How crazy am I?

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

OK... So I've been sitting here adding up how much autoxing/tracking my Barge has cost me and will continue to cost me...

Then I've been looking at how much it would cost to pick up an old E30/early E36 and use it as a beater track/autox car. The costs are beginning to look pretty similar. :eeps:

(And yes, I know Clyde wants me to buy an old Mustang... But I really don't particularly want one.)

[JST]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
OK... So I've been sitting here adding up how much autoxing/tracking my Barge has cost me and will continue to cost me...

Then I've been looking at how much it would cost to pick up an old E30/early E36 and use it as a beater track/autox car. The costs are beginning to look pretty similar. :eeps:

(And yes, I know Clyde wants me to buy an old Mustang... But I really don't particularly want one.)

Mustang...

Mustang...

Mustang...

Or, instead of getting two cars, you could sell the barge and buy an E36 M3 convertible. I know of one for sale.

[nate]

Are you including event costs and maintainance? Those don't change depending on what car you have...

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
OK... So I've been sitting here adding up how much autoxing/tracking my Barge has cost me and will continue to cost me...

Then I've been looking at how much it would cost to pick up an old E30/early E36 and use it as a beater track/autox car. The costs are beginning to look pretty similar. :eeps:

(And yes, I know Clyde wants me to buy an old Mustang... But I really don't particularly want one.)

Interesting...

If I bought another car specifically for autocross/track use it would cost me significantly more. First, I would have to buy a second car. Then I would have to register and insure it. Then I would have to fix/buy whatever it needs to get it "track ready." After that, I'll have to maintain it in addition to maintaining my first vehicle.

:dunno:

If you do it, you should do it in a 5.0 Mustang though :flipoff:

[tgravo2]

I'd say Mustang :D

[Artslinger]

5.0 + heavy front/light rear end = push into the corner and loose exit.

This looks interesting...

[Mystikal]

Originally posted by Artslinger
This looks interesting...

:yikes:

[Artslinger]

http://cp.carlc.com/cars/tmcbride.html

[Mystikal]

:eek:

http://cp.carlc.com/cars/tregan7.jpg

[Artslinger]

This is some big time rubber! :drive:

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by Artslinger
This is some big time rubber! :drive:

"Ford and Hoosier. Two great tastes that taste great together."

:eek:

[nate]

Alex B needs to get one of those to cruse around Hamburg :drive:

[PhilH]

I think you might be using George W's fuzzy math to get figures like that.

What kind of stratospheric costs did you come up with for tracking a 325xiT that would equal the additional costs of depreciation, maintenance and insurance on an additional car.

Seriously, I'd like to know how an additional car costs the same as using the car you already have. Maybe I can use your numbers to convince my wife I need a track car... :p

(maybe I'm just filling in for TD, who doesn't seem to have been around much recently) :eeps:

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by PhilH
I think you might be using George W's fuzzy math to get figures like that.

What kind of stratospheric costs did you come up with for tracking a 325xiT that would equal the additional costs of depreciation, maintenance and insurance on an additional car.

Seriously, I'd like to know how an additional car costs the same as using the car you already have. Maybe I can use your numbers to convince my wife I need a track car... :p

(maybe I'm just filling in for TD, who doesn't seem to have been around much recently) :eeps:

originally posted by clyde@work
If I bought another car specifically for autocross/track use it would cost me significantly more. First, I would have to buy a second car. Then I would have to register and insure it. Then I would have to fix/buy whatever it needs to get it "track ready." After that, I'll have to maintain it in addition to maintaining my first vehicle

Still waiting for a response too. :tsk:

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

My stratospheric costs include all the things I'm thinking about doing to the car, mileage, and intangibles like not having to worry about wrecking my daily driver. Not spending a 2-3K on the barge is counted in this equation.

Plus, I'm looking for something really cheap. I'm NOT looking for a car that's in wonderful cosmetic condition.

