Legality of a safety recall?? Any way to press this issue?

[geebeemer]

So I just bought this used truck, an S10 with 100k miles ('97). Well, it starts raining so I put on the wipers - which worked fine when it wasn't raining.... Nothing, nothing at all. :confused: Had to park on the way home last week to let the rain stop before I could drive.....

I scan the net and find there's a massive recall on the wiper motor circuit board for this truck - but my vin # doesn't specifically show up in GMVIS. Though every make/model/year around mine (and all supporting documentation from GM) shows that mine is in the VIN group that should be receiving this repair...

NHTSA recall search: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm ID# 03V159 (as search phrase)

I've printed out everything the NHTSA has on the recall, bulletins, GM service operations notices... the works. But the local dealer says he won't touch it without it showing up on their GMVIS - despite it being a safety deal.

So what's the legality of this whole thing - should they not honor a recall of this nature? Anyone in the know? :dunno:

[geebeemer]

Chevrolet S10 Recalls
S10 VISIBILITY:WINDSHIELD WIPER/WASHER Recall ***8211; ID# 50508

Recall Date
APR 28, 2003
Model Affected
1997 CHEVROLET S10
Description
ON CERTAIN MINIVANS, PICKUP TRUCKS, AND SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES WITH CERTAIN MODEL-ENGINE COMBINATIONS, THE WINDSHIELD WIPER MOTOR MAY FAIL DUE TO CRACKED SOLDER JOINTS ON THE CONTROLLER CIRCUIT BOARD. THE WINDSHIELD WIPERS COULD WORK INTERMITTENTLY OR NOT AT ALL.
Consequence
IF THIS WERE TO OCCUR DURING BAD WEATHER, DRIVER VISIBILITY WOULD BE REDUCED, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
Remedy
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE WIPER MOTOR CIRCUIT BOARD AND COVER. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN ON JUNE 19, 2003. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT CHEVROLET AT 1-800-222-1020, GMC AT 1-800-462-8782, OR OLDSMOBILE AT 1-800-442-6537.
Potential Units Affected
1755876
Notes
GENERAL MOTORS CORP. 03023

Read the full details of this S10 recall issued by the NHTSA on April 28, 2003. Below you'll find the full details including the defective component, units affected, NHTSA ID, and manufacturer solution.
fyi...

[Excitmnt94]

call Chevy directly at the number you have listed above [1-800-222-1020] and explain the situation. that may help you out...

[geebeemer]

call Chevy directly at the number you have listed above [1-800-222-1020] and explain the situation. that may help you out...They're all about the run around. Jeez.

Just reading through all the documentation - this hits virtually all these trucks - be they GMC, Chevy, Isuzu - all of 'em. :rolleyes:

*Somehow* my particular VIN isn't in their system though. WTF??!! :mad:

[tturedraider]

Contact the local news media.

[Lanc3r]

Gee,

Do we know what the problem is for sure? Did you check the fuses? Did you check to see if the wiper arms are tight?

[Boile]

fyi...

what does a wiper motor circuit board and cover cost?

[geebeemer]

Contact the local news media.:rofl: One of the local consumer advocates and I have a mutual friend; I'd thought about getting in touch with her over it. But alas, this is a inconvenience, not something that has my vehicle parked. If it were more serious, I'd be all over her! ;)

(Figuratively, that is. :eeps:)Gee,

Do we know what the problem is for sure? Did you check the fuses? Did you check to see if the wiper arms are tight?Yep, fuses fine, arms tight. It works intermittently - it can actually swipe the windshield a couple times in a minute while the switch is "On".what does a wiper motor circuit board and cover cost?~$65 from the stealership (yes, they sell the recall kit :tsk:)

AdvanceAutoParts has it for ~$29 - which is the route I'm taking. I'll then send a Net30 invoice to Chevy's recall department..... along with a printout of my complaint to the NHTSA. :)

[Boile]

AdvanceAutoParts has it for ~$29 - which is the route I'm taking. I'll then send a Net30 invoice to Chevy's recall department..... along with a printout of my complaint to the NHTSA. :)

You trying to start legal action over $29! :confused::rofl:
Park your principles and order the parts. Driving safely is worth more than that. :slap:

[geebeemer]

You trying to start legal action over $29! :confused::rofl:
Park your principles and order the parts. Driving safely is worth more than that. :slap:Not legal action! Just what's right! :slap:

So, when you go into a restaurant and they charge you for steak, and hand you a hamburger, you'd just take the burger and pay for steak? I somehow doubt that Boile - you're too smart for that. ;)

[Boile]

Not legal action! Just what's right! :slap:

So, when you go into a restaurant and they charge you for steak, and hand you a hamburger, you'd just take the burger and pay for steak? I somehow doubt that Boile - you're too smart for that. ;)

Completely different scenarios.
You didn't buy a truck and got a Yugo.
You got a truck. An old one. Out of warranty. Parts break. You fix them. That's it. Especially at $29 it's not worth the trouble. ;)
Yeah, send the letter to Chevy. Lose that extra $0.50 on stamps and envolope too.

[geebeemer]

Completely different scenarios.
You didn't buy a truck and got a Yugo.
You got a truck. An old one. Out of warranty. Parts break. You fix them. That's it. Especially at $29 it's not worth the trouble. ;)By the time it's $150 at the stealership installed - for a known and recalled safety item, yes it's worth the trouble. :p

Despite my ingenuity and availability of the parts. :bigpimp:

[Boile]

By the time it's $150 at the stealership installed - for a known and recalled safety item, yes it's worth the trouble. :p

Despite my ingenuity and availability of the parts. :bigpimp:

You don't have a legal case.
The part is recalled, but not for your VIN.
You want to question them on why your VIN is not included? They don't get to discriminate on VINs randomly. Overseeing authorities (EPA?) who forced them to issue the recall to begin with (yes, manufacturers don't issue recalls spontaneously) reviewed it and accepted their claim that your VIN is not affected.
The fact that it failed on you is unfortunate, but no legal basis.
Capiche?
You want to take the EPA on? :dunno:

Disclaimer: I have no idea how it works exactly. What I said above is based on common sense. ;)
Go ahead, sue them if you feel lucky today, punk. :p

[Test_Engineer]

You don't have a legal case.
The part is recalled, but not for your VIN.
You want to question them on why your VIN is not included? They don't get to discriminate on VINs randomly. Overseeing authorities (EPA?) who forced them to issue the recall to begin with (yes, manufacturers don't issue recalls spontaneously) reviewed it and accepted their claim that your VIN is not affected.
The fact that it failed on you is unfortunate, but no legal basis.
Capiche?
You want to take the EPA on? :dunno:

Disclaimer: I have no idea how it works exactly. What I said above is based on common sense. ;)
Go ahead, sue them if you feel lucky today, punk. :p

Not the EPA. Safety recalls are handeled by NHTSA. NHTSA does the compliance test again, and then requests a list of all VIN's that have that part number. Even though the OP may be a very similar part, it most likely doesn't have the same exact P/N as listed in the original recall, therefor GM is not going to spend any more money than it has to. Happens every day in this business.

[geebeemer]

You don't have a legal case.
The part is recalled, but not for your VIN.
You want to question them on why your VIN is not included? They don't get to discriminate on VINs randomly. Overseeing authorities (EPA?) who forced them to issue the recall to begin with (yes, manufacturers don't issue recalls spontaneously) reviewed it and accepted their claim that your VIN is not affected.
The fact that it failed on you is unfortunate, but no legal basis.
Capiche?
You want to take the EPA on? :dunno:

Disclaimer: I have no idea how it works exactly. What I said above is based on common sense. ;)
Go ahead, sue them if you feel lucky today, punk. :p:dunno:

