128vs135

[superstock]

Anyone else feel like these guys? They make some good points about having to work for your speed and the difference in price can buy some really nice tire and suspension upgrades.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/editors_notebook/0807_2008_bmw_128i/marc_noordeloos.html

[RockyRoad]

Yup... I do...:thumbup:

[traffic]

Interesting. Is there an official weight difference for the two models?

I would think with two less turbos and its associated plumbing, there would be close to 70lb difference off the front of the car? Hm, this could be worth a look into. A stripped out 128i and then add in your own lightweight wheels, suspension and brakes.

[BlackJetE90]

Sure, like the article said if you don't need twin turbos, xenon headlights, aero kit, big brakes, and 18 inch wheels. And a couple other things they didn't mention.

If you just want a nice smooth commuter car, get the 128i.

But on the other hand it is hard to argue that the extra $6k isn't worth all the 135i features.

Lets say you did buy the 128i and couple years later you wanted some more power. You could never find a aftermarket turbo upgrade for under $6k installed, not even close. Not mentioned no factory warranty.

[jkp1187]

Interesting. Is there an official weight difference for the two models?

I would think with two less turbos and its associated plumbing, there would be close to 70lb difference off the front of the car? Hm, this could be worth a look into. A stripped out 128i and then add in your own lightweight wheels, suspension and brakes.


128i: 3252 lbs. (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/bmw/1series/100974974/specs.html)
135i: 3373 lbs. (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/bmw/1series/100974975/specs.html)

(Note that the 135i comes standard with a few other things that may increase weight, such as 18" wheels, and comes out the door with the sport suspension, which is an extra option for the 128i.)

[superstock]

I honestly think the 120lbs would make it worth it to buy the lighter model. For me the 18's don't do anythign but add unsprung weight and make the ride worse. The sport suspension is a debatable improvement; a set of coilovers would be better than anything BMW gives you. I would still get the sport package in either case because that would give you the nicer seats. The other improvements are simple bells and whistles. Nice but I can live without a body kit and xenons.

But if your goal is to have a light, tossable car i would have to say the 128 is probably a better platform. Power is nice but any amount eventually gets old.

The best reason is still the 5-6k you save over the 135. With that money you could turn your 128 into a little road/track monster with a full suspension, lsd and a bit of weight removal. Under 3200lbs is definitely doable. Perhaps the 128 is really the choice for racing? No overheating problems, no need to upgrade oil coolers, intercoolers, etc?

[traffic]

So I have a '91 MR2 turbo with T-tops as my track car. My buddy has a '95 MR2 non-turbo with hardtop as his track car. Now we are both good drivers. He's a touch better driver than I am. On slightly tighter tracks, he's able to lap within 1 second of my lap times. Is he THAT good? Well, yes and no. I drove his car (we have the same suspension, brakes, and tire setup but his car is 200lbs lighter, slightly stiffer chassis, he gives up hp, but has great throttle response) and I was able to carry more corner speed. The added weight and less throttle response of my turbo just wouldn't let me stay right on the edge like I could with his car. Although my car is reinforced to account for the t-tops (adds weight too) I can still feel the extra flex in the chassis compared to his hardtop with no sunroof. No doubt with less weight, he could brake a touch later as well. In addition, I'd have to out accelerate him on the straights but be going faster to "catch up" before hitting the braking zone. Since I am going higher speed, I have brake earlier.

There is a great sense of satisfaction of beating a higher hp car on the track. The combination of slightly lighter weight, better weight balance, better throttle response allows for quicker times through the tight sections.

Of course, when we get on the street and I take my t-tops off and blow him away with my mid-range torque, all is forgotten. But I do feel frustrated to be hampered with wrestling with vague throttle response. Especially when the turbos just start to spool and you go from low torque to high torque within a couple hundred rpms. This is really tough to manage when all your traction is going to making the corner.

I would think with the 128 (and even the 135) the first thing to do is toss the OEM suspension and find good spring/shock combo or go coilovers. Shod the OEM rims with sticky tires and pick up a set of aftermarkets to run on the street. Or just pick up something very lightweight in the smallest diameter that'll fit the brakes and put some r-compounds or at least some max grip tires.

For me, it's not necessarily the price. But what the car can do. On the track, it'll make a difference. But on the street, I can see the 135i would be the preferred choice for it's stock power and modability.

[JetBlack5OC]

128i is a good car. The NA 128i engine has plenty of pep for the small 1-series.

[ptack]

I'm doubtful a 128i has more potential than a 135i. The people who are putting their money where their mouths are in terms of racing 1s seem to have all chosen 135is, not 128s.

[traffic]

I'm doubtful a 128i has more potential than a 135i. The people who are putting their money where their mouths are in terms of racing 1s seem to have all chosen 135is, not 128s.

I don't think anyone ever mentioned the 128i having more potential. Just a better track car for the masses.