The final reason is that I'd like to enjoy the barge more for what it is: A nice cruiser that handles well. I won't try to make it do things it doen't want to. :p

[PhilH]

If you really want a track car and can afford it, buy it. :thumbup:

However, you gotta know it's more expensive to have two cars...

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
My stratospheric costs include all the things I'm thinking about doing to the car, mileage, and intangibles like not having to worry about wrecking my daily driver. Not spending a 2-3K on the barge is counted in this equation.

Plus, I'm looking for something really cheap. I'm NOT looking for a car that's in wonderful cosmetic condition.

I still don't see how the costs work out the same:

"Then I've been looking at how much it would cost to pick up an old E30/early E36 and use it as a beater track/autox car. The costs are beginning to look pretty similar."

The final reason is that I'd like to enjoy the barge more for what it is: A nice cruiser that handles well. I won't try to make it do things it doen't want to. :p

You mean things like my monster wagon does? :fingers:

[TD]

Guys-

Nick has been b@tching about his wagon for a LONG TIME now. If it takes some financial fiction to convince him to get something that will make him happy, why pee on his Wheaties?

EDIT- This post was written prior to Nick's most recent reply.

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by TD
Guys-

Nick has been :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:ing about his wagon for a LONG TIME now. If it takes some financial fiction to convince him to get something that will make him happy, why pee on his Wheaties?

For starters, it won't make him happy...

[TD]

Originally posted by Clyde@work
For starters, it won't make him happy...

Probably true. And you have to go and prove that one CAN be fast at autox in a monster truck.

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by TD
Probably true. And you have to go and prove that one CAN be fast at autox in a monster truck.

Nick is right, though, it doesn't really want to do it. I don't really doubt that he would find it more enjoyable to autocross an E30 or E36 than his wagon, but I do question his suggestion that the cost would be "similar" to continuing with his wagon.

[nate]

Just go out and get a 2002 to mod to hell and thrash around...

add cage, trailer, trailer hitch for E46....

[bren]

Originally posted by nate328Ci
Just go out and get a 2002 to mod to hell and thrash around...

I know where you can get a nice 2002tii (converted to dual Webbers) It has just a little rust on the rear shock towers, but otherwise is mechanically and cosmetically very sound. :angel:

[ride365]

the issue shouldn't be "will it cost the same to get a dedicated track car?"

it should be "is it financially feasible to get a dedicated track car?"

unless you drive gingerly at the track, i don't see how you guys feel comfortable risking your main/daily drivers. someone i know recently totaled his daily driver at the track.

EDIT: plus if you track regularly, a roll cage would be preferable.

[FSelekler]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

See, Nick; you are at the point of asking this question as I was asking it about a month or two ago.

If you listen to this crowd, which all make sense, you'll never get a dedicated track car. I still don't have it.

Even just for auto-x, especially after this past weekend, I do not like my daily pushed that hard with risks (at one point I was going to hit the curb very hard on my 3rd run).

I am not Jetfire, I cannot deal with engine problems. I want a situation in which I can be comfortable with my daily commute, and not care if I total the car at the track. The best answer I can come up with at this time is keep the 330ci, and get a 350Z (or the upcomming Supra) and modify as necessary that is going to maximize BSP rules. I am still waiting tho.... lol.

In short my answer to you: get a track car :thumbup: It is not about making sense, its about enjoying finer things in life :)

[rwg]

I once could have said "How crazy am I? I am thinking about spending money on a car that is older than the one I have, will cost more to operate, and has more mileage."

The rational thinkers would have told me not to do it (and some of those cross over when it's not their particular issue). It's not a financially sound decision.

And they would have been wrong. I love this car every time I get into it. It's only money. If you have it and want the car more than other things you could do with the money, spend it. Easy to say, but it's still the right thing to do.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Originally posted by FSelekler
Even just for auto-x, especially after this past weekend, I do not like my daily pushed that hard with risks (at one point I was going to hit the curb very hard on my 3rd run).


Speaking of which, I STRONGLY recommend a different entrance to that curb gap... I saw SO many cars that came close to losing control just before it.