All that is understood - basically what I would be seeking is inclusion of this VIN along with all others. Keep in mind, this was the unit used on all these: CHEVROLET / ASTRO 1995-1997
CHEVROLET / BLAZER 1995-1996
CHEVROLET / C/K PICKUPS 1994-1997
CHEVROLET / CREW CAB 1995-1996
CHEVROLET / L VAN 1995-1997
CHEVROLET / M VAN 1995-1997
CHEVROLET / S PICKUP 1996-1997
CHEVROLET / S UTILITY 1996
CHEVROLET / SUBURBAN 1994-1997
CHEVROLET / T PICKUP 1996
CHEVROLET / T UTILITY 1996
CHEVROLET / TAHOE 1994-1996
GMC / C/K PICKUP 1997
GMC / C/K PICKUPS 1994
GMC / C/K SERIES 1995-1996
GMC / CREW CAB 1995-1996
GMC / JIMMY 1995-1996
GMC / L VAN 1995-1997
GMC / M VAN 1995-1997
GMC / S PICKUP 1996-1997
GMC / S UTILITY 1996
GMC / SAFARI 1995-1997
GMC / SIERRA 1995-1996
GMC / SUBURBAN 1994-1997
GMC / T PICKUP 1996
GMC / T UTILITY 1996
GMC / YUKON 1994-1996
ISUZU / HOMBRE 1996-1997
OLDSMOBILE / BRAVADA 1996An appeals process, that's all I want - just some way to appeal what's in their database. 'Cuz let's face it, just about everything they made in those years had the same freakin' issue, as above.

I'd swallow it whole, no big deal - IF there wasn't a list like there is above.... ;) (3.4 million vehicles, by the way.)

Keep in mind, all the supporting documentation includes my rig - based on every bit of information they used to determine inclusion (date of mfg, engine/chassis combination, everything). It just doesn't show up in their VIN database. I want to know why. :bigpimp:

[Boile]

Not the EPA. Safety recalls are handeled by NHTSA. NHTSA does the compliance test again, and then requests a list of all VIN's that have that part number. Even though the OP may be a very similar part, it most likely doesn't have the same exact P/N as listed in the original recall, therefor GM is not going to spend any more money than it has to. Happens every day in this business.

Yeah, but can a manufacture just make up any range of VINs?
Doesn't the NHTSA verify that the VINs given to them are comprehensive enough?
And, if I were a manufacturer, I'd instruct my suppliers to change their part numbers periodically, for trivial reasons, for example, new model year all new part numbers.
That'd limit my liability to 1 year at most.
Doesn't the NHTSA also verify that? I guess it's wishful thinking on my part. An outside agency would be severely inadequate to verify such things. :eek:

[geebeemer]

Thought of one thing to do....

Effect the repair by buying the parts. Determine if what failed is what was in the recall information. If so, return the defective part along with a request for reimbursement form (they supply those). Receive reimbursement via the old fashioned way. Viola! :D

[geebeemer]

Yeah, but can a manufacture just make up any range of VINs?
Doesn't the NHTSA verify that the VINs given to them are comprehensive enough?
And, if I were a manufacturer, I'd instruct my suppliers to change their part numbers periodically, for trivial reasons, for example, new model year all new part numbers.
That'd limit my liability to 1 year at most.
Doesn't the NHTSA also verify that? I guess it's wishful thinking on my part. An outside agency would be severely inadequate to verify such things. :eek:They switched manufacturers, in this case, midstream - with the same results. They even changed from standard circuit board manufacturing (soldered on one side) to full through-hole soldering (solder and conducting material on both sides) - with the same result. It's more about location of the board - it catches heat straight from the engine and breaks down. The cars not covered by the existing recall have that board located in a different airspace, thus, no problem - despite having the same circuit board. (Read about 20 pages of history on this...)

Turns out there is one part of the documentation that would indicate that two trucks built one after another with identical parts might not both be subject to the recall - destination. Simply based on where the vehicle's initial destination was. Based on ambient temperature of the area.

So, what if the owner moves? or the truck is sold to the recall-affected area? Then it would seem one could appeal based on the change in circumstances. :dunno:

*Think appeal.... not court action, just an appeal... :p

[Boile]

Thought of one thing to do....

Effect the repair by buying the parts. Determine if what failed is what was in the recall information. If so, return the defective part along with a request for reimbursement form (they supply those). Receive reimbursement via the old fashioned way. Viola! :D

:thumbup:
Except, you don't return.
You file class action suit and get rich. ;)

If they left out a VIN range that should have been recalled, they took the risk and you have a case.

[geebeemer]

:thumbup:
Except, you don't return.
You file class action suit and get rich. ;)

If they left out a VIN range that should have been recalled, they took the risk and you have a case.I should be so lucky!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'd be buyin' drinks at the next b'fest! :thumbup:

[Bmwcat]

One solution: Heat up soldering iron. Resolder the suspect circuit board. Problem solved. :bigpimp:

[Boile]

One solution: Heat up soldering iron. Resolder the suspect circuit board. Problem solved. :bigpimp:

Modern circuit boards can't be fixed by hand. They usually have multiple non-accessible inner layers sandwiching the tracks. :slap:

I don't think $29 would break Gee's bank.
He's doing this for the principle. He wants his American day in court. :rofl:

[geebeemer]

Modern circuit boards can't be fixed by hand. They usually have multiple non-accessible inner layers sandwiching the tracks. :slap:

I don't think $29 would break Gee's bank.
He's doing this for the principle. He wants his American day in court. :rofl:These last two months of constant car problems (bimmer is still parked :tsk:) has me thin-skinned on rightful repairs. Bought this truck to end the car problems, and expect it to be running per the manufacturer's specs - and any that I can skew to my favor, at this point. :bigpimp:

:p

Definitely taking the part out and examining before I buy another - if it is an obvious solder joint, then fekit, fixit. The weld is supposed to be on a connector - which should be the simplest of connections. ;)

[GBauer]

You trying to start legal action over $29! :confused::rofl:
Park your principles and order the parts. Driving safely is worth more than that. :slap:

$29 is half the value of the truck! :p

[Bmwcat]

Modern circuit boards can't be fixed by hand. They usually have multiple non-accessible inner layers sandwiching the tracks. :slap:

I don't think $29 would break Gee's bank.
He's doing this for the principle. He wants his American day in court. :rofl:

A less-complex board may not have inner traces. If its a connector then those pins can be re-heated. :throw:

[Boile]

A less-complex board may not have inner traces. If its a connector then those pins can be re-heated. :throw:

A big IF.
And a soldering iron will cost him more than $29. :rofl:

[Test_Engineer]

Yeah, but can a manufacture just make up any range of VINs?
Doesn't the NHTSA verify that the VINs given to them are comprehensive enough?
And, if I were a manufacturer, I'd instruct my suppliers to change their part numbers periodically, for trivial reasons, for example, new model year all new part numbers.
That'd limit my liability to 1 year at most.
Doesn't the NHTSA also verify that? I guess it's wishful thinking on my part. An outside agency would be severely inadequate to verify such things. :eek:

A lot of times, the manf. knows there is a problem and "fixes" it with a running change. So even though the recall shows model years, the actual VIN's will be based on build dates. So there is a strong possibility, this truck is a later build date in the model year, and is not covered under the specific recall order by NHTSA. :dunno:

[Boile]

A lot of times, the manf. knows there is a problem and "fixes" it with a running change. So even though the recall shows model years, the actual VIN's will be based on build dates. So there is a strong possibility, this truck is a later build date in the model year, and is not covered under the specific recall order by NHTSA. :dunno:

If so, their running fix didn't fix the issue. :rofl:

[Test_Engineer]

If so, their running fix didn't fix the issue. :rofl:

It's GM, you can't expect much. :dunno: