Enging revving in idle!!Help!!

[Ash4200]

Hi to every e36 enthusiast! I have just discovered a problem with my bimmer 325 tds auto. When i start the engine, the engine keeps revving in idle, eventhough it is already wamed up.
The strange thing is that while the engine keeps revving-the tachometer or revolution meter does not show it. You can either hear that the engine is revving on its own in idle, Or after putting it on Drive position or Revers, the car keeps slightly moving with each rev even when i keep my foot on the brake.

I have no idea what it is. Any help is highly appreciated. I wanted to try this great forum before being ripped off by a french garage here in france. They wont even talk to you unless paid.
:)

[BMWredneck]

The revving sounds like it could be a intake manifold gasket or a vacuum leak somewhere in the system.

[InSepsis]

also look into checking your "throttle position sensor" . I have not had this problem with my BMW but my old dodge intrepid would rev itself all the time and especially when on idle.

turns out the "throttle position sensor" was dying and it was not reading what the throttle was doing so it was going crazy. not sure how much this is on a BMW but it cost me some 75 bucks and about 30 minutes of work to replace on my old Dodge.

P.S. I am not sure if BMWs have this, but I am assuming that all automatics do. Mine is also a stick shift so I am not sure if I have it or not....

hopefully i helped and not just confused you even more.

[InSepsis]

Also I found this:

Engine Control Module Fault Code for Throttle Position Sensor
Model:
BMW E34 and E36 with M50 engines
Complaint:
The ***8216;check engine***8217; light is on, and in automatic transmission vehicles the failure indicator for transmission control module is on, and the transmission operates in the failsafe mode.
Remedy:
The idle speed control valve is to be replaced if:

-The engine control module has a fault code 12 (M50), or fault code 73 (M50TU), and transmission control module fault code 105 (only automatic transmission vehicles) is experienced.
-The throttle position sensor and its circuit have tested good, and
-No other outside influence can be found. (These include the floor mat pushed up against the pedal, a misadjusted throttle cable, or a misadjusted cruise control actuator assembly).

[Ash4200]

Do you think i can try to fix that myself or need to take it to a garage? Actually, i dont know where the intake manifold gasket and vaccum leak is located. Can you put some more light please!

[InSepsis]

The TPS is really easy to change, but unfortunately its one of those readily changed parts that the dealer is well aware of how often it goes bad -that means it could be costly (considering you'll have to get it from the dealer).

If there is a junk yard nearby, consider getting one off a wrecked vehicle. The removal of it from a wreck will give you an idea of just how easy it is to replace.

[Ash4200]

The TPS is really easy to change, but unfortunately its one of those readily changed parts that the dealer is well aware of how often it goes bad -that means it could be costly (considering you'll have to get it from the dealer).

If there is a junk yard nearby, consider getting one off a wrecked vehicle. The removal of it from a wreck will give you an idea of just how easy it is to replace.

Thanks buddy, i would most certainly take the tps into account, however, i feel that it could be the intake manifold gasket. Any idea if i can fix that myself.
thanks
Oh! yes almost forgot something--Does anyone know what intake manifod gasket is called in french? lol That would be a tricky question i guess.

[stephenslyman]

i dont know the problem but i can give you a short term solution.


i had m40 engine its hard to describe when i dont know what your setup is like.

but you see the cable here on the image?

136125

well if you look closely you can twist it at the point i show. it will tighten the cable and make the engine idle at whatever speed you wish. just listen to the engine youl know which way to tighten or loosen

if that looks different to your engine set up just look for the similar equivalant cable that leads to the top of the engine....

D'accord?

[Ash4200]

stephenslyman,

hey merci beaucoup, c'est gentil ha!
I might be able to do that, but don't you think it will hide the problem that the car is facing at the moment? The engine keeps revving and shaking the whole car, and when it is engaged i can feel the car trying to move or jump forward.