Yell at Kevin for me. :D ;)


Still struggling with this one, though. :p We'll see if I find a car that works out...

[PhilH]

Originally posted by ride365
unless you drive gingerly at the track, i don't see how you guys feel comfortable risking your main/daily drivers. someone i know recently totaled his daily driver at the track.
I don't drive gingerly, but I don't slide it around at 80 mph like a madman. Judging by the wording in my auto insurance policy, I believe I'm covered at driver's schools, and except for the roll cage comment, it looks like you're just talking about money. I'm not going to go broke even in the unlikely event I total it and they don't cover me.

Frankly, I don't see how you feel comfortable riding a motorcycle. Have you had an accident where you got hurt yet? Riding around at 70mph with moronic drivers sipping coffee in traffic with just a leather jacket to protect me is borderline suicidal in my book.

[JST]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Speaking of which, I STRONGLY recommend a different entrance to that curb gap... I saw SO many cars that came close to losing control just before it.

Yell at Kevin for me. :D ;)


Still struggling with this one, though. :p We'll see if I find a car that works out...

Which curb gap? I thought that was handled pretty well on the last course. You had to slow to a crawl to get through the box in front of the first gap, and the slalom limited your ability to accelerate coming up on the second one.

I wasn't worried about hitting those, though on my first run there were a couple of times when I was more aware of other cars on the track than I ever have been before at an autox. I don't think that the gaps in letting cars go were as large as they probably should have been.

[bren]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Speaking of which, I STRONGLY recommend a different entrance to that curb gap... I saw SO many cars that came close to losing control just before it.

I am very suprised that nobody hit those curbs...I was very conscious of them when I went through, probably overly so given my times :eek:

And FWIW, I have been debating this same issue...I'm leaning towards an e30 as a toy/project car.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Originally posted by JST
Which curb gap? I thought that was handled pretty well on the last course. You had to slow to a crawl to get through the box in front of the first gap, and the slalom limited your ability to accelerate coming up on the second one.

I wasn't worried about hitting those, though on my first run there were a couple of times when I was more aware of other cars on the track than I ever have been before at an autox. I don't think that the gaps in letting cars go were as large as they probably should have been.

Many 540s and M3s would get on the power just as they started to straighten out and would snap the tail around. I was working right next to it, and it scared the crap out of me.

[Jetfire]

Originally posted by FSelekler

I am not Jetfire, I cannot deal with engine problems. I want a situation in which I can be comfortable with my daily commute, and not care if I total the car at the track. The best answer I can come up with at this time is keep the 330ci, and get a 350Z (or the upcomming Supra) and modify as necessary that is going to maximize BSP rules. I am still waiting tho.... lol.


:violent:

To be fair, I do have some grease monkey leanings in my blood. As much as I beotch about it, I'm not really upset about having to tear into my engine...I just would rather have paid much less for my car. I might push back at the PO on this, just a little bit.

Anyway, Nick, you will NOT SAVE MONEY by buying a fun car on top of your wagon. Unless you're both very patient for a good deal and very lucky with the related costs (initial upkeep, then maintenance/repairs), you will never actually spend less this way.

It is possible, however, to spend less than you do on the wagon by ditching it and buying two vehicles. You don't have to go out and buy a Jeep like I did, but I bet you could find a nice E36 and a running-but-ugly E30 for much less than the cost of your wagon. Heck, you might be able to find an older wagon and an E30. Possibly even an early model E46 sedan and an E30.

However you go in that direction, though, you would have to give up the wagon in order to actually spend less money. Even counting the intangibles, in my opinion.

[JST]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Many 540s and M3s would get on the power just as they started to straighten out and would snap the tail around. I was working right next to it, and it scared the crap out of me.

