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klu123
04-11-2008, 09:15 AM
I looked at X6 xDrive35. Its sleek back, 4-door-coupe type of silhouette makes it look more like a 5 than an X5. Then an immediate question is - why you need an X6?

X6 vs 535xi: their lengths are about the same. Trunk space? very close (again X6 is closer to a sedan/coupe than to a wagen, not surprised its trunk is not much bigger than that in a 5). Same 300hp TT engine, same xDrvie AWD. About the same price (X6 is about $1k more but with leather as std).

The diffs are: X6 is about 7 inch taller than 5. and more importantly, about 1000lb heavier, almost 1 sec slower in 0-60 (6.5 vs. 5.6), and consumes more gas (20 vs 25 MPG on highway).

So why you buy an X6 instead of a 535xi? 535xi has about the same all-weather capability, baggage space, but it's much lighter, agile and exciting to drive than a 5000 lb S(whatever)V. If you do need the space to carry your gears for skiing or camping, well, X6's trunk is too small. You'd better to get a X5.

In the $50 range (base price), we have 3 perfect choices - M3 (extreme sports), 5 (sports+luxury) and X5 (sports+space). Maybe some of you could educate me, but I really don't understand what the X6 is for?

LMC
04-11-2008, 09:38 AM
I agree. It will be interesting to see if the X6 is a sales success.

It seems to me that you can also see the X6 as an X5 upgrade. Buyer is interested in X5, then sees X6....hmmm....similar mechanicals but upgraded power and sportier and swoopier styling. Worth the extra money? That buyer will not compare the X6 with the 5er.

And all because the federal government subsidizes "trucks" ostensibly to spare small commerical users, thereby feeding the SUV/truck frenzy. :tsk:

PalBay
04-11-2008, 10:21 AM
I looked at X6 xDrive35. Its sleek back, 4-door-coupe type of silhouette makes it look more like a 5 than an X5. Then an immediate question is - why you need an X6?

X6 vs 535xi: their lengths are about the same. Trunk space? very close (again X6 is closer to a sedan/coupe than to a wagen, not surprised its trunk is not much bigger than that in a 5). Same 300hp TT engine, same xDrvie AWD. About the same price (X6 is about $1k more but with leather as std).

The diffs are: X6 is about 7 inch taller than 5. and more importantly, about 1000lb heavier, almost 1 sec slower in 0-60 (6.5 vs. 5.6), and consumes more gas (20 vs 25 MPG on highway).

So why you buy an X6 instead of a 535xi? 535xi has about the same all-weather capability, baggage space, but it's much lighter, agile and exciting to drive than a 5000 lb S(whatever)V. If you do need the space to carry your gears for skiing or camping, well, X6's trunk is too small. You'd better to get a X5.

In the $50 range (base price), we have 3 perfect choices - M3 (extreme sports), 5 (sports+luxury) and X5 (sports+space). Maybe some of you could educate me, but I really don't understand what the X6 is for? I usually hang out on most of the X6 forums.I am a big fan and it will be my next car.First and foremost,I just like the way the car looks.I don't know if you have seen an X6 upclose,but it is very different in the metal.From across a parking lot,it looks like a sedan.Once up close,it is a big vehicle. I have owned a Cadillac SRX( big mistake), a G35x,and an Audi A4 Avant quattro,all decent cars.I travel for a living and basically work out of my car.I also carry customers and clients in my car on a regular basis.I need a certain amt of elbow room.The A4 and G35 just were to tight w/ 3 or 4 people in the car.Any traditional sedan is just to tight for my needs.I also need to carry files and luggage in the car.The SRX was junk.I considered an X5 prior to getting my X3.For me the X5 is just to "trucky".Probably the best SUV around but just not my style.If you have seen the X5 and the X6 go down the Performance Center track as I have,the visual differences in the X5 and X6 are staggering.The X5 looks like a truck going around the track,the X6 looks like a sports car( the look thing again).I want my cake and eat it to.I want sports car looks and performance w/ some,not all,SUV utility.A little ground clearence is not a bad thing.I replaced two under engine guards on the A4-hitting truck tire treads at 75MPH on the interstate at night.I do need the ability to drive a little off road,I'm in the real estate business.Not talking rock crawling.I need to look at real estate sites.You can forget that w/ any traditional sedan.The X6 is the perfect vehicle for me and I would quess a few more thousand around the world.The X6 has Dynamic Performance Control(DPC) which is exclusive to the X6 and not the same as Xdrive.The DPC is the reason for the X6's outstanding handling.Just wanted to give my two cents worth.Thanks. PalBay

LMC
04-11-2008, 11:12 AM
I appreciate your post. But if the X6 attracts X3/X5 owners like you, won't it be a sales failure? If BMW sells 5,000 X6s but all of those would have bought X3s or X5s, then there is no net sales gain. (Actually, I suspect there will be a little more profit margin in the X6, so very small net gain.)