I'm sure you can fit the 135i with larger intercooler and oil cooler to manage the heat. But you just don't get quite the connection to the mechanics with a turbo as you do with an NA. That is not to say that a 128i will lap faster than a 135i. On the countrary, it may be slower, but the driving pleasure and satisfaction is different.

Probably the same reason I run my MR2 near wastegate on the track for more linear power delivery and modulation through the corners. I'm probably putting down about 180whp. That way I focus on improving my braking and cornering vs leaning on the extra power to keep my lap times low.

Running at higher boost has me wrestling with torque variations as the boost builds. Once the boost builds, you can't back off or else you go from 170ftlbs of torque, instantly to 130ftlbs. In an NA, your torque is just dependant on rpms.

The only plus to a turbo is when I'm driving home, I can crank my boost back up to street trim and run 220whp. Again, I don't like the power delivery when I'm at high boost (250whp) so it's a waste for me.

BUT...I will admit I've never driven an inline 6 with two small turbos. So we'll just have to try it out.


I'm sure those that

[FranT41]

Anyone else feel like these guys? They make some good points about having to work for your speed and the difference in price can buy some really nice tire and suspension upgrades.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/editors_notebook/0807_2008_bmw_128i/marc_noordeloos.html

Yes, the folks at Car and Driver: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/the_coupe_coop/2008_bmw_128i_short_take_road_test

[EricG]

Anyone else feel like these guys?

Not I... I'm stuck deciding between a M3 sedan and the 135i. I want the power.

[superstock]

Not I... I'm stuck deciding between a M3 sedan and the 135i. I want the power.

Different strokes for different folks. You can't really use the extra power on the street so it is pointless to me. Maybe a few on ramps or highway pulls, that is about it. For someone like me who wants to simply drive and occasionally take some some track/autox time I think the 128 would be more suited. If no track time in your future then a 135 would be good. If lots of track time than definitely get the M3.

[superstock]

Yes, the folks at Car and Driver: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/the_coupe_coop/2008_bmw_128i_short_take_road_test

Nice that others agree.

[rsxtypes7900]

The 128 is definately a great car and I can agree that under normal conditions a flat torque curve of an NA engine can really make the throttle inputs very predictable when compared to a turbo.

However many of the dyno charts I have seen for the 135/335 have a very flat torque curve. The turbos are relatively small and therefore there is minimal lag if they are tuned correctly. Anyway, I like the look of the 135 better (ie the aero package, rims, brakes etc) so if I ever decide to get one that will be it.

However, the 128 is not a bad car for the $. And anytime you compare building up a lower model that costs less with aftermarket parts it will beat the higher model 9 of 10 times. if you put the difference in $ b/w the M3 and the 335, the 335 would be just as fast. Like someone said, different strokes for different folks

[EricG]

Different strokes for different folks. You can't really use the extra power on the street so it is pointless to me. Maybe a few on ramps or highway pulls, that is about it. For someone like me who wants to simply drive and occasionally take some some track/autox time I think the 128 would be more suited. If no track time in your future then a 135 would be good. If lots of track time than definitely get the M3.

I guess I need to point out my location... I drive autobahn everyday. Not exactly track, but I do get the chance to test the upper limits often.

[RockyRoad]

I guess I need to point out my location... I drive autobahn everyday. Not exactly track, but I do get the chance to test the upper limits often.

Yup, that does make a difference. If I lived in Germany I would have opted for the 135i Cabrio..
But in North America, the 128i is more than adequate.

[uncle ken]

Yup, that does make a difference. If I lived in Germany I would have opted for the 135i Cabrio..
But in North America, the 128i is more than adequate.

That's a fairly sweeping generalization. Southern Ontario is not representative of all of North America. Some of our southwestern roads are somewhat more wide open than the 401. Crossing the desert on a hot August afternoon - say Phoenix to Palm Springs - it's nice to have all the horsies you can muster. Nothing wrong with the 128i, but I choose column 'B'.

[RockyRoad]

That's a fairly sweeping generalization. Southern Ontario is not representative of all of North America. Some of our southwestern roads are somewhat more wide open than the 401. Crossing the desert on a hot August afternoon - say Phoenix to Palm Springs - it's nice to have all the horsies you can muster. Nothing wrong with the 128i, but I choose column 'B'.
I've travelled the hiways to Palm Springs a number of times and I do not recall any stretch of those hiways where I would be able come anywhere near close to using the capabilities of a 128i, let alone a 135i ..
IMHO, In North America, the only rational reason for a 135i is if you AutoX or track your vehicle. Even then, I think a 128i with std tranny would be a great little car.

[BlackJetE90]

I've travelled the hiways to Palm Springs a number of times and I do not recall any stretch of those hiways where I would be able come anywhere near close to using the capabilities of a 128i, let alone a 135i .

