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View Full Version : Front passenger speaker died on me.


AzNMpower32
02-22-2008, 04:03 PM
Um okay, at this point, I wished I had told my parents to purchase the extended warranty. :banghead:

A couple days ago (although I just verified today), I realized the front passenger speaker does not work anymore. At all. Any ideas on what you think could be wrong? I really don't want to take this to the stealership...........:eeps:

NO, if you're thinking its because I'm a kid and listen to too much loud music, that's not it. I haven't touched the settings for the audio and it was basically business as usual until I noticed an imbalance in the music one day.

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 09:58 AM
Couple of questions:


Is it both or one front speaker?
Do the back speakers work?
Is the speaker completely dead or distorted?
Have you checked the balance controls?


PM if you like.

Andrew*Debbie
02-26-2008, 10:43 AM
The sound system is not covered by the CPO warranty.


I've got the wiring diagrams if you feel like troubleshooting.

At least 2 Electrical Engineers in this thread already. With our help, I'm sure we can make things far worse than they are now ;)

Ryan M
02-26-2008, 10:54 AM
OMG, when I first read the title of this thread I thought it said "Front passenger died on me." Pheeewwwww, glad to hear it was only a speaker. Damn this dyslexia.

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 11:57 AM
A/D you're an engineer? Should have known, Lol. All the diagrams and details should have been a tip off. Doh.

There always seems to be the grumpy types (me) and the laid back types (you).

Well Azn if they are simply blown I can tell you the exact measurement for replacements if you like. If not we can certainly get this squared away.

AzNMpower32
02-26-2008, 12:08 PM
I don't think they would be blown since the vehicle has not seen any loud music blasting. Okay, once a long time ago, my friend thought it would be very cool to turn the bass and volume up but I quickly overrode that with the steering wheel controls :rofl:

All other speakers and subwoofers continue to work normally. When I set the sound balance right and forwards (to test and see if sound will come out), there is no sound that comes out. When I reset the sound settings to default, the speaker also does not work. It doesn't rattle or sound distorted; nothing comes out.

If there was any wiring I could test, I don't know what to pry off.

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 12:33 PM
Yours is an 04 right? Did they have airbags in the doors? To replace or check the speakers you need to remove the door panels.

I actually had an installer do that, and glad I did since my latest water leak was the result of the vapor barrier being torn. Their insurance is covering the $340.50 charge of which $320 was labor. BTW the install only cost $60 for both doors so it was a good investment.

There is another possibility that it's just a loose connection on the head unit, and that can be easily checked.

A/D to you remember the pin outs for the connections to the H/U? A simple toner attached there would tell if its a bad connection.

I will will click some pictures off on how to look tomorrow if its not still raining.

Azn, forgot to add----if its the premium sound system with seperate components I might have some nice JBL's that will work. 4" components are very hard to find nowadays.

AzNMpower32
02-26-2008, 01:30 PM
I guess prying off the door panel is out of the question, with the airbags being there. Geez this is turning out to be a bigger headache than I imagined it would be. I don't have the premium sound system.

Any way to test for a loose connection from the head unit?

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 02:26 PM
Yes --sent you a PM

Andrew*Debbie
02-26-2008, 05:40 PM
A/D to you remember the pin outs for the connections to the H/U? A simple toner attached there would tell if its a bad connection.



I'll pull up the wiring diagrams tomorrow. I left the DVD at work.

There could be an amplifier module somewhere too.

Panels that have an airbag in them should have "Airbag" printed on them. Taking off anything with an airbag it not something I'd attempt without the shop manual.

=========

Yes I have a BS ECE -- Electrical and Computer engineering. I spent most of my working career writing software. Lately I've gone back to an academic job.