In order for the X6 to be a success for BMW, it has to attract buyers who would not otherwise buy a BMW, yes? :dunno:

Then the other interesting (and much larger) question is: If the govt imposed a single guzzler tax on ALL vehicles....how many people would buy a relatively fuel-inefficient AWD/4WD tall vehicle with large internal volume? I suspect that the answer would be that you would still buy it -- if the selling price of the X6 increased by a couple of thousand (guzzler tax) you would be able to write it off as (at least partly) business expense. But what about the X5s and X6s bought as "family cars?" :dunno:

I usually hang out on most of the X6 forums. I am a big fan and it will be my next car.

PalBay
04-11-2008, 12:41 PM
I appreciate your post. But if the X6 attracts X3/X5 owners like you, won't it be a sales failure? If BMW sells 5,000 X6s but all of those would have bought X3s or X5s, then there is no net sales gain. (Actually, I suspect there will be a little more profit margin in the X6, so very small net gain.)

In order for the X6 to be a success for BMW, it has to attract buyers who would not otherwise buy a BMW, yes? :dunno:

Then the other interesting (and much larger) question is: If the govt imposed a single guzzler tax on ALL vehicles....how many people would buy a relatively fuel-inefficient AWD/4WD tall vehicle with large internal volume? I suspect that the answer would be that you would still buy it -- if the selling price of the X6 increased by a couple of thousand (guzzler tax) you would be able to write it off as (at least partly) business expense. But what about the X5s and X6s bought as "family cars?" :dunno: I don't think the question is whether the X6 is going to ding X3 or X5 sales.If the X6 were available at the time of my purchase,the X6 would have been my choice.I would not have bought the X5(maybe left the brand),and the X3 was not a perfect choice,it had enought things I wanted(to keep me in the brand),I could live with it until the X6 was available (I've been following its development a very long time).Someone who is already in the BMW brand and has already eliminated the X5 from consideration for some of the same reasons I did, would more than likely move to another brand.I'm actually hearing from alot of BMW owners who say when leases are up or they are ready to trade,they are coming out of sedans-3 series,5series,etc to pickup an X6.I think alot people drive smaller cars,but secretly, deep down really want something fun to drive,looks good,and has more utililty than their sedan and more elbow room-you have just then described the X6.I think the exact same story applies to non BMW drivers-a fun to drive,looks good,big enough,vehicle is hard to find.I'm not sure about tax credits,etc.I'm just a huge auto enthusiast who uses his daily driver as my hobby.I don't have any other hobbies other my car,if I did or did not get a certain tax break,it would make no difference at all on the type car I purchased.If anything,the X6 because it's so different and unique,will actually pull people into the dealership and after studying the X family might opt for not an X6 but in fact buy an X5 or X3,actually increasing BMW's overall sales. Thanks. PalBay

klu123
04-14-2008, 09:39 AM
I usually hang out on most of the X6 forums.I am a big fan and it will be my next car.First and foremost,I just like the way the car looks.I don't know if you have seen an X6 upclose,but it is very different in the metal.From across a parking lot,it looks like a sedan.Once up close,it is a big vehicle. I have owned a Cadillac SRX( big mistake), a G35x,and an Audi A4 Avant quattro,all decent cars.I travel for a living and basically work out of my car.I also carry customers and clients in my car on a regular basis.I need a certain amt of elbow room.The A4 and G35 just were to tight w/ 3 or 4 people in the car.Any traditional sedan is just to tight for my needs.I also need to carry files and luggage in the car.The SRX was junk.I considered an X5 prior to getting my X3.For me the X5 is just to "trucky".Probably the best SUV around but just not my style.If you have seen the X5 and the X6 go down the Performance Center track as I have,the visual differences in the X5 and X6 are staggering.The X5 looks like a truck going around the track,the X6 looks like a sports car( the look thing again).I want my cake and eat it to.I want sports car looks and performance w/ some,not all,SUV utility.A little ground clearence is not a bad thing.I replaced two under engine guards on the A4-hitting truck tire treads at 75MPH on the interstate at night.I do need the ability to drive a little off road,I'm in the real estate business.Not talking rock crawling.I need to look at real estate sites.You can forget that w/ any traditional sedan.The X6 is the perfect vehicle for me and I would quess a few more thousand around the world.The X6 has Dynamic Performance Control(DPC) which is exclusive to the X6 and not the same as Xdrive.The DPC is the reason for the X6's outstanding handling.Just wanted to give my two cents worth.Thanks. PalBay
Thank you for your post. I agree to many, X5 is still too SUV-lish, they want sth more like a sports car. But what I still don't understand is - why not 5? It'll give you a much more sports-car-like driving experience than a 5000lb vehicle.

