Drove a Mazdaspeed 3 this weekend

[TLudwig]

Our house is still without power courtesy of Ike, so the wife and I escaped up to my brother's place in Dallas this weekend. He bought an '08 Mazdaspeed 3 recently and a regular 3 for his wife. I got some good seat time in the MS3 and walked away very, very impressed with both the performance and the value.

I think it's a good looking little hatch, especially in the shark gray color that my brother got. Even the rear roof spoiler doesn't look too over the top and boy racer. Some may not like the hatch-style, but it's extremely practical for those who don't want an SUV or cross-over.

Inside, the seats had a very nice, grippy texture, were bolstered well, and were fairly comfortable overall. The dash and console may have been a little over the top with all the red lights, but it didn't feel cheap or look like your typical bland, soul-less econobox interior. The Bose sound system didn't blow me away, but I could live with it.

Turning the car on, the exhaust note was a bit off-putting. It didn't have a fart-can sound, but it sounded more like a ricer aftermarket add-on than a well-developed OEM exhaust. I also noted a bit of a drone at certain speeds that was somewhat distracting while cruising around town.

As soon as I started driving the car, I couldn't wipe the grin off my face. The engine packs a serious punch, especially given the weight of the car (3,200 lbs or so). The LSD and power management system really limited any torque steer except in the most extreme situations. You could definitely feel when the turbo kicked in, but it was surprisingly smooth and subtle -- it did not have an on/off feel, even under full throttle. Even so, the MS3 felt clearly faster than its competition (MCS, Civic Si, GTI). Putting the pedal to the metal was a very rewarding experience. My only dislike, and it's not surprising given the forced induction, was that the torque dropped off very quickly after 5500 rpm. I found myself always shifting LONG before the 6700 rpm redline.

The steering was very nicely weighted and direct. Despite some noticeable understeer, the MS3 was very point-and-shoot and held the chosen line very well. Bumps and pavement imperfections unsettled it a little more than I would have liked in some turns, but overall, the MS3 was very confidence-inspiring around corners.

The tranny was also impressive. Not quite as good as the one in the RX-8 I drove awhile back, but still very precise, relatively short throws, crisp engagement, and the clutch action was smooth and consistent. The only thing I didn't like was the 1-2 shift. The gate into 2nd wasn't straight back from 1st. I had to shift back and to the right a little. Not a huge deal though.

The ride was a little rough, but certainly not bad enough to rule out daily driver status. I was actually surprised at how composed the MS3 was given how little body-lean it had during aggressive maneuvering.

Overall, if I was looking for a fun, sporty car under $30 grand, this would be my choice hands down. Much quicker than both the GTI and R32, which both felt downright sluggish. Also, much cheaper. Almost as tossable as the MCS, but far grippier, more composed, and quicker. Much less understeer and much more involving than the Civic Si, which I found to be buzzy and somewhat cheap feeling. Mazda really struck a great balance of power, handling, and comfort for the price with the MS3.

[big-tex]

Nice write up. I was talking to a bmw "tech" (works at bmw dealership) I go to school with and he owns a MS3 and drives bimmers all day, and he said the mazda is still a fun little ride.

With cars like that selling in America you would think a 128i hatch would do well here... makes me wonder.

[biglovemp]

I owned a mazda 6 and loved it. I was actually looking forward to the mazdaspeed 6 which for some reason didnt make it past one year of production...:dunno:

The 3 is nice but not really my style.

[Lanc3r]

If they werent so terribly inefficent (MPG) Id consider one. The Cooper rules the Mazda in that respect.

[ScubaCinci]

I drove one about a month ago as well. I enjoyed driving it. I used to have a GTI and it's quickness rivaled or exceed the GTI. But, like the GTI, before the turbo kicks in @ 2500-3000, there is very little power. Not a big deal if you know how to drive it but it can be annoying. My only complaint is excessive wheel spin if you really get on it, especially if you are accellerating hard out of a curve. The front end is always on the verge of breaking loose. It could use some wider and/or stickier tires maybe to help.

[PhillyNate]

I bought a 2005 Mazda 6s manual hastily 1 year before the Mazdaspeed 6 came out. Same wonderful engine ( Wards ten best) as the MS3 but with MORE power. I had no regrets until I drove 2006MS6 while I was in for an oil change and my god that fargin' thing was stupid dangerously fast. If I had waited the year and bought that car, there would be no BMW. The MS6 was not nearly as refined my current BMW but savagely fast. That car made me decide when it was time to buy the BMW that I would not even test drive the 335i coupe which had even better power numbers. I did not want to be intoxicated by power. Though it had only 2 years of production (2006 AND 2007) I believe it will go down as one of the most under-appreciated cars in history. Let us not forget it was all-wheel drive too for only about $27,500. Well at least there is the MS3.

[ScubaCinci]

If the MS3 was all wheel drive, I'd be buying one right now.

[TLudwig]

I drove one about a month ago as well. I enjoyed driving it. I used to have a GTI and it's quickness rivaled or exceed the GTI. But, like the GTI, before the turbo kicks in @ 2500-3000, there is very little power. Not a big deal if you know how to drive it but it can be annoying. My only complaint is excessive wheel spin if you really get on it, especially if you are accellerating hard out of a curve. The front end is always on the verge of breaking loose. It could use some wider and/or stickier tires maybe to help.

The Potenza RE050 tires were definitely the weak spot in the handling department.

My biggest problem with F/I cars is not so much the relative lack of power below 2,500 rpm, but having the boost kick in all at once, especially in a turning situation. The MS3 had adequate (although not impressive) power down low, but more important to me, the boost came on much more gradually than in many F/I cars, which helped alleviate at least the feeling of turbo lag.

[TLudwig]

Nice write up. I was talking to a bmw "tech" (works at bmw dealership) I go to school with and he owns a MS3 and drives bimmers all day, and he said the mazda is still a fun little ride.

With cars like that selling in America you would think a 128i hatch would do well here... makes me wonder.

I wouldn't have even said this one year ago, but I agree 100%, especially since cars like the MCS and Civic Si are flying off dealer lots. Maybe BMW doesn't want to cannibalize Mini sales, but I would think that a hot 4-banger hatch would do well in the current market.

[Chris90]

I want to drive one, but can't stand dealing with salesmen anymore.

I wish Honda would sell the Civic R sedan here, love that car. Maybe it's a good thing, since I refuse to buy Japanese.

[Frank Rizzo]

.....

Overall, if I was looking for a fun, sporty car under $30 grand, this would be my choice hands down. Much quicker than both the GTI and R32, which both felt downright sluggish. Also, much cheaper. Almost as tossable as the MCS, but far grippier, more composed, and quicker. Much less understeer and much more involving than the Civic Si, which I found to be buzzy and somewhat cheap feeling. Mazda really struck a great balance of power, handling, and comfort for the price with the MS3.

FYI: My .:R32 was $28,788 - under the $30k price limit you imposed.

From the MK forums.
I could not say it any better and sums up exactly why I got an R32 for a DD.


The MS3 is a cool car and as mentioned it's pretty fast, 267hp and Turbo says so not to mention they make a bunch of go fast parts that will put it over the 300hp mark before you even leave the dealer and the dealer will install them for you (how nice huh), hell I bet they will even roll it into your financing for convenience. I believe it might be a touch lighter then the R32 as well. It's a little pocket rocket for sure. The car also handles quite well, many a sport car magazine have given even the base model Mazda's the thumbs up in the handling department. And for another thing the car is priced pretty well.

Some of the down things about the MS3, the interior is the typical Japanese plastic fantastic. IMHO the R32 interior is definitely superior in this comparison. As for seats I'm sure leather is an option but the ones I looked at didn't have leather. The seats were nice, not nearly as nice as the R32 seats but they were adequate. The stereo was ok and I think they offer a little sub option for the rear, again adequate. One of the things I noticed on the couple I drove was massive torque steer, it does have gobs of torque and being FWD that really goes against it. I find it a bit squirly and wanting to in some cases rip the wheel out of my hand, I can't imagine dealing with that on a road course, even in a drag race its still annoying. Over all it's a good car that does handle pretty well and goes like stink in a straight line. For the most part (because of the price point) it shares a lot with the base model Mazda 3.

As for the R32 (obviously the route I went). Probably the most important thing for me... The car just has a soul. I don't know how to explain it, it's just the feeling you get one you drive it. The way it's connected to the road, the sound it makes, the feeling in the steering wheel it just gets you connected with the driving experience. My good friend said the same thing. He was trying to choose between a new 135i and the new G35 sport. Both were fast as hell but the Japanese car just lacked the soul of the German car. Even a lot of the car 'rags' say it's really hard to coax the Jap cars to have fun, they are actually quite civil to be honest. (although I would love to give the new Skyline a shot!!!). Some of the other things I liked were the DSG, fantastic tranny for an automatic and launch control is fun to play with especially (and another great point) with AWD. Of course the downside is that the AWD is a power sapping monster but man does it grip. Could the R32 have more power, sure I think most would welcome that, it's not going to win to many drag races but then again that's not what this car is about. This is a GT car (Gran Tourer) for sure. Hit the open road, head for the twisties you name it, the car is very well rounded. With a few mods you get a few gains but like the 350Z they are expensive and for the money the gains aren't earth shattering but they do help.

Another item to consider is exclusivity. There are only 5000 R32's available for 2008 and that's it. The last time it came to the US was 2004 and as I understand it there are only about 600 left. Every Tom, Dick, Harry, Larry, Moe and Curly is driving around in a Mazda 3 these days and it's really hard to tell the MS3 from the M3 without looking hard for the badge. Also there are rumors that this could be the last AWD VR6 on this platform (what I heard at least who knows). I hear Europe is gearing up for an R36 but who knows if that will make it to the US. And of course in today's economy you should take into consideration resale value. Right now the R32 is #1 in resale value holding 45% of it's original value after 5 years (wish I could say that about the wifey's 4 year old Saab).Oh, and man the MS3 dash is ugly. What's with the neon orange writing?

The problem with MS3 for me is like the SRT4. It's still a Neon and the Mazda is still a Mazda. You should go check out the Chevy Cobalt SS, it it pretty quick too :rofl:

[biglovemp]

I bought a 2005 Mazda 6s manual hastily 1 year before the Mazdaspeed 6 came out. Same wonderful engine ( Wards ten best) as the MS3 but with MORE power. I had no regrets until I drove 2006MS6 while I was in for an oil change and my god that fargin' thing was stupid dangerously fast. If I had waited the year and bought that car, there would be no BMW. The MS6 was not nearly as refined my current BMW but savagely fast. That car made me decide when it was time to buy the BMW that I would not even test drive the 335i coupe which had even better power numbers. I did not want to be intoxicated by power. Though it had only 2 years of production (2006 AND 2007) I believe it will go down as one of the most under-appreciated cars in history. Let us not forget it was all-wheel drive too for only about $27,500. Well at least there is the MS3.

I myself had a 04' mazda 6, 5speed and fully loaded. I loved that damn car and it got stolen. I was really looking forward to the MS6 at the time but decided to hold off.

I wonder why they stopped production? Did it really do that bad?

And everything you were getting for under 30 was awesome, at least IMO...

[TLudwig]

FYI: My .:R32 was $28,788 - under the $30k price limit you imposed.

From the MK forums.
I could not say it any better and sums up exactly why I got an R32 for a DD.

Oh, and man the MS3 dash is ugly. What's with the neon orange writing?


Rizzo, it sounds like you might have taken my post as a jab at the R32. It was not meant as such. I simply intended to compare the MS3 with the few cars I've driven in the same class.

I think you -- and the post you quoted -- pointed out a lot of the same weaknesses that I found in the MS3. The red-lit dash was a little over the top (although I didn't find the materials to be cheap feeling). The exhaust sound was very aftermarket boy racer and didn't sound nearly as good as the R32's, for example. I personally didn't notice much torque steer when accelerating from a straight line (certainly nothing threatening to jerk the wheel out of my hands), but I did get some when I downshifted in turns.

Not surprisingly, the R32 feels more solid, is much more compliant as a daily driver, but also better handling than the MS3 (both understeered more than I would like - the MS3 due to the FWD and the R32 due to too much weight up front with the heavy VR6). The two deal killers for me (were I in the market for such a car) would be that the R32 doesn't come with a true manual and it felt downright slow. I'm taking delivery of an E92 M3 in a couple weeks, so I definitely appreciate a flat torque curve and smooth, linear power delivery, but the R32 simply needs more power to compensate for the extra weight it's carrying around. Unfortunately, that extra power would be fairly expensive to come by.

The problem with MS3 for me is like the SRT4. It's still a Neon and the Mazda is still a Mazda. You should go check out the Chevy Cobalt SS, it it pretty quick too :rofl:

If I were to judge cars solely by their brand's reputation, I'd never buy a V-dub either -- they're known for building unreliable cars with almost comically bad dealer service. That said, the VR6 in the R32 appears virtually bullet-proof, so it just goes to show that you have to judge each car individually. I'm not about to go buy a Mazda, Dodge, Chevy or VW, but I think that each makes some intriguing and stereotype-defying models (like the MS3, Cobalt SS).

[Frank Rizzo]

Rizzo, it sounds like you might have taken my post as a jab at the R32. It was not meant as such. I simply intended to compare the MS3 with the few cars I've driven in the same class.

Not at all.
I just knew where to find a similar thread that I appreciated.

FWIW: The new M3 is one awesome car, but I dont know how it would work as a daily driver. I enjoy the R32 more than any other car I have owned including the E46 330Ci. That car was gutless slow (225HP) but the emperor had no clothes on this board. Some how the poor HP was OK because it was a BMW?
I could not take a MS3, Cobalt SS, or Suby/Mitsu as a daily driver because of the cheaper interior feel and the lack of soul, but I'm in the minority according to the sales charts. I just dumped an Acura because of the same reason...

[ScubaCinci]

I could not take a MS3, Cobalt SS, or Suby/Mitsu as a daily driver because of the cheaper interior feel and the lack of soul Same with my Lexus IS250. That's going bye bye...hello M Coupe :thumbup:

[TLudwig]

Not at all.
I just knew where to find a similar thread that I appreciated.

FWIW: The new M3 is one awesome car, but I dont know how it would work as a daily driver. I enjoy the R32 more than any other car I have owned including the E46 330Ci. That car was gutless slow (225HP) but the emperor had no clothes on this board. Some how the poor HP was OK because it was a BMW?
I could not take a MS3, Cobalt SS, or Suby/Mitsu as a daily driver because of the cheaper interior feel and the lack of soul, but I'm in the minority according to the sales charts. I just dumped an Acura because of the same reason...

You make a good analogy with the E46. I loved everything about my E46 ZHP, but wished it had more torque. That was one of the big reasons I sold it. To this day, I regret that decision. My neighbor currently has an R32, and he echoes your love for the car as a daily driver and a great all-around package. He has owned cars ranging from cheap domestics to Porsches and a Ferrari. The R32 is in his top 3 favorite cars that he's owned.

One of the main reasons I chose the M3 is that not only does the new E92 outperform the E46 M3, but it makes for a MUCH better daily driver. It feels much more comfortable, almost docile, driving around at low rpms, but when you want to rip it, the E92 GOES! And I can't believe how flat it corners while offering a much smoother ride than the E46.

[ScubaCinci]

If only the R32 came in a stick this year! :( How they didn't offer that is beyond me.

[PhillyNate]

I myself had a 04' mazda 6, 5speed and fully loaded. I loved that damn car and it got stolen. I was really looking forward to the MS6 at the time but decided to hold off.

I wonder why they stopped production? Did it really do that bad?

And everything you were getting for under 30 was awesome, at least IMO...

Apparently it was an expensive car to produce. The MS6 was completely built in Japan (unlike other 6's AFTER 2003) with a fairly sophisticated all-wheel drive system that incorporated the very good limited slip differential rear end from the RX-8. This combined with luke warm sales spelled death.