Huh. They should have left their DSC on. :D

[ride365]

Originally posted by PhilH
I don't drive gingerly, but I don't slide it around at 80 mph like a madman. Judging by the wording in my auto insurance policy, I believe I'm covered at driver's schools, and except for the roll cage comment, it looks like you're just talking about money. I'm not going to go broke even in the unlikely event I total it and they don't cover me.

well yes, much of my concerns involve money. but at the same time, why compromise track fun with car/components that need to be liveable on the street? some people use stock tires, but many use track-specific wheel/tires-- same principle. why run around the track in a wagon that is inherently less-than-ideally suited for tracking when he can have a nice, light, oversteering, flickable tool? one that he doesn't have to think about insurance if he runs a wheel off.

Frankly, I don't see how you feel comfortable riding a motorcycle. Have you had an accident where you got hurt yet? Riding around at 70mph with moronic drivers sipping coffee in traffic with just a leather jacket to protect me is borderline suicidal in my book.

others much closer and personal to me voice those same concerns, but those are apples to oranges. we're talking about the choice between track tools. if he has a choice and the means to run a separate car, i say go for it. motorcycling is a much more personal decision, a way of life, and something that is much more than a choice-- in a way, i have to ride, but that's a different discussion. he doesn't have to keep tracking a wagon.

and to respond to your concerns, yes i have had accidents. but with a full-body suit for abrasion, joint and bone armor for impact, spine-armor, fortifide gloves and boots plus helmet and almost 20 years experience, i have more than just a leather jacket.

[PhilH]

I'd like to have a track car just for driver's schools and autocrossing. I love the fact that I can buy a new BMW and use it to haul my family 350 days a year and still have a blast with it on the track the other 15.

[nate]

WTF?

You have curbs near turns on the course? That is :nono::nono::nono::nono:ing insane. With the maps you guys post, and proximity to curbs, I don't think that I would have fun at NCC auto-x events :rolleyes:

[JST]

Originally posted by nate328Ci
WTF?

You have curbs near turns on the course? That is :nono::nono::nono::nono:ing insane. With the maps you guys post, and proximity to curbs, I don't think that I would have fun at NCC auto-x events :rolleyes:

Not just near turns. The course runs *through* the curbs.

But, with respect to parking lots, there aren't a lot of choices out here. Beggars can't be choosers.

[bren]

Originally posted by JST
I wasn't worried about hitting those, though on my first run there were a couple of times when I was more aware of other cars on the track than I ever have been before at an autox. I don't think that the gaps in letting cars go were as large as they probably should have been.
For the second heat I somehow ended up with the task of calling for the next car to be sent and I was purposely waiting longer than they wanted me to b/c I wasn't comfortable with how close people were coming to each other. They kept hollering at me over the radio to call it sooner :tsk:

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Originally posted by JST
Not just near turns. The course runs *through* the curbs.

But, with respect to parking lots, there aren't a lot of choices out here. Beggars can't be choosers.

Hmm. I can think of three lots around here, now that Six Flags is out...

Lose the Baysox lot and it would be down to two... If the slot-nazi gets his way, there will only be one. :eek:

[nate]

Originally posted by JST
Not just near turns. The course runs *through* the curbs.

But, with respect to parking lots, there aren't a lot of choices out here. Beggars can't be choosers.

Damn! THROUGH the curbs! That is insane....

I dunno, there are no huge lots around?

The SCCA and PCA use this lot here, http://www.houscca.com/solo2/images/air.jpg

There are a some poles, but it can be designed around fairly well. Night events there are fun :D

The BMWCCA uses a Houston police course, very grippy surface. http://www.houscca.com/solo2/courses/hpa.pdf

****, I don't think I could run through curbs. That is too risky.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Originally posted by nate328Ci
Damn! THROUGH the curbs! That is insane....

I dunno, there are no huge lots around?

The SCCA and PCA use this lot here, http://www.houscca.com/solo2/images/air.jpg

There are a some poles, but it can be designed around fairly well.

The BMWCCA uses a Houston police course, very grippy surface. http://www.houscca.com/solo2/courses/hpa.pdf

****, I don't think I could run through curbs. That is too risky.

Not only that, but going into the first one, they tried to kill your speed by throwing your through a slalom with a tight S curve at the end... All the big engined cars were getting on the power there... :eek:

[nate]

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Not only that, but going into the first one, they tried to kill your speed by throwing your through a slalom with a tight S curve at the end... All the big engined cars were getting on the power there... :eek: :thumbdwn:

If I were you, I would quit auto-x and focus on the track :D

I'm going to the big track this weekend. Too bad there is an SCCA event too, I really like the SCCA courses. http://www.houscca.com/solo2/course_maps.aspx

[JST]

Originally posted by nate328Ci
Damn! THROUGH the curbs! That is insane....

I dunno, there are no huge lots around?

The SCCA and PCA use this lot here, http://www.houscca.com/solo2/images/air.jpg

There are a some poles, but it can be designed around fairly well. Night events there are fun :D

The BMWCCA uses a Houston police course, very grippy surface. http://www.houscca.com/solo2/courses/hpa.pdf

****, I don't think I could run through curbs. That is too risky.

Jeez, in Texas even the parking lots are huge.

Ironically, we have one of the largest parking lots in the world in No. VA, but because of rain gutters the Pentagon lot would be unusable for autocross, even if we could get it post 9/11.

We used to use the NSA lot, but that fell by the wayside some time ago.

FedEx is good, but too expensive and the SCCA tries to force too many cars through there. Other possibilities are all out for various reasons.

[nate]

Originally posted by JST
Jeez, in Texas even the parking lots are huge.

Ever been to the former Astrodome?

The parking was incredible. Enough for 63,000 of your closest friends. http://www.hgac.cog.tx.us/demographics/images/astro2.jpg

That was before the new statium was built, now they have some of it left. It would be great for auto-x. Few poles, and MUCH closer to my house :D Unfortunately, many other event are held there. Including sunday foozeball...

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by bren
For the second heat I somehow ended up with the task of calling for the next car to be sent and I was purposely waiting longer than they wanted me to b/c I wasn't comfortable with how close people were coming to each other. They kept hollering at me over the radio to call it sooner :tsk:

Bren, the problem was with the third skidpad near the end. By sending the second car "late" the first car would be in the third skidpad as the second car was passing by that area. More than one "second" car came to a stop when they saw the "first" cars coming into the skidpads. Sending the cars out with less of a time gap generally kept them better separated.

[bren]

Originally posted by Clyde@work
Bren, the problem was with the third skidpad near the end.
Yeah, I noticed that in the first heat and I was trying to be conscious of it during the second....maybe b/c of my vantage point (down and to the side) it looked ok :dunno:

The problem I noticed with sending them too early was people were barreling down the "back straight" while the guy in front of them was sliding through the second skid pad. If the first car was slow, the second car seemed to get there too quickly.

It got a little tricky a couple of times watching the two skidpads by myself (one of which many people went OC on) and calling for the next car. Plus not being able to see the start due to the elevation difference didn't help.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, I figured out about 2/3 of the way through the heat that the microphone is on the left side of the talk-about and I (being left handed) was blocking it with my thumb which I'm sure made me difficult to hear :doh:

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by bren
It got a little tricky a couple of times watching the two skidpads by myself


That's another problem with the split heat format NCC (and some of the council events) run...not enough course workers. One person down there was definately not enough.

[AF]

Hey Nick, last summer I bought a 98 Eclipse turbo convertible as a 3rd car to play around with and while it was fun in the beginning, it became a pain in the a** to have and with no warranty I was nervous something expensive would go wrong with it.

It's just another stress to have around . . . I would suggest either trade in your E46 for a RWD one since I know you would love to have one or keep the wagon . . .