Umm, you sure you have driven from phoenix to palm springs?


IMHO, In North America, the only rational reason for a 135i is if you AutoX or track your vehicle. Even then, I think a 128i with std tranny would be a great little car.

I guess we should just stop building all performance cars, since technically no one really needs one, right?

[uncle ken]

Umm, you sure you have driven from phoenix to palm springs? I guess we should just stop building all performance cars, since technically no one really needs one, right?

That's where I was going, you said it much better. There are many places in the west and mountain states where it's nice to be able to cruise at 'reasonable velocities' without beating up the engine. To be able to pass a Volkswagen following a Winnebago behind a truck going up a 10 mile grade right now without undue exposure. And just to get across those big empty stretches before you have to stop for a shave.

Eastern Washington, August 2006

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l453/rentiers/crc2.jpg

The car below (mine) is on cruise control between El Paso and San Antonio. Speedo is typically optimistic. 600 miles, 7 hours. That's long enough! (Road is posted 80 MPH). Note tach - I averaged 24.5 MPG on this stretch. Taken late December 2006.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l453/rentiers/Cruise-Control.jpg

Road below looks like a great 128 road - except this one is at 11,000 feet. Nice to have turbos up here! October 2007.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l453/rentiers/crc3.jpg


It's nice to have choices. That's all I was trying to say. Give me a car that's a running sunnuvabitch every time!

[jkp1187]

Nice pics....but last I checked, the 128i's speed limiter was 130 MPH, 150 MPH with the sports package, so no worries there!

Plus, those road sure look flat and straight. Perfect for a Camaro. Less so for a Bimmer, no?

Not saying that you shouldn't get a 135i. If that's what you want, go for it. It is a sweet ride. But the mere existence of the 135i does not mean that the 128i should not be considered. It is a fine vehicle in its own right.

[ptack]

Both cars are great, but to be honest the added benefit to owning a 135i is not at all rational. That's really not such a crazy statement as the whole process of buying cars is pretty irrational. Car companies don't spend billions of dollars on marketing just to present quantitative arguments that their products are superior. They know that most people don't use logic to buy a car. Emotion is a huge factor (and then we rationalize the gap between that and logic). Having recognized that, I still went ahead and bought a 135i because the yeehaa experience was worth it to me, so guilty as charged.

[superstock]

Well put, the turbos are there only for your inner hooligan redneck. Yeehaaw indeed.

[ptack]

and God bless us, everyone!

[Tom K.]

That's a fairly sweeping generalization. Southern Ontario is not representative of all of North America. Some of our southwestern roads are somewhat more wide open than the 401. Crossing the desert on a hot August afternoon - say Phoenix to Palm Springs - it's nice to have all the horsies you can muster. Nothing wrong with the 128i, but I choose column 'B'.
We crossed the Nevada desert (Vegas to Reno) in early August in our 128i convertible and never needed more power. Ditto with the 107o temps in Kansas and 103o in northern CA. While most passing was easily done in 5th or 4th, 3rd gear provides a great rush from 50 to 100 mph, even at 5,000 ft altitudes. In addition to having to engage one's driving skills for maximum performance on the 128i, it's also nice not to worry about fuel pump failures and to enjoy the 28 mpg at 80 mph.
Tom

[traffic]

That's a fairly sweeping generalization. Southern Ontario is not representative of all of North America. Some of our southwestern roads are somewhat more wide open than the 401. Crossing the desert on a hot August afternoon - say Phoenix to Palm Springs - it's nice to have all the horsies you can muster. Nothing wrong with the 128i, but I choose column 'B'.

My problem with turbos is heat and the extra hardware and plumbing. More points to fail.

As far as desert performance, the heat can impact a turbos performance more than an NA.

If the new 3.0 inline 6 is a much improved motor over what was in the e46 330i, then I think I am fine with the power. It won't have the power potential of the TT motor, but sounds like a rock solid platform.

I need a test drive...

[former]

For me, I guess it's all what I expect from the "BMW experience." Way back when, in 1996 when I considered my first 3 series, I first drove the 323. I liked it. A lot. And then, I made the mistake.

I drove the 328.

That extra punch, the extra smiles and the rush is what - from that moment forward - defined the BMW experience to me. Does the 128 have an adequate engine? You bet. Is the 135 more fun? Absolutely.

It won't be worth the extra money to some, and I know plenty of folks have been bitten by maintenance problems over the years from older turbo engines. But, we have had nary an issue with my wife's 335 coupe and I'm looking forward to getting back into the Bimmer experience again in October.

[traffic]

One thing I should mention is that my concern for turbo motor reliability is aimed towards a track car. I don't have much issues with them on the street. In fact, I love my MR2 turbo on the street. I hate it on the track. The throttle modulation is nowhere as crisp. And it's too much torque available mid-corner.

On the street, the mid-range torque punch is a hoot!