I wish the 550it existed here, or the M5 Touring for that matter! One of those two would be my car. BMWNA believes that these types of cars wouldnt sell here. But on the used m arkets Toruings of any stripe sell very quick...I wonder why???

On a side not there is a sticky over on the e39 forum where this guy took a e39 540it and transformed it into an M5! It is probably one of the most entertaining threads to read on all of bimmerfest! Its a pretty amazing feet nonetheless...

x3eer
02-20-2008, 08:01 AM
I agree it's one of the best looking wagons on the road and suggested it to my wife, but she has a negative skew on station wagons. I call it a Sport Wagon.:D (and Europe denotes it as Touring), but it will be her vehicle so I didn't push the issue.

My wife really pushed 328xi ‘Sport Wagon’ over X3 at the end, but it will be mine so I didn’t listen to her. :D

Good point MJS, do they have same AT issue that found in X3? Just curious..

BruceOmega
02-20-2008, 10:00 AM
..... I have said all along that the 328xi is a better overall package that the X3 (unless of course you have very large dogs, OR work for the national park service, OR do whatever else that requires the ground clearance etc)


Not questioning your preferences, but in our own case we found other things in the X3 that we prefer over a 3 series sedan: higher seating position, easier to get in and out of, and the ability for an adult to sit comfortably in the back seat.

Bruce

bmwadam
02-20-2008, 10:24 AM
Not questioning your preferences, but in our own case we found other things in the X3 that we prefer over a 3 series sedan: higher seating position, easier to get in and out of, and the ability for an adult to sit comfortably in the back seat.

Bruce

That is a good point Bruce. This is what my wife really likes about the X3. She also likes the better visability. I prefer a car that sits lower to the ground, and the 328 handles better from my exp. driving the two of them. Of course there is not as much legroom in the back, but then again the X3 dosnt give you much more. Also in my 04 the rear seats are not that comfortable to begin with.

The biggest plus with the e90 is the updated chasis. Plus it dosnt have the creaks and rattles that on occasion afflict every X3 I have ridden in. (This is a carryover from the e46 platform that the e83 is based off of, still a tremendous chasis)

But to each his own. I personally think (and hope) that the next gen. of X3 will be a much more refined machine. I am looking forward to a test drive when it arrives in a couple of years.

Andrew*Debbie
02-20-2008, 11:40 AM
Good point MJS, do they have same AT issue that found in X3? Just curious..


The 328ix uses the identical GM transmission and a similar Magna transfer case. The DME software isn't identical to the X3. I don't know about the EGS.

There is a TSB for similar issues. The Bimmerfest trouble report rate for the 328ix is much lower than the X3, but I've seen a couple posts describing similar symptoms.


===

I recommend EE avoid a 328ix with the automatic. Either order one with a stick or get a 335ix. The 335 uses a ZF transmission. Amazingly BMW NA will allow Americans to order a 328ix Touring with a manual. Tourings with a stick are difficult to sell. Either lease or plan to keep it forever.

The look on a BMW CA's face when you tell them you want to order 3er Touring with a stick is priceless. Try it sometime. Kinda fun.

bmwadam
02-20-2008, 12:47 PM
I would buy up an 39 toruing with a stick in a minute...Ever seen an e39 or an e46 touuring with a stick? They are all but nonexistant, BUT when one pops up on auto trader they do not last long. I understand that a lot of new car buyers for this type of car may not want a stick, BUT when the car is 5 years old or so, there is a high demand out there for them.

I knew a guy that flew out to CA to buy an e39 540it that had been converted over to a 6spd, he paid more than the car was worth. I also almost drove to SC once to pick up a e46 toruing with a stick, BUT they sold the car before I could get down there. I seriously doubt that a toruing with a stick would be difficult to sale for the simple fact that they are VERY rare.