AzNMpower32
02-26-2008, 07:52 PM
Yes --sent you a PM
Send it again; oddly enough I didn't receive it.

dadadave
02-26-2008, 08:59 PM
Just curious... what exactly are the speaker dimensions? Crutchfield doesn't know. My wife's '04 has developed a crackling driver side door speaker and I think it'd be best to go with aftermarket replacements. It has the base sound system. Thx.

Evlengr
02-26-2008, 10:02 PM
The infinty kappa 4 in series are a perfect fit. Crutchfield has them listed. That will give you an idea. The major problem is depth.

They should give dimensions with relation to them....If not I will pull up my notes..no problem.

Hope that helps.

That is strange Azn. Ok will send again in the morning.

Andrew*Debbie
02-27-2008, 02:32 PM
Here is the wiring diagram. This is for the base 6 speaker system for X3 up to 03/2005. Amplifier for the subs. Starting 03 2005 they deleted the Amplifier on the base sound system.


Amplifier only for the subs.

x3ml
02-27-2008, 02:47 PM
Here is the wiring diagram. This is for the base 6 speaker system for X3 up to 03/2005. Amplifier for the subs. Starting 03 2005 they deleted the Amplifier on the base sound system.


Amplifier only for the subs.

No wonder my '07 sounds so crappy, I used to like the '04's base sound system.

Andrew*Debbie
02-27-2008, 03:06 PM
No wonder my '07 sounds so crappy, I used to like the '04's base sound system.


There are 3 systems -- Base, HiFi and Top HiFi.



Both HiFi and Top HiFi drive all speaks through an amplifier with active crossovers.

Top HiFi is the optional Premium Audio System. I'm not sure what we get as the base system in the US. Anyone have their build sheet handy? HiFi is option 676. Top HiFi is option 677.



The wiring diagrams I have aren't clear on what is the base system in a US Spec '07. I'd have to pull the car apart to know. I'm coming down with the flu and don't feel like going outside right now.


If the car has the amplifier, it is A18 in the attached diagram.

Evlengr
02-27-2008, 03:12 PM
A/D they ran the sub woofer input in a series connection from the main speakers? Yikes!

And people wonder why I think the sound can be improved. That will always introduce distortion into the system and possibly back feed the speakers or H/U with transient voltage. Basic no no in sound system development. Maybe that is why they removed it later.

Thanks for the diagram. I wanted it to help determine if the H/U output or wiring was bad by making a connector with pig tails after the H/U, then attach a simple tone generator to see if there was any output.

Andrew*Debbie
02-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Yikes!




Base System:

2004 and early 2005:

Subs are connected to a power amplifier. The amp input is in parallel with the door speakers.

After 03/2005:

Some years have a capacitor crossover on the door speaks. Other years the woofers are in parallel with the door speakers.

Either way it is not going to sound very good.


HiFi and Top HiFi. The head unit is connected to an amplifier. Amplifier contains active crossovers. Each speaker is driven by the amplifer.

I'm not sure if the head unit is using line outs to the amplifier or if they are using the same speaker outputs.


FWIW Alpine builds most of the car audio for BMW. Used to be Pioneer, but they changed to Alpine in the '90s.

Evlengr
02-27-2008, 04:59 PM
Oops not paying attention to the diagram. Point is that should have a seperate line level going to the amp. Oh well. Pin outs help enough to track the problem at hand.

Mystic1
02-27-2008, 05:52 PM
A*D, we have an amp in that A18 location on ours, and it was manufactured 04/2005. So does that mean there is a different amp there, or it is just wired differently?

AzNMpower32
03-06-2008, 03:20 PM
I just got off the phone with the folks at Myer-Emco. The earliest they can do the install would be next week and they would need to order the parts as they don't have the Alpine 4" speakers in stock. Hopefully I'll place the order next week and get it installed the following week when I come back from school.

I was quoted $120 for the speakers and $100 for total installation.

AzNMpower32
03-24-2008, 12:17 PM
I got a new set of Alpine speakers installed this past weekend. Quite a good deal too! There was a stack of 4" basic Alpine speakers on clearance at Myer-Emco, so I bought a set and had them installed. Cost: $50 + $100 installation = $150.

There is a noticeable improvement in the clarity and response with the speakers, now it's probably on par with the factory premium sound system. It's certainly not amazing but I really didn't care to "upgrade", rather just "replace". In the grand scheme of things, it's actually a pretty good deal that I'd recommend to anyone. The old speakers were definitely muddy at times, and these new ones have solved that issue. :)

Evlengr
03-24-2008, 01:01 PM
Glad to hear it worked out.

So riddle me this. How much more is the cost difference of the "Premium Sound" system?

AzNMpower32
03-24-2008, 01:37 PM
Glad to hear it worked out.

So riddle me this. How much more is the cost difference of the "Premium Sound" system?
It has been proven that convenience and luxury options are the biggest profit makers for manufacturers. Audio and sat nav systems are cash cows..........I've always known this. But there are folks who don't want to deal with warranty and stuff. Replacing a broken speaker isn't much work and not much can go wrong. But if I were to say, convert the sound system into a surround sound system.........well that's something I'm not willing to let any aftermarket company do.

Evlengr
03-24-2008, 02:06 PM
My point as you are aware is that its cheaper to upgrade the speakers then it is to "Upgrade" the sound system.

The surround system they use is not dsp but just EQ settings so not really surround to begin with.

So you can always upgrade the speakers cheaper and leave them there when you get rid of it with a lower cost association.

Glad it worked in the end room. Maybe you will want to do that with the back speakers as well.

AzNMpower32
03-24-2008, 05:34 PM
My point as you are aware is that its cheaper to upgrade the speakers then it is to "Upgrade" the sound system.

The surround system they use is not dsp but just EQ settings so not really surround to begin with.

So you can always upgrade the speakers cheaper and leave them there when you get rid of it with a lower cost association.

Glad it worked in the end room. Maybe you will want to do that with the back speakers as well.
I was referring to the Logic7 surround in the E90. That is a very good sound system; it leaves me wondering what the BMW Individual Audio sounds like in Europe (it's available on the E9x over there for an even higher cost).

dashiell
03-25-2008, 02:52 AM
Evl, I bought my '08 X3 with the Premium sound, it's good, but certainly not great. My question for you is, what is real DSP, and what is it that BMW is trying to pass off as DSP ?
BTW, I don't have the trans. problems that you have(knock on wood), but I have to say that coming out of an '05 X5 whose shifting(up and down) was imperceptible, this thing shifts like a Peterbilt.

Evlengr
03-25-2008, 08:02 AM
"Real DSP" is using time and space differential algorithms that take analog to the digital domain and then back to analog.

BMW is not the only one passing off their systems as DSP, but this is a BMW site so....

In the world of audio it is to help create an environment that gives "Depth" to the audio.

This is done in part by seperating out the frequencies and using different delay factors under the "Fourier Transform". It changes the "Attack and Delay" of the component sounds.

For Example: A typical rock band is only represented as left to right on a conventional sound system. Whereas a good DSP sound system will have the lead singer out front, the bassist to the left, the lead quitarist to the right, keyboard player to far right, and drummer, back some behind the singer.

BMW's dsp uses an old fashion tecnique similar to "Reverb or Plate" combined with EQ to approximate that effect, and is therefore not really DSP.

So it isn't really creating that effect but approximating it by hitting a wide range of frequencies...kind of a shotgun approach, not target specific.

I will give BMW some credit with their premium sound systems. Their tuners are very good if not in the excellent category.

The sound reinforcement is good, but for the same money you can get better. Kind of like when you buy better shocks or tires that are meant for a specific application such as hill climbing, or snow.


Why split hairs on this? Because there is DSP out there such as the Alpine PXE-H650 http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PXE-H650 that will cost you the same amount and give you more. Plus I don't like when company's misrepresent information as fact.