I am really worried about this intake manifold gasket though. Just got a call from a garage chain called Norauto here in france. They told me i need to go to BMW coz they dont have this thing with them. And they scared me as well by saying the cost will be high. The guy was really funny. As i kept asking any idea of how much, he would just say very expensive in his poor english, but wont let out any estimates out of his mouth, however, i do appreciate him speaking english to me.

[stephenslyman]

stephenslyman,

hey merci beaucoup, c'est gentil ha!
I might be able to do that, but don't you think it will hide the problem that the car is facing at the moment? The engine keeps revving and shaking the whole car, and when it is engaged i can feel the car trying to move or jump forward.

I am really worried about this intake manifold gasket though. Just got a call from a garage chain called Norauto here in france. They told me i need to go to BMW coz they dont have this thing with them. And they scared me as well by saying the cost will be high. The guy was really funny. As i kept asking any idea of how much, he would just say very expensive in his poor english, but wont let out any estimates out of his mouth, however, i do appreciate him speaking english to me.

try what i advised, see what happens its literally as easy as turning a screw!

hey so you arent french? im moving to spain (BASQUE REGION) round summer time and iv VERY VERY LITTLE SPANISH. im not looking forward to the whole language Barrier!

[stephenslyman]

Found this posted to a mechanic online .
QUESTION :"The car has an idle problem. It is somewhat intermittent. When first started it almost always idles well. When the engine is up to, half the normal operating temperature through normal temperature the idle becomes slightly rough. If the brake pedal is partially released and the car begins to move forward it feels jerky as if there is a miss, the car never stalls but sometimes the engine speed becomes erratic and it feels as if it lopes. The tach will fluctuate between 1200 and about 700 rpm when the car is idling at its worst (though it rarely gets that bad).

When I pull away it accelerates smoothly and powerfully, at the next stoplight the idle is fine. After that, it usually happens all the time at a stop but rarely is the miss very pronounced, yet always present. Fuel pressure is fine the spark plugs are fairly new and not fouled. Also sometimes at cruising speeds of about 55 mph going up a hill in top gear {automatic w/overdrive trans) under light acceleration the sane kind of slightly jerky "miss" is felt. There are no trouble codes set ever. The engine does not burn any oil. It has a new catalytic converter.

Answer: It sounds like it is time for a major tune up including: spark plugs, spark plug wires (if equipped), fuel injection service, clean the throttle bore, idle air passages and idle air control motor. Also replace the fuel filter and air filter.""

[Ash4200]

As for the first advice; i checked the engine-oh man, it is totaly different from yours. I tried my best, but couldnt find that cable at all. Then i actually went to a friend who owns a garage. unfortunately, all he could say was something wrong with the fuel pump or electrics related fuel injection. He advised me to check with BMW as they have the computers to find the fault immediately, and then i could bring him back the car as soon as the fault is detected by BMW.
Then your last post really makes sense. I do think spark plugs, spark plug wires, fuel injection service, clean the throttle bore, idle air passages and idle air control motor.

[Ash4200]

Moving to spain sounds great. I havent been thier yet, however, it is one of the best holiday destinations to any european. Specially as there is no sunshine anywhere else in europe...lol...

[stephenslyman]

you know if u want to go and do a full service, u might think it will fix the problem and could end up costing you a lot. (plug wires 100euro + , plugs 20 euro , idle motor/air mass sensor 200euro +

whereas if you bring it to a bmw independant dealer, he can use a diagnostic to find the fault at im sure under 100 euro.
the problem with main dealer mechanics is , They are great but they dont deal with money and to them everything is easier just to replace and throw in new parts. they dont want to spend time messing around, thats why theyre so expensive. find a good independent BMW mechanic. i think thats your next step....

[Ash4200]

You are 100% right about that. Especially now that i have just discovered another strange noise when i am accelerating. During a little harder acceleration the engine or what ever it is, make a woofing sound. More like ( soooooffffff) before the pedal is let go.

Could that be a leakage that makes the noise?

[stephenslyman]

its definitely related to main problem anyway! To be honest its past my knowledge, doesnt appear to be an electrical problem, i think u can rule out a service to remedy the problem.
u know like i had problem with my car and i was going mad trying figure out problem for weeks, i brought it to a professional and he spotted it in literally 1 minute.

your friend with the garage wasnt very helpful,i think he just confused the situation. it cant be fuel pump cos that hasnt got control over how the diesel is managed. the fuel pump will just send diesel or not at all.
as regard to electrical problem with fuel injection...... i thought the only problem people have with injectors is that they are dirty and clogged and dont send ENOUGH diesel thru. and you definitely dont have that problem!


i think BMWREDNECK is right, The revving sounds like it could be a intake manifold gasket or a vacuum leak somewhere in the system.

iv never had this problem so i havent got a clue.
i can only help with problems iv had to fix from being a broke ass student!

if you do plan on servicing i can talk you thru it. plugs, leads, oil etc...



i tried to find you an independent Strabourgen BMW mechanic on google but those ****ers only seem to deal in citroens!!!!!!!! i suppose french mechanics are pretty hard to deal with.....i dont envy you!


if you take a picture of your engine bay, i can try locate your accelerator cable?? you could at least bring down the Revs and it wouldnt try to drive forward when its in Drive.....

[stephenslyman]

http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/archive-2001-2004/18366-problem-car-revving-itself.html
guy with pretty much same problem .... of course he found the Solution and didnt bother his arse to post the solution!!!!!!!!



"I also read in my hayes manual this could be the TPS (throttle pos. sensor)... seems like the little door in the idle motor is letting in too much air... I cleaned that out with carb cleaner and it runs smooth but the door isnt closing enough during normal idle... 75 bucks for that idle motor but Im thinking it might be something else or whatever sensor is making that door not close... It shouldnt be the mass air sensor because at rev the car runs smooth just at idle the thing revs itself up to 2grand then back down then back up like im telling someone to race me..."



"my intake gaskets need to be replaced."

"Idle Control Valve"

"so anyhow Im tinkering around and I decide to yank the idle motor deal thats just before the throttle body and bypass it with just a hunk of hose bent to close off the hole. so once that was bent right the car ran fine with whatever amount of air that hose was letting through"

[Ash4200]

its definitely related to main problem anyway! To be honest its past my knowledge, doesnt appear to be an electrical problem, i think u can rule out a service to remedy the problem.
u know like i had problem with my car and i was going mad trying figure out problem for weeks, i brought it to a professional and he spotted it in literally 1 minute.

your friend with the garage wasnt very helpful,i think he just confused the situation. it cant be fuel pump cos that hasnt got control over how the diesel is managed. the fuel pump will just send diesel or not at all.
as regard to electrical problem with fuel injection...... i thought the only problem people have with injectors is that they are dirty and clogged and dont send ENOUGH diesel thru. and you definitely dont have that problem!


i think BMWREDNECK is right, The revving sounds like it could be a intake manifold gasket or a vacuum leak somewhere in the system.

i tried to find you an independent Strabourgen BMW mechanic on google but those ****ers only seem to deal in citroens!!!!!!!! i suppose french mechanics are pretty hard to deal with.....i dont envy you!


if you take a picture of your engine bay, i can try locate your accelerator cable?? you could at least bring down the Revs and it wouldnt try to drive forward when its in Drive.....


Ruling out servicing is a good point u have made. I dont wanna end up paying for nothing.
My mechanic friend really did confuse us. enough reasons to deny his diagnosis.

You have found a good piece to back Redneck's sugestion that it is something to do with gasket or vaccum leakage. In fact, after doing some research online, it seems that vaccum leakage is more likely to be the cause. Specially as the engine makes this soooffing noise. This linkhttp://www.autozone.com/UseCase,S001/UserAction,viewSimpleDiagInfo/Parameters,info/getInTheZone.htm has really helped alot. It speaks about everything you got on a car, very comprehensive.

I have tried to find a local bmw mechanic as well and as u might well know, you can only find a citroen, peugeot or renault hacker and full stop. The french love these cars, eventhough, they are useless...lol..or maybe not.

I will take a picture of my car's engine bay tomorrow.

Thanks for the loads of help buddy.:)

[Ash4200]

As promised i have filmed the noise of my car's engine instead of just taking a photo. This is a Youtube link where you can hear and see the engine with its strange noisehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9A1OMHGR84.
I am sorry that i couldnt come back sooner than now. I just got badly stuck.
:)

[Ash4200]

Hi once again everyone!

It seems as if only this forum can help me out.
Guys, following consulting with a few people on this forum and a few out, i went to a bmw dealer which was just over the border in germany as i live in strasbourg. They took my car into the operating room and the mechanic came out with a bad news. The man said the computer does not tell us what is exactly wrong, nevertheless we think it is the diesel injection pump....and yes you guessed it right, that would cost me 2000 euros=1500 for the pump and 500 for their labour.

As you can understand the cost is horrible paying 500 euros just for the labour forget the pump.

I have put up a video of my car running to display how it sounds and looks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaRww1LwFu8

On this thread nobody told me it could be my injection pump. and as far as the BMW is concerned, they werent sure either. Besides, i dont feel like there is anything wrong with the injection pump based on driving conditions of the vehicle and its performance.

I would like to have your views and opinions. I dont wanna end up paying for something that wouldnt fix the problem. Thanks alot in advance.:)

[stephenslyman]

ash was just checking in to see if you got the problem fixed. im sure youre frustrated at this stage!! its been what, 3 weeks!!! and you took the time to bring it to the garage and they basically said DONT KNOW< DONT CARE.
id agree with you too i think that its not the injector pump.
just a thought...could you (or get somebody) to check to see if the accelerator cable has become stuck? maybe it needs lubrication?????? just a thought!

[Tricky6666]

Replace your MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR (air filter and fuel filter) with the amount of miles you have i would suggest removing and cleaning the ICV,,,,,,,,, These cures should elimnate your problems also replace the coolant temp senso (inexpesive) 30-40 Euros

[lewis michaels]

you know if u want to go and do a full service, u might think it will fix the problem and could end up costing you a lot. (plug wires 100euro + , plugs 20 euro , idle motor/air mass sensor 200euro +

whereas if you bring it to a bmw independant dealer, he can use a diagnostic to find the fault at im sure under 100 euro.
the problem with main dealer mechanics is , They are great but they dont deal with money and to them everything is easier just to replace and throw in new parts. they dont want to spend time messing around, thats why theyre so expensive. find a good independent BMW mechanic. i think thats your next step....

hi there.im new to this forum.ive a bimmer e36,having similar problems to the other chap! the car runs fine most of the time but quite often it idles high when at stops and sometimes feels jerky.ive replaced idle valve,had full service including new plugs and petrol filter.no air leaks.sometimes smells of petrol.im hoping its not petrol pump???

[Ash4200]

Thanks to both stephenslymann and tricky666.
I believe if the accelerator cable was stuck then the idle would be high and wont come down apart from probably once in a while, so that would be less probable.

As far as i think tricky666 has made a number of good points. I will check the mass airflow sensor(the filters i have already changed) and get back with the result. However, i doubt that there is an ICV on a diesel engine, specially my 325 tds, i will go ahead and throw an eye on that as well. But as far as i know there shouldnt be an ICV on mine, because i have been looking it on Realoem.com and there i dont see an icv on my model.

I am not 100 percent sure if i am right so it will be great to have some one correcting my mistakes and shed some more light on these topics; does a 325tds has an icv? and if yes where is it located?
thanks in advance!