I have a 535xi, and I sat in X6 last week. The interior space in X6 is close to that in 5, except a little bit wide. The trunk space is little bit larger than that in 5, but still in the size class of a sedan rather than that in a wagen/SUV. By picking an X6 instead of a 5, you give up some performance and agility, but what do you get?

I might be to dump to understand. I asked the same question to dealer "X6 over 535xi - what do I get?". No clear answer.

1985mb
04-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Thank you for your post. I agree to many, X5 is still too SUV-lish, they want sth more like a sports car. But what I still don't understand is - why not 5? It'll give you a much more sports-car-like driving experience than a 5000lb vehicle.

I have a 535xi, and I sat in X6 last week. The interior space in X6 is close to that in 5, except a little bit wide. The trunk space is little bit larger than that in 5, but still in the size class of a sedan rather than that in a wagen/SUV. By picking an X6 instead of a 5, you give up some performance and agility, but what do you get?

I might be to dump to understand. I asked the same question to dealer "X6 over 535xi - what do I get?". No clear answer.

Yeah, that reminds me of all the reviews of the X3 when it first came out. The reviews I read mentioned how it had less capacity than an equivalent 3-series wagon (then E46), which could also be had with AWD. Plus the car had better handling, feel, etc. Was probably cheaper, too.

So the person looking for a BMW with AWD and X cubic feet cargo capacity was rationally much better off buying an E46Xi wagon. BMW still ended up sellling many X3s - maybe something to do with the US market where buyers seem to prefer "SUVs" over wagons.

I wonder what the cargo capacity of the 535XiT is vs the X6

mkh
04-14-2008, 03:39 PM
The biggest difference between the X6 and the 5-series/X5 is the looks. If you think the X6 looks like a 5-series, I don't know what to say. To me, the X6 looks like a jacked-up Z4. A lot of people (mostly in US) like tall ride height but don't like the boxy X5 will go for the X6. And those who hate the look of a wagon will never buy a 535xi no matter how they compare (me included). Within BMW, which model has a tall ride height but looks like a sport coupe with a slanted hatchback? BMW X-series are never for utility. They are more for SUV like ride height and coupe like feeling/performance. Maybe that's the reason they called them SAV.

klu123
04-16-2008, 07:54 AM
Well, I'm comparing X6 to X5 SUV and 5er sedan, since we all know wagen is not popular in this country. I remember I saw a movie (forgot the name). A guy wanted to borrow a car from his friend, his friend threw him a key. "A Bimmer, great!". Seconds later, "Holy ****, it's a wagen!"

Wagen is more practicle, you get the space of SUV, and the hadling/fuel economy of sedan, but for whatever reasons, most people don't want to be seen driving a wagen, even it's a BMW. For similar reasons, many stylish drivers don't want to drive a mini-van. So basically there are only 3 choices left: sports car (coupe/convertible), sedan and SUV. Whatever you choose, you get something and give up something else.

Back to the original point, X6 over X5 - you give up space, but you don't get more performance (similar weight and height). X6 over 5 sedan - you give up performance, but you don't get more space. X6 over M3 - with that much height and weight, forget sports car-like feeling and performance. So again what do you get? Sorry I still don't get it.

mkh
04-16-2008, 10:02 AM
Back to the original point, X6 over X5 - you give up space, but you don't get more performance (similar weight and height). X6 over 5 sedan - you give up performance, but you don't get more space. X6 over M3 - with that much height and weight, forget sports car-like feeling and performance. So again what do you get? Sorry I still don't get it.
I don't understand why you don't get it. Please tell me which BMW can you get with a SUV RIDE HEIGHT and a NON-SUV LOOK? The X5 looks like a typical SUV and both the 5-series and M3 don't have the ride height. Space and Performance are NOT the top priorities for the X6 buyers. In other words, the X6 is a marketing demand, not a functional demand. Is it obvious?

klu123
04-16-2008, 10:55 AM
"... Performance are NOT the top priorities for the X6 buyers"? Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the typical BMW buyers are very performance oriented. "Ultimate drving machine", that clearly spells what BMW is about.

Well, ride height vs. sports car-like meneuvability, it's always a dilemma. If you want to sit high, you can't drive it in the way you do in a coupe or even sedan, e.g., making sharp turns. I remember the discussion of whether there will be an M version of X5. No matter what MB did with its ML55/ML63, BMW decided not to bring X5-M to market, because no matter how many hp you put in, you can't drive a high-gravity-center vehicle like you do in an M car. It is the law of physics.