[bavarian19]

FORD:eek: :eeps:

Mustang:tsk: :nono:

i was hopeing for something better than this for advice on a track car....:slap: :stickpoke

[Jetfire]

Originally posted by ajt819
FORD:eek: :eeps:

Mustang:tsk: :nono:

i was hopeing for something better than this for advice on a track car....:slap: :stickpoke

1) cheap
2) inexpensive to maintain and repair
3) really, really, ridiculously huge aftermarket
4) lots of fun to drive (if not somewhat brutish)

Sounds like a winning track car to me :dunno:

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by ajt819
FORD:eek: :eeps:

Mustang:tsk: :nono:

i was hopeing for something better than this for advice on a track car....:slap: :stickpoke

Cheap, reliable (with a damn near bulletproof engine in the 302), lots of low cost goodies available, a mountain of information about all kinds of modifications available, competitive and a hell of a lot of fun to drive.

[TD]

Objectively, I know you guys are right about the Mustang. But I still cringe at the idea. I have trouble separating the Mustang from the mulletheads that usually drive them.

[Jetfire]

Originally posted by TD
Objectively, I know you guys are right about the Mustang. But I still cringe at the idea. I have trouble separating the Mustang from the mulletheads that usually drive them.

Or Trans Ams for that matter. :eeps:

I actually almost bought a new 2000 Camaro SS. Only thing that stopped me back then was the insurance.

[Mr. The Edge]

Originally posted by JST
Jeez, in Texas even the parking lots are huge.



why, you could fit almost 20 Suburbans in there!

[JST]

Originally posted by ajt819
FORD:eek: :eeps:

Mustang:tsk: :nono:

i was hopeing for something better than this for advice on a track car....:slap: :stickpoke

I'm going to echo Clyde and Jetfire. A Fox body Mustang LX 5.0 (especially in coupe form, rather than hatchback) is a nearly perfect project car. While the chassis dates back to the old Fairmont, the mod potential for this car is nearly unlimited. Want to add four wheel disc brakes? Yes. Want an independent suspension? OK. Want a stroker engine? Sure. Supercharger? There are probably at least a dozen, from Vortec types to positive displacement units. Six speed conversion? Uh huh. Swap in a 351 or even a 429? Also possible. Many of these mods can be accomplished using OEM parts, and the tiny, tiny size of the bills for parts is literally laughable next to what it would take to build up a BMW racer for equivalent performance.

The mind boggles at the Mustang you could build up for $15K.

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by TD
I have trouble separating the Mustang from the mulletheads that usually drive them.

Considering our previous vehicular ownership, are you calling JST and I mulletheads? :confused: :stickpoke :D

Besides, we're talking about a track car, not street. OTOH, to bring it back close to on topic...I still think Nick would do himself a lot of good to drive a 5.0 on the street for a year or two.

edit- I forgot...One of the observations I made (and JST refined) when I was in JST's new car was that the E46 M3 is a Mustang GT taken to the next level. :yikes: :D

[Jetfire]

Originally posted by JST
Many of these mods can be accomplished using OEM parts, and the tiny, tiny size of the bills for parts is literally laughable next to what it would take to build up a BMW racer for equivalent performance.

The mind boggles at the Mustang you could build up for $15K.

Exactly. If you just want a cheap, solid, very capable track car, it's hard to beat the Fox.

My reasons for going with an E30 M3 have very little to do with money. I'm driven more with the car's pedigree, history, and technology. Why else would anyone pay five figures for a 16-year-old car that is expensive to fix? I just have the bug. It's the same kind of thing that makes enthusiasts buy BMWs at all, as opposed to buying something domestic that's faster for less money. Funny thing, those bugs.

[AF]

Originally posted by Clyde@work
Considering our previous vehicular ownership, are you calling JST and I mulletheads? :confused: :stickpoke :D


You know Tom had a Trans Am . . . don't you ? ?

(so did I When I was 20 yrs old :D )

[·clyde·]

Originally posted by AF330i
You know Tom had a Trans Am . . . don't you ? ?

Yes, but he regrets it.

(so did I When I was 20 yrs old :D )

Mullethead. :AF330i:

:angel:

[Artslinger]

Originally posted by TD
Objectively, I know you guys are right about the Mustang. But I still cringe at the idea. I have trouble separating the Mustang from the mulletheads that usually drive them.

Wow... TD I never pictured you as the snobby type.

[TD]

Originally posted by Artslinger
Wow... TD I never pictured you as the snobby type.

LOL.

I don't see it that way, but I can see your point.

I think it's because I grew up in the DC area where the correlation between Mustangs and mullets really is very high (although I saw a mullet driving an E46 328Ci yesterday - but it had PA tags).

[Artslinger]

Originally posted by TD
LOL.

(although I saw a mullet driving an E46 328Ci yesterday - but it had PA tags).


:rofl:

My last car was a Mustang... sh!t I hope I'm not a mullet head!

I did attend last years mullet festival though...

[TD]

Originally posted by AF330i
You know Tom had a Trans Am . . . don't you ? ?

(so did I When I was 20 yrs old :D )

This is true. But I had it about as long as I had my 330i.

Growing up, I was spoiled. My parents were going to buy me a car for a high school graduation present. This was 1989. Flash back to what was available then. I wanted a Mitsubishi Eclipse GS 5-spd. My parents were in their last year of their long-held Buy American mindset (they have since bought 3 German cars starting with an '89 525iA). They also stipulated that any car that THEY buy THEY have to be able to drive. So no manual trannies.

Somehow, out of all of that (I don't remember the exact thought process), I ended up with a black on black 1989 Pontiac Trans Am. 5.0 V8. 4-spd automatic. T-tops. NO SCREAMING CHICKEN DECAL, thankyouverymuch.

It was a POS. The rear footwells and the trunk well all filled with water in heavy rains due to leaking seals on the T-tops and rear hatch. And the suspension was truly crude and rude. Very jarring. What was especially disturbing was that my dad's 525iA (that I took out from time to time) was more nimble and handled much better (even running 205/15 all season rubber) than this supposed performance car and was almost as quick.

Oh, and my friends all called me Guido and the car, KITT. It was an ugly time.

I need to dig up some old pics of it the next time I'm up at my parents and scan them. Objectively, it was a good looking car. It was just a POS.

[Jetfire]

Originally posted by TD
Oh, and my friends all called me Guido and the car, KITT. It was an ugly time.


:bustingup

[AF]

Originally posted by TD
Oh, and my friends all called me Guido and the car, KITT. It was an ugly time.

I need to dig up some old pics of it the next time I'm up at my parents and scan them. Objectively, it was a good looking car. It was just a POS.

Mine was a 1988 with the 5.0 but had the TPI (Iroc engine) with those huge mesh factory type wheels, t-tops(no chicken either) and all the other crap they offered. It was a damn good looking car too . . .

It was also a MAJOR piece of crap . . . 3 tranimissions, 2 rear differentials, 3 sets of tires and 2 broken steering columns from attempted theif's

When it hit 2 years old & 60,000 miles, I sold it . . . I put that car through hell and back . . .

[rwg]

*stands up and clears throat*

Mine was a 1987, maroon with silver trim and gold wheels, 305 with a 4 speed auto and ttops. It was a partial graduation present from my parents for college (and they gave it to me a bit early). I got the automatic for similar reasons as TD (parents insisted, although their excuse was resale or something).

Unlike the rest of ex trans am owners here, I LOVED that car (hey, I was 20 or 21). It was bulletproof. It would put a cloud of tiresmoke up and like it! Sure the ride was rough. It's a sports car! I never had any significant trouble with it. The cheesy plastic interior was irritating as was the ttop rattle, but they didn't leak. The rear end skipping around on rough curves was sometimes interesting . . .

I am afraid I have to admit when I sit in a similar car now, I can find every control first try with my eyes closed. I got rid of it in 1990 when I got a new job with a company car and couldn't justify the expense. It had something like 60k miles and one replaced fuel injector and one replaced belt in its history. And maybe a battery. And tires. Lots of tires.

And now a 330i has more hp and similar torque. And it handles.:dunno:

Edit - and no, there was no CHICKEN!