But I do get your other point, the look, or style. X6 is the only coupe-like S(whatever)V on market, at least now. In other words, its style is unique. That might be important to someone, and those "someone" might be the X6 buyers.

sp7
04-16-2008, 11:11 AM
You also have to understand the difference in two markets...Europe = station wagons
USA = SUV's.
I love our 535xi...handles like a BMW not a truck. If you are looking for comfort, ride, and drive abilitly, you really missed the boat by not including the 535xi in your test drives.

A wonderful car with easy to load cargo space. A winner and did I mention the gas mileage is much better than the suv

mkh
04-16-2008, 11:59 AM
"... Performance are NOT the top priorities for the X6 buyers"? Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the typical BMW buyers are very performance oriented. "Ultimate drving machine", that clearly spells what BMW is about.

Well, ride height vs. sports car-like meneuvability, it's always a dilemma. If you want to sit high, you can't drive it in the way you do in a coupe or even sedan, e.g., making sharp turns. I remember the discussion of whether there will be an M version of X5. No matter what MB did with its ML55/ML63, BMW decided not to bring X5-M to market, because no matter how many hp you put in, you can't drive a high-gravity-center vehicle like you do in an M car. It is the law of physics.

But I do get your other point, the look, or style. X6 is the only coupe-like S(whatever)V on market, at least now. In other words, its style is unique. That might be important to someone, and those "someone" might be the X6 buyers.
Well, if you think the typical BMW buyers in US are very performance oriented, then you are quite wrong. You are correct thinking that the typical members/posters here are very performance oriented, but not the general public. Also, when I said performance is not their TOP priority literally means they are willing to compromise some performance to get what they more prefer (ie. ride height, looks, comfort, convenience, etc.).

Being in America, you don't know that ride height is a big thing to a lot of buyers? That's the main reason why BMW started making X5, and then X3 because they don't want to give up this market share, same as Porsche with the Cayenne and Q7 with Audi even though they all know that it is against performance. Just go out and see how many SUVs are running on the streets. And this is only true to the US market but not any other countries. It's weird but it's a fact.

dolphin77
04-17-2008, 04:54 AM
Most folks that will buy the X6, and I will be among them, are at an age that they REALLY like the height of the seat from the ground because it makes for much easier ingress and egress....the X6 looks like a really great daily driver.....D7

TGray5
04-20-2008, 12:48 PM
Most folks that will buy the X6, and I will be among them, are at an age that they REALLY like the height of the seat from the ground because it makes for much easier ingress and egress....the X6 looks like a really great daily driver.....D7

haha, no offense, but if you have trouble getting into a 5 series sedan due to your age, you might be too old to drive.

klu123
04-21-2008, 09:16 AM
Most folks that will buy the X6, and I will be among them, are at an age that they REALLY like the height of the seat from the ground because it makes for much easier ingress and egress....the X6 looks like a really great daily driver.....D7
I believe everyone has his right to pick whatever he likes (and of course, can afford), but I bet this is not what BMW want to hear. No automaker wants to have its products perceived as something for senior citizens, even they are. Caddy and Lincoln have been trying hard to remove the label of "old man's car".

TMQ
04-21-2008, 06:48 PM
When BMW introduced the X3, it's really a niche market. The sale has been relatively small but I hope overall profitable for BMW. X3 is a pretty good deal, comparing to the 328xiT. ($ for feature wise.)

X6 is an even smaller niche. It's for people who want to sit taller and have good performance. Basically, an upgrade from X3 in performance category while suffering a bit utility. How big is this market? We'll find out. This platform is shared with X5, and the new technologies like torque vectoring will go to other BMW vehicles, so probably not that much more expensive for BMW.

Ron_jeremy
04-23-2008, 03:48 AM
When BMW introduced the X3, it's really a niche market. The sale has been relatively small but I hope overall profitable for BMW
The X3 have done very well in Europe, where the demand for more compact SUV are much higher than for it's big brother E53 and E70.
;)
Niche marked, well that's X6 all the way imo.
:D
I like it, but it's not for everyone, expensive and sexy car, like the 6 -but with a bit more practical body, ride hight, and space.

And don't compare an SUV (X6) to a E61.
If you should compare the X6 to anything, it would be other SUV, in particular, Cayenne and E70 itself.
And with this comparison, the X6 drive great, better than anything in the SUV world!
:thumbup:
It's a new class of cars, and i think we'll see a few more competitors along the road, remember CLS, what was the point in this car, you have the E and the S, but it did well, and now we see BMW and Audi working on this type of car as well, VW is already out with theyr "CLS".
:eek: